Carp
 

"Rodney Long" wrote in message
...
Richard Eklund wrote:


Yes they tend to disturb the bottom while feeding but found they would
survive in waters that would not support a lot of other more desirable
fish.


Carp "make" the waters so the more desirable fish can't survive

Carp sure kept my interest in fishing as a kid in NY who had only a
bicycle
to get anywhere. Everything has its place.

I AGREE 1000%,, carp's place is Asia


Wrong.
Carp are native to Europe and Asia.
The carp we are stuck with here in the U.S. came from Europe.
I've seen whole carp being sold in Paris fishmarkets.

Carp
 

Harold wrote:


Wrong.
Carp are native to Europe and Asia.
The carp we are stuck with here in the U.S. came from Europe.
I've seen whole carp being sold in Paris fishmarkets.

WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carp were introduced to Europe, from Asia, about 500 years ago
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com

Carp
 

"Rodney Long" wrote in message
...
Harold wrote:


Wrong.
Carp are native to Europe and Asia.
The carp we are stuck with here in the U.S. came from Europe.
I've seen whole carp being sold in Paris fishmarkets.

WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carp were introduced to Europe, from Asia, about 500 years ago
--
Rodney Long

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Common Carp originated in CENTRAL ASIA (That's between Asia and Europe)
and spread East to Asia and West to Europe.

"Central Asia is the original home of the carp. They spread eastward to
China and Japan,
and westward into Europe by way of Greece and Rome."

http://www.cnykoi.com/history/main.asp

Carp
 

"Diamond Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:46:36 -0600, Rodney Long
wrote:
Harold wrote:
Wrong.
Carp are native to Europe and Asia.
The carp we are stuck with here in the U.S. came from Europe.
I've seen whole carp being sold in Paris fishmarkets.

WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carp were introduced to Europe, from Asia, about 500 years ago

You guys are talking about the common grass carp, aren't you?
What about those new fangled Asian carp that are supposedly screwing up
the Mississippi and Missouri rivers? From what I've read about those,
they'll
do more damage here in 5 years than the grass carp has done since it's
been
here (USA). Yes, no ,maybe??

No. We are talking about the Common Carp, the fat brown slob fish with the
two barbels
that were introduced to the US in the 1800s. The basic ingredient for
Hungarian Carp with Paprika,
Gefilite Fish and Whole fried Chinese Carp.

For some reason we label a slew of fish all members of the carp family as
"carp" causing
mass confusion. The Grass Carp (which the Chinese call Grass Fish cause it
feeds on aquatic plants
and algae) and the Black Carp (which they call Blue Fish which feeds on
snails and mollusks)
don't look like the common carp.
Grass Carp were deliberately introduced in many states as a means to control
algae growth.
In some cases they were triploid so that they would not keep reproducing.
The Bighead Carp and Silver Carp really don't look like carp at all (more
like a huge shad with a
weird face), don't suck food off the bottom (they feed on plankton) are the
ones getting the news coverage
now. All these fish are edible and are used as food on the asian mainland
and southeast asia.
Other than the Common Carp and Grass Carp, the others were not deliberate
introductions and do
pose a potential threat to our native species and habitat. However as can be
expected, the extent of the threat
is largely speculation because these non-native species haven't been here
long enough to have
caused damage, in the way that the common carp's habit of digging up the
bottom has been studied over
so many years.

Carp
 

Harold wrote:



WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Common Carp originated in CENTRAL ASIA (That's between Asia and Europe)
and spread East to Asia and West to Europe.


It spread through man, placing it in the waters




"Central Asia is the original home of the carp. They spread eastward to
China and Japan,
and westward into Europe by way of Greece and Rome."

By "man" introducing it

"Carp originated in China and spread throughout Asia and Europe as an
ornamental and aquaculture species."

http://www.affa.gov.au/content/outpu...EC2BF6E44EB30B



--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com

Carp
 

"Rodney Long" wrote in message
...
Harold wrote:



WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Common Carp originated in CENTRAL ASIA (That's between Asia and Europe)
and spread East to Asia and West to Europe.


It spread through man, placing it in the waters




"Central Asia is the original home of the carp. They spread eastward to
China and Japan,
and westward into Europe by way of Greece and Rome."

By "man" introducing it

"Carp originated in China and spread throughout Asia and Europe as an
ornamental and aquaculture species."


http://www.affa.gov.au/content/outpu...EC2BF6E44EB30B


Looks like we finally agree on one thing. Yes, we humans are the ones who
introduced this fish
all over the world. They reproduce in mass numbers, eat just about anything
on the bottom, can live
in muddy oxygen poor waters, and can provide lots of cheap protein.
But obviously, an over abundance of them is a serious threat to both native
species
and habitat. In truth rather than hating the carp we ought to be hating the
idiot who brought them
over in the first place.
We live in a world where lunatics (like PETA) are trying to elimate fishing
alltogether, calling
those of us who fish "killers".
Advocating the killing of every carp you catch like it's some sort of a
crusade simply provides fuel
for these lunatics. The state DNRs have a responsibility to manage the
populations and distributions.
If they deem it necessary to kill everything in a body of water to contain
any given species then so be it.
As a hunter I wouldn't even think of shooting anything that I wasn't going
to eat. As a fisherman, I don't
believe killing fish I catch, especially mutilating them to vent my anger in
some errant direction does much
to help anyone. If States ran programs where you could bring in your carp
catch to any fishing license vendor
and the state paid a reward, per pound, per fish, whatever, this would help
immesely.

The common carp is in fact an edible food fish and we Americans have a very
serious problem with
prejudice towards certain species. Until 15 years ago we weren't even eating
monkfish, simply tossing them
away as a "trash fish" not knowing that it's a prized food fish in Europe.
Eventually the same thing will happen
to the Sea Robin.The prejudice we have towards the common carp is frankly,
absurd.
As responsible fishermen who care about our native species and habitants we
should be encouraging the use
of carp as a resouce. This, more than anything else can reduce their numbers
to the point of decimation.
Declaring that "Carp tastes like crap" and has no value at all, when this
fish is used and sold as food throughout
the world simply displays our degree of naivitee and ignorance.

Even with scientific data supporting controlling their population, the carp
itself is not as "alien" as you may think.
Take a good look at the bigmouth and smallmouth buffaloes. Just put two
barbels on their mouths. The
North American continent has never been "free" of the carp family as these
native fish, and suckers
and numerous minnows prove.

So yes, we humans spread this fish all over the world. And where they have
become a nuisance, we humans need
to find ways to eliminate them or reduce their numbers....without helping
the Peta retards.
But that's got nothing to do with hating the fish or denying their value as
a food resource.
And it's also got nothing to do with denying their value as a sport fish,
since England and most of Europe considers
them a sport fish and any one of us who has hooked one, either intentionally
or not can attest.

Carp
 

Harold wrote:

As a hunter I wouldn't even think of shooting anything that I wasn't going
to eat. As a fisherman, I don't
believe killing fish I catch, especially mutilating them to vent my anger in
some errant direction does much
to help anyone. If States ran programs where you could bring in your carp
catch to any fishing license vendor
and the state paid a reward, per pound, per fish, whatever, this would help
immesely.


I'm a varmint hunter as well as other game, I have no problems
controlling the numbers of varmints,, or carp. I eat all the game
animals I kill except the vermin. When I kill other game fish, or harm
them so I know they won't survive if released, they also go in the
frying pan, but not carp. There are many introduced species that "need"
to be killed, both fish and land animals. I have no problem dispatching
them, just like emptying a mouse trap I set. Sorry but it is man's
place, to control the number of animals, sometimes these animals can't
be utilized by man, like he toads taking over down under, and the rabbit
problem they have down there.

PETA can go screw themselves, we can not give into their for food only
approach,, as this is just the start, then they go the whole 9 yds, not
kill anything. for any reason, (including rats, and cock roaches) as
this is what they actually want, and believe in. If you fall for part,
it won't take them long to get you to fall for it all. They go one step
at a time.

Obey the game laws of your state, they know better than anyone else
(in most cases). If a person obeys the game laws, I have no problem with
anything they do with in that law. If you don't like the law,, then get
it changed

--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com

Carp
 

"Harold" wrote in message
news:CkAUf.6534$kB1.5037@trndny07...


Even with scientific data supporting controlling their population, the
carp
itself is not as "alien" as you may think.
Take a good look at the bigmouth and smallmouth buffaloes. Just put two
barbels on their mouths.

sheepshead / Drum / buffalo are not closely related to carp.

Goldfish are closer to carp. (they crossbreed)

Carp
 

"Rodney Long" wrote in message
...
Harold wrote:

As a hunter I wouldn't even think of shooting anything that I wasn't
going
to eat. As a fisherman, I don't
believe killing fish I catch, especially mutilating them to vent my
anger in
some errant direction does much
to help anyone. If States ran programs where you could bring in your
carp
catch to any fishing license vendor
and the state paid a reward, per pound, per fish, whatever, this would
help
immesely.


I'm a varmint hunter as well as other game, I have no problems
controlling the numbers of varmints,, or carp. I eat all the game
animals I kill except the vermin. When I kill other game fish, or harm
them so I know they won't survive if released, they also go in the
frying pan, but not carp. There are many introduced species that "need"
to be killed, both fish and land animals. I have no problem dispatching
them, just like emptying a mouse trap I set. Sorry but it is man's
place, to control the number of animals, sometimes these animals can't
be utilized by man, like he toads taking over down under, and the rabbit
problem they have down there.

PETA can go screw themselves, we can not give into their for food only
approach,, as this is just the start, then they go the whole 9 yds, not
kill anything. for any reason, (including rats, and cock roaches) as
this is what they actually want, and believe in. If you fall for part,
it won't take them long to get you to fall for it all. They go one step
at a time.

Obey the game laws of your state, they know better than anyone else
(in most cases). If a person obeys the game laws, I have no problem with
anything they do with in that law. If you don't like the law,, then get
it changed


Do you know of any state where common carp caught MUST be kept, and
it is illegal to return it unharmed to the water? If you do, please let me
know.
I don't think killing every carp you see is obeying any game law in any
state.

As far as I can tell, only Australia has such laws.

And as for Grass carp, it is still in use as an algae elimination tool in
some
parts of the country and in some places MUST be returned to the water.

"Although fishing is permitted in the Imperial Valley canal system,
possession of live grass carp in California is illegal. Possession of grass
carp requires a special legal permit granted through the Department of Fish
and Game for the sole purpose of aquatic weed control. If you catch a grass
carp, you are required by law to return it to the water. Failure to abide by
this law may result in fine and/or imprisonment. The current penalty for
illegal possession and transport of grass carp is a fine of $5,000 and/or up
to one year in county jail."

Carp
 

"Pepperoni" wrote in message
...

"Harold" wrote in message
news:CkAUf.6534$kB1.5037@trndny07...


Even with scientific data supporting controlling their population, the
carp
itself is not as "alien" as you may think.
Take a good look at the bigmouth and smallmouth buffaloes. Just put two
barbels on their mouths.

sheepshead / Drum / buffalo are not closely related to carp.


Bigmouth (Ictiobus cyprinellus )and smallmouth buffalo (Ictiobus bubalus)
are both members of the carp/minnow family. If you don't think they are
closely related, take a look at the photos.

http://www.speciesatrisk.gc.ca/searc...m?SpeciesID=87

http://www.gen.umn.edu/research/fish...h_buffalo.html

Your confusion is the result of the tendency to call various different fish
throughout the country the same name.
Sheepshead is a name that I know is used in some parts of the ncountry for
the Freshwater Drum (Aplodinotus grunniens) which in fact a member of the
croaker family, which includes the sal****er channel bass (red drum/redfish)
and spotted seatrout of the US Gulf coasts.
Adding to the confusion, the term "Sheepshead" means two totally different
fish onnthe Atlantic coast south of the Carolinas and in California.

Goldfish are closer to carp. (they crossbreed)

Goldfish are much closer to the Crucian Carp, a species which, like our
buffaloes, has no barbels.In the wild, goldfish are known to cross breed
with wild crucian carp rather frequently. It is believed that the chinese
bred some strains of crucian carp around 960 AD to produce what we call the
goldfish.
http://www.proangler.co.uk/crucian.html
http://www.rod-and-line.co.uk/Crucian-Carp.html
Goldfish and the common carp can interbreed, but produce a weak STERILE
hybrid, unlike the goldfish
and crucian carp hybrid.
The multicolored carp called "Koi" are the common carp bred for ornamental
purposes in Japan and consequently are all known by Japanese names. They
are, like the wild common carp, a strong fish and considered hardier than
goldfish.