Question about loop leaders?
 

On 15 Oct 2004 20:55:54 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.



Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.



Peter

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Question about loop leaders?
 

riverman wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
m...

Dave LaCourse wrote:

The San Juan clave: you enjoyed fishing the Kiddie Hole for beat up old
trout
that didn't fight when they were hooked. They had been caught so many
times
they were little more than pets. But, there you were, in the middle of
them,
doing the San Juan Shuffle. Pathetic.

I have a photograph of you fishing in the Kiddie Hole. I think you were
trying to snag floaters.



Hey, whats wrong with the Kiddie Hole? Charlie Choc and I started there our
second day at the Juan this summer, and for about an hour we were the only
people out of about 10 who passed through who caught any fish at all, and we
were hauling them in. It was a blast! I have fond memories of that spot.

Ask the ****heel. Virtually everyone who fishes the San Juan makes at
least a few casts at the Kiddie Hole. Some people camp out there all day.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Question about loop leaders?
 

riverman wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
m...

Dave LaCourse wrote:

The San Juan clave: you enjoyed fishing the Kiddie Hole for beat up old
trout
that didn't fight when they were hooked. They had been caught so many
times
they were little more than pets. But, there you were, in the middle of
them,
doing the San Juan Shuffle. Pathetic.

I have a photograph of you fishing in the Kiddie Hole. I think you were
trying to snag floaters.



Hey, whats wrong with the Kiddie Hole? Charlie Choc and I started there our
second day at the Juan this summer, and for about an hour we were the only
people out of about 10 who passed through who caught any fish at all, and we
were hauling them in. It was a blast! I have fond memories of that spot.

Ask the ****heel. Virtually everyone who fishes the San Juan makes at
least a few casts at the Kiddie Hole. Some people camp out there all day.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Question about loop leaders?
 

riverman wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
m...

Dave LaCourse wrote:

The San Juan clave: you enjoyed fishing the Kiddie Hole for beat up old
trout
that didn't fight when they were hooked. They had been caught so many
times
they were little more than pets. But, there you were, in the middle of
them,
doing the San Juan Shuffle. Pathetic.

I have a photograph of you fishing in the Kiddie Hole. I think you were
trying to snag floaters.



Hey, whats wrong with the Kiddie Hole? Charlie Choc and I started there our
second day at the Juan this summer, and for about an hour we were the only
people out of about 10 who passed through who caught any fish at all, and we
were hauling them in. It was a blast! I have fond memories of that spot.

Ask the ****heel. Virtually everyone who fishes the San Juan makes at
least a few casts at the Kiddie Hole. Some people camp out there all day.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Question about loop leaders?
 

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:16:46 -0400, Peter Charles
wrote:

On 15 Oct 2004 20:55:54 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.



Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...

TC,
R



Peter

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Question about loop leaders?
 

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:16:46 -0400, Peter Charles
wrote:

On 15 Oct 2004 20:55:54 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.



Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...

TC,
R



Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Question about loop leaders?
 

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:48:53 GMT, wrote:

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:16:46 -0400, Peter Charles
wrote:

On 15 Oct 2004 20:55:54 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.



Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...


Larger is not always heavier -- low water salmon hooks are quite light
for their size. A full dressed fly on them is quite wind resistant
without a lot of mass. Anyway, yesterday while practicing, I was
casting a "fluffy" (egg yarn on the end of the tippet) into a stiff
wind and it turned over OK.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Question about loop leaders?
 

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:48:53 GMT, wrote:

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:16:46 -0400, Peter Charles
wrote:

On 15 Oct 2004 20:55:54 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

Stev writes:

I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential?

I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the
leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a
perfection loop.



Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...


Larger is not always heavier -- low water salmon hooks are quite light
for their size. A full dressed fly on them is quite wind resistant
without a lot of mass. Anyway, yesterday while practicing, I was
casting a "fluffy" (egg yarn on the end of the tippet) into a stiff
wind and it turned over OK.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Question about loop leaders?
 

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:48:53 GMT, wrote:


Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...


Larger is not always heavier -- low water salmon hooks are quite light
for their size. A full dressed fly on them is quite wind resistant
without a lot of mass. Anyway, yesterday while practicing, I was
casting a "fluffy" (egg yarn on the end of the tippet) into a stiff
wind and it turned over OK.

Hmm, a corollary to rejecting the Hinge Theory then might be to reject the
philosophy of not jumping tippet weights too drastically, then. The Hinge
Theory (as I recently gathered) isn't saying that the two loops will cause a
hinge where they interact (that is BS, imho), but its saying that if you
don't seat your line deeply enough into the base of the loop, that few
centimeters of flimsy material will make a 360-degree hinge and screw up
your casts.

The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?

--riverman

Question about loop leaders?
 

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:48:53 GMT, wrote:


Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...


Larger is not always heavier -- low water salmon hooks are quite light
for their size. A full dressed fly on them is quite wind resistant
without a lot of mass. Anyway, yesterday while practicing, I was
casting a "fluffy" (egg yarn on the end of the tippet) into a stiff
wind and it turned over OK.

Hmm, a corollary to rejecting the Hinge Theory then might be to reject the
philosophy of not jumping tippet weights too drastically, then. The Hinge
Theory (as I recently gathered) isn't saying that the two loops will cause a
hinge where they interact (that is BS, imho), but its saying that if you
don't seat your line deeply enough into the base of the loop, that few
centimeters of flimsy material will make a 360-degree hinge and screw up
your casts.

The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?

--riverman

Question about loop leaders?
 

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:48:53 GMT, wrote:


Heavy mono and loops or braided loops with the fly line tip pushed
into the overlapped section and the nail knotted to the fly line
(never trust the heat shrink tube). I use one nail knot right at the
end of the braid for trout and two nail knots for heavier fish.

If a loop system, on the end of a spey line, can turn over a 15' mono
leader and big fly, when cast into the wind, then the hinge theory is
truly BS. It does and it is.

Um, I'm not defending the "hinge theory," but assuming it has some
merit, it would be easier to present a larger (and heavier) fly...


Larger is not always heavier -- low water salmon hooks are quite light
for their size. A full dressed fly on them is quite wind resistant
without a lot of mass. Anyway, yesterday while practicing, I was
casting a "fluffy" (egg yarn on the end of the tippet) into a stiff
wind and it turned over OK.

Hmm, a corollary to rejecting the Hinge Theory then might be to reject the
philosophy of not jumping tippet weights too drastically, then. The Hinge
Theory (as I recently gathered) isn't saying that the two loops will cause a
hinge where they interact (that is BS, imho), but its saying that if you
don't seat your line deeply enough into the base of the loop, that few
centimeters of flimsy material will make a 360-degree hinge and screw up
your casts.

The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?

--riverman

Question about loop leaders?
 

rw writes:

Ask the ****heel. Virtually everyone who fishes the San Juan makes at
least a few casts at the Kiddie Hole. Some people camp out there all day.

I caught one fish at the Kiddie Hole and quit fishing because of the condition
of the fish. It's mouth was torn to shreds. Every fish I saw caught was the
same way. Where do you think the San Juan Shuffle started? You would normally
nymph up stream, but you and your ilk stand at the pool, shuffling your feet
and feeding a nymph downstream. Hell, that's not fly fishing. That's nowhere
near a sport. You forget, Steve, I've seen you fish. d;o)

Dave The Repulsive Pirate
(Sorry, Ken. Your day will come again.)

Question about loop leaders?
 

rw writes:

Ask the ****heel. Virtually everyone who fishes the San Juan makes at
least a few casts at the Kiddie Hole. Some people camp out there all day.

I caught one fish at the Kiddie Hole and quit fishing because of the condition
of the fish. It's mouth was torn to shreds. Every fish I saw caught was the
same way. Where do you think the San Juan Shuffle started? You would normally
nymph up stream, but you and your ilk stand at the pool, shuffling your feet
and feeding a nymph downstream. Hell, that's not fly fishing. That's nowhere
near a sport. You forget, Steve, I've seen you fish. d;o)

Dave The Repulsive Pirate
(Sorry, Ken. Your day will come again.)

Question about loop leaders?
 

rw writes:

You're a bragging, double crossing ****heel, Dave, and I'm sick of it.
When you insult me for something as ridiculous as stating why I dislike
loops, I'm coming back with both barrels.

What I have stated is true. You say *I* lured Warren to the clave. It wasn't
my idea. It was someone else who asked me to sell chances on Zimmerman's rod
(the one I purchased from .... I forget his name). I was going to give it away
at Penns, but someone (Willi?) suggest I sell chances to win it and use that
money to help pay Warren's fare. I did that. And lots of folks got to meet
Warren. What have you done lately to help *anyone*. I doubt very little.
And, it ain't bragging if it's true. Besides, you brought it up, not me.

Dave The Repulsive Pirate

Question about loop leaders?
 

rw writes:

You're a bragging, double crossing ****heel, Dave, and I'm sick of it.
When you insult me for something as ridiculous as stating why I dislike
loops, I'm coming back with both barrels.

What I have stated is true. You say *I* lured Warren to the clave. It wasn't
my idea. It was someone else who asked me to sell chances on Zimmerman's rod
(the one I purchased from .... I forget his name). I was going to give it away
at Penns, but someone (Willi?) suggest I sell chances to win it and use that
money to help pay Warren's fare. I did that. And lots of folks got to meet
Warren. What have you done lately to help *anyone*. I doubt very little.
And, it ain't bragging if it's true. Besides, you brought it up, not me.

Dave The Repulsive Pirate

Question about loop leaders?
 

rw writes:

You're a bragging, double crossing ****heel, Dave, and I'm sick of it.
When you insult me for something as ridiculous as stating why I dislike
loops, I'm coming back with both barrels.

What I have stated is true. You say *I* lured Warren to the clave. It wasn't
my idea. It was someone else who asked me to sell chances on Zimmerman's rod
(the one I purchased from .... I forget his name). I was going to give it away
at Penns, but someone (Willi?) suggest I sell chances to win it and use that
money to help pay Warren's fare. I did that. And lots of folks got to meet
Warren. What have you done lately to help *anyone*. I doubt very little.
And, it ain't bragging if it's true. Besides, you brought it up, not me.

Dave The Repulsive Pirate

Question about loop leaders?
 

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:26:23 +0100, "riverman"
wrote:



Hmm, a corollary to rejecting the Hinge Theory then might be to reject the
philosophy of not jumping tippet weights too drastically, then. The Hinge
Theory (as I recently gathered) isn't saying that the two loops will cause a
hinge where they interact (that is BS, imho), but its saying that if you
don't seat your line deeply enough into the base of the loop, that few
centimeters of flimsy material will make a 360-degree hinge and screw up
your casts.

The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?

--riverman


Any radical change will cause some sort of hinging -- whether or not
the hinge will cause a problem is another matter. My spey line
leaders are actually quite light, starting with 20 lb., then 15 lb.
down to 10 lb. (Maxima Ultragreen). The usual formula is 60%, 20%,
20%. Some anglers are just using a single piece of very long, light
mono -- not an approach I'd use.

Keep in mind that your leader/fly has some mass, some aerodynamic
drag, and some stiffness. A short leader/small fly won't cause a
poorly assembled braided loop to hinge as it doesn't take much energy
to turn over. Try the same thing with a 15' spey leader and fly, and
watch the hinge. Still, the fly gets out there so it's more form than
function. The biggest worry with a long leader, is that the whole
affair will run out of gas when fired into the wind. A poor loop will
do that to you since it can't transfer the energy to the long leader.
But to do that, the braided loop would have to be poorly fitted,
leaving a long, limp section and the fly line inserted into only an
inch or so. If there's a 1/4" or so braid without fly line, it won't
matter, but a couple of inches would.

Your test is a good one. I worry more about energy transfer than
hinging so well assembled loops make the difference.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Question about loop leaders?
 

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:26:23 +0100, "riverman"
wrote:



Hmm, a corollary to rejecting the Hinge Theory then might be to reject the
philosophy of not jumping tippet weights too drastically, then. The Hinge
Theory (as I recently gathered) isn't saying that the two loops will cause a
hinge where they interact (that is BS, imho), but its saying that if you
don't seat your line deeply enough into the base of the loop, that few
centimeters of flimsy material will make a 360-degree hinge and screw up
your casts.

The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?

--riverman


Any radical change will cause some sort of hinging -- whether or not
the hinge will cause a problem is another matter. My spey line
leaders are actually quite light, starting with 20 lb., then 15 lb.
down to 10 lb. (Maxima Ultragreen). The usual formula is 60%, 20%,
20%. Some anglers are just using a single piece of very long, light
mono -- not an approach I'd use.

Keep in mind that your leader/fly has some mass, some aerodynamic
drag, and some stiffness. A short leader/small fly won't cause a
poorly assembled braided loop to hinge as it doesn't take much energy
to turn over. Try the same thing with a 15' spey leader and fly, and
watch the hinge. Still, the fly gets out there so it's more form than
function. The biggest worry with a long leader, is that the whole
affair will run out of gas when fired into the wind. A poor loop will
do that to you since it can't transfer the energy to the long leader.
But to do that, the braided loop would have to be poorly fitted,
leaving a long, limp section and the fly line inserted into only an
inch or so. If there's a 1/4" or so braid without fly line, it won't
matter, but a couple of inches would.

Your test is a good one. I worry more about energy transfer than
hinging so well assembled loops make the difference.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Question about loop leaders?
 

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:26:23 +0100, "riverman"
wrote:



Hmm, a corollary to rejecting the Hinge Theory then might be to reject the
philosophy of not jumping tippet weights too drastically, then. The Hinge
Theory (as I recently gathered) isn't saying that the two loops will cause a
hinge where they interact (that is BS, imho), but its saying that if you
don't seat your line deeply enough into the base of the loop, that few
centimeters of flimsy material will make a 360-degree hinge and screw up
your casts.

The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?

--riverman


Any radical change will cause some sort of hinging -- whether or not
the hinge will cause a problem is another matter. My spey line
leaders are actually quite light, starting with 20 lb., then 15 lb.
down to 10 lb. (Maxima Ultragreen). The usual formula is 60%, 20%,
20%. Some anglers are just using a single piece of very long, light
mono -- not an approach I'd use.

Keep in mind that your leader/fly has some mass, some aerodynamic
drag, and some stiffness. A short leader/small fly won't cause a
poorly assembled braided loop to hinge as it doesn't take much energy
to turn over. Try the same thing with a 15' spey leader and fly, and
watch the hinge. Still, the fly gets out there so it's more form than
function. The biggest worry with a long leader, is that the whole
affair will run out of gas when fired into the wind. A poor loop will
do that to you since it can't transfer the energy to the long leader.
But to do that, the braided loop would have to be poorly fitted,
leaving a long, limp section and the fly line inserted into only an
inch or so. If there's a 1/4" or so braid without fly line, it won't
matter, but a couple of inches would.

Your test is a good one. I worry more about energy transfer than
hinging so well assembled loops make the difference.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Question about loop leaders?
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:

What have you done lately to help *anyone*. I doubt very little.

You have absolutely no idea.

And, it ain't bragging if it's true.

I rest my case.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Question about loop leaders?
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:

What have you done lately to help *anyone*. I doubt very little.

You have absolutely no idea.

And, it ain't bragging if it's true.

I rest my case.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Question about loop leaders?
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:

What have you done lately to help *anyone*. I doubt very little.

You have absolutely no idea.

And, it ain't bragging if it's true.

I rest my case.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Question about loop leaders?
 

On 17 Oct 2004 16:52:17 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote:

but you and your ilk stand at the pool, shuffling your feet
and feeding a nymph downstream.

Myron and I didn't fish that way, and in fact I didn't see *anyone* doing the
"shuffle". We only fished the kiddie hole for an hour or so and then moved on
up river, though, so maybe the shufflers came later in the day. I only saw one
fish that looked a little beat up, and that was on the flats above the hole.
FWIW
--
Charlie...

Question about loop leaders?
 

On 17 Oct 2004 16:52:17 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote:

but you and your ilk stand at the pool, shuffling your feet
and feeding a nymph downstream.

Myron and I didn't fish that way, and in fact I didn't see *anyone* doing the
"shuffle". We only fished the kiddie hole for an hour or so and then moved on
up river, though, so maybe the shufflers came later in the day. I only saw one
fish that looked a little beat up, and that was on the flats above the hole.
FWIW
--
Charlie...

Question about loop leaders?
 

On 17 Oct 2004 16:52:17 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote:

but you and your ilk stand at the pool, shuffling your feet
and feeding a nymph downstream.

Myron and I didn't fish that way, and in fact I didn't see *anyone* doing the
"shuffle". We only fished the kiddie hole for an hour or so and then moved on
up river, though, so maybe the shufflers came later in the day. I only saw one
fish that looked a little beat up, and that was on the flats above the hole.
FWIW
--
Charlie...

Question about loop leaders?
 

Wayne Harrison wrote:
snip
to gratuitously publish one's private opinion of another person's
shortcomings, true or not, is cowardly, and totally devoid of class.

You've just described Wolfgang to a T. Still, I miss the nasty little
jerk and wish you hadn't run him off with your pollyanna platitudes.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Question about loop leaders?
 

Wayne Harrison wrote:
snip
to gratuitously publish one's private opinion of another person's
shortcomings, true or not, is cowardly, and totally devoid of class.

You've just described Wolfgang to a T. Still, I miss the nasty little
jerk and wish you hadn't run him off with your pollyanna platitudes.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Question about loop leaders?
 

riverman wrote:



The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?


For deep/heavy water nymphing, I think that dropping down a number of
sizes, along with the hinging effect, has some real advantages. If you
go from a short heavier leader butt straight to a 6 to 10 foot piece of
tippet, you are going to be able to sink your fly much easier and there
will be less resistance from the current. This will allow you to use
less weight, will make for a more drag free drift and will give you
better contact with the fly.

Willi

Question about loop leaders?
 

Wayne Harrison wrote:
to gratuitously publish one's private opinion of another person's
shortcomings, true or not, is cowardly, and totally devoid of class.

I suggest you look at Dave's post that started this ****ing contest.

As far as posting opinions about another person's shortcoming on ROFF,
you have to be joking.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Question about loop leaders?
 

Wayne Harrison wrote:
to gratuitously publish one's private opinion of another person's
shortcomings, true or not, is cowardly, and totally devoid of class.

I suggest you look at Dave's post that started this ****ing contest.

As far as posting opinions about another person's shortcoming on ROFF,
you have to be joking.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Question about loop leaders?
 

Wayne Harrison wrote:
to gratuitously publish one's private opinion of another person's
shortcomings, true or not, is cowardly, and totally devoid of class.

I suggest you look at Dave's post that started this ****ing contest.

As far as posting opinions about another person's shortcoming on ROFF,
you have to be joking.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Question about loop leaders?
 

Charlie Choc wrote:

On 17 Oct 2004 16:52:17 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote:


but you and your ilk stand at the pool, shuffling your feet
and feeding a nymph downstream.


Myron and I didn't fish that way, and in fact I didn't see *anyone* doing the
"shuffle". We only fished the kiddie hole for an hour or so and then moved on
up river, though, so maybe the shufflers came later in the day. I only saw one
fish that looked a little beat up, and that was on the flats above the hole.
FWIW

It's merely another lie from the ****heel. I'd love to put that photo of
LaCourse fishing the Kiddie Hole on the Web, because it's pretty damn
funny. It's so funny that he called me and demanded that I remove it.
Unfortunately, my ISP's upload connection is broken. If LaCourse
motivates me sufficiently, I'll use a friend's connection.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Question about loop leaders?
 

Charlie Choc wrote:

On 17 Oct 2004 16:52:17 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote:


but you and your ilk stand at the pool, shuffling your feet
and feeding a nymph downstream.


Myron and I didn't fish that way, and in fact I didn't see *anyone* doing the
"shuffle". We only fished the kiddie hole for an hour or so and then moved on
up river, though, so maybe the shufflers came later in the day. I only saw one
fish that looked a little beat up, and that was on the flats above the hole.
FWIW

It's merely another lie from the ****heel. I'd love to put that photo of
LaCourse fishing the Kiddie Hole on the Web, because it's pretty damn
funny. It's so funny that he called me and demanded that I remove it.
Unfortunately, my ISP's upload connection is broken. If LaCourse
motivates me sufficiently, I'll use a friend's connection.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Question about loop leaders?
 

Charlie Choc wrote:

On 17 Oct 2004 16:52:17 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote:


but you and your ilk stand at the pool, shuffling your feet
and feeding a nymph downstream.


Myron and I didn't fish that way, and in fact I didn't see *anyone* doing the
"shuffle". We only fished the kiddie hole for an hour or so and then moved on
up river, though, so maybe the shufflers came later in the day. I only saw one
fish that looked a little beat up, and that was on the flats above the hole.
FWIW

It's merely another lie from the ****heel. I'd love to put that photo of
LaCourse fishing the Kiddie Hole on the Web, because it's pretty damn
funny. It's so funny that he called me and demanded that I remove it.
Unfortunately, my ISP's upload connection is broken. If LaCourse
motivates me sufficiently, I'll use a friend's connection.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Question about loop leaders?
 

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:05:55 -0600, Willi & Sue
wrote:

riverman wrote:



The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?


For deep/heavy water nymphing, I think that dropping down a number of
sizes, along with the hinging effect, has some real advantages. If you
go from a short heavier leader butt straight to a 6 to 10 foot piece of
tippet, you are going to be able to sink your fly much easier and there
will be less resistance from the current. This will allow you to use
less weight, will make for a more drag free drift and will give you
better contact with the fly.

Willi



Quite agree, I use dramatic size differences in nymphing as well --
however I see this as a special case. Bobbers, weighted flies, and/or
splitshot change the dynamics so leader construction isn't of the same
concern.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Question about loop leaders?
 

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:05:55 -0600, Willi & Sue
wrote:

riverman wrote:



The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?


For deep/heavy water nymphing, I think that dropping down a number of
sizes, along with the hinging effect, has some real advantages. If you
go from a short heavier leader butt straight to a 6 to 10 foot piece of
tippet, you are going to be able to sink your fly much easier and there
will be less resistance from the current. This will allow you to use
less weight, will make for a more drag free drift and will give you
better contact with the fly.

Willi



Quite agree, I use dramatic size differences in nymphing as well --
however I see this as a special case. Bobbers, weighted flies, and/or
splitshot change the dynamics so leader construction isn't of the same
concern.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Question about loop leaders?
 

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:05:55 -0600, Willi & Sue
wrote:

riverman wrote:



The philosophy of not skipping too many tippet weights is supposed to be for
the same reason. I learned that, when you tie on a tippet, to push the two
different sides together and make the tippet curl in a section including the
knot. If the weights are not too far apart, the two pieces will both curve
and you'll have a nice semicircle. If one is too thin, then it will 'hinge'
at the knot, and the result is that the tippet won't turn over correctly. Is
this also BS?


For deep/heavy water nymphing, I think that dropping down a number of
sizes, along with the hinging effect, has some real advantages. If you
go from a short heavier leader butt straight to a 6 to 10 foot piece of
tippet, you are going to be able to sink your fly much easier and there
will be less resistance from the current. This will allow you to use
less weight, will make for a more drag free drift and will give you
better contact with the fly.

Willi



Quite agree, I use dramatic size differences in nymphing as well --
however I see this as a special case. Bobbers, weighted flies, and/or
splitshot change the dynamics so leader construction isn't of the same
concern.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Question about loop leaders?
 

Charlie Choc writes:

Myron and I didn't fish that way, and in fact I didn't see *anyone* doing the
"shuffle". We only fished the kiddie hole for an hour or so and then moved on
up river, though, so maybe the shufflers came later in the day. I only saw
one
fish that looked a little beat up, and that was on the flats above the hole.
FWIW

I can only tell you what I saw, Charlie. Two guys were standing at the head of
the pool and they were fishing nymphs down-stream. Their feet were moving, and
sometimes one would cast in front of the other. Every fish I saw taken from
the pool that day was horribly scarred from too many hook-ups. The one rainbow
I took, casting up stream with a nymph, was the most deformed fish I have ever
seen. I stopped fishing the hole after that. The same was true of fishing the
flats above the pool. The fish gathered around your feet feeding on the larvae
kicked up from the bottom as you moved. Some folks thought it ok to fish that
way. I thought it abhorrent, especially when the fish caught revealed scars
and torn lips. That's not fly fishing.

I moved to the current with Bruce Hopper and caught some decent fish, none of
them with lip sores. They were more difficult to catch, so I guess that's why
more people didn't fish the currents.

Question about loop leaders?
 

Charlie Choc writes:

Myron and I didn't fish that way, and in fact I didn't see *anyone* doing the
"shuffle". We only fished the kiddie hole for an hour or so and then moved on
up river, though, so maybe the shufflers came later in the day. I only saw
one
fish that looked a little beat up, and that was on the flats above the hole.
FWIW

I can only tell you what I saw, Charlie. Two guys were standing at the head of
the pool and they were fishing nymphs down-stream. Their feet were moving, and
sometimes one would cast in front of the other. Every fish I saw taken from
the pool that day was horribly scarred from too many hook-ups. The one rainbow
I took, casting up stream with a nymph, was the most deformed fish I have ever
seen. I stopped fishing the hole after that. The same was true of fishing the
flats above the pool. The fish gathered around your feet feeding on the larvae
kicked up from the bottom as you moved. Some folks thought it ok to fish that
way. I thought it abhorrent, especially when the fish caught revealed scars
and torn lips. That's not fly fishing.

I moved to the current with Bruce Hopper and caught some decent fish, none of
them with lip sores. They were more difficult to catch, so I guess that's why
more people didn't fish the currents.

Question about loop leaders?
 

Charlie Choc writes:

Myron and I didn't fish that way, and in fact I didn't see *anyone* doing the
"shuffle". We only fished the kiddie hole for an hour or so and then moved on
up river, though, so maybe the shufflers came later in the day. I only saw
one
fish that looked a little beat up, and that was on the flats above the hole.
FWIW

I can only tell you what I saw, Charlie. Two guys were standing at the head of
the pool and they were fishing nymphs down-stream. Their feet were moving, and
sometimes one would cast in front of the other. Every fish I saw taken from
the pool that day was horribly scarred from too many hook-ups. The one rainbow
I took, casting up stream with a nymph, was the most deformed fish I have ever
seen. I stopped fishing the hole after that. The same was true of fishing the
flats above the pool. The fish gathered around your feet feeding on the larvae
kicked up from the bottom as you moved. Some folks thought it ok to fish that
way. I thought it abhorrent, especially when the fish caught revealed scars
and torn lips. That's not fly fishing.

I moved to the current with Bruce Hopper and caught some decent fish, none of
them with lip sores. They were more difficult to catch, so I guess that's why
more people didn't fish the currents.