Larry L wrote:
"rw" wrote

Western Claves are about

serious dawn-to-dark fishing,



That is another reason I never made it last year. I was camped down near
Wood Rd by H Fork and got in my truck to "go clave." When I got to the
road that goes over to the Madison over that bridge where everyone fishes
( not 3 buck, the real highway bridge ) I thought " ****, nobody will be
there anyway, they will all be out fishing. The only time to catch them
would be late, after dark," I ended up doing laundry instead, if I
remember.

I recall that at the Ennis Clave and the Rock Creek Clave it was so
freaking hot during the middle of the day that people hung out in camp
during midday and fished only in the morning and the evening. It really
varies depending on weather and location. My recollection of year's
Western Clave on the Madison was of lots of fishing and lots of driving,
and not much around-camp socializing and very little sleep. There are so
many great spots within a day's range. Most of my socializing, if you
can call it that, was in the car.

I think you're just a yellow chicken, Larry. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

rw wrote:


... The four Western Claves I've been to have been conspicuous for
their LACK of socializing, except for raffle night, which can be
skipped if you prefer. snip
Western Claves occasionally will have some bozo complain that he's not
been given enough respect or experienced enough camaraderie (usually
complaining on ROFF after the Clave), but he can be either ignored or
ridiculed.


Dave LaCourse is *not* some bozo. He's hosted Claves, attended
many, and his observations about the Western Clave he attended
are very similar to "conspicuous for its LACK of socializing."

That's funny. I was thinking of both LaCourse AND you. You two are the
only people I can think of who've had the bad taste to whine about a
clave on ROFF because you didn't think you were treated properly. (Not
counting that ludicrous Blackcat person who complained he felt left out,
after fishing the Kiddie Hole of the San Juan all day every day.)

If you want socializing, a Western Clave may not be the ticket. If you
want fishing, on the other hand, and if you want to meet some characters
who really know how to fish (and some who don't -- I'm thinking Vern),
you could do a lot worse.

As for camaraderie, I've met at least a half dozen people at Western
Claves whom I consider close friends, and not merely fishing
acquaintances, and whom I look forward to meeting as often as possible
(usually in the act of fishing, admittedly). Camaraderie is a two-way
proposition.

I won't be able to make it to the Western Clave this year because of a
scheduling problem. It will be the only one I've missed, and it is
really disappointing to me. All I can say is, tight lines, guys.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rw" wrote


There are so
many great spots within a day's range. Most of my socializing, if you can
call it that, was in the car.




The driving in the Park can get really old, especially if you hit a buffalo
jam. I bought a tent, found and cleaned up an old propane stove from my
duckblind and am shopping for other odds and ends for car camping. This
year I plan to leave the trailer someplace secure occassionally and do
overnight trips to the Lewis, Yellowstone, Slough/ Lamar areas, just to
keep the FDR under control a little better.


I think you're just a yellow chicken, Larry. :-)





Now I admit I have a recurring nightmare of being in a river, surrounded by
tall, handsome, young athletic guys wearing "Western Clave" t-shirts, along
with the finest in outdoor equipment and tackle. I'm the only person in
the area that has any gray hair ( not much hair, but gray), is extremely
fat, hobbles when he walks ( which is as little as possible ) and I'm
fishing with an old rod spliced together with twine and with a fly reel
attached by duct tape.

Every other person in sight, and there are hundreds, has a 'fish on'
constantly but I cast and cast and cast and cast with never a take. I'm
nearly deaf from years of too much shotgun and dog whistle so I can't hear
the actual words, but I hear their chuckles and see them gesturing at me
often. Then I point at a bug and say "infrequens" and there is a deafening
roar of laughter, followed by fish jumping out of the water into the already
posed hands of these other, photogenic, fishermen for some great hero
fishing pictures .... me still futilely casting and casting and casting and
casting the whole while.

But I don't think the dream means anything.about me having any degree of
insecurity ...really, honest.

Larry ( who ain't skeerd )

Larry L wrote:
"rw" wrote

Western Claves are about
serious dawn-to-dark fishing,

That is another reason I never made it last year. I was camped down
near Wood Rd by H Fork and got in my truck to "go clave." When I
got to the road that goes over to the Madison over that bridge where
everyone fishes ( not 3 buck, the real highway bridge ) I thought "
****, nobody will be there anyway, they will all be out fishing. The
only time to catch them would be late, after dark,"

My first (and only) clave experience was the same. I arrived at the
campground at Penns midday and everyone was gone. I should have
ransacked the place, but I drove around and found them instead. My first
and only sighting was Willi - can't really miss him - and Mike Makela. I
had to find some low(er) and slow(er)water so I said hello and goodbye
and took off on my own. Found some nice spots off the beaten path.
Around dusk, I arrived at the prescribed meeting place and drank some
beers while other roffians slowly showed up. As each small group
arrived, I found them all to be above average in agreeability, and
eerily un-scary as they appear on roff. Enjoyed a good meal and made
some friends in the process. The next morning we sat around clave
central and I listened to some good stories. Then they threw me and my
wallet into the local fly fishing establishment and I tried to fish some
more afterwards, but my hip boots (big error on my part) were no match
for the high water. Said goodbyes and drove back home, but I look
forward to the claving opportunity again in the future. What a bunch of
freakin' weirdos! Kinda like techno-geeks, but with fly rods. ;-)

These types of gathering are what you make them.
--
TL,
Tim
---------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

Tim J. wrote:
snip
My first (and only) clave experience ...

I should have said "major" clave. I've experienced several mini-claves
(4-6 people) since and they've all been a blast, too.
--
TL,
Tim
---------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

I like to go to claves, but mostly to get super drunk, make fun of
people, and bitch and moan about everything. It's so dang fun.

bruce h :-)

wrote in message
ups.com...
I like to go to claves, but mostly to get super drunk, make fun of
people, and bitch and moan about everything. It's so dang fun.

bruce h :-)

well, sure. just a continuation of everyday life, as i see it.

:)

yfitons
wayno ('course, ya gotta bring the dwight yoakum cd's...)

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:17:43 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote:


"Ken Fortenberry" wrote

Just as well. There's nothing at all wrong with a
"no booze for me" attitude but a self-proclaimed
"anti-booze snob" would be god's own wet blanket
and a royal pain in the arse at a Clave.


FWIW, I agree with you. It is one, but not the major reason I've decided
to not clave. I was all set, only 35 miles away, in my truck and ready
to go to last years Western Clave, when I realized that I seem to have very
little in common with the vast majority on ROFF, and would likely end up
being a stick in the mud in more ways than one.

Willi once called me anti-social and that isn't accurate, as best I can tell
from the inside. But I'm not a "fish with" kind of person, indeed with
the
exception of a few days with my son, where only he had a rod, I probably
haven't "fished with" others more than half dozen days in 35 years. I enjoy
chatting with the others I meet on the creek, but having to keep the needs,
schedules, and preferences of others "in the back of my mind" would ruin my
day.

No Clave I've heard of has any "have to" schedules. If you want to
fish alone, you just smile and say where you're going, if you wish to
even do that, and go.

I did that for years, traveling with clients and trying to stick some
fishing into the trips .... I'd never take a dog with me at this point for
the same reason, having to get back to let him out, or worrying about him in
the truck is a "been there, done that, never want to again" .... in my book.

I'd very much like to sit and leisurely discuss fly fishing with a Willi or
Mike
Connor, or maybe tag along and watch them fish, but I don't get the
impression
that a clave is the place to do it.

I've been to only a couple of R.O.F.F. Claves and couple of the WI fly
fishing group Claves, but yes, it can be. Even in a large group a few
people sitting near one another can have conversations that don't
include the whole group.

You can sit in camp all day if you want to and listen to the stories
as folks come in. You can fish in the stream that's usually nearby as
the mood takes you. You don't have signup sheets and time cards at a
Clave, except if they have a raffle or a going out to dinner night,
which is voluntary.

While the Penn's Clave sounds like the most organized one I've heard
of, it still seems informal. And if anyone notices you've gone off to
bed instead of sitting around the fire talking and / or drinking,
they're not going to blackball you as a jerk. Unless you said
something offensive as you left... :) If there's more drinking than
you like and things get too loud, well, you know where your tent /
camper is, right? I'd say half the people at WI Claves I've attended
(the largest, up to 50 or so people) are their sleeping bags by
somewhere between 10 and 12 pm. Some before that. Very few seem to
stay up later.

On the other hand, you should probably be wiling to smile and be
cheerful and sit around the fire (or on the rental cabin deck or
whatever) for a while and not expect the others to do all the social
work. If you don't join in a bit, at least don't grump about being
treated as an outsider. If you're happy just to watch others fish
and listen to them talk, smile so it shows. Bring your own liquid
refreshments and accept or turn down whatever's offered you as you
please. No problem. Same with food.

And if you're there for two days and that's all the time you want to
spend, say polite good byes to everyone and leave. It's okay.


Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:28:35 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote:


"rw" wrote

Western Claves are about
serious dawn-to-dark fishing,


That is another reason I never made it last year. I was camped down near
Wood Rd by H Fork and got in my truck to "go clave." When I got to the
road that goes over to the Madison over that bridge where everyone fishes
( not 3 buck, the real highway bridge ) I thought " ****, nobody will be
there anyway, they will all be out fishing. The only time to catch them
would be late, after dark,"

Yah? So you go anyway and sit around or fish a while until they get
back?

I ended up doing laundry instead, if I
remember.

Having had occasional flashes of shyness myself that are so acute that
I've missed good social events just because I didn't know anyone
there, though I wanted to meet them, I sympathize. But it's a problem
you can overcome. I ask myself what the worst thing that can happen
is. And it's usually that I won't like any of them and none of them
will like me (and they'll show it). Oh, gee, would that be the total
and complete end of the world? Well, I can write that off as a wasted
couple of days and some wasted driving and maybe up to two weeks of
self pity, then. And it never is. The people I've met have all had
trained or innate good manners or a combination thereof and are quite
willing to meet and share time with someone new who likes their sport
enough to share that liking.

Everyone's even always been kindly about my fishing style or lack
thereof, too.

If those of us who are having an attack of terminal shyness could just
walk in and say, "Hi, I'm so shy I'd like to fade into the woodwork,
but I really do want to be here." it'd be so much better. But we
can't. So we have to do whatever it takes to just get there and hope
for the best.


Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)

"Cyli" wrote

If those of us who are having an attack of terminal shyness could just
walk in and say, "Hi, I'm so shy I'd like to fade into the woodwork,
but I really do want to be here." it'd be so much better. But we
can't.

not true, lady. you could say exactly that at any gathering of roffians
in the old north state, anytime, anywhere, and be ...taken in...

:)

yfitons
wayno