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Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 13, 2:21 am, daytripper wrote:
SNIP How about a comment on the line facts? Or donīt you know any either? "Line facts"? yawn Frankly, if it can't be solved with a 444SL, in an appropriate weight for the rod and taper for the fly, it isn't worth solving.... /daytripper ("Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep...") Looks like I guessed right then? You donīt know any facts either? You just dole out the bull**** same as Kenny boy. Seems to me you people have more money than either sense or knowledge, which is fine really, but makes you singularly unsuited to giving advice to newbies on tight budgets. And just prey for manufacturers who use your ignorance to boost their profits. Paranoia? Now why should I be paranoid about anything at all? Your medical advice is probably worth just about as much as your line advice. Just as well I donīt need either. Whatever, if you need any sensible advice, or even want to waste a little less money, you know where to find me.......... -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:37:02 -0700, Mike wrote:
On Aug 13, 2:21 am, daytripper wrote: SNIP How about a comment on the line facts? Or donīt you know any either? "Line facts"? yawn Frankly, if it can't be solved with a 444SL, in an appropriate weight for the rod and taper for the fly, it isn't worth solving.... /daytripper ("Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep...") Looks like I guessed right then? You donīt know any facts either? You just dole out the bull**** same as Kenny boy. Seems to me you people have more money than either sense or knowledge, which is fine really, but makes you singularly unsuited to giving advice to newbies on tight budgets. And just prey for manufacturers who use your ignorance to boost their profits. Paranoia? Now why should I be paranoid about anything at all? Your medical advice is probably worth just about as much as your line advice. Just as well I donīt need either. Whatever, if you need any sensible advice, or even want to waste a little less money, you know where to find me.......... Um, no. And that's fine with me, thanks... /daytripper (but do go on - there's a speck of entertainment value in it) |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
Mike wrote:
snip However, at least I probably saved the original poster 55 dollars for a load of useless crap. No matter who or what he believes, he will at least now think about it. Indeed, I will put my money where my mouth is, if you send me your mailing address, ( my e-mail address is below), I will send you a shooting head for your rod for free, so you can try it. Also instructions on how to adjust it if necessary. I donīt sell anything at all, this is just an offer to help you, and annoy Kenny when you come back and tell us all how well it worked. So whatcha gonna do now Kenny boy? Send him a lump of over-hyped fifty-five dollar plastic? Or call me some more silly names? I take it you're offering to send the original poster some sort of shooting head contraption assuming that I will not offer to send him a Cortland 444 Bass taper. As if that would prove anything. I'll make you a deal. Put together a shooting head contraption for a 6wt fly rod that will accurately toss big deer hair bugs between 20 and 50 feet *AND* post here all the ingredients necessary to construct this contraption *AND* an online source for all these ingredients *including* the price of each. If the price of this contraption is less than the price of the Cortland send it to me: Ken Fortenberry 804 W. Indiana Ave. Urbana, IL 61801 USA I'll give it a fair test and post the results to roff. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:49:06 -0000, mdk77
wrote: Thanks to all of you who helped me get started fly fishing this Spring. Now, after my first Spring and Summer of fishing, I'm back here needing some more advice. I live in Central Illinois so 90% of my fishing has been for panfish and bass on ponds and lakes. Mostly small ponds and lakes that I can wade. I may try canoe fishing next year too, on these same waters. I do get away for trout fishing once a year on vacation though (next year I'm going to Taneycomo for a week for Browns and Rainbows.....this Summer I was in Canada with 3-5 pound Rainbows). I'm a family-guy on a tight budget, so I started out with a Cabella's Three Forks 6wt rod with Cortland 444 Classic Peach WF6 Floating line. I know it's a KPOC, but it was all I could afford. I caught a ton of fish on it this year though. I took a class and learned to tie my own flies, and 90% of the flies I fish with are my own (often ugly) flies size 6-12. I fish mostly nymphs, streamers (weighted or with bead heads), and terrestrials. While I like catching the pan fish, I most enjoy catching bass. They are a real thrill on a fly rod. I don't plan on fishing big size hooks for bass, as I've done fine around here with #6 hooks for bass, and bigger didn't seem to improve my catches. Sometimes I was frustrated this year trying to fish on windy days with my rig, but maybe it was me and not the equipment. I think Santa is going to bring me a 2nd fly outfit this Christmas. I'm working hard to be on Santa's "good" list (my wife) and dropping hints already :-) What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable (something around $300)? I might add here that I'm REALLY satisfied with the Prestige Plus reel that came with the KPOC -- I've landed some big bass, and one monster carp without feeling I needed anything better than the Prestige Plus reel. I would like to put my money in a nice rod. Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with? What's the chance you'll fish other waters? If "none," then get something beside more gear...as Wayne K. has heart failure..., if the answer is "pretty good" - such as down to the Keys for a fishcation, or maybe to some small water/picturesque digs, get a "kitchen pass"... What do I mean? Well, getting a "better" rod probably won't (objectively) help much on the same water - you just can't fix what ain't broke, but what you've got won't be the right size or weight for small, little water or bone, tarpon, etc. IOW, new gear for you and a vacation for you both. That said, if you aren't going to different water and if you are of such a bent, a good, fishable 'boo (no, not new), a silk line (new), and good old reel, maybe a Hardy or solid old Medallist, would provide a whole 'nuther perspective...as always, YMMV... TC, R |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:36:25 -0400, daytripper
wrote: On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:37:02 -0700, Mike wrote: On Aug 13, 2:21 am, daytripper wrote: SNIP How about a comment on the line facts? Or donīt you know any either? "Line facts"? yawn Frankly, if it can't be solved with a 444SL, in an appropriate weight for the rod and taper for the fly, it isn't worth solving.... /daytripper ("Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep...") Looks like I guessed right then? You donīt know any facts either? You just dole out the bull**** same as Kenny boy. Seems to me you people have more money than either sense or knowledge, which is fine really, but makes you singularly unsuited to giving advice to newbies on tight budgets. And just prey for manufacturers who use your ignorance to boost their profits. Paranoia? Now why should I be paranoid about anything at all? Your medical advice is probably worth just about as much as your line advice. Just as well I donīt need either. Whatever, if you need any sensible advice, or even want to waste a little less money, you know where to find me.......... Um, no. And that's fine with me, thanks... /daytripper (but do go on - there's a speck of entertainment value in it) Well, no one asked my opinion, but if they did, I say I was just so impressed that no one was really, um, digging in... Golly, oh so how I hope this helps, R ....no, really, I typed that with a straight...well, at least not a nappy-headed Nazi homo....face... |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 13, 4:48 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: Mike wrote: I take it you're offering to send the original poster some sort of shooting head contraption assuming that I will not offer to send him a Cortland 444 Bass taper. As if that would prove anything. I'll make you a deal. Put together a shooting head contraption for a 6wt fly rod that will accurately toss big deer hair bugs between 20 and 50 feet *AND* post here all the ingredients necessary to construct this contraption *AND* an online source for all these ingredients *including* the price of each. If the price of this contraption is less than the price of the Cortland send it to me: Ken Fortenberry 804 W. Indiana Ave. Urbana, IL 61801 USA I'll give it a fair test and post the results to roff. -- Ken Fortenberry Wow! What a great deal, I am truly honoured. I will send the original poster a head if he wants one. I donīt care what you do. I told you, a matched head on one of my #6 weight rods will cast even very large pike flies a good distance, I have not measured it, but fifty feet should not be a problem with a bass bug, and the head costs less than five dollars. ( Quite a bit less actually). I also gave you a URL containing the instructions for making up a matched head. Those were independent instructions. From a recognised and reliable source. It is easy enough to do. It is actually pretty hard to bungle it, if you follow the pretty simple instructions.There are lots of people using my lines, and also heads they have made up according to my and otherīs instructions, and they already know it works, so I donīt really need to take advantage of your extremely kind ???offer??? Nor do I require your blessing, sponsorship, or affidavit as to the effectiveness or potential uses of of shooting heads??? I have been using them for nearly forty years. It seems you are offering to pay for a head? I also told you, I donīt sell anything at all. Make your own head, then you might learn something about fly lines. Indeed, just reading the URL I gave you would be a good idea. Even the cheapest double taper fly line you can find in the appropriate weight will make you two excellent shooting heads.I use lines that cost about 6 dollars ( American) so my heads cost about three dollars each. If you want a "rocket" or "bass bug" taper. You merely connect the thick end of the line to your leader. This will turn over even the heaviest of flies, ( given the correct leader) and the taper on the thin end of the DT will also give you an excellent back taper ensuring good turnover. The Cortland line you are talking about, is only a shooting head attached to integrated running line. It has several disadvantages by virtue of its construction. You can not adjust the weight of the head to suit your rod, without cutting the line. This would compromise the taper, and also leave you with a "genuine" shooting head with a damaged taper! , which you would have to attach to appropriate backing. Despite colour coding and what have you, it is still difficult to gauge the head end, which you need to do to load the rod properly, ( which is why they colour code it, in an attempt to allow this). There are various other problems, not the least of which is the wear on the part of the line you haul. This is immaterial on a shooting head, because you just cut it off and replace it now and again with cheap backing. You are paying a premium price for 42 feet of fly line, and 48 feet of running line, ( see Cortlandīs tech specs)which will not perform as well as a "real" shooting head with the appropriate backing. I prefer to pay three dollars, and get something which works better. It does not matter at all to me whether you believe that or not. Why should it? My only interest here was in showing the original poster how to improve his gear for very little money. It seems you have money to burn anyway, and you are convinced that the line you advised is perfectly excellent. That being the case, simply buy one, it makes no difference to me, itīs not my money. By the way, would you like a really top notch fly-line that requires no care whatsoever, floats perfectly, and is virtually indestructible? For ten cents? I can send you one of those to try if you like, perfect for dry fly fishing, upstream wet fly, and indeed for a host of other things. I will personally give you a lifetime replacement guarantee for it as well. Donīt believe it? Doesnīt matter, it is still true. I sent out over twenty seven such lines in the past few months, and everybody who got one is delighted with it. Somewhat disbelieving at first of course, but now delighted. I donīt need your approval for anything at all, I would merely appreciate you showing some common sense and civility. -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 12, 8:49 am, mdk77 wrote:
Thanks to all of you who helped me get started fly fishing this Spring. Now, after my first Spring and Summer of fishing, I'm back here needing some more advice. I live in Central Illinois so 90% of my fishing has been for panfish and bass on ponds and lakes. Mostly small ponds and lakes that I can wade. I may try canoe fishing next year too, on these same waters. I do get away for trout fishing once a year on vacation though (next year I'm going to Taneycomo for a week for Browns and Rainbows.....this Summer I was in Canada with 3-5 pound Rainbows). I'm a family-guy on a tight budget, so I started out with a Cabella's Three Forks 6wt rod with Cortland 444 Classic Peach WF6 Floating line. I know it's a KPOC, but it was all I could afford. I caught a ton of fish on it this year though. I took a class and learned to tie my own flies, and 90% of the flies I fish with are my own (often ugly) flies size 6-12. I fish mostly nymphs, streamers (weighted or with bead heads), and terrestrials. While I like catching the pan fish, I most enjoy catching bass. They are a real thrill on a fly rod. I don't plan on fishing big size hooks for bass, as I've done fine around here with #6 hooks for bass, and bigger didn't seem to improve my catches. Sometimes I was frustrated this year trying to fish on windy days with my rig, but maybe it was me and not the equipment. I think Santa is going to bring me a 2nd fly outfit this Christmas. I'm working hard to be on Santa's "good" list (my wife) and dropping hints already :-) What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable (something around $300)? I might add here that I'm REALLY satisfied with the Prestige Plus reel that came with the KPOC -- I've landed some big bass, and one monster carp without feeling I needed anything better than the Prestige Plus reel. I would like to put my money in a nice rod. Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with? As Mike said: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". You sound as if you have had much success this past year (better than some of us terribly elite veterans), so put a hold on inventory expansion and get a boat better to enjoy those ponds you have been wading. Few things in life are more relaxing than bluegills on a fly rod from a jon boat on a farm pond on a summer's evening. cheers oz |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 13, 5:21 am, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:36:25 -0400, daytripper wrote: On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:37:02 -0700, Mike wrote: On Aug 13, 2:21 am, daytripper wrote: SNIP How about a comment on the line facts? Or donīt you know any either? "Line facts"? yawn Frankly, if it can't be solved with a 444SL, in an appropriate weight for the rod and taper for the fly, it isn't worth solving.... /daytripper ("Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep...") Looks like I guessed right then? You donīt know any facts either? You just dole out the bull**** same as Kenny boy. Seems to me you people have more money than either sense or knowledge, which is fine really, but makes you singularly unsuited to giving advice to newbies on tight budgets. And just prey for manufacturers who use your ignorance to boost their profits. Paranoia? Now why should I be paranoid about anything at all? Your medical advice is probably worth just about as much as your line advice. Just as well I donīt need either. Whatever, if you need any sensible advice, or even want to waste a little less money, you know where to find me.......... Um, no. And that's fine with me, thanks... /daytripper (but do go on - there's a speck of entertainment value in it) Well, no one asked my opinion, but if they did, I say I was just so impressed that no one was really, um, digging in... Golly, oh so how I hope this helps, R ...no, really, I typed that with a straight...well, at least not a nappy-headed Nazi homo....face... Nobody asks your opinion on anything at all, as long and weary experience has taught them that your opinion on just about anything is more or less worthless, apart it seems from some extremely minimal "entertainment value", which some are apparently only here for, and because you are also a puerile miscreant of the worst possible ilk. MC |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
On Aug 13, 4:48 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: Mike wrote: snip However, at least I probably saved the original poster 55 dollars for a load of useless crap. No matter who or what he believes, he will at least now think about it. Indeed, I will put my money where my mouth is, if you send me your mailing address, ( my e-mail address is below), I will send you a shooting head for your rod for free, so you can try it. Also instructions on how to adjust it if necessary. I donīt sell anything at all, this is just an offer to help you, and annoy Kenny when you come back and tell us all how well it worked. So whatcha gonna do now Kenny boy? Send him a lump of over-hyped fifty-five dollar plastic? Or call me some more silly names? I take it you're offering to send the original poster some sort of shooting head contraption assuming that I will not offer to send him a Cortland 444 Bass taper. As if that would prove anything. I'll make you a deal. Put together a shooting head contraption for a 6wt fly rod that will accurately toss big deer hair bugs between 20 and 50 feet *AND* post here all the ingredients necessary to construct this contraption *AND* an online source for all these ingredients *including* the price of each. If the price of this contraption is less than the price of the Cortland send it to me: Ken Fortenberry 804 W. Indiana Ave. Urbana, IL 61801 USA I'll give it a fair test and post the results to roff. -- Ken Fortenberry Should you actually prefer to use my instructions for making up a head, ( although the result should be the same no matter whose instructions you use), you can find them here; http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...ting_head.html Although this article specifically addresses salt water fishing, the principle is the same. Last but not least, the Cortland line under discussion has a 42 foot head. This is not usually a good length for casting heavy flies. If you want to cast bass bugs and similar at any range, including short ranges, then you would be better served with a shorter head from 30 to 35 feet. This is much easier to aerialise and control, and it will carry much heavier flies more easily. This means of course, that you can cast this line perfectly normally using any technique you like, including roll casting etc, at any range up to 35 feet, while using heavy flies, but if you want to cast to say 50 feet, you need to shoot fifteen feet of backing line as well as the head. This is usually quite easy, indeed much greater distances are possible, even with heavy flies, because the line mass is concentrated in a relatively short length of line, and the mass is matched to the rod. Increasing the head length can give somewhat better presentation, but will not cast quite so heavy flies easily, or into a wind, and you need to be a better caster to aerialise long heads, and when using heavy bass or pike flies, the slightly ( theoretical) better presentation brings no advantages. -- Regards and tight lines! Mike Connor http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/ http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en |
Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
Mike wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote: snip I'll make you a deal. Put together a shooting head contraption for a 6wt fly rod that will accurately toss big deer hair bugs between 20 and 50 feet *AND* post here all the ingredients necessary to construct this contraption *AND* an online source for all these ingredients *including* the price of each. If the price of this contraption is less than the price of the Cortland ... Wow! What a great deal, I am truly honoured. I will send the original poster a head if he wants one. I donīt care what you do. I told you, a matched head on one of my #6 weight rods will cast even very large pike flies a good distance, I have not measured it, but fifty feet should not be a problem with a bass bug, and the head costs less than five dollars. ( Quite a bit less actually). I also gave you a URL containing the instructions for making up a matched head. Those were independent instructions. From a recognised and reliable source. It is easy enough to do. It is actually pretty hard to bungle it, if you follow the pretty simple instructions. ... If you're going to recommend these things to newbies you should include a source for materials. I mean a newbie isn't going to have old scraps of DT line laying around or know where to find cheap running line. My recommendation to a newbie is buy a good fly line, go fish with it and don't worry about trying to roll your own fly line. And I did read part of the article you referenced. The author echoes my own experience with shooting heads in this excerpt: "The use of a shooting head is not only a blessing. There are disadvantages too. Among these you will find: - lack of precision. The strength lies in power and distance, not delicacy. - poor short line abilities. There is a minimum length of line, which has to be out of the top eye before you can cast well. - poor turnover of leader and fly. The heads are often constructed with short front and back tapers and rely on power to turn over properly. - poor roll casting abilities for the same reasons as above. - noisy landing. The line will often splash on the landing especially with sinking lines. It's important to notice that shooting heads are very different. Some are half double taper lines with almost no taper, while others are carefully constructed with roll, spey and underhand casts in mind, and often as good or better with these casts than a simple WF line." Which is pretty much what I posted earlier. -- Ken Fortenberry |
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