The end of the line.
 

Tim J. wrote:

. . . except for that part about "...and The North wanted to abolish it
for moral reasons." The sides weren't *near* that clear cut except in
revisionist history writing. The South would have never seceded if they
hadn't had to pay higher interest rates to, in their minds (and could be
very well true), bail out the floundering banks in The North after the
"panic" of 1857, and ended up paying more than their fair share of
tariffs on exported raw materials. The North would have not started a
war just to end slavery because it was the right thing to do. They rode
that "moral high ground" horse mainly to, literally, rally the troops
and support. Since the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't even written
until several years after the war started, I fail to see how this
new-found morality entered into causing The Civil War.

Oh for God's sake. Slavery was THE burning moral issue dividing North
and South from the very founding of the country, and even before. It's
simultaneously a miracle and a disgrace that the Founding Fathers
managed to sidestep it when writing the Constitution.

The abolitionist Northern states had to accept three bitter compromises
to the South in the Constitution: the Enumeration Clause, which counted
a slave as 3/5 of a person for Congressional apportionment
(disgraceful); an express continuation of the slave trade until 1808
(when it was finally banned); and the Fugitive Slave Clause, which
required runaway slaves to be return from free states (disgraceful).

Have you even read any American writing from the early 19th century?
Don't you have any idea how moralistic those people were? They make us
look incredibly cynical by comparison. Not only Northerners were
tortured by the immorality of slavery, but so were many Southerners.


"There must doubtless be an unhappy influence on the manners of our
people produced by the existence of slavery among us. The whole commerce
between master and slave is a perpetual exercise of the most boisterous
passions, the most unremitting despotism on the one part, and degrading
submissions on the other. Our children see this, and learn to imitate
it; for man is an imitative animal. This quality is the germ of all
education in him."

-- Thomas Jefferson, slaveholder

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The end of the line.
 

"Daniel-San" wrote in message
...

"Wolfgang" wrote ...
|
| ...I'm sure you have your hot button issues. I do, too.
|
| You're half wrong. Kennie doesn't give a **** about this.....or
anything
| else.....except insofar as he sees it as an opportunity to make himself
look
| like a real boy.

From what I've seen around here... everyone has something that sends them
thru the roof. No comment on Ken's motives -- I'm not 'roff educated'
enough
on that subject.

|
| Mine include half- or incomplete-history. I believe that wrapping
anything
| up in pageantry is BS. Tell the whole story or don't tell any story.
|
| Sometimes the whole story isn't a good story. Where history is
concerned
| this is more often than not the case. Sometimes you want history.
| Sometimes it's nice just to hear a good story.

Agreed, but when 'a good story' about something important gets propagated,
a
world full of bull**** ensues. Probably some pageantry, too. If you're
interested in another line of BS, poke around for some stories about
Hellen
Keller. The latter part of her life was....interesting.

Charles Lindbergh, Henry L. Mencken, Mohandas Ghandi, Mother Teresa, Donald
Duck, John F. Kennedy, George Washington, Samuel Johnson, Jean D'Arc, a few
score Popes (not to mention some tens of thousands of other sanctified
clergymen), a pair of Elizabeths, blah, blah..........

So?

Any less bull**** here today as a result of your efforts? :)

|
| Maybe that makes me an asshole.
|
| Nah, that was done.....or not.....a long time ago.

Most would go with 'done'. Really makes zero difference to me anyway.
Just
don't want to ever be construed as a rascist. Almost any other label might
fit in one context or another. Rascist, however is one I'll fight.

And at the end of the fight all that's left standing is the label. Pyrrhic
victory, anyone?

| Maybe that means I have poor timing.
|
| Nah, you just monkey-piled in ROFF. It happens to everybody who sticks
| around long enough to acquire a taste for it. It ain't nuthin' to get
| worked up about.

Fair 'nuff.

|
| But I'm not apologizing for either. At least not on ROFF.
|
| Well, there's ample precedent for that. :)

Yes there is. I can't figure out if I enjoy this sewer of a NG or loathe
it.
Sort of like the cigarette habit I recently kicked. Hated every second of
it, but loved it, too.

I haven't kicked the cigarette habit. Nor the ROFF habit. And I have no
intention of doing either. Aristippus of Cyrene had the right
idea....."Habeo, non habeor."

Wolfgang

The end of the line.
 

rw wrote:
Tim J. wrote:
snip

Oh for God's sake.

You are, by far, one of the most obnoxious, condescending people I have
never met. Try having a normal discussion some day without virtually
rolling your freakin' eyes.
--
BIOYA,
Tim
---------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

The end of the line.
 

Tim J. wrote:

Agreed. It *still* didn't cause the war.

I never took you for a Marxist, Tim. Your position is pure economic
determinism.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The end of the line.
 

Tim J. wrote:

rw wrote:

Tim J. wrote:

snip

Oh for God's sake.


You are, by far, one of the most obnoxious, condescending people I have
never met. Try having a normal discussion some day without virtually
rolling your freakin' eyes.

You only think I'm condescending because I'm pointing out your ignorance
and demolishing your illogical argument. :-)

BTW, we've never met.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The end of the line.
 

rw wrote:
Tim J. wrote:

rw wrote:

Tim J. wrote:

snip

Oh for God's sake.


You are, by far, one of the most obnoxious, condescending people I
have never met. Try having a normal discussion some day without
virtually rolling your freakin' eyes.

You only think I'm condescending because I'm pointing out your
ignorance and demolishing your illogical argument. :-)

BTW, we've never met.

.. . . and you can't read. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
---------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

The end of the line.
 

"Wolfgang" wrote ...
|
| "Daniel-San"
| "Wolfgang" wrote ...
| |
| | ...I'm sure you have your hot button issues. I do, too.
| |
| | You're half wrong. Kennie doesn't give a **** about this.....or
| anything
| | else.....except insofar as he sees it as an opportunity to make
himself
| look
| | like a real boy.
|
| From what I've seen around here... everyone has something that sends
them
| thru the roof. No comment on Ken's motives -- I'm not 'roff educated'
| enough
| on that subject.
|
| |
| | Mine include half- or incomplete-history. I believe that wrapping
| anything
| | up in pageantry is BS. Tell the whole story or don't tell any story.
| |
| | Sometimes the whole story isn't a good story. Where history is
| concerned
| | this is more often than not the case. Sometimes you want history.
| | Sometimes it's nice just to hear a good story.
|
| Agreed, but when 'a good story' about something important gets
propagated,
| a
| world full of bull**** ensues. Probably some pageantry, too. If you're
| interested in another line of BS, poke around for some stories about
| Hellen
| Keller. The latter part of her life was....interesting.
|
| Charles Lindbergh, Henry L. Mencken, Mohandas Ghandi, Mother Teresa,
Donald
| Duck, John F. Kennedy, George Washington, Samuel Johnson, Jean D'Arc, a
few
| score Popes (not to mention some tens of thousands of other sanctified
| clergymen), a pair of Elizabeths, blah, blah..........
|
| So?

I think people should find the whole story before deciding on something.
Seems simple to me. Why decide an opinion based on half truths? To each his
own, I guess.

|
| Any less bull**** here today as a result of your efforts? :)

No. The supply here (and elsewhere) is entropic in its growth. Ever
expanding universe and all.

|
| |
| | Maybe that makes me an asshole.
| |
| | Nah, that was done.....or not.....a long time ago.
|
| Most would go with 'done'. Really makes zero difference to me anyway.
| Just
| don't want to ever be construed as a rascist. Almost any other label
might
| fit in one context or another. Rascist, however is one I'll fight.
|
| And at the end of the fight all that's left standing is the label.
Pyrrhic
| victory, anyone?

See below....

|
| | Maybe that means I have poor timing.
| |
| | Nah, you just monkey-piled in ROFF. It happens to everybody who
sticks
| | around long enough to acquire a taste for it. It ain't nuthin' to get
| | worked up about.
|
| Fair 'nuff.
|
| |
| | But I'm not apologizing for either. At least not on ROFF.
| |
| | Well, there's ample precedent for that. :)
|
| Yes there is. I can't figure out if I enjoy this sewer of a NG or loathe
| it.
| Sort of like the cigarette habit I recently kicked. Hated every second
of
| it, but loved it, too.
|
| I haven't kicked the cigarette habit. Nor the ROFF habit. And I have no
| intention of doing either.

I have a feeling you take advice quitting smoking in much the same way I
take advice about shutting up rather than seek a pyrrhic victory. Yeah, it
makes sense, but I ain't gonna do it.


Aristippus of Cyrene had the right
| idea....."Habeo, non habeor."
|

Me no speaky the Greek. English mostly. Spanish mostly. Greek... none. Well,
I guess Gyros, spanokopita, and Ouzo, but not much else.

((****, that's Latin, ain't it? Don't speak that one, either))

| Wolfgang
|
Dan

The end of the line.
 

Tim J. wrote:


. . . and you can't read. ;-)

Yes I can. Reading is one of my strong suits. You should try reading
primary sources sometime, instead of relying on Marxist and/or Neocon
propaganda. I suggest The Adams-Jefferson Letters to start.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The end of the line.
 

JR wrote:

Daniel-San wrote:

I can't figure out if I enjoy this sewer of a NG or loathe it.


Wiser to do both than to wallow in indecision.



oooh... i like that advice.

oblomov.

The end of the line.
 

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:41:27 -0600, rw
wrote:

Tim J. wrote:


. . . and you can't read. ;-)

Yes I can. Reading is one of my strong suits. You should try reading
primary sources sometime, instead of relying on Marxist and/or Neocon
propaganda. I suggest The Adams-Jefferson Letters to start.

You missed where he stated you have never met...