Under the spreading chestnut tree....
 

On Nov 5, 2:39*am, DaveS wrote:
On Nov 4, 8:55*pm, Giles wrote:





On Nov 4, 1:52*pm, DaveS wrote:

I can plant some. I understand that they do ok into the southern BC
mainland down into Oregon.

Interesting. *I've heard and read virtually nothing about chestnut
plantings west of the Mississippi. *But it stands to reason that they
have been widely planted outside their native range, as our own
experience here in Curdistan attests. *Moreover, horticulturists in
general have always found it impossible to resist the temptation to
plant exotics......witness the fact that this is precisely how
Castanea dentata got into trouble in the first place......and
precisely why salvation still looms on the horizon.

I will try a few here in Pugetopolis, and a
few in a non-native hedge row over on the dryside (SE WA,)

C. dentata was preeminently the dominant species of the Appalachian
mountain chain, which is to say that it is naturally suited to a
regime of moderate elevation and a moist climate with moderate
temperatures. *That said, experience has shown that it is notoriously
unfussy with regard to growing conditions. *It does well in a
relatively wide range of soil types, moisture levels, temperature
ranges, and other variables. *It is also an extraordinarily fast
grower.....for a deciduous hardwood in a temperate climate. *It easily
outstrips its native competitors, oak, walnut, butternut, hickory,
maple, bass, etc. *Not quite as fast as aspens, some willows, and a
few others (including the monstrous exobiotic eucalypts) but easily
the fastest grower among the hardwoods with which it naturally
occured. *My friend, Larry, has a good few four year old trees (both
natives and hybrids) that are as much as ten to twelve feet tall and
are already producing viable seed. *His chestnuts in the twelve to
eighteen year class far exceed the growth of all the walnuts and oaks
they grow among. *One lovely eighteen year old specimen (from which we
harvested many nuts in the past few weeks) stands about thirty feet
tall and an astonishing 14 inches dbh, as compared to the twenty foot
height and 10 or inches dbh of the surrounding oaks and walnuts.

I think
there are some over in the older areas of Walla Walla settled before
the civil War.

Perhaps the same vintage, more or less, as the famed "forest" near
West Salem , Wi., allegedly planted by a returning Civil War veteran,
and which, incidentally, was also blight free until the 1980s when it
was discovered by scientists eager to study and save and who, not so
incidentally, almost certainly infected what had remained a pristine
and blight free reservoir with spores they brought in from already
infected areas.

I understand we are mostly blight free in the West.

For now.....perhaps. *But don't be too generous with gps coordinates.
Trout streams are impossible to keep secret precisely, if somewhat
quixotically, or ironically (or whatever .....ly *one prefers) because
too many people care. *Paradoxically, both the plight and potential
salvation of the American chestnut are inextricably linked to the fact
that nobody much gives a ****. *It really is a terribly delicate
balance.

Thanx

You're welcome. *So, how many you want (bearing in mind that there is
a considerable investment in varmint proofing)?

giles.

I'll be putting metal screen over the seeds till they sprout, then
cage. But Im not certain whether to grow them as protected seedlings,
then transplant with a cage into the hedgerow. Here the problem is
deer, and on the dryside deer and beaver. I have to plant the dryside
ponderosa at least in tubular 18" plastic and that is not very
effective so fence wire cages are really what work best, especially
for my apple trees. That means a lot fewer trees but bigger. All of
which means that I'll be growing then to seedlings at least, but more
probably 3-4 year olds.

As to the number of seeds . . . I'd like to end up with about 2 dozen
trees. So whatever you figure the germination rate etc. is, to yield
something like 24 or so.

Dave-

From my perspective, the major point of the exercise is to produce
more seed in order to plant more trees and thus help to maintain the
gene pool until such time as blight resistent strains ensure the
survival of the species. In order to produce viable seed, the trees
must be planted fairly close together, no more than a hundred feet
apart, because chestnuts do not self-pollinate and the pollen doesn't
travel far. Thus, given the limited supply of nuts, the best policy
is to do everything possible to assure that each seedling is given
it's best chance for survival. I think that, in general, direct
seeding in situ is probably the least stressful in that it eliminates
handling, differing soil types, changes in watering regime, etc. On
the other hand, direct seeding comes with its own set of
perils.....predation by critters that even plastic tubing and
screening can't keep out, the vagaries of weather, and a less than
100% germination rate. One way to help assure that a tree would
survive at each selected location is to plant several seeds and then
cull the excess. But this would require a lot of seeds to
spare.....which we don't have.

The seeds that Becky and I got from Larry last year were kept
refrigerated in small zip-lock sandwich bags. At some time in the
early winter, I think, Larry put some potting soil and damp sphagnum
moss in each bag of 6 or 8 seeds. In a few weeks the fertile nuts
sprouted in the bags. When we got ours in January or February a
rather stout root was visible protruding from each viable nut.
Obviously, this method eliminates the need to plant multiple seeds in
one location in the hope that at least one of them will germinate, and
the necessity of culling or transplanting in the event that more than
one does. But it makes the timing of direct planting more
problematic. Too early and lingering winter weather can kill them.
Too late and drying soils or whatever.....

We opted for potting and early development indoors in a sunny
location. The seedlings were put outside after the danger of a late
frost was past. Keeping them close to the house also eliminated the
need for traveling to some remote location for watering. However, we
lost 12 of our 14 seedlings to squirrels. The nut persists for long
after the roots, stems and leaves emerge. Part of the success of the
species can be explained by the fact that the store of food in the nut
continues to nourish the seedling for weeks after sprouting. But the
lingering food is a sore temptation to predators. Squirrels, mice,
turkeys, raccoons and various other species will dig them up and kill
the seedlings in the process long after one would think that danger
has past.

Distilling all this, I decided that I would follow Larry's protocol
and sprout the nuts in my refrigerator and then send out the live
seeds sometime in the winter with instructions on how best to care for
them on arrival at their new homes. But I've done some more reading
in the last couple of days and now I'm not so sure. One excellent
source full of information:

http://www.ppws.vt.edu/griffin/accf.html

suggests that the best method of propagation is to direct seed in situ
in October (as nature intended) when the nuts fall to the ground, but
this once again brings up the problem of germination rates and an
entire winter of exposure to the elements and predators. Besides,
it's too late for that now.

So.......

So, I guess it's up to you. I can send them now (more or less) and
let you deal with the dilemma however you see fit, or I can send them
out after stratification.

How's that for a short and definitive answer? :)

giles

Under the spreading chestnut tree....
 

Giles wrote:
On Nov 4, 8:55 pm, rw wrote:

Giles wrote:

On Nov 4, 7:47 am, rw wrote:

Giles wrote:

On Nov 4, 4:35 am, rw wrote:

Moron.

So.....you don't want any chestnuts?

g.

Imbecile.

You, of all people, really should take some of them and plant them.
After all, wouldn't it be nice to be remembered for
something.....anything.....more than just hating? :)

g.
the boy just WILL NOT learn!

Numb nuts.


Still, t's a good thing you've got hate, otherwise you'd have
absolutely nothing to live for. You owe me big. :)

g.

Poopy pants.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Under the spreading chestnut tree....
 

On Nov 5, 11:51*am, rw wrote:
Giles wrote:
On Nov 4, 8:55 pm, rw wrote:

Giles wrote:

On Nov 4, 7:47 am, rw wrote:

Giles wrote:

On Nov 4, 4:35 am, rw wrote:

Moron.

So.....you don't want any chestnuts?

g.

Imbecile.

You, of all people, really should take some of them and plant them.
After all, wouldn't it be nice to be remembered for
something.....anything.....more than just hating? * * * :)

g.
the boy just WILL NOT learn!

Numb nuts.

Still, t's a good thing you've got hate, otherwise you'd have
absolutely nothing to live for. *You owe me big. * * * :)

g.

Poopy pants.

Moron.

g.

Under the spreading chestnut tree....
 

On Nov 5, 7:12*am, jeff wrote:
Giles wrote:
On Nov 4, 7:50 am, jeff wrote:
Giles wrote:

Becky and I have about five hundred of them......the details of the
acquisition (which necessarily include yet another paean to the great
fundamental driving principle of the universe, coincidence) are fodder
for another time....to be provided to anyone who asks.....or who asks
for nuts. *Meanwhile, here they are, free for the asking ("free"
refering strictly to the cost of acquisition.....they may, over the
lifespan of the trees.....or yours, for that matter.....require some
small cost in care and attention).
So, who wants to save a specis?
giles
ok!!

i know a few acres on england branch in graham county that would like to
participate. *perhaps you guys can attend to the planting one month next
spring, or we can arrange suitable instructions for planting by one
lacking a green thumb, with seeds to be delivered before i make my next
pilgrimage?

jeff

Well strike me ****in' dumb and blind! *Graham county is as likely a
candidate for the ancient ancestral birthplace of the proto-American
Chestnut as any place on Earth.....and it never occurred to me! *What
better place to stage a resurrection?

Seeds are currently refrigerated, and will remain so through January.
Like so many other plants in "temperate" latitudes (why is it that
nobody ever talks about longitudes where climate is concerned?
Reykjavík *is considerably farther north than Fargo, and guess in
which place you'd rather spend a winter in a teepee or yurt or
whatthe****ever) the chestnut has evolved mechanisms for dealing with
prolonged cold spells (actually, biologists have long known that it
isn't the cold, per se, that troubles so many critters.....it's the
lack of liquid water.....or, drought, to speak in the vernacular, that
makes winter such a bitch in places where temperatures hovering below
zero celsius reign for months at a time). These mechanisms have worked
very well (we know this because all these multifarious species have
survived.....Q.E.D., ainna?) but the law of unintended consequences
(like the great fundamental organizing principle of the
universe.....coincidence) is inexorable and exacts a heavy
toll......the fukkers CAN'T reproduce without having their nuts (so to
speak) frozen (more or less) for a few months! *HAH! *Bottom line is
that seeds won't be ready until after they have cooled their jets for
a couple/three months and then get slowly humidified in a refrigerated
bath of moist dirt and sphagnum moss for another couple/three weeks.
In short, shipping will take place in early February.....more or
less. *Detailed instructions for care and feeding for the next couple
of years will accompany each shipment........this ain't a "benign
neglect" kinda proposition, given that the former dominance of the
species was dependent as much on profligate reproduction (which we
cannot match with a few measly hundreds of nuts) as on anything else.

How many ya want? * * * :)

giles

i've never seen a live chestnut tree, or, if i did, i didn't recognize
it as such. *so...i figure 10 ought to give me and england branch enough
chances, but i'll defer to your wisdom about such things. *i want to
plant a few in the open at the edges of my pastured areas, and some on a
forested ridge where they are unlikely to be seen or trampeled upon. *i
have a guy looking after the pasture areas (mowing, weed-eating) and i
think he will be an enthusiastic participant as well. i can relay any
instructions you provide. thanks!

jeff-

O.k., I"ve got you down for 10. See my response to Dave at around
11:30 today for some hopelessly muddled ruminations on how we should
best proceed. I iposted there a url to a site full of good
information. I include it here again:

http://www.ppws.vt.edu/griffin/accf.html

I'd appreciate it if you (and anyone else who's interested in getting
some chestnuts, whether or not you've already stated that interest
here or via email) would send me an email with "Chestnut order" in the
subject line and the quantity desired and your mailing address in the
body. I'll create a folder to drop them all into. Otherwise I know
that I'll mess it up.

giles

Under the spreading chestnut tree....
 

Giles wrote:

O.k., I"ve got you down for 10. See my response to Dave at around
11:30 today for some hopelessly muddled ruminations on how we should
best proceed. I iposted there a url to a site full of good
information. I include it here again:

http://www.ppws.vt.edu/griffin/accf.html

I'd appreciate it if you (and anyone else who's interested in getting
some chestnuts, whether or not you've already stated that interest
here or via email) would send me an email with "Chestnut order" in the
subject line and the quantity desired and your mailing address in the
body. I'll create a folder to drop them all into. Otherwise I know
that I'll mess it up.

giles

wow...reading that vt site revealed and emphasized how naive i am about
such stuff. i've a new admiration for chestnuts and those who seek to
restore them... i fear i'm unworthy of trust for such an endeavor.
but...if you provide explicit instruction, rachel (as trustworthy as any
i've known) and i will do our best. if we can begin the seed/nut in a
sheltered environment at our home, then plant a growing tree in graham
county later, that might have best prospect for success.

jeff

Under the spreading chestnut tree....
 

On Nov 5, 9:37*am, Giles wrote:

"Stratify then send" sounds like the best way to go. Will do the Email
thing. Thanx
Dave

Under the spreading chestnut tree....
 

On Nov 5, 3:43*pm, jeff wrote:


wow...reading that vt site revealed and emphasized how naive i am about
such stuff. i've a new admiration for chestnuts and those who seek to
restore them... i fear i'm unworthy of trust for such an endeavor.
but...if you provide explicit instruction, rachel (as trustworthy as any
i've known) and i will do our best. *if we can begin the seed/nut in a
sheltered environment at our home, then plant a growing tree in graham
county later, that might have best prospect for success.

jeff

Becky shares my utmost confidence in yours and Rachel's ability to
provide for her precious babies. And we agree that caring for them in
your home before casting them before the cruel fates in Graham county
is the wisest course of action. :)

giles

Under the spreading chestnut tree....
 

On Nov 5, 4:31*pm, DaveS wrote:
On Nov 5, 9:37*am, Giles wrote:

"Stratify then send" sounds like the best way to go.

Check.

Will do the Email thing.

Most excellent.

Thanx
Dave

You're welcome.

giles