Question about loop leaders?
 

"Willi & Sue" wrote in message
...


That's what I do. I find it works well. Nail knots with heavy tippet are
easy to tie.

That should read blood knot. Nail knots are never easy IMO.

Really? I find nail knots in lighter material pretty simple: I just run the
lines parallel, make 3 or 4 large loops, pass the line back through them,
adjust and tighten. In stiff material, using a thin straw makes it very
simple. We all talked about that a few months ago, iirc.

Blood knots, otoh, are a freaking nightmare!

But what do you mean; you use a blood knot to attach the butt to the line,
or the butt to the leader?
--riverman

Question about loop leaders?
 

Willi & Sue wrote in news:41714164$0$209$75868355
@news.frii.net:

That's what I do. I find it works well. Nail knots with heavy tippet are
easy to tie. Never tried tried loops because I don't see any significant
advantages and for some reason, the loops seem to me out of place.

Willi




I thought the nail knot took advantage of the soft flyline coating to bite
into. I'd be scared to depend on a mono-to-mono nail knot.

Scott

Question about loop leaders?
 

Willi & Sue wrote in news:41714164$0$209$75868355
@news.frii.net:

That's what I do. I find it works well. Nail knots with heavy tippet are
easy to tie. Never tried tried loops because I don't see any significant
advantages and for some reason, the loops seem to me out of place.

Willi




I thought the nail knot took advantage of the soft flyline coating to bite
into. I'd be scared to depend on a mono-to-mono nail knot.

Scott

Question about loop leaders?
 

"riverman" wrote


No reason to let this thread die out just because the question that wasn't
asked has been answered!



ticm engaged

I tend to resist claims that there is ONE RIGHT way and anything else is
WRONG .... such thoughts are just too Bushonian for me


So, on one river ... the Fork

MOST times I fish with loops and leaders that consist of hand tied Maxima
butts and part of the transition mated to the thinner half, roughly, of a
store bought leader

MOSTLY I use a leader that ends up about 12 to 14 foot long, with tippet and
has about half of that in Maxima.

SOME times ( windy) I use a leader about
the same length but more like 10 foot will be "butt" and transition Maxima

These two leaders both work well for the most common presentation that I use
( the single most important word in this discourse is "I" ), .... down
and slightly across.
I don't use a 12ft store bought because I have tried about
8 brands and none works as well for ME ( that important "I" again :-) and my
casting stroke ... currently all 12 ft leaders seem designed for longer
casts and faster rods ... give them enough power from the rod and they work
great ... but I cast short and like medium action rods, and need a butt that
carries my lesser casting energy further down the leader.

SOME periods, each year, mainly when irrigation flows are changed, the Fork
has lots of floating weed. During those times I do NOT use loops, and do
NOT tie my own leader butts .... I buy a 12ft Rio leader and needle nail
knot it to a dry line I normally use on a different rod. I then try to
adjust my casting to fit the tools .... instead of MY preference of
adjusting the tools to suit ME

Anyway, it's pretty damn easy to try several ways of doing lots of different
things with our tackle .... try em and decide for the "I" within .... maybe
there are times when each one is best?. The hardest part is maintaining
enough mental flexibility to try and be honest with "I". In one of the
debates our beloved leader, Dubya, said something like, "It's either right
or wrong, it's that simple." about a very complex issue. Maybe his sad,
weak mindedness started as a Texas lad with a small decision that there was
only ONE RIGHT way to toss a Bass up on the bank and watch it flop ... who
knows

.... fear the incremental encroachment of such Bushonian anti-truth into your
own mind
/end tongue in cheek mode

Question about loop leaders?
 

"riverman" wrote


No reason to let this thread die out just because the question that wasn't
asked has been answered!



ticm engaged

I tend to resist claims that there is ONE RIGHT way and anything else is
WRONG .... such thoughts are just too Bushonian for me


So, on one river ... the Fork

MOST times I fish with loops and leaders that consist of hand tied Maxima
butts and part of the transition mated to the thinner half, roughly, of a
store bought leader

MOSTLY I use a leader that ends up about 12 to 14 foot long, with tippet and
has about half of that in Maxima.

SOME times ( windy) I use a leader about
the same length but more like 10 foot will be "butt" and transition Maxima

These two leaders both work well for the most common presentation that I use
( the single most important word in this discourse is "I" ), .... down
and slightly across.
I don't use a 12ft store bought because I have tried about
8 brands and none works as well for ME ( that important "I" again :-) and my
casting stroke ... currently all 12 ft leaders seem designed for longer
casts and faster rods ... give them enough power from the rod and they work
great ... but I cast short and like medium action rods, and need a butt that
carries my lesser casting energy further down the leader.

SOME periods, each year, mainly when irrigation flows are changed, the Fork
has lots of floating weed. During those times I do NOT use loops, and do
NOT tie my own leader butts .... I buy a 12ft Rio leader and needle nail
knot it to a dry line I normally use on a different rod. I then try to
adjust my casting to fit the tools .... instead of MY preference of
adjusting the tools to suit ME

Anyway, it's pretty damn easy to try several ways of doing lots of different
things with our tackle .... try em and decide for the "I" within .... maybe
there are times when each one is best?. The hardest part is maintaining
enough mental flexibility to try and be honest with "I". In one of the
debates our beloved leader, Dubya, said something like, "It's either right
or wrong, it's that simple." about a very complex issue. Maybe his sad,
weak mindedness started as a Texas lad with a small decision that there was
only ONE RIGHT way to toss a Bass up on the bank and watch it flop ... who
knows

.... fear the incremental encroachment of such Bushonian anti-truth into your
own mind
/end tongue in cheek mode

Question about loop leaders?
 

Scott Seidman wrote:

Willi & Sue wrote in news:41714164$0$209$75868355
@news.frii.net:


That's what I do. I find it works well. Nail knots with heavy tippet are
easy to tie. Never tried tried loops because I don't see any significant
advantages and for some reason, the loops seem to me out of place.

Willi





I thought the nail knot took advantage of the soft flyline coating to bite
into. I'd be scared to depend on a mono-to-mono nail knot.

Scott


Like I said in another post, it was just another of my brain farts. I
meant blood
knot. I've suffered from intercranial indigestion all my life but it
does seem to have increased in intensity in recent years.

Willi

Question about loop leaders?
 

Scott Seidman wrote:

Willi & Sue wrote in news:41714164$0$209$75868355
@news.frii.net:


That's what I do. I find it works well. Nail knots with heavy tippet are
easy to tie. Never tried tried loops because I don't see any significant
advantages and for some reason, the loops seem to me out of place.

Willi





I thought the nail knot took advantage of the soft flyline coating to bite
into. I'd be scared to depend on a mono-to-mono nail knot.

Scott


Like I said in another post, it was just another of my brain farts. I
meant blood
knot. I've suffered from intercranial indigestion all my life but it
does seem to have increased in intensity in recent years.

Willi

Question about loop leaders?
 

riverman wrote:

"Willi & Sue" wrote in message
...

That's what I do. I find it works well. Nail knots with heavy tippet are
easy to tie.

That should read blood knot. Nail knots are never easy IMO.


Really? I find nail knots in lighter material pretty simple: I just run the
lines parallel, make 3 or 4 large loops, pass the line back through them,
adjust and tighten. In stiff material, using a thin straw makes it very
simple. We all talked about that a few months ago, iirc.

Blood knots, otoh, are a freaking nightmare!

But what do you mean; you use a blood knot to attach the butt to the line,
or the butt to the leader?

Butt to leader and between the sections of my leaders (I tie my own). I
know surgeon's knots are stronger but I started with bloodknots and can
tie them easily, seldom have one break and I like how they look and work.

I don't tie nail knots often enough to make them easy, I generally
replace a leader butt about once a season. With the heavy butt material
I have trouble getting the wraps to lay flat. I often end up with
overlapping wraps. Bruce gave me a modified inflation valve that he uses
to tie slick ones. I usually can't find it when I need it and if I do, I
find that I've forgotten how to use it even though Bruce has shown me
several times.

Willi

Question about loop leaders?
 

riverman wrote:

"Willi & Sue" wrote in message
...

That's what I do. I find it works well. Nail knots with heavy tippet are
easy to tie.

That should read blood knot. Nail knots are never easy IMO.


Really? I find nail knots in lighter material pretty simple: I just run the
lines parallel, make 3 or 4 large loops, pass the line back through them,
adjust and tighten. In stiff material, using a thin straw makes it very
simple. We all talked about that a few months ago, iirc.

Blood knots, otoh, are a freaking nightmare!

But what do you mean; you use a blood knot to attach the butt to the line,
or the butt to the leader?

Butt to leader and between the sections of my leaders (I tie my own). I
know surgeon's knots are stronger but I started with bloodknots and can
tie them easily, seldom have one break and I like how they look and work.

I don't tie nail knots often enough to make them easy, I generally
replace a leader butt about once a season. With the heavy butt material
I have trouble getting the wraps to lay flat. I often end up with
overlapping wraps. Bruce gave me a modified inflation valve that he uses
to tie slick ones. I usually can't find it when I need it and if I do, I
find that I've forgotten how to use it even though Bruce has shown me
several times.

Willi

Question about loop leaders?
 

rw writes:

Bingo. I'll add two more complaints about loops:

(1) No matter how small you make the loops, there will be a section of
the leader with twice the density of the rest of the leader. This can't
be good for delicate casting and presentation.

(2) Once the loops are snugged up into a square knot, I find it just as
difficult and time consuming to change loop connections as it is to tie
a blood knot in heavy mono, if not more so.

Only a putz would have trouble with presentation using a loops. And only a
putz would have trouble changing a loop to loop.

Of course, ymmv.