The Greater Hong Kong Fly Shipment...
 

jeff wrote:

i'm sending some flies to the rich kids in hong kong...well, with
harry's help. ...and i applaud both harry and myron for their efforts.

I don't have any problem with people sending flies to the rich Hong Kong
kids. It's your money, and it's a cool thing that Myron is doing, with
Harry's help. I merely choose not to.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The Greater Hong Kong Fly Shipment...
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 08:44:08 -0500, jeff
wrote:

rw wrote:
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 15:11:18 GMT, wrote:


my "pitch" as it were, was to help riverman turn some kids on to
flyfishing. As to weather they meet some criteria for need was not my
call nor did it matter. If you had come here and asked for flies, I
have done the same thing. Like I did with riverman I would not ask
for any type of means test, I would take you on your word that you
wanted some help.
I did so as a donation and at my cost and or less. If you think I did
this make a dime your sadly mistaken.
As for helping kids... I agree, you have no idea......but lets just
say that chemo makes doing a half hitch difficult.



Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine,
and
if they are in opposition, that's the way life sometimes plays out.
Like
you, it isn't my call who helps or who doesn't, or how. I understand
Myron's reasons for asking for the flies and also understand that folks
might want to send his class some flies. If they send flies from you,
that's their choice. You making or not making a profit really didn't
and doesn't matter to me. As far as I am concerned, this issue is
closed. I have no personal animosity toward you nor would I publicly
or
privately suggest that anyone not do business with you.

R


But that's exactly what you did, publicly. I know you apologized, which
must have been difficult, but now to say that you would never do such a
thing makes your apology ring hollow.

I'm not sending any flies to Myron's rich students, BTW. If I were I
certainly wouldn't crow about it on ROFF. I more-or-less agreed with
your logic, but your manners were a disgrace.


i'm sending some flies to the rich kids in hong kong...well, with
harry's help. ...and i applaud both harry and myron for their efforts. i
didn't consider it part of my annual charitable giving or public
service. i did consider it a return and continuance of the better spirit
and purpose of this place...a place that originally throbbed with
friendships and sharing...not rancor. it was simply a favor being
returned to a "friend"...a way to say thanks.

i have been the beneficiary of the kindness and gifts of many of the
well-off folks who have posted or once posted here. their charity was
undeserved and certainly not needed or required. however, it made a huge
difference in my life and affected some of my own views and conduct ...
for the better. i learned valuable and important things, that in turn
inspired me to share and participate in ways i might not otherwise have
done. in short...kindness and unconditional gifts have a power that
shouldn't have a narrow or rigid focus. ultimately, i think it serves us
all...rich and poor, fortunate and unfortunate.

And I'd generally agree with this, almost completely even, except that
when "well-off folks" give gifts to other presumably "well-off folks"
(i.e., you), it ain't charity, it's, well, well-off folks giving gifts
to other presumably well-off folks. And IMO, that's fine, normal, and
natural, and certainly is a sign of fellowship and friendship. Good
things, indeed. Plus, such things are generally a two-way street, as it
were. But let's not confuse it with "helping" anyone in the purely
practical sense and that is by simple necessity of the situation purely
a "one-way street." Unfortunately, there are many more people in this
world that need the practical help to be able to survive to get to the
warm and fuzzy parts many of us take for granted or think of as our due
than there are those that can participate in a scheme involving well-off
folks exchanging gifts out of friendship.

So, help me out here.......

Just how many people in this group do you believe thought they were going to
save the world by participating in this scheme?

Wolfgang
who begins to believe that some people really should avoid mood altering
substances altogether.

The Greater Hong Kong Fly Shipment...
 

The Greater Hong Kong Fly Shipment...
 

rw wrote:

jeff wrote:


i'm sending some flies to the rich kids in hong kong...well, with
harry's help. ...and i applaud both harry and myron for their efforts.


I don't have any problem with people sending flies to the rich Hong Kong
kids. It's your money, and it's a cool thing that Myron is doing, with
Harry's help. I merely choose not to.


and, likewise, i have no problem with your choice, nor was i being
critical of it. neither myron nor harry were twisting anyone's arm or
wallet...and i never took the original post by myron as any sort of
solicitation. you know the point i was attempting to make...

The Greater Hong Kong Fly Shipment...
 

wrote:
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 08:44:08 -0500, jeff
wrote:


rw wrote:

wrote:


On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 15:11:18 GMT, wrote:



my "pitch" as it were, was to help riverman turn some kids on to
flyfishing. As to weather they meet some criteria for need was not my
call nor did it matter. If you had come here and asked for flies, I
have done the same thing. Like I did with riverman I would not ask
for any type of means test, I would take you on your word that you
wanted some help.
I did so as a donation and at my cost and or less. If you think I did
this make a dime your sadly mistaken.
As for helping kids... I agree, you have no idea......but lets just
say that chemo makes doing a half hitch difficult.



Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine,
and
if they are in opposition, that's the way life sometimes plays out.
Like
you, it isn't my call who helps or who doesn't, or how. I understand
Myron's reasons for asking for the flies and also understand that folks
might want to send his class some flies. If they send flies from you,
that's their choice. You making or not making a profit really didn't
and doesn't matter to me. As far as I am concerned, this issue is
closed. I have no personal animosity toward you nor would I publicly
or
privately suggest that anyone not do business with you.

R


But that's exactly what you did, publicly. I know you apologized, which
must have been difficult, but now to say that you would never do such a
thing makes your apology ring hollow.

I'm not sending any flies to Myron's rich students, BTW. If I were I
certainly wouldn't crow about it on ROFF. I more-or-less agreed with
your logic, but your manners were a disgrace.


i'm sending some flies to the rich kids in hong kong...well, with harry's
help. ...and i applaud both harry and myron for their efforts. i didn't
consider it part of my annual charitable giving or public service. i did
consider it a return and continuance of the better spirit and purpose of
this place...a place that originally throbbed with friendships and
sharing...not rancor. it was simply a favor being returned to a
"friend"...a way to say thanks.

i have been the beneficiary of the kindness and gifts of many of the
well-off folks who have posted or once posted here. their charity was
undeserved and certainly not needed or required. however, it made a huge
difference in my life and affected some of my own views and conduct ...
for the better. i learned valuable and important things, that in turn
inspired me to share and participate in ways i might not otherwise have
done. in short...kindness and unconditional gifts have a power that
shouldn't have a narrow or rigid focus. ultimately, i think it serves us
all...rich and poor, fortunate and unfortunate.


And I'd generally agree with this, almost completely even, except that
when "well-off folks" give gifts to other presumably "well-off folks"
(i.e., you), it ain't charity, it's, well, well-off folks giving gifts
to other presumably well-off folks. And IMO, that's fine, normal, and
natural, and certainly is a sign of fellowship and friendship. Good
things, indeed. Plus, such things are generally a two-way street, as it
were. But let's not confuse it with "helping" anyone in the purely
practical sense and that is by simple necessity of the situation purely
a "one-way street." Unfortunately, there are many more people in this
world that need the practical help to be able to survive to get to the
warm and fuzzy parts many of us take for granted or think of as our due
than there are those that can participate in a scheme involving well-off
folks exchanging gifts out of friendship.

TC,
R

So what is it when someone not so well off chooses to give to Myron's rich
kids?

Op --not so well off--



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

The Greater Hong Kong Fly Shipment...
 

In article ,
wrote:

Whoa...let's recap...we've got a guy in HK at a school which can afford
to kit out the class at LL Bean (but their teacher can't figure out how
to label those rods and reels...) and whose parents or school or
whomever can afford to fly those kids for a week of FFing in NZ, and
you're already had several generous donors, but yet, you're asking for
more _donations_ for flies for this group?!

If that about sums it up, let me be as clear as possible:

**** YOU, **** YOUR FLY SUBSIDY, AND **** MYRON

Why don't you try and raise a little coin for kids who might be have
sorta wanted to, oh, I don't know, eaten in the last week or had
received what is, for such fortunates, a pocket-change worth of medicine
(you know, about the retail cost of a fly or two...) that might save
their lives...

Again, if that about sums it up, just so we're clear:

**** YOU, **** YOUR FLY SUBSIDY, AND **** MYRON

Any questions?
R
...some kids' "wish list" includes stuff like food...with as few flies
as possible...

But Harry Mason is a business man, how does sending money to the
millions of starving and homeless kids Rwanda, the Congo, in any of the
cities of any of the 50 states, or basically any city in the world
benefit him?

The Greater Hong Kong Fly Shipment...
 

In article ,
"Larry L" wrote:

However, I do wonder if you have ever heard this ????


"Profanity is the strong expression of a weak mind"


If you wanted to make a point about giving to more appropriate causes, YOU
destroyed the value of that point by your nasty, thoughtless, spewing. If
I represented St. Jude's or Medecins Sans Frontieres I'd regret the stigma
of having the organization(s) mentioned in such a context.

I think it makes him colorful

The Greater Hong Kong Fly Shipment...
 

In article om,
riverman wrote:

rdean is correct on another count: this is a very well-funded school
and the kids here are not in any way dying, starving or in real
financial need. If you are considering making a donation toward my
trip, I sincerely thank you, but if you have a limited budget for
donations of any sort, send it to MSF or StJudes. The impact will be
much more direct than sending it to me or Harry.

Why are these kids more important than the starving kids in every single
big city in the US? Their is a genocide and rape in Rwanda. You name
me a continent that has over a million people and I will name a city in
it that has starving kids that could use our money.

If you are of considerable means, send your money to the 10 places you
are missing, not a bunch of spoiled rich kids whose parents are sending
the to private school with their own fly rods equipped to them.

Even the most generous person cant come close to contributing to all the
charities for the needy, much less give the charities what they need to
wipe it out.

The Greater Hong Kong Fly Shipment...
 

In article ,
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 03:25:40 -0800, riverman
wrote:

On Nov 8, 12:51 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 03:16:01 GMT, wrote:

is in full swing. We have several generous donors but we could always
use more. Riverman has his wish list pretty much going and about half
subsidized...
You can send your flies to riverman , or... you can buy what you
would like to have sent to riverman, he

Or, if you'd really like to help:

www.stjude.org- St. Jude's

or

www.msf.org -- Medecins Sans Frontieres

or

www.somethingthatwillreallyhelp.whatever- Roll Yer Own



As the faculty sponsor of the Support MSF club that sends tens of
thousands of dollars to MSF yearly, I find it ironic that you included
them in your hate-post. But you're right; I hope that everyone here on
roff is contributing to a charitable organization that is making a
difference directly in the lives of people in need somewhere. I am
under the impression that you did some benevolent work for victims of
Katrina, and that is commendable.

But just in case anyone else misconstrued either Harry's post, or my
FF trip, let me clarify.

rdean is correct on another count: this is a very well-funded school
and the kids here are not in any way dying, starving or in real
financial need. If you are considering making a donation toward my
trip, I sincerely thank you, but if you have a limited budget for
donations of any sort, send it to MSF or StJudes. The impact will be
much more direct than sending it to me or Harry.

But please understand the spirit in which I first mentioned
contributions of flies. I want to influence these kids for the better.
They live in a very artificial urban world; many of them are the
children of CEOs, manufacturers and policial figures, and will grow up
to inherit their parents positions. They are all financially better
off than I am, and probably most of the rest of us here. But they are
not better off where it counts: a relationship with the natural world.
I want these kids to grow up with personal appreciation for a healthy
environment and make decisions that will preserve this. I think
flyfishing is one potentially powerful way to do this.

It will be very meaningful to them when I hand them a flybox and to
say "a bunch of fishermen from all over the world pitched in and got
these for you. Welcome to the community of flyfishermen...please help
us keep our natural world clean." My preference was for hand-tied
flies, but I understand that some folks felt it was easier and more
convenient to send cash to Harry to subsidize my order instead. In
either case, I respect the intent of Giving, and thank those who chose
to do so. Although it may not have the same impact as a hand-tied fly,
it is serendipitous that this will also benefit Harry, one of our own.
So again, thank you, and I will still deliver the flies with the same
message.

But don't let me misrepresent anything: I have a budget for this trip
and the parents have paid in full. I am not in financial need for
donations, and I certainly hope that no one was under that impression.
I think the emotional donation is both real and worth more than the
dollar amount, so I mean this deeply and truly: those who have
contributed; THANK YOU. Those who have chosen not to; no problem at
all, of course! The trip will still happen.

Anyway, for reasons that are hard to explain, I won't comment on this
any more, nor will I publicly mention anything about donations or
donors. If you wish to participate, feel free to do so any way you
choose, and know that it is deeply appreciated. If you choose not to,
know that it will not have any financial impact on my trip, nor any
emotional impact on how I feel about you or roff.

And thank god the world is not like the interior of rdeans mind.

And please accept my apology for including you in the "**** YOU" part. I
think I understand your hard to explain reasons for not wanting to
comment on charity and, well, I'd suspect that you'd understand my
understanding. IAC, based on the above, I was obviously wrong to have
included you, and again, I apologize for having made that mistake.

TC,
R

So you just want to give a personal "**** you" to Harry Mason?

The Greater Hong Kong Fly Shipment...
 

In article .com,
Mike wrote:

Well Dickie boy, because this is a fly-fishing group, and Myron is a
contributor. Harry has very good flies, and he is helping a worthwhile
project. I don?t think he deals in medicine or food packages.

Giving free flies to spoiled kids whose parents send them to a private
school where they are equipped with LL Bean gear and get to go on
fishing trips to New Zealand is a worthy project?

And Harry is giving people a %10 discount?? He could at least sell at
wholesale.

Harry Mason has gone from "do gooder" to "depriver of starving kids" to
SPAMMER.