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OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
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OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
On Apr 19, 3:16*am, wrote:
On Apr 18, 9:27*am, wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:07:23 GMT, "Larry L" wrote: I stopped on the same bike ride yesterday and chatted with a woman about her goats ( lots of goats around here, more and more each year ) and she was telling me goat meat is available there ... I've never tried it ... kinda scary thinking what I might actually end up with shopping for goat meat in a language I can't really speak ... ah life's little adventures G FWIW, there's a BIG difference between _goat_ (as in "old") and cabrito (kid, young goat) - sorta like lamb vs mutton. *I like cabrito and lamb, not so much goat and mutton. *Both can be had in a number of cultures/cuisines and most variants can be had all over the US, most readily found, IME, in Mexican (cabrito) and Jamaican (jerk goat, etc.) restaurants, and as Brazilian restaurants become more popular, you might find it there. *Unless you like organ meats, stay away from any Mexican cabrito "stews" - they don't all contain such, but some do, and until you know what's what... *IAC, and IMO, cabrito "al pastor" (grilled, BBQ) is best anyway. TC, R I don't see cabrito on the Mexican menues up here, not even much in the Yakima Valley. You do see a hell of a lot more goat being raised on the latino mini-farms. What is more available, but often not on the written menu is "barrego," generally cooked till its falling off the bone. Dave- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Correction: Its "Borrego," and its a lamb shank, not goat. Sometimes the shoulder is also called borrego. Anyway its a great way to do lamb. Dave |
OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
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OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
Larry L wrote:
"jeff miller" wrote . i can't imagine doing anything intentionally that hurt my dog. As rdean would say, this might not help but a true story that I get a kick out of I got a call, and was asked, "Are you a dog trainer?" "Yes, what can I do for you?" "Well my yellow Lab climbs up on the counter when ever I'm cooking and eats all our food. She just ruined a whole roast. How can I stop her?" Me, "That is not at all my type of training but I can offer some simple advice. When she climbs up there, say 'no' very firmly and do something that she finds very unpleasant, swat her butt HARD, for instance. At this point it has to be more unpleasant than the food is pleasant." The female caller, tone indignant, "I could NEVER do anything to hurt my dog !!" Me, again, " Well, in that case I suggest you put the food on the floor and save her the trouble of all that climbing." Click .. somehow we were cut off .. surely she didn't hang up on me after I gave her such sensible, and honest, advice ? G the loud voice thing has always worked for me... but, no hang up here. i don't think the butt swat routine on an isolated or single purpose basis is the same as the ECs or salt shot, butt g rachel and i aren't trainers or very good parents. sadie is spoiled but the most lovable dog i've ever been owned by. jeff |
OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
rw wrote:
Larry L wrote: "jeff miller" wrote . i can't imagine doing anything intentionally that hurt my dog. As rdean would say, this might not help but a true story that I get a kick out of I got a call, and was asked, "Are you a dog trainer?" "Yes, what can I do for you?" "Well my yellow Lab climbs up on the counter when ever I'm cooking and eats all our food. She just ruined a whole roast. How can I stop her?" Me, "That is not at all my type of training but I can offer some simple advice. When she climbs up there, say 'no' very firmly and do something that she finds very unpleasant, swat her butt HARD, for instance. At this point it has to be more unpleasant than the food is pleasant." The female caller, tone indignant, "I could NEVER do anything to hurt my dog !!" Me, again, " Well, in that case I suggest you put the food on the floor and save her the trouble of all that climbing." Click .. somehow we were cut off .. surely she didn't hang up on me after I gave her such sensible, and honest, advice ? G Great story. Some people have this dog worship thing. It drives me nuts. In my experience, dogs need to know the rules -- the reasonable rules. Once they know them, they'll obey them. They are creatures of habit. They need structure. It's the owners job to give them that predictable structure. Then they'll be happy and well mannered. I used a training collar for the first time this spring, on my girlfriend's dog, a totally (to that point) unmanageable Anatolian Sheperd Winnemucca Pound Pup. The dog was impossible. Whenever he saw cows or elk, off he'd go on a wild and illegal and dangerous romp. The training collar (i.e. shock collar) was a one-time fix for a solid come/stay. It was like magic. shock on...no doubt, infliction of physical pain can be a great teacher and molder of behavior and thought (and not just in dogs)...simply not my approach. ... i do note the "invisible fence" business is thriving in these parts though. jeff |
OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
Charlie Choc wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:19:11 -0400, jeff miller wrote: jeff (btw...despite my initial plans otherwise, i've succumbed to the troutforce of montana yet again, and hope to be there july 11-18 this year. if you'll be in the area of reynolds or west yellowstone, perhaps we can share a meal if not a creek. i'll be camping somedamnwhere. the slide inn has shifted focus and now caters to wealthy republicans. g) I'll be out there all of June, but will be back home by July. I'll leave plenty of fish for you. ;-) i'll be interested in hearing your take on the conditions in june. i remember one trip in july when runoff was still a problem on some streams...sorry to hear you won't stiil be around. i'll no doubt require a bit of stewardship in getting the camping thing down...esp. the hot shower part. g i'm flying in to salt lake city, renting a tiny car, and driving up. any suggestions about the route based on your experience? jeff |
OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
"rw" wrote in message m... Great story. Some people have this dog worship thing. It drives me nuts. In my experience, dogs need to know the rules -- the reasonable rules. Once they know them, they'll obey them. They are creatures of habit. They need structure. It's the owners job to give them that predictable structure. Then they'll be happy and well mannered. I used a training collar for the first time this spring, on my girlfriend's dog, a totally (to that point) unmanageable Anatolian Sheperd Winnemucca Pound Pup. The dog was impossible. Whenever he saw cows or elk, off he'd go on a wild and illegal and dangerous romp. The training collar (i.e. shock collar) was a one-time fix for a solid come/stay. It was like magic. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. The best training that I have personally experienced was with the Lenoir Police Departments K9 Training Unit. They put on a Civilians K9 Training course once a year. The course is designed for discipline purposes only--no attack training. When I first brought Bear home to mother--after I had to putdown Beau-re-Guard, the love of mine and mother's lives for over 12 years--Bear would run from me every time I call him to me. He would bolt after deer, when we took our hikes on the mountain. The LPD trained me to become the alpha male and now if Bear sees a deer on the property, he bolts, I holler "Bear Come" and he stops looks at me, looks back at where the deer had been a split second ago and then he bounds back to me. No shock collar were used in training, just a light tug on a choke collar was employed. I worked with Bear for the eight weeks of training, but he came around within the third week. It was a simple matter of taking him on walks or around the back yard 15 minutes a day. Bear has become my go to fishin' buddy and will accompany Mr. Jeff Miller and I this year on our annual NC fishin' get together. As a matter of fact, Bear and I are going fishing in about an hour from now. I have posted some pics, over at ABPF, of Bear and I from last June on Upper Creek. He only leaves my side during breaks and when he can't negotiate the path I have chosen up stream. Otherwise he is either by my side or right behind me at all times. Bear is a one hundred and fifteen pounds of joy and enthusiasm. Op |
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jeff miller wrote:
rw wrote: I used a training collar for the first time this spring, on my girlfriend's dog, a totally (to that point) unmanageable Anatolian Sheperd Winnemucca Pound Pup. The dog was impossible. Whenever he saw cows or elk, off he'd go on a wild and illegal and dangerous romp. The training collar (i.e. shock collar) was a one-time fix for a solid come/stay. It was like magic. shock on...no doubt, infliction of physical pain can be a great teacher and molder of behavior and thought (and not just in dogs)...simply not my approach. ... i do note the "invisible fence" business is thriving in these parts though. jeff The correct use of the training collar to teach "come" doesn't involve much if any pain -- only mild discomfort. The idea is not to punish the dog for not coming, but to reward him for coming. The technique is to first find the lowest setting at which the dog responds. You can test it on yourself by putting your fingers on the electrodes. When the dog doesn't come you push the button and KEEP IT ON. When the dog comes and sits you release the button. He is not allowed to run off until you give a "break" command. The basic idea is to get the dog to think that you have super powers to affect him at a distance. Many years ago I had a Malamute -- a notoriously "hard" breed -- that wouldn't come. A sharp hit in the flank with a slingshot fixed that for good. The way I see it, it's far better for the dog to avoid running into the highway or getting shot by a rancher for chasing cows or shot for chasing game than it is to get a minor shock. Once the training is done, which typically requires only a very few trials, the collar is not needed. Then you will have a well behaved dog with a solid "come." Training collars are not for every dog. My Border Collie, for example, would probably totally freak out. She's so eager to please that it's not necessary in any case. BTW, if you can't leave a plate of pork chops on the coffee table, alone with your dog, and expect the pork chops to be there when you return, your dog is poorly trained. A well trained dog is a joy. A poorly trained one is a headache. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 09:31:10 -0400, jeff miller
wrote: i'm flying in to salt lake city, renting a tiny car, and driving up. any suggestions about the route based on your experience? I would suggest I-80 to Rock Springs, then up US 191 either all the way to Jackson and up through Grand Teton, or get off 191 at Farson and up through Lander and Dubois. Both routes will take you through some nice scenery, the route through Dubois being prettier but also longer. The fastest and shortest way is up I-15 to Idaho Falls and from there to West Yellowstone. -- Charlie... http://www.chocphoto.com |
OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
rw wrote:
jeff miller wrote: rw wrote: I used a training collar for the first time this spring, on my girlfriend's dog, a totally (to that point) unmanageable Anatolian Sheperd Winnemucca Pound Pup. The dog was impossible. Whenever he saw cows or elk, off he'd go on a wild and illegal and dangerous romp. The training collar (i.e. shock collar) was a one-time fix for a solid come/stay. It was like magic. shock on...no doubt, infliction of physical pain can be a great teacher and molder of behavior and thought (and not just in dogs)...simply not my approach. ... i do note the "invisible fence" business is thriving in these parts though. jeff The correct use of the training collar to teach "come" doesn't involve much if any pain -- only mild discomfort. The idea is not to punish the dog for not coming, but to reward him for coming. The technique is to first find the lowest setting at which the dog responds. You can test it on yourself by putting your fingers on the electrodes. When the dog doesn't come you push the button and KEEP IT ON. When the dog comes and sits you release the button. He is not allowed to run off until you give a "break" command. The basic idea is to get the dog to think that you have super powers to affect him at a distance. Many years ago I had a Malamute -- a notoriously "hard" breed -- that wouldn't come. A sharp hit in the flank with a slingshot fixed that for good. The way I see it, it's far better for the dog to avoid running into the highway or getting shot by a rancher for chasing cows or shot for chasing game than it is to get a minor shock. Once the training is done, which typically requires only a very few trials, the collar is not needed. Then you will have a well behaved dog with a solid "come." Training collars are not for every dog. My Border Collie, for example, would probably totally freak out. She's so eager to please that it's not necessary in any case. BTW, if you can't leave a plate of pork chops on the coffee table, alone with your dog, and expect the pork chops to be there when you return, your dog is poorly trained. A well trained dog is a joy. A poorly trained one is a headache. i have no idea what we did to or for sadie, our mainly golden, but dash of other breeds, stray. we took her in when she was about 2 months old, either abandoned or lost for several days. swollen belly, not doing well, but puppy cute. she did the house training thing quick, and learned most other things following the loud voice training approach. she loves the woods and used to hike with me a lot...never running far from me and always keeping her eye on me and my location. i got lost in the mountains once, and she kept close with me the 8 hours it took me to find a road. i think she was probably the weak, shy dog in a litter, and some asshole simply dumped her on a mountain road. we've never used any painful or scary treatment. nevertheless, she stays in the yard without a fence, even at night alone. and, while she is always ready to eat anything we eat, she won't steal it. i often leave food plates where she could get at them while i'm out of the room, and she doesn't take it. we take her to my office every day we are there, where she's now part of the office staff, and the best-behaved, happiest member of the family...and the one many folks prefer to see. she is a reasonably well-behaved dog and a joy...so i know what you mean. i understand the principles you describe, and the need. thus far, I've not had the need. my original comments dealt with painful training methods...shooting a dog, shocking it so severely that it yelped and one that even turned a flip (it was running on a "blind" during training, but in the wrong direction), biting its ear...etc. i just can't bring myself to do those things...my own personal flaw i guess. if i had a really bad or frustrating dog that required temporarily-harsh training methods, i'd probably try to find a trainer to do the dirty work of discipline in my absence or i'd find a better-suited owner and home for it. jeff |
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