slow down summer ... whoa, Whoa
 

"JR" wrote


.... and a heightened suspicion that if Madonna posted here on
the matter of nymphomania, some here would insist they knew more
about it than she did....



g

slow down summer ... whoa, Whoa
 

On 2008-04-15, Bob Weinberger wrote:

6. If the needles are.....

Which CA pine tree has bark that smells like a vanilla?

nb

slow down summer ... whoa, Whoa
 

notbob wrote:
On 2008-04-15, Bob Weinberger wrote:


6. If the needles are.....


Which CA pine tree has bark that smells like a vanilla?

nb

Ponderosa.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

slow down summer ... whoa, Whoa
 

Larry L wrote:
"Russell D." wrote


It snowed a half inch here in Spanish Fork, UT yesterday. This winter has
about caused me to lose faith in global warming.

Russell

Who would like to get his garden going.


This could be a great year for you to take a trip back home, Russell

It's always a great year to take a trip home. :-) I only have one trip
planned (so far) this year for the July 4th weekend which is . . .


That lovely river snaking through one of God's most splendid efforts just
might be pretty high until late July, however G



.. . . too early for that lovely river. Won't be much time for fishing
anyway with family activities taking a priority. I probably won't even
take a rod so the temptation is not there.


Russell

slow down summer ... whoa, Whoa
 

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2008-04-15, Bob Weinberger wrote:

6. If the needles are.....

Which CA pine tree has bark that smells like a vanilla?

nb

That would be Jeffrey Pine. It looks very much like Ponderosa Pine and in
fact people who know less than they think they do about forestry issues do
not distinguish it from Ponderosa.
That's somewhat understandable since it was only designated as a seperate
species in the mid 1850's.
It can be distinguished from Ponderosa by:
1. The odor of its bark which comes from n-heptane, which Jeffrey produces,
but which is largely absent in Ponderosa. This odor, though most commonly
described as Vanilla-like has also been described as like Pineapple, Lemon,
and even apple, and violets. Ponderosa either has a neutral or a turpentine
smell.
2. The waxy gray-green needles compared to Ponderosa's much brighter green
needles.
3. The needles always in bundles of three - Ponderosa may be in bundles of
either two or three (sometimes both examples on the same tree).
4. Stouter heavier cones and larger seed than Ponderosa and with the barbs
on the ends of the cone scales pointing inward rather than straight.
5. Smaller bark scales on mature trees compared to the larger orange
colored plates on Ponderosa.

Jeffrey Pine is quite common in the Sierras and is most dominant on
serpentine soils (named for the parent material - serpentine- a waxy feeling
greenish rock) and also at higher elevations where Ponderiosa doesn't do
well.


Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR

slow down summer ... whoa, Whoa
 

Bob Weinberger wrote:
"notbob" wrote in message
...

On 2008-04-15, Bob Weinberger wrote:


6. If the needles are.....

Which CA pine tree has bark that smells like a vanilla?

nb


That would be Jeffrey Pine. It looks very much like Ponderosa Pine and in
fact people who know less than they think they do about forestry issues do
not distinguish it from Ponderosa.

From the US Forest Service site:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/helena/resou...rosaPine.shtml

"Artificial vanilla is made from the bark of ponderosa pine. Old yellow
barked ponderosa sometimes smell of vanilla."

Also from this site:

"Ponderosa pine has been affected by fire suppression. By putting fires
out in the forest for the last hundred years we have encouraged the
build up of fuels and younger trees."

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

slow down summer ... whoa, Whoa
 

"rw" wrote in message
...
Bob Weinberger wrote:

From the US Forest Service site:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/helena/resou...rosaPine.shtml

"Artificial vanilla is made from the bark of ponderosa pine. Old yellow
barked ponderosa sometimes smell of vanilla."

Also from this site:

"Ponderosa pine has been affected by fire suppression. By putting fires
out in the forest for the last hundred years we have encouraged the build
up of fuels and younger trees."

As to the first quote: it looks like I have to add the Helena USFS office
to the list of those USFS offices that no longer have any personnel with
actual forest ecology education; or maybe the article was not written by or
reviewed by anyone with such training/knowledge.

However, I totally agree with the second quote. If you had read my posts on
the subject, without your blinders on, you would have noted that I said
virtually the same thing several times. You apparently can't distinguish
between the properties/ecology of Ponderosa pine and Lodgepole pine any
better than you can between Ponderosa pine and Jeffery pine.

Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR

slow down summer ... whoa, Whoa
 

Bob Weinberger wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
...

Bob Weinberger wrote:


From the US Forest Service site:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/helena/resou...rosaPine.shtml

"Artificial vanilla is made from the bark of ponderosa pine. Old yellow
barked ponderosa sometimes smell of vanilla."

As to the first quote: it looks like I have to add the Helena USFS office
to the list of those USFS offices that no longer have any personnel with
actual forest ecology education; or maybe the article was not written by or
reviewed by anyone with such training/knowledge.

You'd better add the Ministry of Forest and Range in British Columbia to
your list as well:

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/library...derosapine.htm

"On a hot day, the bark of the ponderosa pine smells like vanilla and
when you break a young twig it smells somewhat like oranges."

And also the National Park Service:

http://www.nps.gov/brca/naturescience/ponderosapine.htm

"One can easily identify some trees by smelling their bark. Ponderosa
Pine bark smells like vanilla or butterscotch."

This is too funny. You certainly are quite the expert.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

slow down summer ... whoa, Whoa
 

"rw" wrote in message
m...
Bob Weinberger wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
...

Bob Weinberger wrote:


From the US Forest Service site:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/helena/resou...rosaPine.shtml

"Artificial vanilla is made from the bark of ponderosa pine. Old yellow
barked ponderosa sometimes smell of vanilla."

As to the first quote: it looks like I have to add the Helena USFS
office to the list of those USFS offices that no longer have any
personnel with actual forest ecology education; or maybe the article was
not written by or reviewed by anyone with such training/knowledge.

You'd better add the Ministry of Forest and Range in British Columbia to
your list as well:

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/library...derosapine.htm

"On a hot day, the bark of the ponderosa pine smells like vanilla and when
you break a young twig it smells somewhat like oranges."

And also the National Park Service:

http://www.nps.gov/brca/naturescience/ponderosapine.htm

"One can easily identify some trees by smelling their bark. Ponderosa Pine
bark smells like vanilla or butterscotch."

This is too funny. You certainly are quite the expert.

God how it must hurt to be you.

Wolfgang
the boy doesn't even know when (or why) he's right.......it IS funny.
:)

slow down summer ... whoa, Whoa
 

"rw" wrote in message
m...

You'd better add the Ministry of Forest and Range in British Columbia to
your list as well:

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/library...derosapine.htm

"On a hot day, the bark of the ponderosa pine smells like vanilla and when
you break a young twig it smells somewhat like oranges."

And also the National Park Service:

http://www.nps.gov/brca/naturescience/ponderosapine.htm

"One can easily identify some trees by smelling their bark. Ponderosa Pine
bark smells like vanilla or butterscotch."

This is too funny. You certainly are quite the expert.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.


Well much as I hate to get into trading URL cites to make a point it is easy
enough to cite numerous authoritative sites, so I will do so. You might try
getting your information from institutions of higher learning or other
organizations that write articles for those with more than a cursory
interest in the subject instead of blurbs written by agencies for a general
public that really doesn't care about the distinctions between Ponderosa
pine and Jeffery pine.

http://trees.stanford.edu/ENCYC/PINjeff.htm
"The bark is constructed in flakes shaped like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle
which, unlike ponderosa pine, smell like vanilla when freshly broken off."

http://www.csus.edu/indiv/g/gervaisb...ld/webpage.htm
"Ponderosa pine and Jeffrey pine can be found together in extensive forests.
These trees are very similar in morphology. However, the Jeffrey can be
easily distinguished from the ponderosa by its aromatic bark, which is
described as smelling like vanilla or butterscotch."

http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ldplants/pijef-po.htm
" Some characteristics to distinguish between Pinus ponderosa and Pinus
jeffreyi

Plant part Pinus ponderosa
Ponderosa Pine Pinus jeffreyi
Jeffrey Pine
Needles (leaves) 3/bundle green bluish green to green
Seed cones 9-15 cm long 12.5-25 cm long
Dry cone-scales prickles curve outward prickles curve inward
New twigs, color yellowish green to olive brown purplish or bluish
white to bluish green
Crushed twigs, odor resinous, of orange or tangerine rind not easy to
describe, vanilla, pineapple, apple
Branches, old trees distinctly stout, often bent, ends slightly
upturned slender, elongate, straight, ends distinctly upturned
"

http://www.fs.fed.us/r1-r4/spf/fhp/m...ne/jeffery.pdf
"...(Pinus ponderosa Dougl. ex Laws), a tree often found growing in
association with Jeffrey pine and can be incorrectly identified as Jeffrey
pine. Some distinguishing characteristics between these two tree species
include the bent-back prickle at the end of P. jeffreyi cone scales, the
vanilla (and other) odors eluted by the cambial layer of P. jeffreyi."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Pine
"Jeffrey Pine is also very distinct from Ponderosa Pine in its resin scent,
variously described as reminiscent of vanilla, lemon, pineapple, violets, or
apples;[3] compared to the turpentine or odorless scent of Ponderosa Pine."

http://www.wildflower.org/plants/res...?id_plant=PIJE
"Jeffery pine has blue-green twisted needles 7-9 in. long. Grows from 40-90
ft. with a pyramidal open crown. Old trees are devoid of branches for more
than 1/2 of their height. Cinnamon-brown to yellow-orange flaky bark. Cones
are 6-9 in. long. Large tree with straight axis and open conical crown of
spreading branches and with large cones. Both bark and twigs give off odor
of lemon or vanilla when crushed."

http://www.fao.org/docrep/X0453E/X0453e10.htm
"All went well if the resin was taken from ponderosa pine, Pinus ponderosa,
but what turpentiners did not know was that the resin of Jeffery pine, P.
jeffreyi, contained heptane, the same inflammable product found in
petroleum. Even a trained forester or botanist can have difficulty
separating these two species."

http://www.oceanoasis.org/fieldguide/pinu-jef.html
"The bark and wood of this pine gives off the scent of vanilla."

http://selectree.calpoly.edu/treedetail.lasso?rid=1052
"Bark has vanilla scent."

http://www.conifers.org/pi/pin/jeffreyi.htm
"Bark yellow-brown to cinnamon, thick, deeply furrowed and cross-checked,
forming large irregular scaly plates, with odor of lemon and vanilla during
the growing season."

http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/departme...n/JEFFPINE.HTM
"Bark is deeply furrowed and reddish-brown when compared to ponderosa pine
(which is more orange), with a strong vanilla or pineapple odor."

http://www.enature.com/flashcard/sho...dNumber=TS0040
"Both bark and twigs give off odor of lemon or vanilla when crushed."


Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR