Fishing - I need help.

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- - I need help. (http://www.fishingbanter.com/showthread.php?t=31343)

"tim" wrote

including tippit( both 4X). The thing that I hate is I see bait guys
with a stringer full of fish.This is basically my second season FF. Is
my lack of success normal. I am tying my own flies, but do buy
sometimes. I dont know what else to try. Any suggestions?

Tim,

The first thing that comes to MY mind is to ask, "If you were fishing bait,
would YOU be catching fish?"

Assuming a positive reply to my question .... take a flashback GRHE and fish
it exactly where and how you might fish a salmon egg ... same weight, same
drift down through drop offs and runs ... ( NOT the way some people fish
bait, plunk it out there, sit down and wait...yuk ) ... the way small
baits are actively fished in streams for trout by the better practitioners
.... very short line, enough weight to get to the bottom, constant contact
with the lure so that you can feel the rocks and takes ( assume take :-) ,
but still a natural drift ... maybe a tiny strike indicator, but not a
'float' something big enough to keep your fly off the bottom or muscle it's
drift.

Be aware ... trust me .... if you're talking planted trout and bait guys are
doing well ... you WILL have your fly taken many of the drifts ... I'm
certain you have already had your wet flies "eaten," .... yes certain

No need to dispair, you're succeeding, you just don't know it yet G

BUT, unlike bait when your fly is taken, it will then be spit out very
quickly .... the bait is swallowed and it may be MUCH later that the angler
notices You don't have that luxury of time or wandering mind ...
concentration is very important

The key becomes "strike detection" ... ... YOU have to strike anything
that might be a take ( try not to be too forceful, "lift" is a better word
than strike, lift, if no fish lower and continue the drift ) ... you only
have a second or two .. don't delay, don't analyze, don't think, don't
worry what others think, ... LIFT to anything the least bit odd )

Soon, the right kind of odd will become more apparent, but there is no way
to avoid "setting" to rock bumps, and catching leaves. 'Someday" soon
you'll be setting to things you can't even tell us about ... hunches,
flashes, wiggles in the wavelets... certain a fish is there ... for now set
to everything odd ... it will pay off, honest

Lastly, confidence is a MAJOR factor .... trust me ... you WILL have your
nymph eaten a LOT of times ...

On Apr 22, 12:43 pm, Conan The Librarian wrote:
notbob wrote:
On 2008-04-22, Conan The Librarian wrote:

Seriously, I ask you again: When was the last time you fished for
subsistence?

I'd starve to death.

OTOH, it's the only reason I fish. Screw a buncha catch and release. If I
catch a legal fish, I'm gonna eat it.

I daresay no one reading these posts actually fishes for
subsistence. You may keep fish you catch to eat, but you don't subsist
on fishing.

If you did, you'd choose a more efficient method than flyfishing.

I don't quite understand the romantic
notion of fishing. What? A 200lb man with $500 worth of hardware lands a
2lb fish. Big whoop. To some, I guess. If that's their thing, so be it.

Why do you flyfish then?

I have nothing against CnR.

And I have nothing against people keeping their legal limit. I
choose not to on most waters I fish. Big whoop. It's my choice, and it
happens to be the way I prefer it.

Despite Tim's constant protestations, I'd venture a guess that most
ROFFians attitudes are similar. We don't have problems with areas that
are C'n'R; if we choose to fish them we follow the rules. But it's not
an all or nothing situation for us like it is for Tim. We are
comfortable in how we approach the sport. Tim isn't, therefore he's
trying to drag everyone else down to his level.

Recently, I stopped a local fishing guide who was returning from scouting
the river below my place. We talked a bit, me asking if the fish were
biting, etc. I happened to mention my taking up fly fishing so I could
catch a few trout to eat. She got all serious and somewhat indignant that
anyone would actually keep a fish and not release it and went into a long
diatribe about how the fish were not infinite, yada yada. I said I'd heard
this river was loaded with fish and the fishing pressure was light. She
said that was the case a couple years ago. Now, fishing pressure was heavy
and CnR was the only solution. I didn't say anything, but thought it rather
funny and a bit hipocritical, as her boss, who owns three fishing shops, is
out stumping up and down the front range at TU seminars to get people to
drive hundreds of miles to this river so she can charge $300 day to guide
them. Fishing pressure, indeed.

Hypocrites are hypocrites. Whether they happen to be flyfishermen,
baitfishermen, catch and kill, catch and release is immaterial to that fact.

Chuck Vance

Sorry but you're wrong. Read just about every other post here or pick
up any issue of R&R or Flyfishing magazine. The vast majority of
flyfishermen that I see and hear (keep in mind that I lived in the #1
flyfishing city in the world for more than a decade that gave me this
perspective, had a driftboat and the whole catastrophe) bash
relentlessly other anglers and angling techniques. I'm just here to
keep it real and to stick up for the rights of humans to exist on the
food chain and to keep the legacy of angling for food around for my
children's children. So, someone bashes bait fisherman, I'll be right
there. Someone says a negative word to me about having a fish on a
stringer or a stick to my face and I will press charges.

TBone

Conan The Librarian wrote:

Despite Tim's constant protestations, I'd venture a guess that most
ROFFians attitudes are similar. We don't have problems with areas that
are C'n'R; if we choose to fish them we follow the rules. But it's not
an all or nothing situation for us like it is for Tim. We are
comfortable in how we approach the sport. Tim isn't, therefore he's
trying to drag everyone else down to his level.

I've run into C&R bigots on the water, typically when I'm seen killing a
fish. They're extremely annoying, but rare.

I don't know of a single C&R bigot on ROFF. There is, however, a C&K bigot.

BTW, I'll gladly kill trout that are stocked. (I think stocked fish cook
up very well -- perfect pan size and well fed if freshly stocked :-).

I'm loathe to kill a wild trout unless it's fatally hooked. Anyway,
keeping a wild trout is usually illegal where I fish locally (unless
they're brook trout).

The "subsistence" argument for anti-C&R is absurd.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"Larry L" wrote

Lastly, confidence is a MAJOR factor .... trust me ... you WILL have your
nymph eaten a LOT of times ...

a hook hone is a good purchase ... if you use it G

extremely sharp hooks spit out a little slower sometimes or even lead to
fish hooking themselves

those rock bumps dull hooks ... so check points on a fingernail often

Halfordian Golfer wrote:

Sorry but you're wrong. Read just about every other post here or pick
up any issue of R&R or Flyfishing magazine. The vast majority of
flyfishermen that I see and hear (keep in mind that I lived in the #1
flyfishing city in the world for more than a decade that gave me this
perspective, had a driftboat and the whole catastrophe) bash
relentlessly other anglers and angling techniques.

Feel free to show us examples of "about every other post" that
"bash[es] relentlessly other anglers and angling techniques".

I'll wait with "baited" breath.

FWIW, the vast majority of folks I know who "bash" other techniques
"bash" poachers, plain and simple.

I'm just here to
keep it real

Tim, no offense, but you don't have the slightest sense of what's
real.

Someone says a negative word to me about having a fish on a
stringer or a stick to my face and I will press charges.

And I suppose this is another instance of you "keeping it real".

Chuck Vance (the twilight zone runs through it)

On 2008-04-22, Conan The Librarian wrote:

Why do you flyfish then?

I've never tried it and thought I'd give it a go. Also, I sold off all my
old fishing gear (spin and bait) when I moved out here and was able to pick
up some end of season FF gear dirt cheap. From my front window, I can watch
ppl fishing in my river. FFs seem to be more successful. Maybe they are
just more knowledgable.

nb

On Apr 21, 4:06*pm, tim wrote:
I have been out FF four times so far this year. Today I was at the Black
River in Hackelbarney. I have not had any luck yet. I used GRHE,Pheasant
Tail,Royal Coachman Wet, and a Adams dry. I used a 7.5 to 9 FT leader
including tippit( both 4X). The thing that I hate is I see bait guys
with a stringer full of fish.This is basically my second season FF. Is
my lack of success normal. I am tying my own flies, but do buy
sometimes. I dont know what else to try. Any suggestions?

--
tim
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There is some good advise in the thread. Here is mine. Try a worm
pattern, or better yet, try fishing with a worm hooked at one end. The
most likely reasons you are not catching fish yet is 1) most of the
stockers don't know what an aquatic insect is, and 2) You have not
developed enough sense of the "take" yet. There is a fine old
tradition of fishing small worms or worm patterns on a flyrod. In the
early season, after rains, and on some rivers much of the time, some
forms of worm are available to the fish. They are the "hatch."

Because the early season fish in NJ are mostly stockers don't be
bashful . . . leave the barb on, catch a few fish and use this
opportunity to study the critter, open its gut and see what's in
there, check out its mouth and how its hooked, check out its fins and
posit their different functions etc. gills etc..

There is nothing like lack of success to put most people off fly
fishing. Reduce some of the variables for now, catch some fish, study
the critters and keep at it. Good luck.

Dave

"Larry L" wrote

... the way small
baits are actively fished in streams for trout by the better practitioners
... very short line, enough weight to get to the bottom, constant contact
with the lure so that you can feel the rocks and takes ( assume take :-) ,
but still a natural drift ... maybe a tiny strike indicator, but not a
'float' something big enough to keep your fly off the bottom or muscle
it's drift.

google "high stick nymphing" and similar words for ideas on what I have in
mind here

and

to remove any silly snob-guilt about "fishing like bait" .... G

"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message
...
On Apr 22, 12:43 pm, Conan The Librarian wrote:
notbob wrote:
On 2008-04-22, Conan The Librarian wrote:

Seriously, I ask you again: When was the last time you fished for
subsistence?

I'd starve to death.

OTOH, it's the only reason I fish. Screw a buncha catch and release.
If I
catch a legal fish, I'm gonna eat it.

I daresay no one reading these posts actually fishes for
subsistence. You may keep fish you catch to eat, but you don't subsist
on fishing.

If you did, you'd choose a more efficient method than flyfishing.

I don't quite understand the romantic
notion of fishing. What? A 200lb man with $500 worth of hardware
lands a
2lb fish. Big whoop. To some, I guess. If that's their thing, so be
it.

Why do you flyfish then?

I have nothing against CnR.

And I have nothing against people keeping their legal limit. I
choose not to on most waters I fish. Big whoop. It's my choice, and it
happens to be the way I prefer it.

Despite Tim's constant protestations, I'd venture a guess that most
ROFFians attitudes are similar. We don't have problems with areas that
are C'n'R; if we choose to fish them we follow the rules. But it's not
an all or nothing situation for us like it is for Tim. We are
comfortable in how we approach the sport. Tim isn't, therefore he's
trying to drag everyone else down to his level.

Recently, I stopped a local fishing guide who was returning from
scouting
the river below my place. We talked a bit, me asking if the fish were
biting, etc. I happened to mention my taking up fly fishing so I could
catch a few trout to eat. She got all serious and somewhat indignant
that
anyone would actually keep a fish and not release it and went into a
long
diatribe about how the fish were not infinite, yada yada. I said I'd
heard
this river was loaded with fish and the fishing pressure was light.
She
said that was the case a couple years ago. Now, fishing pressure was
heavy
and CnR was the only solution. I didn't say anything, but thought it
rather
funny and a bit hipocritical, as her boss, who owns three fishing
shops, is
out stumping up and down the front range at TU seminars to get people
to
drive hundreds of miles to this river so she can charge $300 day to
guide
them. Fishing pressure, indeed.

Hypocrites are hypocrites. Whether they happen to be flyfishermen,
baitfishermen, catch and kill, catch and release is immaterial to that
fact.

Chuck Vance

Sorry but you're wrong. Read just about every other post here or pick
up any issue of R&R or Flyfishing magazine. The vast majority of
flyfishermen that I see and hear (keep in mind that I lived in the #1
flyfishing city in the world for more than a decade that gave me this
perspective, had a driftboat and the whole catastrophe) bash
relentlessly other anglers and angling techniques.

You really are crazy. Aside from an occasional light hearted jibe, I've
never seen anyone here bash other methods of fishing. Nor have I ever
encountered anyone in person who much gave a rat's ass. Your perspective is
a direct result of your own hallucinations, a habit of harrassing anyone you
see or hear of who doesn't agree with your psychotic delusions, and the fact
that you are a compulsive liar.

Throughout all the years you have insisted on your monomaniacal flogging of
this expired equine, you.....and dicklet.....are the only individuals we've
seen here who have consistently rejected every argument, idea, thought,
explanation, conjecture and fact presented by everyone else, without so much
as giving any of them a passing thought. dicklet, to give him his due, at
least has the virtue of consistentcy.....he simply rejects everything
eveyone says about anything.....even those who agree with him.

The "#1 flyfishing city in the world"? No ****? You lived in Gleason?

I'm just here to keep it real

Real? I live in a state in which the 15,000+ named lakes (we'll just
forget about all the others for now) and more than 10,000 miles of streams
are beaten to a froth for nine months of every year (the other three months
require drilling......which probably accounts each year for more fishing
man-hours than your miserable excuse for a state sees in a decade) by
millions of anglers and I have yet to meet so much as ONE hardcore catch and
release purist......let alone any who give a damn how you or anybody else
fishes. To be sure, there are a few who practice catch and release where
certain species are concerned (and no one has yet presented a creditable
argument to support the ludicrous notion that they shouldn't), but everyone
I've ever known in this state, or ever heard speak to the issue, allows at
least that he or she certainly would keep fish of some species under some
circumstances. The bottom line is that Wisconsin is like most places in the
U.S. in that the VAST majority will keep as many fish as they legally can,
and probably close to a majority keep many more than that. Catch and
release purists undoubtedly make up considerably less than one percent of
the fishing community at large.

Real? You truly are profoundly disturbed.

and to stick up for the rights of humans to exist on the
food chain and to keep the legacy of angling for food around for my
children's children.

You're a liar. All you care about is the vain hope that you will someday
shed your own guilt. It ain't gonna happen.

So, someone bashes bait fisherman, I'll be right there.

Well, dang, Tom Joad! Where you been all these years?

Someone says a negative word to me about having a fish on a
stringer or a stick to my face and I will press charges.

Press charges? See, the problem isn't simply that you're crazy.......you're
also stupid.

Wolfgang

[snip]

Try to keep up wolfman.

The "#1 flyfishing city in the world"? No ****? You lived in Gleason?

http://www.fieldandstream.com/articl...?ID=1000014252

Press charges? See, the problem isn't simply that you're crazy.......you're also stupid.

http://www.michigandnr.com/law/Repor...Week=6/27/1999

"CO Peggy Ruby obtained a warrant for angler harassment and CO Dave
Rock is investigating another case involving a subject who verbally
assaulting and throwing rocks at an angler. We have received an
unusually high number of these complaints this yea

All 50 states have laws protecting hunters and anglers from
harassment.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer
It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout.