First Fly Rod, Reel and line Questions??
 

Hello,

Thanks to everyone for your advice. I bought a Okuma Sierra reel last
night for $34 which seemed to be a pretty good deal.

The rod I purchased is a Quarrow Big Horn- I've never heard of the
brand and couldn't find much info on them but it seems like a good deal
for $45 including travel case. does anyone have any experience with
this brand of rod?

Now, I have to wait until payday to get line,leader,tippet,flies, etc.
Then I call in sick and go fishing for a few days.

From what I've heard It looks like I'll go with DT line.

Now I'm looking at getting equipped for steelhead, but I think I'll
build my rod eventually, and continue using good old spinning/bait
casting until then. I teach at an outdoor education center and for a
class project we had a custom rod builder come in for 2 hours a day for
a week and 15 kids got to build their own 5ft spinning rods. A great
experience for the kids and me.
You guys have been very helpful-very interesting following the
thread-I'm going to try and stump some of my m-athlete friends w/ the
rope around the earth question.

First Fly Rod, Reel and line Questions??
 

"rw" wrote in message
nk.net...
Wolfgang wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
ink.net...

Wolfgang wrote:

Wolfgang
who, it must be admitted, has absolutely no recollection of raising a
rope a foot above the earth without increasing its length being part of
the original problem description.

Just as you didn't recall that the rope being stretched around the
equator was part of the original problem description.


Actually, I did. You, on the other hand, evidently didn't recall that
the problem you stated was not the original one and that therefore there
was no reason for anyone to assume that the original restriction applied.

In short, you made the same mistake you always do. And, yes, I'll be
delighted to go into detail......if you insist. :)

OK, here's the problem as Joe stated it:

"You have a rope pulled snugly around the earth at the EQUATOR [emphasis
mine] (diameter = 7,926 miles ±). How much length would you need to add
to the rope to raise it 6 inches off the earth at all points?"

Yep, that looks like it.

The obvious answer, and the one that I'm sure Joe expected, and which I
was the first to post, is pi feet.

Thus providing a very strong hint at the same mistake you always make.

There's another, less obvious answer: You don't have to add any length.
Just move the rope approximately .87 miles toward either pole.

Nope, the problem as stated specifically concerned the additional length
needed to raise the rope. Any answer that fails to correctly state by how
much the rope needs to be lengthened is not merely less obvious, it is also
just plain flat wrong.

Try it. See if it works.

I'll try it......if you'll pay for the rope. You'll still be wrong, but
it'll be fun.

After all, you claim to be able to push a rope.

I'd be happy to demonstrate. Hell, I'll even use the same rope. Ship it to
any place in southeastern Wisconsin......I don't think I'll have much
trouble finding it. :)

Wolfgang

First Fly Rod, Reel and line Questions??
 

Wolfgang wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
nk.net...

OK, here's the problem as Joe stated it:

"You have a rope pulled snugly around the earth at the EQUATOR [emphasis
mine] (diameter = 7,926 miles ±). How much length would you need to add
to the rope to raise it 6 inches off the earth at all points?"


Yep, that looks like it.


The obvious answer, and the one that I'm sure Joe expected, and which I
was the first to post, is pi feet.


Thus providing a very strong hint at the same mistake you always make.


There's another, less obvious answer: You don't have to add any length.
Just move the rope approximately .87 miles toward either pole.


Nope, the problem as stated specifically concerned the additional length
needed to raise the rope. Any answer that fails to correctly state by how
much the rope needs to be lengthened is not merely less obvious, it is also
just plain flat wrong.

Nope. You're recklessly "assuming" again. The problem statement doesn't
state that the rope has to stay positioned over the equator -- only that
it has to be "raised." There's an implicit assumption, which I think is
fair, that the rope has to remain in a circular configuration.

There are actually an infinite number of answers that solve the problem
as stated. The problem is what mathematicians call "ill posed."

On the other hand, if you take "need to add" as implying that you want
to MINIMIZE the amount of extra rope, and that you aren't allowed to
REMOVE rope, the unique answer (zero) is the second solution.

If Joe's problem statement were to be unambiguous, with a unique answer,
it should be, "You have a rope pulled snugly around the earth at the
equator (diameter = 7,926 miles ±). What is the MAXIMUM length you can
add to the rope to raise it 6 inches off the earth at all points?"

Assuming a circular rope, of course.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

First Fly Rod, Reel and line Questions??
 

rw wrote in news:kYEPf.2910$Bj7.240
@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:

rw wrote:
Scott Seidman wrote:


Rats. Distributivity gets me again!


There's a way to raise the rope one foot above the surface of the earth
without increasing its length at all. Just move it approximately 308
miles toward either pole.

Oops. I made a small arithmetic error. It should be approximately .87
miles. :-)


Assuming Earth to be a perfect sphere, of course.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

First Fly Rod, Reel and line Questions??
 

Scott Seidman wrote:
rw wrote in news:kYEPf.2910$Bj7.240
@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:


rw wrote:

Scott Seidman wrote:


Rats. Distributivity gets me again!


There's a way to raise the rope one foot above the surface of the earth
without increasing its length at all. Just move it approximately 308
miles toward either pole.

Oops. I made a small arithmetic error. It should be approximately .87
miles. :-)



Assuming Earth to be a perfect sphere, of course.


Indeed.

Also assuming a zero-diameter rope. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

First Fly Rod, Reel and line Questions??
 

"rw" wrote in message
nk.net...

Nope. You're recklessly "assuming" again.

We'll see. :)

The problem statement doesn't state that the rope has to stay positioned
over the equator

Nor does it include the option of any movement other than verticle. So?

-- only that it has to be "raised."

Nope, not ONLY that it has to be raised. If it "has to" be raised in order
to satisfy a condition in the original statement, then it "has to" be
lengthened by the same logic.

There's an implicit assumption, which I think is fair, that the rope has
to remain in a circular configuration.

There's a boatload of implicit assumptions. That's a big part of what makes
the problem interesting. What is MOST interesting, on the face of it, you
missed entirely despite the fact that Joe stated it explicitly. What is NOT
particularly interesting is the correct answer to the problem which is,
after all, simply a number of feet, centimeters, or whatever other unit of
measure one wishes to use, and not an especially interesting number at that,
and which is arrived at by a very simple bit of arithmetic. Also
intrinsically interesting is the fact that many people fail to correctly
identify the means to solve the problem and/or get the wrong answer. The
smokescreen was interesting too. But, most interesting of all......well,
you already given us some hints about that......and then missed the
hints.....which is what really makes it interesting.

There are actually an infinite number of answers that solve the problem as
stated. The problem is what mathematicians call "ill posed."

No, there is exactly one correct answer. The problem was very well posed.
Your failure to understand it doesn't negate that.

On the other hand, if you take "need to add" as implying that you want to
MINIMIZE the amount of extra rope, and that you aren't allowed to REMOVE
rope, the unique answer (zero) is the second solution.

Well, I certainly won't argue against the proposition that it's unique.
:)

If Joe's problem statement were to be unambiguous, with a unique answer,
it should be, "You have a rope pulled snugly around the earth at the
equator (diameter = 7,926 miles ±). What is the MAXIMUM length you can add
to the rope to raise it 6 inches off the earth at all points?"

Well, you evidently thought it was unambiguous enough to be "the first to
post" the "obvious answer" and the one that you're "sure Joe expected". I
mean, how much more unambiguous can something be?

Assuming a circular rope, of course.

No need to assume any such thing. A flat sennit would work just as well.

Wolfgang
who has done a bit of fancy line work in his day.

First Fly Rod, Reel and line Questions??
 

rb608 wrote:
wrote in message

Assuming competent, rational reel design rather than reels "designed to
sell," it's not only typical, but mathematically highly probable.


For whatever reason, this reminded me of a mathematical problem whose answer
is mathematically correct, but (to me anyway) seemed counterintuitive at
first. Here ya go:

You have a rope pulled snugly around the earth at the equator (diameter =
7,926 miles +/-). How much length would you need to add to the rope to
raise it 6 inches off the earth at all points?

I didn't find this problem counterintuitive, although it's a little
tricky. The essential relationship is that circumference is proportional
to diameter, and the constant of proportionality is pi.

The only reason it might be counterintuitive is that the problem
statement includes a large number (7926 miles), which is irrelevant -- a
red herring. That's a tipoff in a mathematic puzzle. It doesn't matter
(to the problem) what the diameter of the earth is.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

First Fly Rod, Reel and line Questions??
 

Wolfgang wrote:
rw wrote:
"You have a rope pulled snugly around the earth at the EQUATOR [emphasis
mine] (diameter = 7,926 miles ±). How much length would you need to add
to the rope to raise it 6 inches off the earth at all points?"

The problem statement doesn't state that the rope has to stay positioned
over the equator

Nor does it include the option of any movement other than verticle. So?

Good god, would you please learn how to read! The question was
ambiguous in that respect. It doesn't state that you can or can not
move the rope away from the equator. Correct answers range from
-7926miles*pi to +1ft*pi.

I like to argue with RW as much as the next guy, but his answer of 0
was pretty nice.
- Ken

First Fly Rod, Reel and line Questions??
 

"rw" wrote in message
nk.net...
rb608 wrote:
wrote in message

Assuming competent, rational reel design rather than reels "designed to
sell," it's not only typical, but mathematically highly probable.


For whatever reason, this reminded me of a mathematical problem whose
answer is mathematically correct, but (to me anyway) seemed
counterintuitive at first. Here ya go:

You have a rope pulled snugly around the earth at the equator (diameter =
7,926 miles +/-). How much length would you need to add to the rope to
raise it 6 inches off the earth at all points?

I didn't find this problem counterintuitive,

Presumably because you have no idea of what the word means.

although it's a little tricky.

Tricky? Good lord. There is nothing the least bit tricky about it. It's a
simple problem in arithmetic. Even you (whose skills are such that you can
pose a similar problem.....and then provide an answer that's off by more
than three orders of magnitude) got it right.

The essential relationship is that circumference is proportional to
diameter, and the constant of proportionality is pi.

No kidding? Is that the tricky part?

The only reason it might be counterintuitive is that the problem statement
includes a large number (7926 miles), which is irrelevant -- a red
herring.

Not a red herring. It's a fact (or a close enough approximation, anyway)
and it is ESSENTIAL to what makes the answer IN FACT counterintuitive.

That's a tipoff in a mathematic puzzle.

We'll try to keep that in mind should we encounter a mathematical puzzle.
Meanwhile, it might (it probably won't......but it might) interest you to
know thats it's also a tipoff to what makes the answer to this little
arithmetical exercise COUNTERINTUITIVE!

It doesn't matter (to the problem) what the diameter of the earth is.

Well, lookee here......the thread is not yet a day old and you've already
found a clue! What a lucky boy you are! :)

Wolfgang

First Fly Rod, Reel and line Questions??
 

wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:
rw wrote:
"You have a rope pulled snugly around the earth at the EQUATOR [emphasis
mine] (diameter = 7,926 miles ±). How much length would you need to add
to the rope to raise it 6 inches off the earth at all points?"

The problem statement doesn't state that the rope has to stay positioned
over the equator

Nor does it include the option of any movement other than verticle. So?

Good god, would you please learn how to read!

Hee, hee, hee.

The question was
ambiguous in that respect. It doesn't state that you can or can not
move the rope away from the equator.

There was nothing at all ambiguous about it. The problem as stated said
nothing at all about movement other than vertical. It DID ask by how much
the rope would need to be LENGTHENED to RAISE it 6 inches. If you are still
having trouble with what it means to raise something, try to think of what
happens to you relative to the position of your seat (or to your blood
pressure, for that matter) every time I do this to you. That should help.
:)

Correct answers range from -7926miles*pi to +1ft*pi.

Nope. Only one right answer

I like to argue with RW as much as the next guy,

Everybody should have a hobby he can hope to master someday.

but his answer of 0 was pretty nice.

No, it was just stupid.

Wolfgang
who assumes he is not the only one to notice that slow learners tend to come
out to play in groups. :)