You've gotten tons of great advice from folks more experienced than I
am, but it sounds like you are making the same mistakes I made when I
was starting out a few years back. My starter kit came with a spool of
7x, and I figured that this was what folks mostly used. Of course I've
learned better; I almost never use that fine of a tippet anymore, and
far prefer 5x or occasionally 6x. I don't think I've fished 7x in any
situation for any of my last 40 outings. I know I've gone through 4 or
5 spools of 4x and not one spool of 7x.

But when I did use 7x, I found that my knots were always a weak spot:
I'd touch the grass on a backcast, and the tippet would snap off at the
hook, or I'd be false casting, and the whole front end would break off
at the leader. I didn't fully appreciate how easily a 7x tippet burns
when tying knots: even now I tend to hold my tippet underwater or in my
mouth when I tighten, and I do it very gently. Its healthy to be
paranoid about burning your knots.

I also found that I was wrapping the line around my finger to get a
grip on it when I was tightening it, sometimes even pinching it a
little against my fingernail, and that was weakening it. If your
midtippet breaks are about 6 inches from the knot, I bet that's what's
happening.

Anyway, take Tim Js advice; don't fish 7x until you've figured out
everything else, as you probably aren't advanced enough to be using it.
That level of stealth in the tippet is probably being undone by a
thousand other things.

HTH, and good luck.
--riverman

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
m...

"Jonathan Cook" wrote

Otherwise you
can use your lips.

god, jon, i love it when you talk dirty.

yfitons
wayno (alright, wolfgang, that may be gonzo, but it wasn't *intentionally*
gonzo)

Gonzo or not, intentional or not, it hardly matters, my friend.....no harm
done. However, it raises some interesting questions. I mean, this whole
matter of intent, of wants and desires, of what we embrace and what we shun.
Take Hunter S. Thompson, for example. Clearly, he did not WANT to be Hunter
S. Thompson......and who can blame him? Dicklet, on the other hand,
DOES........and who can blame him?

Wolfgang
go mcfigure.

"Wolfgang" wrote



Take Hunter S. Thompson, for example. Clearly, he did not WANT to be
Hunter S. Thompson......and who can blame him?

i think that is true. he was captured by himself. the movie made the
horror of his life, and his fear of it, obvious.

still, reading his stuff, i am impressed with his perception.





Dicklet, on the other hand,
DOES........and who can blame him?

well, ****, i don't know... we are all mostly soup sandwiches.


yfitons
wayno

Breaking fine tippet -- been there, done that repeatedly, but not any
longer.

Knots, a double surgeon's knot is more than adequate. Do not moisten
FC. Grasp the tippet/leader as well as the tag ends and pull tight
together and quickly -- then pull test.

Use the uniknot to tie to the hook and pull test. Again, do not
moisten and pull the knot tight quickly.

Since going to this, my FC knot failure as dropped to zero. If I
break off a fish, it's because I did something stupid rather than the
knot failing because it was poorly tied. Like last week when I lost a
30+" striper beacuse I mistakenly twirled the drag on my new reel to
full stop when the fish started to run. The highest drag setting on a
Loop HD is beyond ridiculous -- if the 10lb. tippet hadn't broken, the
fish might have pulled the rod out of my hand. Used 15lb. after that
together with a newfound respect for the drag knob.

Lastly, you're fishing trout not bass so don't try and heave the
sucker into the next county. A simple lift of the rod will do.

Peter

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Oh ya, forgot to mention that not all 7X are created equal. I bought
some Orvis Mirage 7X FC mounted on a spool like SA FC. The stuff was
great. I then bought another spool of Mirage only this came on a
standard Orivs spool. The stuff is crap and the spool is crap. If
you're not careful removing it from the spool, the line keeper on the
spool will damage it. The FC was clearly different with the second
batch being very limp and soft -- very difficult to tie a good knot as
well. I'm now on the lookout for some Orvis 7X on the SA style spool
or some SA FC if I can find it in 7X.

The hookup rate on heavily pressured waters will improve with 6X or
7X. The FC is less visible, sinks below the surface so it doesn't
leave that telltale dimpling plus the thin tippet doesn't layout
straight. The bends and squiggles help to produce a better drag free
drift.

I've done this often enough to accept it as fact. On heavily
pressured waters that are relatively slow and smooth flowing, toss a
4X or 5X tippet and fly at a rising fish. If no hits, tie on 18" of
7X, the same fly and then take the fish on the first cast to cover it.
7X is not necessary everywhere but in some places, it's the only way
to stay in the game.

Peter

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On 15 Jun 2005 14:24:38 -0700, "riverman" wrote:


But when I did use 7x, I found that my knots were always a weak spot:
I'd touch the grass on a backcast, and the tippet would snap off at the
hook, or I'd be false casting, and the whole front end would break off
at the leader. I didn't fully appreciate how easily a 7x tippet burns
when tying knots: even now I tend to hold my tippet underwater or in my
mouth when I tighten, and I do it very gently. Its healthy to be
paranoid about burning your knots.

Okay, this makes me feel a lot better. A couple of times I was
wondering where the &&*%# my fly went.

I also found that I was wrapping the line around my finger to get a
grip on it when I was tightening it, sometimes even pinching it a
little against my fingernail, and that was weakening it. If your
midtippet breaks are about 6 inches from the knot, I bet that's what's
happening.


Since I've heard about how darn fragile the stuff is, I'm convinced I
was doing a lot of other stuff to weaken it , too!

Anyway, take Tim Js advice; don't fish 7x until you've figured out
everything else, as you probably aren't advanced enough to be using it.
That level of stealth in the tippet is probably being undone by a
thousand other things.


That's advice I'm going to heed.

HTH, and good luck.

It does, and thanks.

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
m...

"Wolfgang" wrote



Take Hunter S. Thompson, for example. Clearly, he did not WANT to be
Hunter S. Thompson......and who can blame him?

i think that is true. he was captured by himself.

The occupational hazard of the solipsist. The list of possible candidates
to be held responsible for the fact that one is an ass.....an asshole....or
whatever is quickly exhausted, leaving only one clear choice.

the movie made the horror of his life, and his fear of it, obvious.

I haven't seen it myself. I suspect (based on the little of his work I've
read) that the horror was obvious to Thompson long before.

still, reading his stuff, i am impressed with his perception.

I'll concede perception on the basis of your testimony, but perception alone
isn't worth all that much to anyone else.



Dicklet, on the other hand,
DOES........and who can blame him?

well, ****, i don't know... we are all mostly soup sandwiches.

Ain't it the truth. Nevertheless, I like to think that if I loathed myself
so much that I desperately wanted to be someone else, I would be able to
find a model who didn't loathe himself so much that he'd rather be dead. If
not.......well, one can at least save time by cutting out the middle man.
:)

Wolfgang
who is busy enough being the center of himself, thank you very much......the
universe can find its own.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:07:23 -0500, "Wolfgang" wrote:


"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
om...

"Wolfgang" wrote



Take Hunter S. Thompson, for example. Clearly, he did not WANT to be
Hunter S. Thompson......and who can blame him?

i think that is true. he was captured by himself.

No, he not only wanted to be the Doc, he rolled around in it like a pig
in warm mud. And as an aside, as I've said before, the Doc ain't Raoul,
and Raoul ain't the Doc...

The occupational hazard of the solipsist. The list of possible candidates
to be held responsible for the fact that one is an ass.....an asshole....or
whatever is quickly exhausted, leaving only one clear choice.

Well, they say that the first step in getting help is admitting you have
a problem...and since your choices are exhausted, maybe now you can seek
that help more fully.

the movie made the horror of his life, and his fear of it, obvious.

"The movie?" Regardless of the one to which you refer - no.

I haven't seen it myself. I suspect (based on the little of his work I've
read) that the horror was obvious to Thompson long before.

still, reading his stuff, i am impressed with his perception.

I'll concede perception on the basis of your testimony, but perception alone
isn't worth all that much to anyone else.

****, the Doc pretty much enjoyed being the Doc, but like most, his mind
wasn't quite as free as he hoped or wished, hence the
personally-ingested drugs, either actual or literary.


Dicklet, on the other hand,
DOES........and who can blame him?

Er, no - exactly bass ackwards - I don't want to the Doc, the Doc wanted
to be "me" - not _me_ in the specific, "me" in general.

well, ****, i don't know... we are all mostly soup sandwiches.

No, sorry, we aren't...and your feeling that "we" are is sad, gonzo, and
well, puzzling...at least on the face of it...

Ain't it the truth.

See above, at least the first part...

Nevertheless, I like to think that if I loathed myself
so much that I desperately wanted to be someone else, I would be able to
find a model who didn't loathe himself so much that he'd rather be dead. If
not.......well, one can at least save time by cutting out the middle man.
:)

Ah, yes, the perception and perspective of a common man with a cheap
education...IOW, wrong. I, for one, don't wish or want to be anyone
else, and if anything, most wish and want to be "me" - again, in the
general rather than specific.

Wolfgang
who is busy enough being the center of himself, thank you very much......the
universe can find its own.

Uh-huh...right...such a serious, busily-self-centered lil' pup...

Eleven-and-a-half-Eagles...Dick

wrote in message
...
...he...the Doc...he...a pig...I've...the Doc...Raoul...Raoul...the
Doc...the Doc...the Doc...he...I...the Doc, the Doc..."me"... _me_
..."me"...we..."we"...I..."me"....

What could possibly be more precious than the close personal bond of mutual
devotion between two sympatico souls?

Eleven-and-a-half-Eagles...Dick

Well, yeah.....o.k.....there is that.

Wolfgang