OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

Wolfgang wrote:

"Willi" wrote in message
...

I think that a politician today could start out as that kind of man, but
if he survived to be either the Republican or Democratic candidate for
president, he would, as Wayne would say, be changed.


Teddy's world, one suspects, was not all ars poetica and old lace.

Wolfgang
who sometimes wonders what color the world was before sepia.


I guess you have more respect for the present state of our two political
parties than I do. I can't imagine a man like that today even making it
to the House or the Senate without "changing." But if he did, do you
think that either the Democrats or the Republicans would support such a
man as their candidate for President?

The way I see our present system, is that candidates are chosen for the
lowest common denominator and we get mediocrity. (Which can have a few
pluses as well as minuses)

Willi

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"slenon" wrote in message
. com...
rw:
Our present administration
should take a page from Teddy's playbook, instead of blustering with
tough talk and overextending our military, our treasury, and our
credibility on reckless foreign adventures

Of course, there was that little shindig that came to be known as San
Juan
Hill, some construction project in what became Panama, and the round the
world trip of the Great White Fleet. But the more I learn about TR the
more
I'm convinced that we need another like him. Sooner, rather than later,
would be best.

Times have changed......somebody would shoot him

Wolfgang
hell, somebody DID shoot him.


When he was shot he put a bandaid on it and continued with his campaign.
Here's a good book to put on your library list.
"Theodore Roosevelt : A Strenuous Life
by Kathleen Dalton"

Teddy Roosevelt OT American Taliban in Congress and the WhiteHouse
 

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, rw wrote:

As for unilateralism, he was awarded the Nobel Prize for negotiating an
end to the Russo-Japanese War. He was, in fact, a master of
international multilateralism and compromise.

Roosevelt agreed to a secret treaty with Japan (Taft-Katsura agreement) in
1905 which effectively reneged upon the US treaty with Korea (Chemulpo
Treaty). Basically it said the US would steer clear of Japanese imperial
aspirations in Korea as long as American imperial designs upon the
Philippines and Hawaii remain uncontested by Japan. T. Roosevelt couldn't
have foreseen Pearl Harbor but he was foolish and inconsistent in publicly
demanding from the Japanese an 'Open Door' policy in China as part of the
resolution of the Russo-Japanese war while secretly selling out Korea.

Teddy Roosevelt was considered to have genius-like mental faculties and
unlike some other presidents we have had, he had been serious in his
academic studies. I wonder if TR had any knowledge of the historical
figures of Oda Nobugawa or Hideyoshi Toyotomi. These were two
pre-Tokugawa feudal lords who were pre-cursors to the shoguns of later
medieval Japan. They both had wanted Japan to conquer all of Asia.
Hideyoshi had engaged in two full-scale attempts but failed. This notion
of Japanese 'manifest destiny' was part of their national identity leading
up to the 20th century. Couple this cultural background with Japan's own
industrial revolution at a time when subtler forms of imperialism had
supplanted outright colonization as the fashionable choice of foreign
policy among modern (i.e. western) nations and you have a very dangerous
mixture. Roosevelt obviously was blind to this, though, without excusing
him one may understand that he was very much a product of his times.
Roosevelt was very pleased that Japan had defeated the Russians since the
US was wary of Russian influence in Manchuria.

In more recent history we remember Reagan's envoy Donald Rumsfeld
supporting Saddam Hussein against Iran in the early 1980's but leading the
campaign as US Sec. of Defense against the Butcher of Baghdad in 2003.
And no doubt political leaders will repeatedly embrace the 'enemy of my
enemy is my friend' idea in the future as well. I wonder if a hundred
years from now the textbooks will say GW Bush was a sly fox for remaining
quiet regarding the pardon of Abdul Qadeer Khan while seeking UN sanctions
against Iran for its secret nuclear program.

Mu
armchair quarterback

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"Willi" wrote in message
...

I guess you have more respect for the present state of our two political
parties than I do.

Hm......don't take this wrong, but do you have ANY idea of who you're
talking to?

I can't imagine a man like that today even making it
to the House or the Senate without "changing."

Well, I would never do so myself, but I'm going to guess that some of our
less charitable brethren might consider a lack of imagination a SERIOUS
impediment to idle speculation.

But if he did, do you
think that either the Democrats or the Republicans would support such a
man as their candidate for President?

Both Democrats and Republicans sometimes (rarely, to be sure, but it does
happen) find themselves in the uncomfortable position of being confronted by
human beings. They dither, they temporize, they dig around in their pants
and, in the end, they do what they always do.

The way I see our present system, is that candidates are chosen for the
lowest common denominator and we get mediocrity. (Which can have a few
pluses as well as minuses)

Candidates are chosen for the same reasons they have always been. And, as
always, half of the morons are wrong and they lose. The other half are
wrong and lucky.

Wolfgang

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
--Theodore Roosevelt

--
Ken Fortenberry

So how do you reconcile this hero's utterance with your own willingness to
personally attack an individual who disagrees with you? You have so little
respect for ayone of a differing opinion, one senses the willingness to
murder, or kill. As Jesus said, if you utter the phrase, :"you idiot", you
are guilty of murder. So Teddy, being a Calvinist as I am, believed that all
men are created in God's image, and are entitled to a certain basic respect,
and further, that criticizing the idea is not the same as criticizing the
man who advances the idea. These concepts produced great men like Teddy
Roosevelt, and many others, but are so missing today. Each time you attack
an individual you move society closer to a Hitler/Pol Pot/ Stalin model, and
further away from what you seem to appreciate in this quote from Teddy. Are
you too dense, too consumed by hatred to see this?

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"B J Conner" wrote in message
...

When he was shot he put a bandaid on it and continued with his campaign.

Hm.......

"Band-Aids"- Johnson & Johnson, 1921.

"Theodore Roosevelt"- assassination attempt, Milwuakee, WI, 1912.

Life moved at a slower pace in those halcyon days. Um.......and so did
death......apparently.

Here's a good book to put on your library list.
"Theodore Roosevelt : A Strenuous Life
by Kathleen Dalton"

Thanks. I don't suppose Ms. Dalton addresses the issue of the strenuousness
of waiting nine years to dress a gunshot wound?

Wolfgang
who probably would have grabbed a rag or something.

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"Darwin Vander Stelt" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
. Are
you too dense, too consumed by hatred to see this?


You were doing great, until you called hin dense.

TL
MC

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"B J Conner" wrote in message
...

When he was shot he put a bandaid on it and continued with his
campaign.

Hm.......

"Band-Aids"- Johnson & Johnson, 1921.

"Theodore Roosevelt"- assassination attempt, Milwuakee, WI, 1912.

Life moved at a slower pace in those halcyon days. Um.......and so did
death......apparently.

Here's a good book to put on your library list.
"Theodore Roosevelt : A Strenuous Life
by Kathleen Dalton"

Thanks. I don't suppose Ms. Dalton addresses the issue of the
strenuousness
of waiting nine years to dress a gunshot wound?

Wolfgang
who probably would have grabbed a rag or something.

Actually he used a Bandy Aid. He had Taft pick some up in Tokyo when he was
negotiating the Taft-Katsura agreement. In reality it was one of the
better uses of the Detroit Free Press.
http://www.historybuff.com/library/refteddy.html

Teddy Roosevelt OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"Mu Young Lee" wrote in message
cc.itd.umich.edu...
...I wonder if a hundred
years from now the textbooks will say GW Bush was a sly fox for
remaining
quiet regarding the pardon of Abdul Qadeer Khan while seeking UN
sanctions
against Iran for its secret nuclear program.


I'm no Roosevelt scholar but, from the little I've read, I get the
impression that even among his most ardent critics there are few who
would assail his intelligence.....quite the contrary. Judging by
reports in the media, personal conversations, and the content of
threads here on ROFF very few, even among Bush's most rabid
supporters, are eager to open themselves up to ridicule by suggesting
that he is particularly bright.

Mu
armchair quarterback

Not a bad job except that the law of supply and demand is perhaps
nowhere better illustrated than in the pay scale. :)

Wolfgang

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

Given the character of the man, it doesn't surprise me that he not only
survived being shot but managed to work it into the campaign speech
immediately after the event.

http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/res...ll%20moose.htm

He was, indeed, the bull moose. For all his faults and flaws, he was the
right man for the office at the time. I can't imagine any of the
politicians I've grown up with delivering a speech after being wounded.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

rw:
Taking Kettle Hill was crucial to the battle of San Juan Hill. TR and
his Rough Riders and the Buffalo Soldiers also stormed San Juan Hill, at
great risk.

No argument there. I was merely going for accuracy in my earlier post.
The initial charge, and the one that earned them the greater fame was up
Kettle Hill. The popular press wrapped them together and TR rode it as far
as he could.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

Teddy Roosevelt OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

I wonder if a hundredyears from now the textbooks will say GW Bush was a
sly fox for remaining
quiet regarding the pardon of Abdul Qadeer Khan while seeking UN sanctions
against Iran for its secret nuclear program.
Mu
armchair quarterback

It would be interesting to live long enough to read the various historical
accounts of the period since the Beirut Barracks bombings up through the
next two decades. I have my theories on how things will play out, not
necessarily to my liking. I'd like to see how history treats several
nations and several players that we assume to be key today.


--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"slenon" wrote in message
om...
...I can't imagine any of the
politicians I've grown up with delivering a speech after being
wounded.

Well, if you consider blunt trauma to the head a wound and don't
specify a time frame, the evidence suggests you'd have a very hard
time finding one who hasn't.

Wolfgang

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

Darwin Vander Stelt wrote:

... So Teddy, being a Calvinist as I am, ...

You're a Calvinist ? ME TOO !! That Hobbes was one way cool
stuffed tiger, wasn't he ?

Ponder this traditional Zulu oral teaching translated into the English
and transcribed by the novelist Jordan Ngubane.

================================================== ==================================
I evolve forever, in response to the challenge of being human.
I have a mind to light my path in the mazes of the cosmic order.
This mind has many sides;
It comprehends all things;
It establishes my right to latitude; to being heard;
It makes me feel at home in the cosmic order.
My neighbor has a mind;
It, also, comprehends all things.
My neighbor and I have the same origins;
We have the same life-experience and a common destiny;
We are the obverse and reverse sides of one entity;
We are unchanging equals;
We are the faces which see themselves in each other;
We are mutually fulfilling complements;
We are simultaneously legitimate values;
My neighbor's sorrow is my sorrow;
His joy is my joy.
He and I are mutually fulfilled when we stand by each other in moments of need.
His survival is a precondition of my survival.
That which is freely asked or freely given is love;
Imposed love is a crime against humanity.
I am sovereign of my life;
My neighbor is sovereign of his life;
Society is a collective sovereignty;
It exists to ensure that my neighbor and I realize the promise of being human.
I have no right to anything I deny my neighbor...
I define myself in what I do to my neighbor.
No community has any right to prescribe destiny for other communities...
Equals do not prescribe destiny for each other;
They hold conversations of minds.
================================================== ===============================


--
Ken Fortenberry

OT American Taliban in Congress and the White House
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
om...
Darwin Vander Stelt wrote:

... So Teddy, being a Calvinist as I am, ...

You're a Calvinist ? ME TOO !! That Hobbes was one way cool
stuffed tiger, wasn't he ?

Ponder this traditional Zulu oral teaching translated into the English
and transcribed by the novelist Jordan Ngubane.


================================================== ==========================
========
I evolve forever, in response to the challenge of being human.
I have a mind to light my path in the mazes of the cosmic order.
This mind has many sides;
It comprehends all things;
It establishes my right to latitude; to being heard;
It makes me feel at home in the cosmic order.
My neighbor has a mind;
It, also, comprehends all things.
My neighbor and I have the same origins;
We have the same life-experience and a common destiny;
We are the obverse and reverse sides of one entity;
We are unchanging equals;
We are the faces which see themselves in each other;
We are mutually fulfilling complements;
We are simultaneously legitimate values;
My neighbor's sorrow is my sorrow;
His joy is my joy.
He and I are mutually fulfilled when we stand by each other in moments of
need.
His survival is a precondition of my survival.
That which is freely asked or freely given is love;
Imposed love is a crime against humanity.
I am sovereign of my life;
My neighbor is sovereign of his life;
Society is a collective sovereignty;
It exists to ensure that my neighbor and I realize the promise of being
human.
I have no right to anything I deny my neighbor...
I define myself in what I do to my neighbor.
No community has any right to prescribe destiny for other communities...
Equals do not prescribe destiny for each other;
They hold conversations of minds.

Hm.......smells like fried mopani worms.

Wolfgang