I'm ashamed of my country
 

David Snedeker wrote:

I believe that some of the accounts from the scene, Native and settler,
suggest that a more or less continuous "front" existed for much of the
period of conflict.

The problem is that the front ended up at the Pacific Ocean.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

I'm ashamed of my country
 

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 04:53:04 GMT, rw
wrote:

wrote:

Stealing is wrong. Period.

Our European ancestors stole two continents from the native Americans.
It went beyond thievery. It was genocide.


And my American Indian ancestors married into my German ancestors. If
I could trace back my French Canadian ancestors I'd probably find more
consorting with the enemy.

So somewhere between 15/16s (-1/64) to 1 - (1/64) of me stole from
anywhere from 1/16 (+1/64) to 1/64 of me. Damn. I'm more guilty
than I am innocent.

It's things like knowing you've got a dog on both sides in the fight
that make you want ring up the Humane Society and call the whole thing
off.

The history is fascinating, but with my heritage, shallow as it may be
on the one side, the blame game gets a bit tedious. Where wondering
if my great whatever grandmother who was adopted from what may have
been the Choctaw (nope, not a Chickasaw chick according to the
genecology pages) and then happened to marry one of the boys in the
family just happened to have some sort of title from days when the
tribes might have been allowed to own land that fit in well with the
adopter's plans. And that it might have suited the great whatever
grandmother's parents to spare her from the Trail of Tears? In
addition to maybe giving them a place to wander back to if they got a
chance?

Once you know for sure you're blended ancestry, even if only a tiny
bit, you get a different perspective. I'd always been pretty sure of
it because of the French Canadian connection, but no proof there. The
Europeans and the American Indians seem to have been a tad more
peaceable about the takeover up in Canada than here in the U.S. More
fraternizing with the enemy in the early and mid days of the conquest.
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.
Really.

I'm ashamed of my country
 

Cyli wrote:

And my American Indian ancestors married into my German ancestors. If
I could trace back my French Canadian ancestors I'd probably find more
consorting with the enemy.

So somewhere between 15/16s (-1/64) to 1 - (1/64) of me stole from
anywhere from 1/16 (+1/64) to 1/64 of me. Damn. I'm more guilty
than I am innocent.

It's things like knowing you've got a dog on both sides in the fight
that make you want ring up the Humane Society and call the whole thing
off.

The history is fascinating, but with my heritage, shallow as it may be
on the one side, the blame game gets a bit tedious.

That's very cute, cyli, but there was an organized, political movement
to exterminate the Indians. It began on day 1, when Columbus landed, but
reached perhaps its full realization (in the US, at least) with
President Andrew Jackson and the perfectly named Indian Removal Act.

I agree that it's not productive to blame dead people or their
ancestors, but it's not good to sweep history under rug just because
it's ugly and doesn't fit the myths of our country's origins.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

I'm ashamed of my country
 

rw wrote:

I agree that it's not productive to blame dead people or their
ancestors,

Oops. Make that "descendants."

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

I'm ashamed of my country
 

In article . net, rw56
says...
Cyli wrote:

And my American Indian ancestors married into my German ancestors. If
I could trace back my French Canadian ancestors I'd probably find more
consorting with the enemy.

The history is fascinating, but with my heritage, shallow as it may be
on the one side, the blame game gets a bit tedious.

I agree that it's not productive to blame dead people or their
ancestors, but it's not good to sweep history under rug just because
it's ugly and doesn't fit the myths of our country's origins.

Dumb question, but didn't this part of the thread start because you
were blaming dead people and their ancestors?
- Ken

I'm ashamed of my country
 

I'm ashamed of my country
 

"Stealing is wrong. Period."
So if your on the jury we can be sure old Sheriff Billy McGee will get
some serious chain gang time. I think we can be sure them folks in
Forrest County share your morality and belief in the law.

I'm ashamed of my country
 

wrote in message
...

And anyone who asks another person, child or otherwise, if stealing is
wrong and
interprets an answer of anything other than "yes," particularly a
rationalization, as a sign of "ethical development," is in need a bunch of
ethical development themselves. Stealing is wrong. Period.

You're a douchebag. Period.

However, that
wrong could be viewed as mitigated by the fact that a family would starve
(a
greater "wrong" in most modern culture) if that
comparatively-lesser-in-most
modern-cultures wrong weren't done. But a wrong has been done, period.
The
victim of the theft still has been wronged...or have you forgotten, in
your rush
to rationalized things into grey, that for every theft, no matter the
mitigating

blah blah blah blah blah

I'm ashamed of my country
 

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:29:10 GMT, rw
wrote:

(snipped)


I agree that it's not productive to blame dead people or their
ancestors, but it's not good to sweep history under rug just because
it's ugly and doesn't fit the myths of our country's origins.

Quite correct. It's the tendency for the blame to fall on the present
people that I've got an objection to. Yes, there is blame, but it
should stay with the persons in the past who earned it. I consider
that this generation has enough present stuff to blame itself (or the
opposing political party or whatever) for without letting the past
drool guilt on us.


I do find the intentional and accidental harm done to the American
Indians (North, South, and Central Americas) well worthy of
documentation and as fascinating as I do the whole Euro take over of
as much of the world as possible for the time from about 1400 to about
1900 (and a bit farther in some case) by arms and religion.

Of course we're left with the fact that those past excesses led to
misery that's still present.
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.
Really.

I'm ashamed of my country
 

"BJConner" wrote in message
oups.com...
"Stealing is wrong. Period."
So if your on the jury we can be sure old Sheriff Billy McGee will get
some serious chain gang time. I think we can be sure them folks in
Forrest County share your morality and belief in the law.


I suspect he meant "stealing from ME is wrong. Period."

:-)
riverman

I'm ashamed of my country
 

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:08:48 GMT, "jeffc" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

And anyone who asks another person, child or otherwise, if stealing is
wrong and
interprets an answer of anything other than "yes," particularly a
rationalization, as a sign of "ethical development," is in need a bunch of
ethical development themselves. Stealing is wrong. Period.

You're a douchebag. Period.

Hmmm...lessee - so my sole purpose in life would be servicing pussy...eh, I can
live with it...

I'm ashamed of my country
 

I just sent my DNA swabs in for the National Graphic Genographic project.
When I
get the results back I'll know who to blame for everything thats happened to
my ancestors, To start with I am going to sue the state of Ohio for the
Gnadenhutten massacre, Texas for Governor Runnels running great great
grandpa out of Texas and who know s what else.
Only a hundred bucks and I may enough information to blame all of history
for being what I am now.

https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/


"Cyli" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:29:10 GMT, rw
wrote:

(snipped)


I agree that it's not productive to blame dead people or their
ancestors, but it's not good to sweep history under rug just because
it's ugly and doesn't fit the myths of our country's origins.

Quite correct. It's the tendency for the blame to fall on the present
people that I've got an objection to. Yes, there is blame, but it
should stay with the persons in the past who earned it. I consider
that this generation has enough present stuff to blame itself (or the
opposing political party or whatever) for without letting the past
drool guilt on us.


I do find the intentional and accidental harm done to the American
Indians (North, South, and Central Americas) well worthy of
documentation and as fascinating as I do the whole Euro take over of
as much of the world as possible for the time from about 1400 to about
1900 (and a bit farther in some case) by arms and religion.

Of course we're left with the fact that those past excesses led to
misery that's still present.
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.
Really.

I'm ashamed of my country
 

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 05:24:52 GMT, "BJ Conner"
wrote:

I just sent my DNA swabs in for the National Graphic Genographic project.
When I
get the results back I'll know who to blame for everything thats happened to
my ancestors, To start with I am going to sue the state of Ohio for the
Gnadenhutten massacre, Texas for Governor Runnels running great great
grandpa out of Texas and who know s what else.
Only a hundred bucks and I may enough information to blame all of history
for being what I am now.

https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/


Fascinating. What an interesting idea.
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.
Really.

I'm ashamed of my country
 

rw wrote:

That's very cute, cyli, but there was an organized, political movement
to exterminate the Indians. It began on day 1, when Columbus landed, but
reached perhaps its full realization (in the US, at least) with
President Andrew Jackson and the perfectly named Indian Removal Act.

http://tinyurl.com/ky9jr