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"Wayne Knight" wrote in message ups.com... JackL@EpicOdyssey wrote: Hi Wayne: [more good advise snipped.] Jack meet Myron. Myron meet Jack ,g Hi Jack. I'm a fishing addict. --Myron |
"riverman" wrote in message ... SNIP The *backcast* loads the rod, NOT the beginning of the frontcast. His point (which is accepted, btw) is that we all do this horizontally: false cast parallel to the bank before we release out over the water, perpendicular to the direction of our false casts. The V-shaped cast is just a vertical application of this 'around the corner' horizontal cast. Except that I couldn't do it. --riverman Not true. A good caster under normal circumstances will attempt to remove any load from the rod at all on the backcast, ( Drifting!). The forward stroke ( unless you are doing pre-loading tricks, with shooting heads etc), is all that loads the rod. In order to get the line to go where you want it to, you merely need to move the rod tip in that direction. No matter what direction your back cast is, the main purpose is to get the line stretched out from the rod tip in a straight line, with no slack. This also works if you cast the line straight up. The forward motion is more of a thrust and flick, than in a "normal" back/forward cast in the horizontal plane. TL MC |
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"Wayne Knight" wrote in message oups.com... riverman wrote: Your thoughts, Master? I think: 1. You should pay more attention to what Charlie is saying, I think you misunderstand the dyanmics of the cast. Charilie is right about the tip direction. I never doubted him. It was a level of casting analysis I hadn't done, and it was a good discussion. I merely told him what my misconceptions were, and he set me straight, in his inimitable way. g 2. Next time you are in civilization, you need to take your rods to a well stocked fly shop and try some different lines, including maybe one weight up or down, your rods should load *as well* at the 12:00 position, 11:00 position, or the 9:00 position. Hmm, good idea. I think my rods load at all positions, depending on how tidy my retrieve is. What I need is more practice with different style casts, I believe. Watching some folks model them would likely help. 3. Both Kreh and Jaworski have stated longer casts benefit from longer strokes so your rationale that you cast farther using a 9:00 stop versus an 11:00 stop makes sense. Ahh, a lucky hit! :-) But I'm confused about the 9:00 vs 11:00 thing....I stop my casts at 11:00 instead of *2:00* ("think UP, not back..."). Oh wait!! I cast with my right hand....are we getting our clocks reversed? Is there any standardization to this? 4. If after doing #2, you don't find improvement, I would be looking at the rods and trying different models and makers to find the one that *fits* you. This of course involves spending money you may or may not have but may help you in the long run. Most folks know that I love Winston rods generically speaking. But what most people don't know is that I found the Winston LT five weight to be one of the worse rods ever made because how I cast and how that rod cast could not mesh. Most folks I know fishing the LT love them. Ahh, now THATs an idea I like! I think some rod swapping at different claves might be in the making, also. Is that done? 5. Practice change of direction casts, practice using your backcast as your forward cast. They are ackward, but things that can make your success rate better. One of the hardest things for me to learn was to do what jarmo was talking about casting parallel to the river then changing direction perpendicular. Try moving your rod tip to the left and righ as you practice your final forward cast and watch how the fly line moves in relationship to the tippet end. These are things I regularly do. I picked up a book ("The basics of Fly Fishing" by someoneorother) that showed how to cast in a crowded wood: face the trees, cast *into* an open space in the trees, and let the backcast be your delivery cast. I also do this sometimes in windy conditions when I'm on the wrong side of a river: turn around and cast the wrong way, letting the backcast be the delivery. I've gotten pretty dependable with casting parallel to the river, then delivering the fly _across_ the river. That works well in crowded growth situations. But I never really analyzed what my hands or rod were doing; I just 'do it' and it works out well. 6. Pay more attention to what Charlie stated. You want your fly to go in a certain direction, then you gots to point the rod tip in the right place. OK. And Grasshopper, I am no master, if you want a master ask Mike or post this on the Fly Fisherman website, at least three masters post there regularly. I had several nice days of casting practice with Mike, both at the Denmark Clave and again at his house the next year. Again, it was less emphasis on the _mechanics_ of what happens, and more on just 'doing it'. I never pretend to be an advanced caster: I think I might score a C- or D+ on the casting scale. Roger and Mike, on the other hand, amaze me. --riverman |
"Mike Connor" wrote in message ... "riverman" wrote in message ... SNIP The *backcast* loads the rod, NOT the beginning of the frontcast. His point (which is accepted, btw) is that we all do this horizontally: false cast parallel to the bank before we release out over the water, perpendicular to the direction of our false casts. The V-shaped cast is just a vertical application of this 'around the corner' horizontal cast. Except that I couldn't do it. --riverman Not true. A good caster under normal circumstances will attempt to remove any load from the rod at all on the backcast, ( Drifting!). The forward stroke ( unless you are doing pre-loading tricks, with shooting heads etc), is all that loads the rod. In order to get the line to go where you want it to, you merely need to move the rod tip in that direction. No matter what direction your back cast is, the main purpose is to get the line stretched out from the rod tip in a straight line, with no slack. This also works if you cast the line straight up. The forward motion is more of a thrust and flick, than in a "normal" back/forward cast in the horizontal plane. TL MC Yes, agree with Mike, the drift after the stop on the back cast is very important, this allows you to load the rod correctly. On the forward cast, slow the rod down as you accelerate. What this does is take the slack out of the line, and then a thrust or flick at the end of the forward cast at 11:00 will give you those nice tight loops. Some of the best fly casters at the show had a nice smooth gentle cast. It's not about power, let the rod do the work. -tom |
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 23:11:58 +0100, "Mike Connor"
wrote: Not true. A good caster under normal circumstances will attempt to remove any load from the rod at all on the backcast, ( Drifting!). The forward stroke ( unless you are doing pre-loading tricks, with shooting heads etc), is all that loads the rod. The *beginning* of the backcast loads the rod in the same way that the beginning of the forward cast does. The 'drift' lets you get a longer stroke (and thus more line speed) while still being able to apply the power stroke with the tip going up, but I don't think it's required part of a 'normal' cast - normal being 20-40' in most places I fish. FWIW -- Charlie... http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries http://www.chocphoto.com/roff |
Hey Myron:
I'm one too! Nice to meet a fellow addict!! Jack |
Mike Connor wrote:
walk on the meniscus! If I may, Counselor, Hilarious. Russell |
Eric...
I agree. The only way I could see getting more distance would be in that circumstance where your back cast is limited due to brush or trees...and the further out you go, you are able to accomplish a better back cast and thereby making a longer cast. Other than that, I would say that at best, you'd gain one yard for every yard you walk forward into the river. And...at some point, if you wade deep enough, it would be less than that in terms of gaining a one for one trade off on distance. For instance, if you're up to your eyeball in water, then your backcast may start slapping the water behind you if you try to throw too much line. Barry "Eric" wrote in message ... Hi.. I don't understand how you get 2 yards casting distance for every yard you walk out from shore. eric On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 19:26:02 +0100, "riverman" wrote: "snakefiddler" wrote in message ... what has been ya'll's experience with bootfoot waders? with spring comin (soon i hope) i am thinking of getting a pair of three forks 420 denier's, but they only come in a bootfoot for women. so, i'm wondering about the comfort level of the boot, as well as the maneuverability factor, and anything else i may not know to ask about. any *constructive* ;-) input would be appreciated. thanks- snake Here's my experience, in a nutshell. First, I fished from shore. Then I realized that, for every yard I could walk deeper into the water, it increased my casting distance 2 yards out into the deeps. So then I got some mudboots. Mid-calf. It was less than a month before I realized I needed to get farther out. So then I got some hip waders (bootfoot). That lasted until the end of a single season. I realized that I was constantly pushing the boundary and soaking my legs, and needed some honest waders. So I got some mid-belly ones, stockingfoot (as I wanted to be able to wear them in cool and cold water and needed to be able to accomodate different arrangements of socks). Those got stolen, so my next purchase was some stockingfoot armpit-depth waders. Which I love. But those mudboots and bootfoot hipwaders live forever in my closet. Anyway, that has nothing to do with your question, but you asked for my experience. Hey, wasn't there a thread about a year ago about some Simms waders for sale on EBay from some high-maintenance woman who was dumping her suitor, and his gifts? Too bad you didn't get in on those.... --riverman |
I think this is bogus thinking. You have the same amount of line out wether
your on the bank or the middle of the river. I think your making all this harder than you need to. b.anderson "Charlie Choc" wrote in message ... On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 22:53:57 -0500, daytripper wrote: On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 22:55:07 +0100, "riverman" wrote: "rw" wrote in message . com... Eric wrote: Hi.. I don't understand how you get 2 yards casting distance for every yard you walk out from shore. More room for the backcast? Yep. You gain a yard of distance because you are a yard deeper. And you get another yard of line out because you're a yard further from the trees. So your casts reach 2 yards farther out for every yard deeper you wade. Hmmm...."I don't think so, Tim" That extra yard of backcast is the same yard when it's in front of you... Myron measures casting distance as distance from shore. If you are 80' from shore you can make 90' casts with a 9' rod and only 1' of line. g -- Charlie... http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries http://www.chocphoto.com/roff |
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