OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
 

In article ,
Larry L writes
The e-collar is certainly NOT the tool for most people, but I seriously
doubt that a dog can be found "soft" enough to not be trainable with one ...
and produce a happy, tail wagging result ... remember, HUMAN NATURE, not
dog nature is the biggest problem in dog training ..

I certainly think that an e-collar is totally unnecessary to train a
Labrador.

It may be a last resort with some of the more aggressive breeds but a
good dog trainer will not need such barbaric tools.

I suggest folk Google Dr Ian Dunbar who can give excellent advice on
puppy training who can advise on basic puppy training
--
Bill Grey

OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
 

W. D. Grey wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Larry L wrote:
A dog from British Trial lines is an EXCELLENT choice for a gun dog
... mainly because of the quieter temperament
You'll do great Ken, keep us updated ... got a name yet?

Thanks Larry. We want a name that reflects the Irish in her
bloodline and starts with a K. (My wife is Kristine with a
K, my first name starts with a K, so there you have it. ;-)
I'm leaning toward Kerry and my wife seems partial to Kelty.

Whatever it must be a regal name worthy of a proper dog :-)

Thanks Bill, we've settled on Kaylin. Kaylin is the American
spelling of the Gaelic word for lass, Cailin. It works out
perfectly for our purposes, Irish roots, American spelling,
means girl, perfect. I know she'll be a proper dog, I just
hope I'm worthy of her.

--
Ken Fortenberry

OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
 

W. D. Grey wrote:
snip
Good luck with your Labrador - the finest dogs possible in my opinion -
then I'm very biased indeed :-)

Oh yes Black is beautiful.

Well, Kaylin is a yellow Lab. My wife insisted on a yellow one
for whatever reason.

And thanks for the advice. She's already enrolled in Puppy Kindergarten
at our local Dog Training Club. That'll give me a chance to review
the things I learned and the things I forgot when I trained Kipper.
Plus she'll get to socialize with other puppies and other people.

--
Ken Fortenberry

OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
 

W. D. Grey wrote:

In article , jeff miller
writes

at $1500 a puppy, what do you think that investment yields?


Unbelievable loyalty, love , affection, companionship , unerring devotion,

..............keeps your feet warm on the sofa :-)

no doubt...but, i was interested in whether larry's experience with
field trial/hunting dogs indicated a higher probability of success with
a more expensive dog - 1500 being a fairly typical fee now for an akc or
pure bred dog from a quality breeder/kennel versus the usual akc dog one
can acquire at about a third of that cost from a trustworthy individual
or lesser known kennel. I have a friend who used to breed a litter of
good quality akc black labs for sale for about $400...mainly for hunting
but good enough for field trial too. I was interested in larry's
impressions of the qualitative difference justified by the extra cost
assuming both dogs were healthy pure breeds with proper documentation.

jeff

OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
 

OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
 

In article , jeff miller
writes
W. D. Grey wrote:

In article , jeff
miller writes

at $1500 a puppy, what do you think that investment yields?
Unbelievable loyalty, love , affection, companionship , unerring
devotion,
..............keeps your feet warm on the sofa :-)

no doubt...but, i was interested in whether larry's experience with
field trial/hunting dogs indicated a higher probability of success with
a more expensive dog - 1500 being a fairly typical fee now for an akc
or pure bred dog from a quality breeder/kennel versus the usual akc dog
one can acquire at about a third of that cost from a trustworthy
individual or lesser known kennel. I have a friend who used to breed a
litter of good quality akc black labs for sale for about $400...mainly
for hunting but good enough for field trial too. I was interested in
larry's impressions of the qualitative difference justified by the
extra cost assuming both dogs were healthy pure breeds with proper
documentation.

jeff

Quite so Jeff - it depends on what your aspirations are. 9 years ago I
paid about 450 uk pounds for my pure bred Labrador and I'm sure the
price is now equivalent to the 1500 dollars mentioned.

To get anywhere in showing a dog you must have a good stock dog or
bitch. Mine did manage to qualify and enter Crufts - quite an
experience.

It is quite possible that a less highly bred animal will have more
resistance to certain illnesses, and might even be a bit more
intelligent.

What the hell - Labs are lovely :-)
--
Bill Grey

OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
 

W. D. Grey wrote:
jeff miller writes
W. D. Grey wrote:
jeff miller writes
at $1500 a puppy, what do you think that investment yields?
Unbelievable loyalty, love , affection, companionship , unerring
devotion,
..............keeps your feet warm on the sofa :-)

no doubt...but, i was interested in whether larry's experience with
field trial/hunting dogs indicated a higher probability of success
with a more expensive dog - 1500 being a fairly typical fee now for an
akc or pure bred dog from a quality breeder/kennel versus the usual
akc dog one can acquire at about a third of that cost from a
trustworthy individual or lesser known kennel. I have a friend who
used to breed a litter of good quality akc black labs for sale for
about $400...mainly for hunting but good enough for field trial too. I
was interested in larry's impressions of the qualitative difference
justified by the extra cost assuming both dogs were healthy pure
breeds with proper documentation.

Quite so Jeff - it depends on what your aspirations are. 9 years ago I
paid about 450 uk pounds for my pure bred Labrador and I'm sure the
price is now equivalent to the 1500 dollars mentioned.

To get anywhere in showing a dog you must have a good stock dog or
bitch. Mine did manage to qualify and enter Crufts - quite an experience.

It is quite possible that a less highly bred animal will have more
resistance to certain illnesses, and might even be a bit more intelligent.

What the hell - Labs are lovely :-)

On this side of the pond there are several differences between a
$1500 Labrador puppy from a reputable breeder and a $500 Labrador
puppy from Billy Bob's Backyard Kennel and Transmission Repair.

Besides pedigree the following information about my puppy's sire
and dam is documented and available for inspection:

Hip scores
Elbow certification
KC Eye certification

In addition the sire's documents include DNA testing for:

PRA
NARC
Labrador Myopathy

My puppy comes with a one year unconditional guarantee. If for
any reason the puppy isn't satisfactory I can take her back for
a full refund of the purchase price.

My puppy comes with a health guarantee. She is guaranteed to
pass her OFA hip and OFA elbow test at age 2, her eyes are
guaranteed to be clear and she is guaranteed to be free of
genetic disorders. If she is diagnosed with any genetic disorder
through her 30th month I can get a new puppy for free. And the
kennel doesn't want the first dog back, they just insist that
it be neutered.

Billy Bob doesn't charge as much for a puppy, but then Billy Bob
rarely guarantees his puppies.

What I don't get for $1500 that I could get for $500 from
Billy Bob is full AKC papers. My puppy will come with AKC Limited
Registration which means that her offspring cannot be registered
with the AKC. One of the reasons reputable breeders do this is
so their dogs don't end up in Billy Bob's Backyard Kennel and
Transmission Repair.

I would never buy a dog from Billy Bob but if some divorce lawyer
wanted to buy such a dog it wouldn't be any skin off my nose and
I sure as hell wouldn't try to stir up **** on roff about it.

--
Ken Fortenberry

OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
...
W. D. Grey wrote:
jeff miller writes
W. D. Grey wrote:
jeff miller writes
at $1500 a puppy, what do you think that investment yields?
Unbelievable loyalty, love , affection, companionship , unerring
devotion,
..............keeps your feet warm on the sofa :-)

no doubt...but, i was interested in whether larry's experience with
field trial/hunting dogs indicated a higher probability of success with
a more expensive dog - 1500 being a fairly typical fee now for an akc or
pure bred dog from a quality breeder/kennel versus the usual akc dog one
can acquire at about a third of that cost from a trustworthy individual
or lesser known kennel. I have a friend who used to breed a litter of
good quality akc black labs for sale for about $400...mainly for hunting
but good enough for field trial too. I was interested in larry's
impressions of the qualitative difference justified by the extra cost
assuming both dogs were healthy pure breeds with proper documentation.

Quite so Jeff - it depends on what your aspirations are. 9 years ago I
paid about 450 uk pounds for my pure bred Labrador and I'm sure the price
is now equivalent to the 1500 dollars mentioned.

To get anywhere in showing a dog you must have a good stock dog or bitch.
Mine did manage to qualify and enter Crufts - quite an experience.

It is quite possible that a less highly bred animal will have more
resistance to certain illnesses, and might even be a bit more
intelligent.

What the hell - Labs are lovely :-)

On this side of the pond there are several differences between a
$1500 Labrador puppy from a reputable breeder and a $500 Labrador
puppy from Billy Bob's Backyard Kennel and Transmission Repair.

Besides pedigree the following information about my puppy's sire
and dam is documented and available for inspection:

Hip scores
Elbow certification
KC Eye certification

In addition the sire's documents include DNA testing for:

PRA
NARC
Labrador Myopathy

My puppy comes with a one year unconditional guarantee. If for
any reason the puppy isn't satisfactory I can take her back for
a full refund of the purchase price.

My puppy comes with a health guarantee. She is guaranteed to
pass her OFA hip and OFA elbow test at age 2, her eyes are
guaranteed to be clear and she is guaranteed to be free of
genetic disorders. If she is diagnosed with any genetic disorder
through her 30th month I can get a new puppy for free. And the
kennel doesn't want the first dog back, they just insist that
it be neutered.

Billy Bob doesn't charge as much for a puppy, but then Billy Bob
rarely guarantees his puppies.

What I don't get for $1500 that I could get for $500 from
Billy Bob is full AKC papers. My puppy will come with AKC Limited
Registration which means that her offspring cannot be registered
with the AKC. One of the reasons reputable breeders do this is
so their dogs don't end up in Billy Bob's Backyard Kennel and
Transmission Repair.

I would never buy a dog from Billy Bob but if some divorce lawyer
wanted to buy such a dog it wouldn't be any skin off my nose and
I sure as hell wouldn't try to stir up **** on roff about it.

On bad days, the only thing that relieves the pai........well, actually,
nothing does. :)

Wolfgang
who, if the current rash of devastating cleverness continues much longer,
really is going to wet himself.

OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
 

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

W. D. Grey wrote:

jeff miller writes

W. D. Grey wrote:

jeff miller writes

at $1500 a puppy, what do you think that investment yields?

Unbelievable loyalty, love , affection, companionship , unerring
devotion,
..............keeps your feet warm on the sofa :-)


no doubt...but, i was interested in whether larry's experience with
field trial/hunting dogs indicated a higher probability of success
with a more expensive dog - 1500 being a fairly typical fee now for
an akc or pure bred dog from a quality breeder/kennel versus the
usual akc dog one can acquire at about a third of that cost from a
trustworthy individual or lesser known kennel. I have a friend who
used to breed a litter of good quality akc black labs for sale for
about $400...mainly for hunting but good enough for field trial too.
I was interested in larry's impressions of the qualitative difference
justified by the extra cost assuming both dogs were healthy pure
breeds with proper documentation.


Quite so Jeff - it depends on what your aspirations are. 9 years ago
I paid about 450 uk pounds for my pure bred Labrador and I'm sure the
price is now equivalent to the 1500 dollars mentioned.

To get anywhere in showing a dog you must have a good stock dog or
bitch. Mine did manage to qualify and enter Crufts - quite an
experience.

It is quite possible that a less highly bred animal will have more
resistance to certain illnesses, and might even be a bit more
intelligent.

What the hell - Labs are lovely :-)


On this side of the pond there are several differences between a
$1500 Labrador puppy from a reputable breeder and a $500 Labrador
puppy from Billy Bob's Backyard Kennel and Transmission Repair.

Besides pedigree the following information about my puppy's sire
and dam is documented and available for inspection:

Hip scores
Elbow certification
KC Eye certification

In addition the sire's documents include DNA testing for:

PRA
NARC
Labrador Myopathy

My puppy comes with a one year unconditional guarantee. If for
any reason the puppy isn't satisfactory I can take her back for
a full refund of the purchase price.

My puppy comes with a health guarantee. She is guaranteed to
pass her OFA hip and OFA elbow test at age 2, her eyes are
guaranteed to be clear and she is guaranteed to be free of
genetic disorders. If she is diagnosed with any genetic disorder
through her 30th month I can get a new puppy for free. And the
kennel doesn't want the first dog back, they just insist that
it be neutered.

Billy Bob doesn't charge as much for a puppy, but then Billy Bob
rarely guarantees his puppies.

What I don't get for $1500 that I could get for $500 from
Billy Bob is full AKC papers. My puppy will come with AKC Limited
Registration which means that her offspring cannot be registered
with the AKC. One of the reasons reputable breeders do this is
so their dogs don't end up in Billy Bob's Backyard Kennel and
Transmission Repair.

I would never buy a dog from Billy Bob but if some divorce lawyer
wanted to buy such a dog it wouldn't be any skin off my nose and
I sure as hell wouldn't try to stir up **** on roff about it.


yeah, right...sure you wouldn't. in fact, as anyone who pays attention
should be able to notice, you're the one who sniffs about, stoops, drops
a load, and stirs away. however, whatever **** offends your peculiar
olfactory typically emanates from your own putrid mind and lips.

the claim you wouldn't buy an akc dog from someone you knew - a friend -
but you have admitted you bought a dog from a pound? some more of your
pointed logic...about as good as some of your other stupid statements.

tell you what...i'll buy an akc lab from my friend. in two years, after
your warranty expires, let's have larry compare the two dogs and tell us
what he thinks. you're buying a warranty; i'm buying a dog.

jeff

OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...
 

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:06:10 -0400, jeff miller
wrote:


tell you what...i'll buy an akc lab from my friend. in two years, after
your warranty expires, let's have larry compare the two dogs and tell us
what he thinks. you're buying a warranty; i'm buying a dog.

Now that's just sick...two poor, innocent doggies totally ruint - one
who can't type in anything but lowercase and has lost the instinct to
bite lawyers on sight and another who thinks Budweiser is a beer and
Illinois is a football team...and both Democrats...well, you two
*******s try anything that heinous and I'll call them Animal Planet
Petcops on the pair of ya...

The curse of St Francis on the pair of ya,
R
....OTOH, Larry sounds like a fairly sensible guy...he'd probably fit ya
both with some of them shock collars that go to 11...

jeff