"No surprise that life's road can feel different . . . in crappyshoes
 

On Jan 5, 12:39*pm, David LaCourse wrote:

Wish I had said that! *d;o) *I agree whole heartedly, but the
health/medical thingy has changed since I was a kid. *When I grew up in
the 40s/early 50s, there was no health care. *How the hell did we
survive, I wonder. *

Must have been the leeches.

"No surprise that life's road can feel different . . . in crappy shoes
 

"David LaCourse" wrote in message
news:201001041720588930-dplacourse@aolcom...
They truly need help, but many have made
bad decisions and continue to make more bad decisions, and ride the system
for all it's worth. They are happy with their lives, afaik, and wouldn't
change if it meant working for what they get.


and, if you wonder, THIS is the absolute piece of stupidity that drew my
ire. You dare to call yourself a Christian?? Judge not, lest......etc, etc.
Tom

"No surprise that life's road can feel different . . . in crappyshoes
 

On Jan 5, 4:39*am, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
"David LaCourse" wrote in message

news:2010010422410250878-dplacourse@aolcom...

hmmm.....we have a 5 year limit on welfare, since the '90s
and they're 3rd generation??

Depends on what kind of welfare. Remember, you're talking to someone
with a lifetime of first hand experience.

Sometimes, we think we see, but don't, if you
get what I mean. You have judged them 'pathetic'. You have guessed they
'vote Obama all the way', and that they wish to continue a lifestyle of
dependance on your food kitchen. It might not be them that's pathetic........

Well. that's all true enough.

"No surprise that life's road can feel different . . . in crappyshoes
 

On Jan 5, 7:47*am, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-01-05 05:39:19 -0500, "Tom Littleton" said:



"David LaCourse" wrote in message
news:2010010422410250878-dplacourse@aolcom...

hmmm.....we have a 5 year limit on welfare, since the '90s
and they're 3rd generation?? Sometimes, we think we see, but don't, if you
get what I mean. You have judged them 'pathetic'. You have guessed they
'vote Obama all the way', and that they wish to continue a lifestyle of
dependance on your food kitchen. It might not be them that's pathetic........
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Tom

I know *personally* the three generation remark. *My own brother was on
welfare, his youngest followed in his steps, and one of her children
was on welfare. *My neice still lives in subsidized housing, as did my
brother until he died. When I see the same people for more than 3 years
coming to get their once-a-month food allowance and they have their
children with their children in tow, yeah, I see third generation
poverty, three generations that have not advanced, who have been lost,
swept between the cracks in the floor, and the only answer you have is
to turn away and ignore them? *Shame on you. *I call them pathetic
meaning sad, not *your* usual meaning of the word contemptuous pity.
There are five food banks/pantries available to them once a month. *
They visit all of them and get enough food for an entire month. *That
is sad. *A five year limit on welfare? *There is no limit on how long
these sad souls can live in subsidized housing or visit the food
pantries.

For two or three weeks after the 2008 election, many of the clients
were overwhelmed with joy. *It was like their messiah had finally come
home. *I don't know if they even voted, but they sure as hell were glad
that Obama and all of his fluff promises was elected. *The same people
three days a week, 52 weeks a year for several years. **That* is
pathetic (my definition, not yours). *We have literally lost three
generations of peope because they rely on government entitlements.

But thinks are looking up, Tom. *With the redistribution of wealth that
Obama and Emanuel want, these poor souls will have as much as you and I
have -- we'll all be pathetic (my definition, not yours). *Of course
the ruling class, Obama, Biden, the Kennedys, Bushes, Cheney, et al
will continue their rape of the people.

Why do you people argue with this evil pig?

Seriously.

giles.

"No surprise that life's road can feel different . . . in crappyshoes
 

On Jan 4, 9:51*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-01-04 21:30:04 -0500, Giles said:





On Jan 4, 4:20 pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-01-04 14:48:33 -0500, DaveS said:

On Jan 4, 5:10 am, David LaCourse wrote:

No, that is what he is saying. However, from my experience, he is
wrong (at least here in the left wingnut state of Massachusetts). I
work in a food pantry and I've yet to meet someone like Dave has
described. Most of our clients have been coming to the pantry for
years. There has been new ones in the past year, but they are the
working poor, and from talking with them, I doubt any are Republicans
let alone conservatives.

Most of the volunteers did not vote for Obama. All of the clients
probably did vote for Obama.

Dave

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well OK
1. No I am not saying that a disproportionate number of conservatives
are going to food banks. How could I know that? Maybe we have
different definitions of proportionate? For me, it would mean that a
higher proportion (%) of the total universe of conservatives are
coming to food banks, THAN the proportion (%) of the universe of
others who come to food banks.
2. What I am saying is that based on my experiences in the past, and
some current observations and info, I believe that a larger number of
people with conservative political beliefs are coming to food banks
(and other human services) than do in non recessionary times.

Could be true, I guess. But, in my experience looking over the past
year most of the new clients at the food bank I volunteer at are the
working poor, blue collar workers, not your typical conservative. This
is also true at three or four other food banks/pantries in the area
that I am familiar with, including one in a well-to-do community.

And . . .
3. Again from experience, not survey or experiment, these folk are
typically new comers to needing assistance and are often very
emotional, sometimes hostile and demanding, and rarely but regularly
threatening. Its hard times and they are not used to asking for help.

I have experienced many new comers to the food pantry and all find it
humiliating. A single black mom, very well dressed, came in about two
months ago for the first time. She took her number and had a seat in
the corner were she silently cried. She had been employed in a well
paying job from the looks of her clothes, and during a conversation I
got the feeling she was obviously educated. I talked with her in
private and tried to assure her that there was no shame in asking for
help and that it would only be temporary in her case. Others also
seemed humiliated and embarrassed by the experience. And, yes, I would
be too.

4. Hello, I was responding to Beanster's characterization that libs
typically walk by a beaten man and are more concerned with criminals
than victims. Rightwingers love those kind of jokes which imply that
wingnuts are stand-up heroes, without actually helping anybody.
Bonhoeffer called stuff like this "cheap grace." I think.

Well, to begin with, to have "grace" they would need to be Christian.
I'm not arguing with Bonhoeffer, but I believe a true Christian is a
loving person, willing to give back with his/her time, treasures, and
talents. There is no "cheap grace". You can't earn grace, and
although good works are not necessary, every Christian I know does some
sort of extra work and is generous with his/her time and money. As far
as making a joke about libs walking past a beaten man...... well, that
attitude, true or false, had to start somewhere. I once heard a women
friend in the singing group I once belonged to say that she felt sorry
for this particular criminal who had killed someone. She said he was a
"product of his environment." She showed no such pity for the innocent
person killed as we talked about the crime. I have seen this same
attitude at a national level. Can't recall the name of the guilty
person in jail, but he was black, "a product of his environment", was
found guilty by overwhelming evidence, yet the liberal press and
hollywood types *demanded* he be let go. I think that there is a
history of such things happening. I grew up dirt poor. I was NOT a
product of my environment. No one is. We all have choices in life.

Side note: By the way, Working poor people are not somehow immune to
voting R or immune to conservative political belief, particularly
around issues like abortion, unionization, etc.. Karl Rove sure knew
that in the 2004 Ohio election, and wasn't there this Reagan fellow
who . . . .

No they aren't. But the poor I see on a daily basis are 100% Obamites,
and the "change" they want is more entitlements. I know, I know,
someone will brand me as a bigoted blowhard ******* for having said
that, but it is the truth. They truly need help, but many have made
bad decisions and continue to make more bad decisions, and ride the
system for all it's worth. They are happy with their lives, afaik, and
wouldn't change if it meant working for what they get.

Since to your knowledge no conservative has come into the food pantry
where you volunteer, to ask for assistance or acted emotionally, you
apparently have touched the elephant in a different place. ;+))

Well, it all depends on one's perspective, but that has been my
experience, Dave. One must also remember that being a conservative
does not automatically mean that person is a Republican. I grew very
poor and my parents were conservative Democrats. d;o) (After thought:

I doubt my parents, if alive, would today vote Democrat. Their
Democrat party has changed. It is not the party today of JFK.
Remember the first thing he did when he became prez? I will never
forget - he gave everyone a very nice tax break. More money to spend
meant more income for the government.)

Dave
By the way the most hostile and demanding laid off people in my
experience base were defense workers, engineers and middle managers.
The most appreciative, positive and eager to retrain (?) . . . people
like laid off sawmill workers in Snoqualemie and paper workers out on
the Coast. And all these groups got (get?)enhanced services, and
deeper support. You figure.

Hmmmm. Well, I know of two 6 figure friends, both engineers, who have
been unemployed for awhile (one for almost two years). They are both
in their 50s, would accept under-paid positions, and both have been
retrained, one as a truck driver. Neither has given up hope of finding
a job. One, married to a working nurse, is slowly spending his 401K
and has moved into a smaller home. They'll survive.

You and I, Dave, are very fortunate. I count my blessings daily, and
I'm sure you do too.

Dave

Good god, you are an idiot.

And a pig.

And a liar.

g.
well, yeah, not necessarily in that order.

Hey, don't forget to wash your hands in very hot water, lots of soap,
for at least ten minutes. *And use a brush for your fingernails. *
There's all sorts of germs and **** up there yaknow.

There's lots of germs and **** everywhere. Funny that they never hurt
anybody before the 40s and early 50s, though.

Davey, who has oft wondered why God blessed Wolfgang with such a
marvelous brain only to have him misuse it writing in this nuthouse....
*We've got to find something for this little boy to do.

Keep us posted.

pig.

idiot.

g.

"No surprise that life's road can feel different . . . in crappyshoes
 

On Jan 5, 5:51*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
"David LaCourse" wrote in message

news:201001041720588930-dplacourse@aolcom...
*They truly need help, but many have made

bad decisions and continue to make more bad decisions, and ride the system
for all it's worth. They are happy with their lives, afaik, and wouldn't
change if it meant working for what they get.

and, if you wonder, THIS is the absolute piece of stupidity that drew my
ire. You dare to call yourself a Christian?? Judge not, lest......etc, etc.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tom

Ire? See, that's what happens one fails to see the irony.....a nearly
complete immunity to low humor.

giles

"No surprise that life's road can feel different . . . in crappy shoes
 

On 2010-01-05 18:18:22 -0500, " said:

On Jan 5, 12:39*pm, David LaCourse wrote:

Wish I had said that! *d;o) *I agree whole heartedly, but the
health/medical thingy has changed since I was a kid. *When I grew up in
the 40s/early 50s, there was no health care. *How the hell did we
survive, I wonder. *

Must have been the leeches.

Or the mustard plasters.

"No surprise that life's road can feel different . . . in crappyshoes
 

On Jan 5, 3:51*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
SNIP

Tom, you and I and a few others see some things the same and a few
other things not at all the same. And with Dave and me maybe the
proportions are different but we do share some things in common.
Bottom line for me is whatever our individual starting places, I doubt
there is anyone here who could not do better, do more, be better men
when it comes to some of these social and family issues like we talk
about.

Then there's the question of what do group members really share. In
the wide sense, everyone associated with this group, including
Beanster, M---, bummed out formers, etc everyone shares a raft of
beliefs about the natural world, wild things, and the performance of
the fishing ritual. That's a lot, not everything but allot. Maybe
that's as good as it gets for testosterone friendly groups. But it
doesn't answer the question of why so much effort and ego goes into
the political stuff.(?)

Dave
Meaculpa

"No surprise that life's road can feel different . . . in crappyshoes
 

David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-01-05 10:01:47 -0500, jeff said:

David LaCourse wrote:

Jo and I move to Georgia on Thursday. We both plan to do the same
thing down there.


i'll be interested in your comparison of northern, taxachusetts
welfare programs and clientele with those in the north jawja
republican mountains...

jeff

Republican mountains? News to me. But, I will try and campare the
difference if/when we can find a place to volunteer. We are about 30
miles from *any place*. You, Rachel, and the pup must visit if for no
other reason that to watch the sunset.

Dave



the mountains of nc, tenn, and jawja are notoriously republican. tough
for a liberal democrat to breathe the political air up there. g

the pup is still a bit rambunctious for polite company, but i hope we
can visit with y'all at your new place one of these days. it's an easy
drive from snowbird...

jeff

"No surprise that life's road can feel different . . . in crappy shoes
 

question of what do group members really share. In
the wide sense, everyone associated with this group, including
Beanster, M---, bummed out formers, etc everyone shares a raft of
beliefs about the natural world, wild things, and the performance of
the fishing ritual. That's a lot, not everything but allot. Maybe
that's as good as it gets for testosterone friendly groups. But it
doesn't answer the question of why so much effort and ego goes into
the political stuff.(?)

Dave
Meaculpa





When youi find the answer to this please let me know
Perhaps the flame wars on ROFF answer your question re political feud and
others as a microcosm
They are definitely ego related
An isolated group w/ similar interests and there are ridiculous wars
I guess that Humans fight politically for ego & testosterone driven
ideals???
In the real world

- Sometimes they kill ea other and a whole lot of effort, lives $$$ ,ego
and testerone is devoted and spent on these real wars


It's nuts

So again if you get the answer please lemme' know

Mea culpa tambien

Soren Kierkegaard