Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
 

mdk77 wrote in news:1186926546.175890.99770
@q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com:

Thanks to all of you who helped me get started fly fishing this
Spring. Now, after my first Spring and Summer of fishing, I'm back
here needing some more advice.

I live in Central Illinois so 90% of my fishing has been for panfish
and bass on ponds and lakes. Mostly small ponds and lakes that I can
wade. I may try canoe fishing next year too, on these same waters. I
do get away for trout fishing once a year on vacation though (next
year I'm going to Taneycomo for a week for Browns and
Rainbows.....this Summer I was in Canada with 3-5 pound Rainbows).

I'm a family-guy on a tight budget, so I started out with a Cabella's
Three Forks 6wt rod with Cortland 444 Classic Peach WF6 Floating
line. I know it's a KPOC, but it was all I could afford. I caught a
ton of fish on it this year though. I took a class and learned to tie
my own flies, and 90% of the flies I fish with are my own (often ugly)
flies size 6-12. I fish mostly nymphs, streamers (weighted or with
bead heads), and terrestrials. While I like catching the pan fish, I
most enjoy catching bass. They are a real thrill on a fly rod. I
don't plan on fishing big size hooks for bass, as I've done fine
around here with #6 hooks for bass, and bigger didn't seem to improve
my catches. Sometimes I was frustrated this year trying to fish on
windy days with my rig, but maybe it was me and not the equipment.

I think Santa is going to bring me a 2nd fly outfit this Christmas.
I'm working hard to be on Santa's "good" list (my wife) and dropping
hints already :-) What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd
fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable
(something around $300)? I might add here that I'm REALLY satisfied
with the Prestige Plus reel that came with the KPOC -- I've landed
some big bass, and one monster carp without feeling I needed anything
better than the Prestige Plus reel. I would like to put my money in a
nice rod.

Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with?


Sounds like you got yourself a bang-up rig for bass already. If you
really want to get yourself a new outfit, I'd suggest something that
would expand, rather than duplicate, your capabilities. If you want to
start looking for trout on small streams, or want to have a bit more fun
with panfish, consider something in a 3wt.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
 

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 20:57:52 -0700, Mike
wrote:

On Aug 13, 5:21 am, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:36:25 -0400, daytripper



wrote:
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:37:02 -0700, Mike wrote:

On Aug 13, 2:21 am, daytripper wrote:
SNIP

How about a comment on the line facts? Or don´t you know any either?

"Line facts"?

yawn

Frankly, if it can't be solved with a 444SL, in an appropriate weight for the
rod and taper for the fly, it isn't worth solving....

/daytripper ("Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep...")

Looks like I guessed right then? You don´t know any facts either? You
just dole out the bull**** same as Kenny boy. Seems to me you people
have more money than either sense or knowledge, which is fine really,
but makes you singularly unsuited to giving advice to newbies on tight
budgets. And just prey for manufacturers who use your ignorance to
boost their profits.

Paranoia? Now why should I be paranoid about anything at all? Your
medical advice is probably worth just about as much as your line
advice. Just as well I don´t need either.

Whatever, if you need any sensible advice, or even want to waste a
little less money, you know where to find me..........

Um, no. And that's fine with me, thanks...

/daytripper (but do go on - there's a speck of entertainment value in it)

Well, no one asked my opinion, but if they did, I say I was just so
impressed that no one was really, um, digging in...

Golly, oh so how I hope this helps,
R
...no, really, I typed that with a straight...well, at least not a
nappy-headed Nazi homo....face...

Nobody asks your opinion on anything at all,

Actually, you're wrong yet again, oh Nazi homo ho of the
nappy-headedness...on ROFF, folks often - heck, almost by definition -
ask for _everyone's_ opinion...and the neat thing is, whether they want
'em all or not, they are likely to get 'em...

as long and weary
experience has taught them that your opinion on just about anything is
more or less worthless, apart it seems from some extremely minimal
"entertainment value", which some are apparently only here for, and
because you are also a puerile miscreant of the worst possible ilk.

And wrong AGAIN - when I'm a puerile miscreant, it's of the BEST
possible ilk...

Ilkily,
R

Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
 

On Aug 12, 10:51 pm, MajorOz wrote:
On Aug 12, 8:49 am, mdk77 wrote:



Thanks to all of you who helped me get started fly fishing this
Spring. Now, after my first Spring and Summer of fishing, I'm back
here needing some more advice.

I live in Central Illinois so 90% of my fishing has been for panfish
and bass on ponds and lakes. Mostly small ponds and lakes that I can
wade. I may try canoe fishing next year too, on these same waters. I
do get away for trout fishing once a year on vacation though (next
year I'm going to Taneycomo for a week for Browns and
Rainbows.....this Summer I was in Canada with 3-5 pound Rainbows).

I'm a family-guy on a tight budget, so I started out with a Cabella's
Three Forks 6wt rod with Cortland 444 Classic Peach WF6 Floating
line. I know it's a KPOC, but it was all I could afford. I caught a
ton of fish on it this year though. I took a class and learned to tie
my own flies, and 90% of the flies I fish with are my own (often ugly)
flies size 6-12. I fish mostly nymphs, streamers (weighted or with
bead heads), and terrestrials. While I like catching the pan fish, I
most enjoy catching bass. They are a real thrill on a fly rod. I
don't plan on fishing big size hooks for bass, as I've done fine
around here with #6 hooks for bass, and bigger didn't seem to improve
my catches. Sometimes I was frustrated this year trying to fish on
windy days with my rig, but maybe it was me and not the equipment.

I think Santa is going to bring me a 2nd fly outfit this Christmas.
I'm working hard to be on Santa's "good" list (my wife) and dropping
hints already :-) What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd
fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable
(something around $300)? I might add here that I'm REALLY satisfied
with the Prestige Plus reel that came with the KPOC -- I've landed
some big bass, and one monster carp without feeling I needed anything
better than the Prestige Plus reel. I would like to put my money in a
nice rod.

Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with?

As Mike said: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". You sound as if you
have had much success this past year (better than some of us terribly
elite veterans), so put a hold on inventory expansion and get a boat
better to enjoy those ponds you have been wading.
Few things in life are more relaxing than bluegills on a fly rod from
a jon boat on a farm pond on a summer's evening.

cheers

oz

Thanks to everyone for the advice. Oz, my plan is to buy a canoe by
next year to fish these ponds. You "read my mind" on the idea of
floating a pond on a summer's evening and catching the 'gills.

Again, thanks to everyone for giving me a lot of great ideas. Even if
folks don't agree on things, I sure do appreciate the different ideas
presented here. It gives me a lot to consider.

- Dave

Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
 

On Aug 13, 1:03 pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
.. ...

If you're going to recommend these things to newbies you should
include a source for materials. I mean a newbie isn't going to
have old scraps of DT line laying around or know where to find
cheap running line.


DT lines may be obtained anywhere, and the backing most used is cheap
nylon braid, also available anywhere

My recommendation to a newbie is buy a good fly line, go fish
with it and don't worry about trying to roll your own fly line.


That is fair enough, but in this specific case, the guy has been
fishing for a season, and wishes to extend his capabilities without
spending too much money. many people go out and buy new rods, but this
does not help, and is not the best way to go.

And I did read part of the article you referenced. The author
echoes my own experience with shooting heads in this excerpt:

"The use of a shooting head is not only a blessing. There are
disadvantages too. Among these you will find:

- lack of precision. The strength lies in power and distance,
not delicacy.

That is highly subjective, depends on how one makes the head up, what
one uses the head for, and the caster´s ability. They are just as
precise as any WF line.

- poor short line abilities. There is a minimum length of line,
which has to be out of the top eye before you can cast well.


That is actually incorrect. because a head is weight matched to the
rod, it has better short line abilities than any other line. The rod
loads sooner.

- poor turnover of leader and fly. The heads are often constructed
with short front and back tapers and rely on power to turn over
properly.


True

- poor roll casting abilities for the same reasons as above.


Also only applies if one fishes beyond the length of the head, but is
basically true.


- noisy landing. The line will often splash on the landing -
especially with sinking lines.


True enough, so will any other line.presentation depends mainly on the
caster. Although distance heads are not delicate presentation tools.
Neither are WF lines.


It's important to notice that shooting heads are very different.
Some are half double taper lines with almost no taper, while others
are carefully constructed with roll, spey and underhand casts in
mind, and often as good or better with these casts than a simple
WF line."


A WF line IS a shooting head, with integrated running line. Various
tapers may improve some performance aspects, but for the most part may
be ignored.


Which is pretty much what I posted earlier.

--
Ken Fortenberry

I have no problems at all accepting your disagreement on a sensible
and logical basis. Indeed, I would also accept it if you simply said
"I just don´t like them". Entirely your prerogative.

--
Regards and tight lines!

Mike Connor

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en

Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
 

Mike, if you are correct, then why do 99.9% of fly fishermen use a
plain, ordinary, commercial fly line? Could the answer be "because it
works for them?" This shooting head stuff is fine, if you are
experienced and want what the SH will give you. But in most
experiences, it simply is not needed. Most of my work is done within
30 feet of me because *that's where the fish are*. I surely do not
need a shooting head to get 30 feet of line out.

While fishing in Labrador last year, the brook trout (big ones!) were
feeding on the surface about 60 feet from us. If you got closer with
the boat, they would stop, so you had to stay quite a distance. *No
one* had trouble pumping out 60 feet of commercial fly line using a
#12 Royal Wulff as a lure. And, we caught a fish on almost every
single cast.

What the newbie needs is casting practice, not shooting heads. What
he needs is what *most* fly fishermen use, a commercial WF fly line,
and if he wants to safe a little money, a double taper (so he can save
money by turning it around when needed). He does not need a shooting
head. In fact, most of us also do not need it most of the time. And
if I *need* to cast 90 feet, I go with a spey rod instead of a
shooting head.

Just my humble observations while fishing 456 days in my Simms G3s.

Dave

Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
 

Mike wrote:
snip
I have no problems at all accepting your disagreement on a sensible
and logical basis.

LOL !! Mike you have serious problems accepting any sort of
disagreement at all. Your know-it-all pronouncements are the
stuff of roff legend.

Indeed, I would also accept it if you simply said
"I just don´t like them". Entirely your prerogative.

Like I said, shooting heads have their place but fishing for
bass in central Illinois ain't one of them. And I strongly
disagree with recommending to newbies that they cobble together
cheap fly lines. In fact I always counsel newbies never to
cheap out on the fly line. Go bargain hunting for fly rod, fly
reel and flies if you must but never cheap out on the fly line
because a cheap fly line can make fly fishing a miserable and
trying experience.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
 

On Aug 12, 10:20 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
mdk77 wrote:
Thanks to all of you who helped me get started fly fishing this
Spring. Now, after my first Spring and Summer of fishing, I'm back
here needing some more advice.
snip
What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd
fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable
(something around $300)?

I bought a 6wt Redington CPS for smallmouth fishing and I'm
quite pleased with it. It fits exactly in your price range
at $299 and for the money it's a very nice fly rod.

...
Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with?

That depends on what you want to do most. If it's catching
bluegill in the ponds go with a 3wt, bass get another 6wt
or to fight the wind and toss deer hair a 7 or 8wt.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ken, it sounds like you are from Central Illinois too. I'm curious,
do you fish around here for Bass, and if you do, then what size do you
fish with the most? Thanks.

- Dave

Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
 

On Aug 13, 12:15 pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
Mike, if you are correct, then why do 99.9% of fly fishermen use a
plain, ordinary, commercial fly line? Could the answer be "because it
works for them?" This shooting head stuff is fine, if you are
experienced and want what the SH will give you. But in most
experiences, it simply is not needed. Most of my work is done within
30 feet of me because *that's where the fish are*. I surely do not
need a shooting head to get 30 feet of line out.

While fishing in Labrador last year, the brook trout (big ones!) were
feeding on the surface about 60 feet from us. If you got closer with
the boat, they would stop, so you had to stay quite a distance. *No
one* had trouble pumping out 60 feet of commercial fly line using a
#12 Royal Wulff as a lure. And, we caught a fish on almost every
single cast.

What the newbie needs is casting practice, not shooting heads. What
he needs is what *most* fly fishermen use, a commercial WF fly line,
and if he wants to safe a little money, a double taper (so he can save
money by turning it around when needed). He does not need a shooting
head. In fact, most of us also do not need it most of the time. And
if I *need* to cast 90 feet, I go with a spey rod instead of a
shooting head.

Just my humble observations while fishing 456 days in my Simms G3s.

Dave

Fourty + years ago I made "Shooting heads" by wacking off 10 yard or
so off a size GAG line ( you got two out of each double tapered
line). I wound form a loop in the "A" end and use some braded line
for shooting ( Sunset cuttyhunk I believe it was called). I could cat
it 100' maby more. It wasn't really fly casting just casting. Some
people did use spinning reels. Coiling and holding the line was the
tricky part.
If I wanted to fish the Eel or Klamth rivers now I would use a 9W
shooting taper. It works just as good and I would save my time for
BSing and drinking beer. I use to have more time than money. I
probably still do but i don't have as much of it left so I am going to
use it for better things than fooling wih fly lines.
I don't remeber people having shooting lines back then. If they did
they wern't in my price range. The first on I bought was a "bass
taper".
So my advise to mdk is use what they sell. Borrow, rent or otherwise
try lots of equipment, find what you like.. Spend you money wisely.

Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
 

mdk77 wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
mdk77 wrote:
snip
What would you recommend that I consider for a 2nd
fly rod/reel that is a step up from the KPOC, but still affordable
(something around $300)?
I bought a 6wt Redington CPS for smallmouth fishing and I'm
quite pleased with it. It fits exactly in your price range
at $299 and for the money it's a very nice fly rod.

...
Also, what size rod/reel would you think I should go with?
That depends on what you want to do most. If it's catching
bluegill in the ponds go with a 3wt, bass get another 6wt
or to fight the wind and toss deer hair a 7 or 8wt.

Ken, it sounds like you are from Central Illinois too. I'm curious,
do you fish around here for Bass, and if you do, then what size do you
fish with the most? Thanks.

I live in Urbana and most of my local bass fishing is
smallmouth fishing in the streams of Vermillion county.
I'll put my canoe in the ponds at Kickapoo State Park
and a few other small lakes fishing for largemouths but
I avoid Clinton and Shelbyville, too many metal flake
bass boats.

My bass rod is a Sage RPL 690-4, that's 9' 6wt 4 piece
that's long since been discontinued by Sage. As I said,
I recently bought a backup rod for bass fishing and I'm
really pleased with the 9' 4 piece 6wt Redington CPS,
it's almost as nice as my Sage and at $299 a good value.

Most folks targeting largemouths in the bigger lakes
that I avoid would use 7 or 8wt rods but the 6wt works
fine for me targeting smallies and fishing ponds from
the canoe. Mostly around home, I'm a bluegill fisherman
using a 9' Winston 3wt, that's the most fun for me.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Newbie questions -- after my 1st season of fishing
 

On Aug 13, 9:15 pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
Mike, if you are correct, then why do 99.9% of fly fishermen use a


Do you know why 5% of the anglers catch ninety five per cent of the
fish?

If I am incorrect, then just ignore me.

Very much of my fishing is also done at ranges below thirty feet, and
I use heads almost exclusively. Your problem appears to be that you don
´t know what a head is, or what it may be used for.

I have explained it often enough, but you either don´t read what I
write, or don´t care, so there is little point in my repeating it yet
again.

No big deal.

--
Regards and tight lines!

Mike Connor

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en