Tell your senators to defeat the Bush-Cheney energy bill
 

Bob Weinberger wrote:
"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...

rw wrote in
m:

SNIP

In addition, I'm not sure that Natural resource use is directly related to
population growth in the US in this global economy. Think about how much
of our forests get exported. You might be able to better link natural
resource use and world population, but it might not make that much of a
difference where the people are actually located.

SNIP

Scott


Actually we are importing 30-40% of the wood products we use, while
exporting less than 8.25% of the wood we harvest, despite the fact that
total growth of wood in our forests exceeds our total current usage.

Scott?

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Tell your senators to defeat the Bush-Cheney energy bill
 

"Bob Weinberger" wrote in
:


"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
rw wrote in
:
SNIP
In addition, I'm not sure that Natural resource use is directly
related to population growth in the US in this global economy. Think
about how much of our forests get exported. You might be able to
better link natural resource use and world population, but it might
not make that much of a difference where the people are actually
located.
SNIP

Scott

Actually we are importing 30-40% of the wood products we use, while
exporting less than 8.25% of the wood we harvest, despite the fact
that total growth of wood in our forests exceeds our total current
usage.


--
Bob Weinberger
Forest Management Consulting





I stand corrected!

Just out of curiosity, how much of that exported wood is raw lumber, vs
processed lumber (like furniture or some such)? I assume most of the
imports are processed.

Scott

Tell your senators to defeat the Bush-Cheney energy bill
 

rw wrote in
:

Bob Weinberger wrote:
"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...

rw wrote in
om:

SNIP

In addition, I'm not sure that Natural resource use is directly
related to population growth in the US in this global economy. Think
about how much of our forests get exported. You might be able to
better link natural resource use and world population, but it might
not make that much of a difference where the people are actually
located.

SNIP

Scott


Actually we are importing 30-40% of the wood products we use, while
exporting less than 8.25% of the wood we harvest, despite the fact
that total growth of wood in our forests exceeds our total current
usage.

Scott?


Must be all them illegals.

Tell your senators to defeat the Bush-Cheney energy bill
 

rw wrote in
:

Bob Weinberger wrote:
"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...

rw wrote in
om:

SNIP

In addition, I'm not sure that Natural resource use is directly
related to population growth in the US in this global economy. Think
about how much of our forests get exported. You might be able to
better link natural resource use and world population, but it might
not make that much of a difference where the people are actually
located.

SNIP

Scott


Actually we are importing 30-40% of the wood products we use, while
exporting less than 8.25% of the wood we harvest, despite the fact
that total growth of wood in our forests exceeds our total current
usage.

Scott?


Also, shows we have room for some more people.

Scott

Tell your senators to defeat the Bush-Cheney energy bill
 

"steve sullivan" wrote in message
...

Please explain how immigration reform is racist? If you are from mexico
and have a green card and are working legally, great.

Its not. In all deference to friends who disagree . . . . the fact that they
jump to the race card right away, in my experience co-insides with ignorance
of the issue. Its right up there with the bull**** that immigrants don't
cost the society. Anyone who has worked in a few social service/jobs,
welfare or human resource development programs knows better. This whole
area is a blind spot for libs, just like some of the asinine blind spots in
the "conservative" mentality. Interestingly many right-wingers of the
"pro-oligarchy" mode also favor PRO-SLAVE-IMMIGRATION POLICIES.

One thing I've noticed with my lib friends . . . for all their quickness in
jumping to the race card on these issues: if we are in a minority-heavy
situation, they often get weird, stop looking service people in the eye, get
freaky about the food, and persnickety about "service", or even talking to
people. Then afterward they get all preachy. Not all of them, but its
occurred enough for me to notice, particularly in Latino environments and
inner city Afro-American environments. And Im talking here about libs who
were often in social policy or employment situations. Sorry libs, but just
blabbing some outdated 1970ish crap doesn't cut it. Its just a different
side of the same crap from the Right.

Like a lot of things, immigration issues and immigration reform are a lot
more nuanced than simple-minded ideological thinking and slogan shouting can
deal with. Having now probably offended everyone I remain . . .

Dave
Ideology Sucks.

Tell your senators to defeat the Bush-Cheney energy bill
 

Scott Seidman wrote:

Also, shows we have room for some more people.

I see. Whether we net-export a lot of wood products (your original
assertion, unfounded though it was, based on nothing more substantial
than some vague, anecdotal belief) or net-import a lot of wood products
(the actual fact, according to ROFF-resident forrestor Bob Weinberger),
your answer is the same: continued high levels of immigration. It's kind
of like the Republicans and tax cuts -- they're good for what ails ya,
whatever it might be.

I'd like to see a stable population that can use sustainable levels of
resources. I'd like to see this worldwide. Unfortunately, I don't have a
worldwide vote.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Tell your senators to defeat the Bush-Cheney energy bill
 

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Bob Weinberger" wrote in
:

Actually we are importing 30-40% of the wood products we use, while
exporting less than 8.25% of the wood we harvest, despite the fact
that total growth of wood in our forests exceeds our total current
usage.


--
Bob Weinberger
Forest Management Consulting





I stand corrected!

Just out of curiosity, how much of that exported wood is raw lumber, vs
processed lumber (like furniture or some such)? I assume most of the
imports are processed.

Scott

While the majority of what we export is in raw logs and pulp chips, and the
majority of what we import is in at least partially finished products
(mostly sawn lumber for construction or further processing), the specific
ratios/mixes are quite complex, and getting a definitive answer to your
question would take more effort than I'm willing to give - unless of course
you are willing to fund me to undertake such a project.



--
Bob Weinberger
Forest Management Consulting

Tell your senators to defeat the Bush-Cheney energy bill
 

"David Snedeker" wrote in news:bvehqs$fot$0@
216.39.135.226:

"steve sullivan" wrote in message
...

Please explain how immigration reform is racist? If you are from mexico
and have a green card and are working legally, great.

Its not. In all deference to friends who disagree . . . .

Again, I don't think anyone here is saying that immigration reform is
racist--I haven't seen anyone doing that, anyway. We're (or at least,
I'm) saying that blaming overpopulation and increasing human impact on
immigration policy is not right.

There are many things with higher environmental impact than immigration,
like energy policy, or destructive mining practices, for example. Of
course, one could use environmental impact arguments to advance the cause
of immigration reform. We're seeing that here, and that's the source of my
criticism.

If I had meant to say that immigration reform is racist, I would have said
so. I did not.

Scott

Tell your senators to defeat the Bush-Cheney energy bill
 

rw wrote in news:401aca69$0$159
:

Scott Seidman wrote:

Also, shows we have room for some more people.

I see. Whether we net-export a lot of wood products (your original
assertion, unfounded though it was, based on nothing more substantial
than some vague, anecdotal belief) or net-import a lot of wood products
(the actual fact, according to ROFF-resident forrestor Bob Weinberger),
your answer is the same: continued high levels of immigration. It's
kind
of like the Republicans and tax cuts -- they're good for what ails ya,
whatever it might be.

I'd like to see a stable population that can use sustainable levels of
resources. I'd like to see this worldwide. Unfortunately, I don't have
a
worldwide vote.


Do I need to put a smiley at the end of every damn joke I make?

My original argument still hasn't been countered. I don't believe that
immigration is a major input to environmental impact and natural resource
use. Water wars and range wars have been going on in the west since the
west was settled. Apparently, trees are growing out of our ears. We
have enough iron, salt, bauxite, copper, aluminum, etc., whether its
naturally present or imported. Of course, we could use more oil, coal,
natural gas, but you can hardly blame that on immigration, rather than
flawed energy policy. Point to the resource that is being eaten up in a
major way by immigrants (with the possible exception of below-living-wage
jobs), in a manner more substantial than major energy policy and
destructive mining practice, and I'll consider changing my opinion that
arguing for immigration reform from a natural resource standpoint is
racist.


FWIW, I frown on illegal immigration, I believe that the argument that
"citizens don't want to do that kind of work" would fall apart under
living wage legislation (and yes, we would pay more for food), and I
consider the current arrangement to be little better than indentured
servitude. Legal immigration is what's made our country what it is
today. It's why you are here, it's why I am here.

Scott

Tell your senators to defeat the Bush-Cheney energy bill
 

In article ,
Ken Fortenberry wrote:

Don't change the argument. "Overpopulation" does not equal "population
growth".
If all those icky brown people stay on their side of an imaginary and totally
arbitrary line, the world will be neither more nor less "overpopulated". And
anybody who tells you different is a racist.

Immigration reform is not about keeping Mexicans out of the US. It is
about keeping those who come illegally out. I am all for People of all
colors getting a green card and coming here, or becoming a citizen.

Which countrys allow unlimited immigration for any reason? Can I just
sneak into Germany without any papers and be legal? Can I decide to
live and work in Mexico without having any papers?

--
"Those that would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor
security." T. Jefferson
"Those who are ready to sacrifice freedom for security
ultimately will lose both" - Abraham Lincoln