How would you esplain it?
 

salmobytes wrote:

I noticed something interesting, I think.
Google has a lot of freely available statistics about
usenet traffic and usage patterns, on a group by group basis,
going back a long ways.

Some groups, like rec.woodworking, are statistically stable.
The average number of posts per day for rec.woodworking now
is roughly what it was seven years ago.

But traffic to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly is roughly 80% less
than it used to be.

Do we have fewer fly fishermen?
Or are they.....well. What is it?

You've gotten about what I expected in responses to this bit of
trollery. So here's my take:

First, as to rec.woodworking -- have you actually looked at the
content of those posts? On any given day you have tons of spam, repeat
questions about what's the best [insert power tool here] to buy, pleas
for links to free plans for everything under the sun, debates on whether
Norm Abrams is really the anti-christ or just another Jewish carpenter,
questions on what sort of stain should be used on cherry, etc., etc., ad
nauseum.

Despite the naysayers (many of whom seem to be magically coerced to
continue following ROFF, despite their wailing and moaning about how
horrible it is, btw), I'd still rather waste my time over here than at
"the wreck". As to the volume of posts, I would venture that the core
group is smaller in ff'ing than woodworking, and I'd expect the
newcomers are fewer as well.

Stats are pretty much meaningless as an indicator of "value", and
"value" itself is only measureable by the individual; what's old hat to
you might be new and interesting to me. But such is "life" on Usenet.
The folks on the woodworking group have been moaning about how the
quality of the group has gone downhill since before I first started
following it (1996?). Many folks left and went to moderated bulletin
boards when they got tired of all the "newbies" and the deterioration of
what they saw as "their group". I've sampled those forums, and frankly
I don't care for the forced politeness that comes with them.

FWIW, I was a participant in an old Bitnet forum called Allmusic",
that was active in the late 80's and early 90's, and once it was turned
into an invitation only forum, it died a quick death. It turns out that
the activity generated by dumb newbies ("aolusers" in those days) was a
big part of what kept the "community" together.

Some of what I've seen here is pretty ugly, and I don't really
understand why folks who have shared time on the water together
(seemingly as friends) would treat each other as mortal enemies around
here, but that's life on newsgroups. Many of us say things here we
wouldn't in person.

As for the regulars from the past who are mostly absent, I'd like to
think that they are out on the water, and that they simply don't have
time to "waste" on ROFF. I know I'd like to be in that boat (no pun
intended) more often than I seem to manage.

So, my point in this whole rant? Nothing, really. Just that a
newsgroup is what you (the general "you") make of it. If you want ff
content, post some. If you don't want arguments and ****ing matches,
don't participate in them. But don't moan and whine about the nature of
the group if that's your sole contribution to it.


Chuck Vance (move along ... nothing to see here)

How would you esplain it?
 

On Mar 23, 1:46 pm, Conan The Librarian wrote:


So, my point in this whole rant? Nothing, really. Just that a
newsgroup is what you (the general "you") make of it. If you want ff
content, post some. If you don't want arguments and ****ing matches,
don't participate in them. But don't moan and whine about the nature of
the group if that's your sole contribution to it.

Chuck Vance (move along ... nothing to see here)

This has often been stated, but it is simply not true. It is more or
less impossible for anybody to post here without being abused or
insulted.Always by the same people. Most people quite rightly see
absolutely no point in allowing themselves to be treated in such a
fashion, most especially as regardless of what outrages are
perpetrated, there is absolutely nothing they can do about it.

This is the main reason most of the old guard have left, they were
simply sick of the abuse. Newbies who wander in here, and there used
to be a large number, mainly do so because they want to hear something
about fly-fishing, As soon as they see that there is practically no
fly-fishing, just contentious bull****, and mainly off-topic, they
leave and go elsewhere. This is quite apart from those who are
insulted or abused on their first post or two. I have no doubt that
the vast majority never even post at all, they take a look, and leave.

Extreme bad manners, vituperation, and general ignorance are the order
of the day on this group, and that can not be changed by a few
sensible people, or even more than a few. It can only be changed if
those responsible could somehow be forced into complying with normal
manners and decency, but they can not. They simply continue to ruin
this group with impunity.

Fortenberry and Dean have actually stated they only come here to waste
time and entertain themselves by insulting and abusing others. Why
should any sensible person put up with that?

The analogy to a bar is also completely wrong. In a bar, those two
would not survive for five minutes before being given the bum´s
rush.They come here specifically to misbehave, because they would not
be allowed to do so anywhere else, those few remaining have become
inured to this, and as long as they themselves are not targeted they
either ignore it, or even join in with the slagging when the fancy
takes them.

This group is practically dead as a result.

MC

How would you esplain it?
 

I was wondering,
why not restore ROFF?
Get it back on track to being a good group for fly-fishing.
I believe if everyone makes an effort it can be done.
fwiw,
-tom

How would you esplain it?
 

On Mar 22, 10:26 pm, " wrote:
this place originated as a cybersapce bar room, where folks who
were originally attracted by an obvious common sporting interest sat
and relaxed, just bull****ting about fishing and lifeitsownself, at
the end of the fishing day, as friends do after the same activity in
real life.

Pretty much what mfitons says echoes my thoughts.

While noting that KF's reasonable issue that ROFF did not originate as
a cyberspace bar room, I'd insert my opinion that while
rec.outdoors.fishing.fly is undeniably nothing more than a binary
Usenet construct, the oft-lamented ROFF was indeed something more than
that.

But except for wayno's disinterest in another Clave, what he said.

Joe F.

How would you esplain it?
 

On Mar 23, 3:44 pm, wrote:

BULL**** SNIPPED

This group is practically dead as a result.

Then why are you here, you pompous, full-of-**** windbag?

Dickie



MC

To see you pull the rug out from under your own feet. When this group
dies, you and Kenny will have nowhere to misbehave. People who run
them wont allow you on to any other fishing groups.

MC

How would you esplain it?
 

How would you esplain it?
 

On Mar 23, 2:58 pm, Conan The Librarian wrote:

BTW, did you ever wonder why it is that folks who would normally
argue with each other over whether the sky was blue, all seem to be of
one mind when it comes to you? I know ... they're all stupid and
arrogant arseholes, and you're not to blame for any of it.

Well if you know they are stupid and arrogant arseholes why are you
asking me dumb questions?

Perhaps you should ask the 80% who have left, and the others who are
doubtless about to, what they think?

Chuck Vance (and if you think it's bad here, I can't imagine what
would happen to you on a political newsgroup)

This is the practically the only Usenet newsgroup I have used, apart
from a couple of UK fishing groups. I am not interested in political
newsgroups, or indeed any others.

Bye.......................

MC

How would you esplain it?
 

salmobytes typed:
I noticed something interesting, I think.
Google has a lot of freely available statistics about
usenet traffic and usage patterns, on a group by group basis,
going back a long ways.

Some groups, like rec.woodworking, are statistically stable.
The average number of posts per day for rec.woodworking now
is roughly what it was seven years ago.

But traffic to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly is roughly 80% less
than it used to be.

Do we have fewer fly fishermen?
Or are they.....well. What is it?
How what why.

I would offer that fewer new people are taking up fly fishing in proportion
to the amount of time that passes since the release of "the movie." However,
has anyone else noticed the advertisers have now decided to have a fly
fisher in every freakin' ad on T.V.? I've only seen one ad where it looks
like they hired someone who actually knew how to cast, and the others were
just actors told to wave the rod in the air. In one in particular, the guy
casts just like a bait caster, extending his arm straight out in front of
him.

But I digress. . . there's no reason to panic or mourn, or to attach some
hidden meaning. ROFF is a shape-shifter diversion for those of us who care
it to be. Some get hung up in the more potent discussions, and others can't
seem to divert their eyes from the train wrecks and yet complain about the
view. When someone asks a well framed and thought-out fly fishing question
of the group, good advice is usually given. The fact that there are many
times more than one right answer to a question, and that we can all be
quite, well, opinionated makes for the pepperiness in the pot.

The bottom line is those with thicker skins will stay, survive, and thrive
while those with thinner skins will move on. For those reading this who have
not been to a ROFF clave, have no fear and attend one at your earliest
convenience. These boys and girl(s) are like big cuddly teddy bears when
they don't have their computer monitors to shield them. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

How would you esplain it?
 

How would you esplain it?
 

On Mar 23, 7:19 am, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
I was wondering,
why not restore ROFF?
Get it back on track to being a good group for fly-fishing.
I believe if everyone makes an effort it can be done.
fwiw,
-tom

Sounds like a good idea to me Tom.

How did that Smokey Robinson song go?
"If you feel like giving me a newsgroup of eclosion (or what was it?),
I second that emotion."