Newbie Question: How many fly sizes & colors to tie for next season?
 

p.s. I'll remember that fly size is #1, then pattern, and then
color :-)

Thats right. A few weeks ago, I was on a river with a hex hatch going
on. I was throwing a small crawfish pattern that the fish were
hitting on the surface before it had a chance to sink. Crawdads don't
look a whole hell of alot like hex's, but the fish didn't care.
Frank Reid

Newbie Question: How many fly sizes & colors to tie for next season?
 

"mdk77" wrote in message
oups.com...
snip
Gold Ribbed Hare's Ear Nymph (Searching Nymph) 14, 16
Whitlock Fox Squirrel Nymph (Searching Nymph) 14, 16
Herl Nymph (Searching Nymph) 14, 16
Muskrat Nymph (Searching Nymph) 14, 16
Scud Nymph (Regular & Beadhead) 16, 18 & 20
San Juan Worm Searching Nymph) 8 & 10
Elk Hair Caddis Dry Fly (Adult Caddis) 12, 16, 18
Adams Dry Fly (Searching Fly) 20 & smaller
Beetle Bug Searching Dry Fly 16
Serendipity Midge Pupa (Regular & Beadhead) 16-20
Griffith's Gnat Adult Midge 20, 22, 24
Sangre De Cristo Adult Midge 20, 22, 24
Woolly Bugger Streamer 6, 8, 10, 12
Lead-eyed Woolly Bugger Streamer 6, 8, 10, 12
Muddler Sculpin Minnow Streamer 2, 6, 10
Jim's Maribou Streamer Minnow 12, 14
Soft Hackle Wet 14, 16, 18
Jim's Gurgler (floating fun foam fly) 8, 12
Jim's Foam Spider 10
Foam Beetle Terrestrial 12, 16
Dave's Hopper 6,10

I can't wait to start tying :-)
Thanks again for all of the ROFF help!
p.s. I'll remember that fly size is #1, then pattern, and then
color :-)

- Dave K.

I notice that the only Mayfly imitation on the list is the Adams. If that is
the only Mayfly pattern you intend to cary I recommend that you carry them
in size 20 and larger. The Adams, though a great pattern, is a bitch to tie
in sizes smaller than 20 and has no advatange over much simpler patterns in
the smaller sizes. For that matter the Adams is most effective in size
18-14, depending on hatches.

Bob Weinberger

Newbie Question: How many fly sizes & colors to tie for next season?
 

On Oct 19, 4:01 pm, "Bob Weinberger"
wrote:
"mdk77" wrote in message

oups.com...
snip



Gold Ribbed Hare's Ear Nymph (Searching Nymph) 14, 16
Whitlock Fox Squirrel Nymph (Searching Nymph) 14, 16
Herl Nymph (Searching Nymph) 14, 16
Muskrat Nymph (Searching Nymph) 14, 16
Scud Nymph (Regular & Beadhead) 16, 18 & 20
San Juan Worm Searching Nymph) 8 & 10
Elk Hair Caddis Dry Fly (Adult Caddis) 12, 16, 18
Adams Dry Fly (Searching Fly) 20 & smaller
Beetle Bug Searching Dry Fly 16
Serendipity Midge Pupa (Regular & Beadhead) 16-20
Griffith's Gnat Adult Midge 20, 22, 24
Sangre De Cristo Adult Midge 20, 22, 24
Woolly Bugger Streamer 6, 8, 10, 12
Lead-eyed Woolly Bugger Streamer 6, 8, 10, 12
Muddler Sculpin Minnow Streamer 2, 6, 10
Jim's Maribou Streamer Minnow 12, 14
Soft Hackle Wet 14, 16, 18
Jim's Gurgler (floating fun foam fly) 8, 12
Jim's Foam Spider 10
Foam Beetle Terrestrial 12, 16
Dave's Hopper 6,10

I can't wait to start tying :-)
Thanks again for all of the ROFF help!
p.s. I'll remember that fly size is #1, then pattern, and then
color :-)

- Dave K.

I notice that the only Mayfly imitation on the list is the Adams. If that is
the only Mayfly pattern you intend to cary I recommend that you carry them
in size 20 and larger. The Adams, though a great pattern, is a bitch to tie
in sizes smaller than 20 and has no advatange over much simpler patterns in
the smaller sizes. For that matter the Adams is most effective in size
18-14, depending on hatches.

Bob Weinberger

You're right. That was a typo. I'm going with sizes 14, 16 and 18.

Good catch.

Newbie Question: How many fly sizes & colors to tie for next season?
 

"Frank Reid" wrote in message
Thats right. A few weeks ago, I was on a river with a hex hatch going
on. I was throwing a small crawfish pattern that the fish were
hitting on the surface before it had a chance to sink. Crawdads don't
look a whole hell of alot like hex's, but the fish didn't care.

I've seen your crawfish patterns. The fish are probably pleading
self-defense.

Joe F.

Newbie Question: How many fly sizes & colors to tie for next season?
 

Thats right. A few weeks ago, I was on a river with a hex hatch going
on. I was throwing a small crawfish pattern that the fish were
hitting on the surface before it had a chance to sink. Crawdads don't
look a whole hell of alot like hex's, but the fish didn't care.

I've seen your crawfish patterns. The fish are probably pleading
self-defense.

Some just had heart attacks and went belly up.
Frank Reid

Newbie Question: How many fly sizes & colors to tie for next season?
 

On Oct 19, 1:52 pm, Frank Reid wrote:
p.s. I'll remember that fly size is #1, then pattern, and then
color :-)

Thats right. A few weeks ago, I was on a river with a hex hatch going
on. I was throwing a small crawfish pattern that the fish were
hitting on the surface before it had a chance to sink. Crawdads don't
look a whole hell of alot like hex's, but the fish didn't care.
Frank Reid

A week ago I took my young daughter fishing (warm water fishing with a
kids spinning rod). She was fishing live bait with a teeny tiny
yellow bobber. I noticed fish were hitting the bobber on the surface,
but not touching her bait. I asked her if she would like to fly fish,
and I let her use my fly rod. I tied a yellow terrestrial spider on
for her and she tore the bass and bluegill up. We could have caught a
100 of them, but I finally convinced her we had to get home or mom
would report us a missing-in-action.

The spider was the size and color of that teeny-tiny yellow bobber. I
think they would have gone after anything that size and color - with a
passion that day.

- Dave K.

Newbie Question: How many fly sizes & colors to tie for nextseason?
 

Larry L wrote:
"Russell D." wrote
Hey, you've been spying on me. ;-)

Russell


Thinking about you too, Russell .... this year I made a special point one
day of fishing a Renegade ( fly you often pitch in threads similar to this
one ) to Firehole trout .... yep they ate it .... but don't tell Willi I
admitted it G



Nothing wrong with fishing a Renegade. It's an oldie but a goody. About
the only time I use it now is if I make out during January through
March. It works well when about all that is happening is emerging midges.

Russell

Fly Choice was Newbie Question: How many fly sizes & colorsto tie for next season?
 

Willi wrote:
Larry L wrote:

Now for a more all inclusive discussion than "newbie advice." As I
say
trout eat all sorts of stuff, I'm sure you have watched them sample twigs
and such from the drift. Trout likely "eat" for several reasons,
hunger,
'anger,' 'territory defense,' and yes I'd guess 'curiosity' ... i.e. his
mouth is his major tool to experiment with new things in the drift.

To ME, it makes more sense to concentrate efforts on trying to induce a
'feeding' response than the others .. most of the time, the exceptions
clearly exist ... and, to ME, that implies an effort to suggest food
forms
the fish has seen and eaten recently.

Sure, various Disaster Area Ant patterns will catch 'some' fish,
'sometimes'
lots of them. But, I ask you, Willi, this. Given a hypothetical
situation where you are climbing into a drift boat for a full day during
Salmon Fly time ( a classic big, garish time) and are given a choice ...
take a box of wildly colored foam Disaster Area Ants ... or take a box of
attractors that more closely resemble Salmon Flies ( Stimulators and
such )
.... are YOU really going to take the DAAs ? Or, even if the choice is
between very garish, wildly colored ( no orange :-) DAAs and a box that
holds only #18 Royal Ws, #18 PTs and #18 Brassies ... would YOU choose
the
DAAs over the smaller, more "common food like" ties? Remember your
whole,
long, day of drifting you are stuck with the decision G




I hate fishing from a driftboat and would try and avoid it but if I HAD
to, I'd probably choose some of each. (Unless we were floating Cutthroat
water. Then I'd be sure and stock up on foam flies. I think that Cutts
must like how foam tastes!!) The majority of the flies I tie and fish
are ties I consider "buggy". (I liked your "Disaster Area" Ant pattern
label)

Where I'm coming from in this discussion is that I think that
most beginners should pay more attention to and work harder at better
presentation rather than worrying about having the "right" fly. In
stream and river trout fishing it is VERY unusual when the fish are more
selective than having a fly that is close to the "right" size. Having a
generic Mayfly and Caddis dry and a soft hackle and a nymph in a range
of sizes, IMO is close enough for 99% of the situations you'll
get into IF the fly is presented correctly. What I think a beginner
would be better off doing rather than frequently changing flies is to
concentrate on different ways and better ways of presenting the flies
he's using. (IMO, traditional dead drift tactics are over emphasized and
boring)

Willi, I'd be really interested in what some of these "different ways
and better ways" that you are referring to are. I've always thought that
a drag free dead drift was the key to catching trout.


There's a young man I've been fishing with quite a bit this year. He's a
pretty accomplished angler and is analytic in his approach like you are.
He studies the air and bushes for insects, nets the surface and deeper
currents, takes stream temps etc. Then he uses this info to chose what
fly he is going to use. If he's not successful, he first choice is to
change flies and try and find that "right" one. I generally will use
whatever, is left on my setup from the last time I was fishing. This
year it would most likely be a caddis dry and a soft hackle dropper -
what I've used this year for 90% of my stream and river fishing.

So, just curious, do you catch more fish with the dry or the dropper?
(Betting the answer is probably, "Yes.")

I generally out fish this young man, not because I have the "right"
fly but because if I am not catching fish, I change how and where I am
presenting the flies instead of changing them.


Fascinating. This is a concept that has never occurred to me.

Russell

Learning all the time.

Newbie Question: How many fly sizes & colors to tie for nextseason?
 

Willi wrote:
Larry L wrote:

I believe that sizes, shapes and, lastly, colors are going to work
best when
they suggest something the fish sees and eats regularly, even if that
fish
has never had a selective second in his life.


Where do the big, garish, cartoony, improbable and successful foam flies
fit in with the above?

Willi

I acquired a number of these flies a few years ago because someone told
me I would catch a lot of fish with them. When I put them in my fly box
they just looked wrong and I developed a kind of aversion to them and I
didn't use them. Until . . .

I don't you believe you and Larry were around when I posted my last TR
with and link to a some pictures of a day when if broke and used one of
those ugly bugs. (I've added most of the text of the TR to the web page
for my records.)

http://www.sfcn.org/rmd/LaborDay2007/LaborDay2007.html


I'd be curious about your's and Larry's thoughts on fish's reactions to
the fly I used described at the bottom of the page. It seemed odd
behavior to me.


Russell

Newbie Question: How many fly sizes & colors to tie for next season?
 

"Russell D." wrote

I'd be curious about your's and Larry's thoughts on fish's reactions to
the fly I used described at the bottom of the page. It seemed odd
behavior to me.


Russell


FWIW, a foam beetle is one of my favorite flies for fish eating what I call
"left overs" ... i.e. non-selective but rising to tidbits floating by

I like a body of peacock, with black foam pulled over it and rubber legs on
each side

I do NOT use a big garish visiblity gizzmo such as many I see in shops seem
to have ... at most I use a tiny piece of yellow foam ( bright yellow seems
to grab my attention better than other colors ) so small I hope no fish can
see it from below

I use #16s almost exclusively, I don't even remember why I've settled on
that size but I do remember trying larger versions, some huge ... I still
carry one or two "huge" and use them as strike indicators on rare occasions
.... when the one or two I have are gone to the trees, I won't replace them.

I DO use a smaller, non foam, version for situations where "splash down"
seems it would scare fish rather than provoke an attack ... peacock body
with palmered sparse black hackle, trimmed on bottom and top, for legs ,
and a flat "wing" of that small green/purple feather from a pheasant neck
coated before tying with D's Carcinogenic Cement. And be aware of
Lady Bugs, when they swarm on bushes over water it can produce some
wonderful fishing and very selective fish, I always have a small orange
beetle tucked away someplace in the box.

As for the little fish/big fish scaring/appeal ... no real clue, but I might
guess that big fish are more likely to eat for non-nutritional reasons than
the small fry ..i.e. "attack"