i hate baseball..
 

"slenon" wrote in message
m...
One hardly knows where to begin to speculate on what kind of warped
vision of the real world inspires the delusional notion that any view
you have expressed on this or any other matter is uncommon or unpopular

Warped vision? Why yours, of course, sir. After all, if such an august
person as your self, in consideration for arbiter, fails to agree with
something I have expressed in a free and open forum, then I must be in
error. Oh, my! I must have missed the column in today's papers
confirming
your appointment. I'll have my staff send a gift around immediately.


or how you would recognize any such distinction if it
jumped up and bit you on your smug and supremely pedestrian ass.
Wolfgang

I don't believe distinctions are venomous. But if such should occur I'll
think of you when I need someone to perform oral venom extraction.

"Smug and supremely pedestrian ass?" How kind of you to say so. But I
must
admit to use of a vehicle yesterday to travel for fishing purposes and
today
to transport groceries.

who probably shouldn't be surprised at a manifest inability to
distinguish between one's position and one's persona.

No you shouldn't be. You fit the role rather nicely, too.


----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69

See what I mean?

Wolfgang
hee, hee, hee. :)

i hate baseball..
 

slenon wrote in message ...
----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar


Curious. . . the Darkstar you refer to... is that Darkstar as in Alan Furst,
the writer?

Dave

i hate baseball..
 

"slenon" wrote in message m...

My position remains the uncommon and unpopular one I first stated.

[snip of same stuff about too much emphasis on spectator sports, etc.

Your sentence above nicely displays the holier-than-thou attitude
that first prompted me to enter this discussion. I don't know where
you got the idea that the concept that there is too much emphasis on
sports is a unique or unpopular one. I daresay that most people who
bother to think about it would come to the same conclusion.

The difference between some of us and yourself is that while we
might agree with the basic premise, we don't put ourselves in the
self-important position of presuming to know what's best for them and
feel the need to "enlighten" them.

They are free to spend their dollars and time in any way that they
see fit, as silly or distasteful as it may seem to you or me.

The practice of threatening to move the franchise in order to get cities,
counties, and even states, to affect taxation to build new venues is
despicable. Tampa is the nearest case in point to my home. The franchise
owners made the big threat and the county voted in a tax to pay for a new
stadium. Had they imposed this tax upon only the fans, those voluntarily
attending the games, that would have been a different matter. As a result,
if I purchase food or drink, lodging, or transportation, anywhere in
Hillsborough County, I am taxed to pay for a stadium I did not vote to
build.

Did the citizens who attend these games vote for this willingly? Was it
shoved down their throats in lieu of losing "their team?" If the team was
that ready to move, was it ever "theirs?" Is voting to tax yourself and
others so that millionaire franchise owners can escape the cost of doing
business and shift it to those less able to afford it the act of someone
with politically opened eyes?

And this of course is a wholly different matter than simply a case
of too much emphasis on spectator sports. This is a simple matter of
economics. Software companies, retail establishments, etc., etc.,
etc. are all the recipients of extra taxation or tax breaks. We are
all taxed for services we don't use.

But to think this would end if we could only "open the eyes" of
those poor dumb sports fans is naive and condescending.

Let's see ... a quick Google search shows that they are/were using
Dan Marino in ads to help sell their cars. Is that what you're
referring to?

No. They are currently airing some horridly obnoxious clips of local fans,
who certainly appear to be seriously impaired, dancing and shouting to the
theme from "ghostbusters." Very, very annoying and the volume is boosted
tremendously. I can usually ignore commercials or read through them. This
one sends me scrambling for the mute button.

We have quite a few annoying commercials in these parts, and
interestingly enough, they are also for auto dealers. So we can agree
then that auto dealers have obnoxious ads.

[Dead concerts = mob scene?]

My first show was in Aug, '68. I saw them at the Avalon and then shipped
overseas the next day. My last was the stadium show in Tampa, 95. ( the old
stadium, btw, now torn down to make way for the one discussed above) It
was, for the end of tour in spring of '95, surprisingly well played and
jazzy.

Was that when Branford Marsalis or Ornette Coleman joined them for
a few shows? I know I've got a tape somewhere with Ornette from
around that period, and it's pretty fun to hear them interacting.

We got good value for the admission price. But the crowd pressure
was oppressive, the feel of family you recall was not really there. There
were too many people and too many camps. The lot scene outside was sad. It
was hard to hear the tour rats spare-changing over the hiss of nitrous tanks
filling balloons.

In another lifetime I lived in a neighborhood that was divided
roughly half and half between students and working people. I got to
know some of the kids pretty well, and I remember my neighbor coming
back from his first Dead show and being ready to go on the road with
them.

His reason? The gas.

I made him a couple of compilation tapes so he could actually
listen to a bit of the music before he hit the road with the band.


Chuck Vance

i hate baseball..
 

--
Ken Fortenberry:
You are confusing a University with a trade school and incidentally
revealing a deficiency in your own education.

NO, my diploma really says "University." Though I'm sure I can guess the
answer, what deficiency would that be? I'm just dying to know what I missed
all those years ago.


Big time intercollegiate athletics has become an industry apart
from the mission of the University, the tail wagging the dog, so
to speak, but athletics, both individual and intercollegiate, is
?an important part of a well-rounded education.

Surprisingly, we partially agree here. It is an industry and should be
separated from academic programs. But your well rounded education model
stems from the British ideal student-athlete. Note that the word student
appears first. Unfortunately, in our system, that is too seldom the case.


----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

i hate baseball..
 

Curious. . . the Darkstar you refer to... is that Darkstar as in Alan
Furst, the writer?
Dave

No, Dave. Darkstar in this context refers to an improvisational musical
platform used by the Grateful Dead. Some of them were short and trash, some
long and trash. But some of them were moments to recall, performances of a
rare nature exploring time signatures, harmonics, chord structures, and in
the best of cases, when transitioned into a figure known as "Mind Left Body
Jam," explorations of music descending to chaos and back to quiet beauty.



----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

i hate baseball..
 

See what I mean?
Wolfgang

Well, I see that if you, Wolfgang, apply yourself just a bit more, you can
achieve true schmuck status.

Let me know when you're through ****ing in the sandbox.

----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

i hate baseball..
 

"slenon" wrote...
See what I mean?
Wolfgang

Well, I see that if you, Wolfgang, apply yourself just a bit more, you can
achieve true schmuck status.

Let me know when you're through ****ing in the sandbox.

Stev, you're really making this too easy for him.
--
TL,
Tim
Grandma always said, "An unchallenged Wolfgang is an unhappy Wolfgang."
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

i hate baseball..
 

"Tim J." wrote in message
...

"slenon" wrote...
See what I mean?
Wolfgang

Well, I see that if you, Wolfgang, apply yourself just a bit more,
you can
achieve true schmuck status.

Let me know when you're through ****ing in the sandbox.

Stev, you're really making this too easy for him.
--
TL,
Tim
Grandma always said, "An unchallenged Wolfgang is an unhappy
Wolfgang."

One could wait for a more resonant cranium upon which to beat a
sonorous tattoo, but then one would be left wondering what to do in
the long dreary intervals and, as we all know, idle hands are the tool
of the Devil......who knows what sort of mischief one might fall prey
to while waiting for better opportunities to do good works.

Wolfgang
who, as can be seen from the above, has already been reduced by ennui
to the rather embarrassing expedient of killing time by making a
pastiche of haphazardly tossed metaphors. :(

i hate baseball..
 

Chuck Vance:
I don't know where you got the idea that the concept that there is too much
emphasis on
sports is a unique or unpopular one.

Perhaps from the fact that every news cast and every news paper dedicates a
large proportion of its space to such events. Perhaps from the billions of
dollars spent in public schools to fund such programs when the same schools
can't provide books for all students.

The difference between some of us and yourself is that while we
might agree with the basic premise, we don't put ourselves in the
self-important position of presuming to know what's best for them and
feel the need to "enlighten" them.

Well, I've yet to take out any full page adds in local papers, stand outside
athletic events with signs, or spend any time calling into talk radio. Yes,
I'm argumentative and opinionated. So are many of the participants here. I
also feel quite strongly about social, political, and economic reforms that
are divisive matters. When one says nothing about one's beliefs lest others
be offended, how free is our society? If everyone merely accepts the status
quo, then now is any change to be affected? Enlightenment is a touchy term.
Here if Florida, I'd be happy if they just managed to teach more of the
students to read at grade level.

They are free to spend their dollars and time in any way that they see
fit, as silly or distasteful as it may seem to you or me.

And short of speaking against some of these manners, I've no intention of
trying to prevent them. Notice that I said earlier that I don't gamble, not
that gambling should be illegal or even that gambling was wrong. I've never
been able to afford to gamble and the noise in the casinos is unpleasant to
me.

This is a simple matter of economics. Software companies, retail
establishments, etc., etc.,
etc. are all the recipients of extra taxation or tax breaks. We are all
taxed for services we don't use.

Indeed we are. And when I'm afforded the opportunity to vote against such
things I do. When I'm not allowed to vote, I do write to my elected
representatives.

But to think this would end if we could only "open the eyes" of those
poor dumb sports fans is naive and condescending.

I don't expect it ever to happen. I remain amazed at the loyalty of people
to teams of players with so little reverse loyalty as to charge for
autographs.

So we can agree then that auto dealers have obnoxious ads.

No disagreement there.

Was that when Branford Marsalis or Ornette Coleman joined them for
a few shows? I know I've got a tape somewhere with Ornette from
around that period, and it's pretty fun to hear them interacting.

No guests at that show. Pity, because it would have been a good show for
either of them to sit in. I've got some shows with both of them playing.
They are delightful.

His reason? The gas.

Damn! Sorry to hear that. But you gave him some other things to think
about with the tapes. My list has some decent material if you're
interested.









--

----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

i hate baseball..
 

Wolfgang:
by making a pastiche of haphazardly tossed metaphors. :(

if he's reduced to making a pastiche, perhaps he should look for a recipe
for a rat..ta..tat..ta. toulie.




--

----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm