It's quiet......too quiet.
 

Second (and much more importantly), never.....NEVER!.....let Becky catch you
saying that I (or anyone else) "rescued" her! Trust me.....this is a bad
policy.....no good will come of it.....um.....well, unless you think of pain
as a hobby or something. :(

There are those of us who know how to contact Becky. There are those
of us who would say to her that you mentioned that you rescued her.
There are those of us who believe the fallout would be funnier than a
guy in his tidy-whiteys doing a two-step with a hungry, doped up
bear.
Frank "those of us" Reid

It's quiet......too quiet.
 

"Frank Reid" wrote in message
ups.com...
Second (and much more importantly), never.....NEVER!.....let Becky catch
you
saying that I (or anyone else) "rescued" her! Trust me.....this is a bad
policy.....no good will come of it.....um.....well, unless you think of
pain
as a hobby or something. :(

There are those of us who know how to contact Becky. There are those
of us who would say to her that you mentioned that you rescued her.
There are those of us who believe the fallout would be funnier than a
guy in his tidy-whiteys doing a two-step with a hungry, doped up
bear.
Frank "those of us" Reid

You're an evil man. What's this gonna cost me? :(

Wolfgang

It's quiet......too quiet.
 

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 19:09:29 GMT, "Bob Weinberger"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
Snip

She has paid no attention to the gas gauge and the car suddenly dies,
instantly making both the steering and braking exponentially more
difficult.
snip
Eons ago when I first owned a car and could rarely afford to fill up the
gas
tank ( even in the age of low two digits and a decimal point prices) I
often
ran out of gas. **In the many years since, I have also had occaision to be
in
several cars ( usually as a passenger) when they ran out of gas. Not once
in all those cases did the engine stop suddenly enough to prevent getting
to
the side of the road with all systems working. In every case the engine
gave plenty of advance warning, sputtering or intermittantly cutting out.
**
The major safety risk to running out of gas is to yourself and any
passengers - if you get stranded in winter conditions and run out of gas,
as
tragically happened to a family here in Oregon recently.

Um, "eons ago" cars weren't as often equipped with power-assisted
braking and steering, and I'd step out on a limb and guess that unless
"eons ago" means just 10 years ago (and I'd further guess that given the
gas prices, it doesn't), you had experience with vehicles that didn't
have modern power assist features. As such, you may well not realize
that you would not be as affected as one who has never even ridden in a
car that doesn't have such equipment.

That aside, I can tell you that when a vehicle with such features runs
"out of gas" (or the engine dies for other reasons) at higher speeds
(say, 50-plus mph/100-plus kph), it is most certainly a situation in
which the controls are affected, and anyone unfamiliar with such failure
could easily cause a, er, less-than-humorous situation. Even given
"safety" systems such as vacuum canisters and the that fact it is easier
to turn an unassisted steering wheel when the vehicle is in motion, the
control can be, and often is, greatly affected. The consequences of
those effects are, of course, subjective to the driver. Comprehensive
driving instruction deals with this very issue.

TC,
R

Note bene the sentances set off by asterisks above. "In the many years
since" includes several instances in *modern* cars over the last ten years.

Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR

It's quiet......too quiet.
 

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 18:26:30 GMT, "Bob Weinberger"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 19:09:29 GMT, "Bob Weinberger"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
Snip

She has paid no attention to the gas gauge and the car suddenly dies,
instantly making both the steering and braking exponentially more
difficult.
snip
Eons ago when I first owned a car and could rarely afford to fill up the
gas
tank ( even in the age of low two digits and a decimal point prices) I
often
ran out of gas. **In the many years since, I have also had occaision to be
in
several cars ( usually as a passenger) when they ran out of gas. Not once
in all those cases did the engine stop suddenly enough to prevent getting
to
the side of the road with all systems working. In every case the engine
gave plenty of advance warning, sputtering or intermittantly cutting out.
**
The major safety risk to running out of gas is to yourself and any
passengers - if you get stranded in winter conditions and run out of gas,
as
tragically happened to a family here in Oregon recently.

Um, "eons ago" cars weren't as often equipped with power-assisted
braking and steering, and I'd step out on a limb and guess that unless
"eons ago" means just 10 years ago (and I'd further guess that given the
gas prices, it doesn't), you had experience with vehicles that didn't
have modern power assist features. As such, you may well not realize
that you would not be as affected as one who has never even ridden in a
car that doesn't have such equipment.

That aside, I can tell you that when a vehicle with such features runs
"out of gas" (or the engine dies for other reasons) at higher speeds
(say, 50-plus mph/100-plus kph), it is most certainly a situation in
which the controls are affected, and anyone unfamiliar with such failure
could easily cause a, er, less-than-humorous situation. Even given
"safety" systems such as vacuum canisters and the that fact it is easier
to turn an unassisted steering wheel when the vehicle is in motion, the
control can be, and often is, greatly affected. The consequences of
those effects are, of course, subjective to the driver. Comprehensive
driving instruction deals with this very issue.

TC,
R

Note bene the sentances set off by asterisks above. "In the many years
since" includes several instances in *modern* cars over the last ten years.

Geez, "several instances" over the last ten years, combined with having
done so "often" "eons ago"...what are ya, stupid and blind or something?

Seriously, though, my point was that someone who had experience with
older vehicles (without power assist) could be better suited to deal
with having a loss of power assist. IAC, your experiences are simply
anecdotal, and really can't show that an accident can't result from an
engine stall. But even allowing that your "sputtering" is universal (it
isn't, but...), I'd offer that a "sputtering," with the resultant
variation in power assist, would be as potentially dangerous, if not
more dangerous, depending on the skill and experience of the driver.

TC,
R

Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR

It's quiet......too quiet.
 

wrote in message
...

...IAC, your experiences are simply anecdotal....

Whereas your arguments are, as usual, built on a firm foundation of
pointless speculation on matters that you know nothing about.

Yeah, looks like you're screwed, Bob.

Wolfgang

It's quiet......too quiet.
 

wrote in message
...

Seriously, though, my point was that someone who had experience with
older vehicles (without power assist) could be better suited to deal
with having a loss of power assist. IAC, your experiences are simply
anecdotal, and really can't show that an accident can't result from an
engine stall. But even allowing that your "sputtering" is universal (it
isn't, but...), I'd offer that a "sputtering," with the resultant
variation in power assist, would be as potentially dangerous, if not
more dangerous, depending on the skill and experience of the driver.

TC,
R

So, by your reckoning, conjecture that an accident might happen as a
direct result of loss of power assist systems from running out of gas - in
the absence of any examples that such has ever occurred - has higher
significance than numerous "anecdortal" experiences where immediate total
engine stall (while travelling in gear) and the concurrent loss of power
assist systems never occured absent sufficient warning signs from the
engine that allowed travel to the side of the road with all systems
functioning. BTW the thread relates specifically to running out of gas -
not sudden engine stall.

Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR.

It's quiet......too quiet.
 

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 20:56:20 GMT, "Bob Weinberger"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

Seriously, though, my point was that someone who had experience with
older vehicles (without power assist) could be better suited to deal
with having a loss of power assist. IAC, your experiences are simply
anecdotal, and really can't show that an accident can't result from an
engine stall. But even allowing that your "sputtering" is universal (it
isn't, but...), I'd offer that a "sputtering," with the resultant
variation in power assist, would be as potentially dangerous, if not
more dangerous, depending on the skill and experience of the driver.

TC,
R

So, by your reckoning, conjecture that an accident might happen as a
direct result of loss of power assist systems from running out of gas - in
the absence of any examples that such has ever occurred - has higher
significance than numerous "anecdortal" experiences where immediate total
engine stall (while travelling in gear) and the concurrent loss of power
assist systems never occured absent sufficient warning signs from the
engine that allowed travel to the side of the road with all systems
functioning. BTW the thread relates specifically to running out of gas -
not sudden engine stall.

OK. Here's an excerpt from a case at, AHEM, jeff - the NC Court of
Appeals, from 2004 (the first hit on the search terms - and no, NC was
not one of the terms, it just happened that way...ain't that a
chuckler):

"This appeal arises out of an automobile accident that occurred
on 20 December 1997. On 18 December 2000, plaintiff, Jonathan
Campbell, filed a complaint against defendants Johnny McIlwain,
Ethan Allen, Inc., and D.L. Peterson, Inc., alleging that
McIlwain negligently operated a vehicle he was driving during the
course and scope of his employment with the other two defendants.
On 1 July 2002, *** the trial court entered judgment on a jury
verdict finding defendant McIlwain negligent*** and awarding
plaintiff $32,500 in damages. Defendants appeal. For the
following reasons, we find no error.

On 20 December 1997, plaintiff was heading west on a 1986 Honda
motorcycle on the I-277 entrance ramp in Charlotte, North
Carolina. As plaintiff rounded the curve on the ramp, he saw
defendant's van backing down the ramp into his path. Plaintiff,
who was traveling thirty to forty miles per hour, applied his
brakes, which caused his motorcycle to slide on the pavement,
ultimately hitting the rear of defendant's van. As a result of
the accident, plaintiff sustained injuries that required medical
treatment including knee surgery.

Defendant McIlwain disputed plaintiff's version of the
accident, claiming that as he was entering the on-ramp to I-277,
*** his van ran out of gas.*** He was attempting to move the van to the
left shoulder, when plaintiff rounded the corner and ran into his
van." (emp. add.) _Campbell v. McIlwain_, 163 N.C. App. 553,
593 S.E.2d 799 (2004).

There were 200-plus more...wanna read 'em all?

TC,
R

Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR.

It's quiet......too quiet.
 

On Feb 5, 4:32 pm, wrote:


There were 200-plus more...wanna read 'em all?

Depends. Got one that supports your contention?

Dumbass.

Wolfgang
who's got a shiny new nickel says the boy has no idea what his
contention is. any takers? :)

It's quiet......too quiet.
 

wrote in message
...
snip
On 20 December 1997, plaintiff was heading west on a 1986 Honda
motorcycle on the I-277 entrance ramp in Charlotte, North
Carolina. As plaintiff rounded the curve on the ramp, he saw
defendant's van backing down the ramp into his path. Plaintiff,
who was traveling thirty to forty miles per hour, applied his
brakes, which caused his motorcycle to slide on the pavement,
ultimately hitting the rear of defendant's van. As a result of
the accident, plaintiff sustained injuries that required medical
treatment including knee surgery.

Defendant McIlwain disputed plaintiff's version of the
accident, claiming that as he was entering the on-ramp to I-277,
*** his van ran out of gas.*** He was attempting to move the van to the
left shoulder, when plaintiff rounded the corner and ran into his
van." (emp. add.) _Campbell v. McIlwain_, 163 N.C. App. 553,
593 S.E.2d 799 (2004).

There were 200-plus more...wanna read 'em all?

TC,
R

Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR.

If they are similar incidents to the one you cite, why would I want to read
them all. Let's see, you assert that the safety problem with running out of
gas is the loss of control due to loss of power assist systems as a result
of the sudden (as alleged by you) stalling of the engine. In support of
this you cite a case of a motorcyclist who runs into the back of a van that
the van driver alledges he was manuevering to the side of the road because
he ran out of gas. So how does that relate to a loss of power assist systems
by the vehicle that ran out of gas?

Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR

It's quiet......too quiet.
 

Bob Weinberger wrote:
strawman snipped
So how does that relate to a loss of power assist systems
by the vehicle that ran out of gas?

Geez Bob, you're starting to sound as pugnaciously obtuse as
the Little Wolfie. The contention was that running out of gas
is, legally speaking, negligent. And according to this case
from the North Cackalacky courts, apparently running out of gas
is indeed, legally speaking, negligent.

--
Ken Fortenberry