Ken Fortenberry wrote:

Danl wrote:

snip
... These organizations offer formal classes to those that want to
learn more about beer and/or become judges of beer competitions.


What a ridiculous bunch of idiotic bull****. Most of us don't
have to take formal classes to know what kind of beer we like.


....or dislike. but that wasn't the argument, was it?

jeff (who knows his cooking probably would meet the taste expectations
of a starving soul, but would never be considered worth a farthing in
the objective opinion of any swiss cheese gourmand)

Stan Gula wrote:


Ken asserts:
===============
Budweiser is the best selling beer in America. Budweiser is
consistently ranked as the best beer *of it's style* brewed
in the world.
=============

The style they have won at the GABF is "American-Style Premium Lager"
although AB apparently enters that into 2 or 3 categories. The winners in
their category in 2004 are (clipped from the gabf web site at
http://www.beertown.org/events/gabf/04winners.htm):
Category: 22 American-Style Premium Lager-14 Entries
Gold: Coors Original, Coors Brewing Company, Golden, CO
Silver: Miller High Life, Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, WI
Bronze: Pabst Blue Ribbon, Pabst Brewing Company, San Antonio, TX

It's very interesting (for beer geeks) to look at the really old winners (go
up a level in the url) - back in 1983 when the GABF just began, Sierra
Nevada Pale Ale was king.


....thanks for that link stan... perhaps you noticed the following:

Category: 45 Scottish-Style Ale-20 Entries

Bronze: Charlie's Barley, Ham's Restaurant & Brewhouse, Greenville, NC


we've got a couple of good micros in this area of nc... an up and comer
is duck-rabbit in farmville, nc...brewing porters and stout, milk-stout.
they are just starting marketing efforts, so it will probably go to
****, but, if you find it, give it a try.

jeff (and...i'm sure you noticed this one...g
Category: 55 Belgian-Style Sour Ale- 18 Entries

Bronze: Sour Prick, Bitter End Bistro & Brewery, Austin, TX

Jeff Miller wrote:

jeff (and...i'm sure you noticed this one...g
Category: 55 Belgian-Style Sour Ale- 18 Entries

Bronze: Sour Prick, Bitter End Bistro & Brewery, Austin, TX

Ewww, not something I'm interested in trying at *all*. And I'll resist the
temptation to make a joke about any Roffians.
--
Stan Gula

Willi wrote:

I gotta agree with Ken on this one. (Although it is kind of surreal to
hear Mr. Elite to rant about other people being snobs)

And that was the main point I've been trying to make for quite a
while. He's calling people "dumbass, yuppie, beer snobs" for daring to
hold the opinion that Bud is mass-produced swill, but he has used much
the same type of language to justify his preference for dry-fly fishing
over bait-chucking.

It's about hypocrisy.

People who are very into something form "elitist" opinions as to what is
good or bad and these opinions generally differ widely from what the
average Joe thinks. This is true of lots of things - literature, movies,
music, fly rods, beer, wine, food, etc. etc. etc. There is no science
for ranking the "best" or "worst" or "good" or "bad" in any of these
things. Different tastes for different people.

Yep. And some ROFFians were yanking his chain because they (we)
know that he will immediately get defensive about his own "average Joe"
beer, while he is on record as (proudly, even defiantly) holding
"elitist" or "snob" opinions.

BTW, I just thought of one of the funnier ironies in this whole
thing. IIRC, Ken has talked about the "pedestrian" winelist at the
Fryemont Inn in NC. Does that mean he's a "yuppie wine snob"?


Chuck Vance

Conan The Librarian wrote:
snip
He's calling people "dumbass, yuppie, beer snobs" for daring to
hold the opinion that Bud is mass-produced swill, ...

There's that and the dumbass, yuppie beer snob's (henceforth
referred to as DYBS) arrogant and outrageously condescending
claim that even though millions of people choose to drink
Budweiser they do so only because they've been duped by Madison
Avenue. As if. That takes a lot of gall even for a DYBS.

but he has used much
the same type of language to justify his preference for dry-fly fishing
over bait-chucking.

It's about hypocrisy.

Piffle. I have never claimed that people fish with bait only
because they've been duped into believing that bait fishing
tastes good.

snip
Yep. And some ROFFians were yanking his chain because they (we) know
that he will immediately get defensive about his own "average Joe" beer,
while he is on record as (proudly, even defiantly) holding "elitist" or
"snob" opinions.

Sure seems like your little chain has been well and firmly
yanked there Chuck. One might even say you've got your panties
in a wad. ;-)

BTW, I just thought of one of the funnier ironies in this whole
thing. IIRC, Ken has talked about the "pedestrian" winelist at the
Fryemont Inn in NC. Does that mean he's a "yuppie wine snob"?

You're big on irony, but you might be surprised to learn
that our everyday wine here in Illini land comes in a box
and more than three out of every four bottles of wine in
our cellar cost less than $15 a bottle. We may be snobs,
but at least we're cheap snobs. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Danl" wrote in
:

The square root of -1 is an irrational number.

Well, imaginary number, but you were close.

Scott

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

Conan The Librarian wrote:

There's that and the dumbass, yuppie beer snob's (henceforth
referred to as DYBS) arrogant and outrageously condescending
claim that even though millions of people choose to drink
Budweiser they do so only because they've been duped by Madison
Avenue. As if. That takes a lot of gall even for a DYBS.

Recognize the following words?

Doesn't make a damn bit of difference what a majority of people
think. If a majority of people thought a "Dogs Playing Poker"
painting was a better painting than the Mona Lisa, the majority
of people would be wrong.

but he has used much the same type of language to justify his
preference for dry-fly fishing over bait-chucking.

It's about hypocrisy.

Piffle. I have never claimed that people fish with bait only
because they've been duped into believing that bait fishing
tastes good.

Nice try. Perhaps you recall who wrote the following:

"That one does not fish for trout with spinning lures or
live bait is taken for granted, along with toilet training."

-William Humphrey-

I drown worms myself fishing for catfish. You're right
it's a gas. Put the Cardinal game on the radio, drink
beer, kick back in the lawn chair. But if you're talking
about trout, I gotta admit to being an elitist snob that
agrees more with Mr. Humphrey.

And how about:

Since when has elitism become a pejorative ? Why does it seem that
slapping the elitist label on someone is enough to push their
arguments beyond the pale of polite discussion ?

You have to blind in one eye and unable to see out of the other
not to realize that some people and some things ARE better than
others. Some people are smarter and more honest than others and
some ideas are better than others. Egalitarianism is seductive,
but it seems perverse to deny common sense.

It is a better thing we do to fish with dry flies rather than
corn kernels, and if that makes me an elitist, I am proud to be
an elitist.

snip
Yep. And some ROFFians were yanking his chain because they (we)
know that he will immediately get defensive about his own "average
Joe" beer, while he is on record as (proudly, even defiantly) holding
"elitist" or "snob" opinions.

Sure seems like your little chain has been well and firmly
yanked there Chuck. One might even say you've got your panties
in a wad. ;-)

I'm not the one calling people names, Ken. In fact, I think that's
part of what's bugging you. You *want* people to respond in kind, and
I'm not playing that game.

BTW, I just thought of one of the funnier ironies in this whole
thing. IIRC, Ken has talked about the "pedestrian" winelist at the
Fryemont Inn in NC. Does that mean he's a "yuppie wine snob"?

You're big on irony, but you might be surprised to learn
that our everyday wine here in Illini land comes in a box
and more than three out of every four bottles of wine in
our cellar cost less than $15 a bottle. We may be snobs,
but at least we're cheap snobs. ;-)

Ah, so you were being *really* hypocritical when you called the
Fryemont Inn winelist "pedestrian".


Chuck Vance (and the wine-cellar is a nice touch as well)

Conan The Librarian wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
... That takes a lot of gall even for a DYBS.

Recognize the following words?
Ken quotes snipped
Nice try. Perhaps you recall who wrote the following:

Well that's just silly. If I wanted to argue with myself
I wouldn't be posting to roff now would I ?

Sure seems like your little chain has been well and firmly
yanked there Chuck. One might even say you've got your panties
in a wad. ;-)

I'm not the one calling people names, Ken. In fact, I think that's
part of what's bugging you.

Bugged ? Hell, I'm not bugged, I'm having the time of my life.
I *like* telling DYBS where to stick their pompous bull****.
I didn't start this particular Budweiser thread, but Budweiser
threads are always one of my favorites.

You *want* people to respond in kind, and
I'm not playing that game.

Uh, don't look now Chuck but you've been playing the game
going on two days now.

Ah, so you were being *really* hypocritical when you called the
Fryemont Inn winelist "pedestrian".

Why would you think that ? I calls 'em as I sees 'em Chuck
whether it be the wine list at a North Cackalacky restaurant
or a bunch of DYBS pontificating about their formal classes
and sneering at good beer.

Chuck Vance (and the wine-cellar is a nice touch as well)

Well, actually it's just one corner of the basement with a
Swedish shelving system bolted to the walls but I'm glad
you like it. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Jeff Miller wrote:

Bronze: Sour Prick, Bitter End Bistro & Brewery, Austin, TX


http://www.crystalglen.net/Fishing/Arrogant.htm

Willi

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

Well that's just silly. If I wanted to argue with myself
I wouldn't be posting to roff now would I ?

Actually, as evidenced in this thread, I think you *would* argue
with yourself if no one else took you up on it.

Bugged ? Hell, I'm not bugged, I'm having the time of my life.
I *like* telling DYBS where to stick their pompous bull****.
I didn't start this particular Budweiser thread, but Budweiser
threads are always one of my favorites.

Yep, you didn't start the thread. It was intended to yank your
chain all along, and it succeeded.

You *want* people to respond in kind, and I'm not playing that game.

Uh, don't look now Chuck but you've been playing the game
going on two days now.

No, my game is marveling at your defensiveness about Bud-swill,
pointing out your hypocrisy and using your own words against you. Yours
is calling people names.

Clearer now?

Ah, so you were being *really* hypocritical when you called the
Fryemont Inn winelist "pedestrian".

Why would you think that ?

Simple. You belittled their winelist even though you buy cheap wine
(and of course you drink Budmilloors).


Chuck Vance (who's yanking whose chain?)