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On Apr 19, 6:41*pm, Giles wrote:
(Snipped)

Interesting numbers. But $500 per acre for grazing land in any
reasonable quantities is a better reference point. "Couple of hundred"
K per? Hummmm? Well maybe for fully serviced residential lot down the
street if your licence plate says California. You think that
population growth, immigration and low food prices might have
something to do with the conversion of farm to residential land?

Where was that Wisconsin topsoil going in such a hurry? Maybe these
fellas need to invest in "no-till" or reject the idea that corn/corn/
corn is a 3 year rotation?

Life is the drama. IMHO TV style courage wrapped in violence and sport
tends to jade the senses to the realities of the physical and mortal
world. For reasons I do not fully understand, I am drawn to seeing
the expressions of nobility in the everyday choices and actions of
many of the people I encounter, as well as the crimes of ignorance,
selfishness, and intent of others I encounter. Like everybody I mostly
only "know" what I can see, but within that frame I do prefer people
whose daily lives are infused by those noble purposes which I value;
love and respect of the land, a combo of hard physical and
intellectual work, and a love for the USA, family and the American
people. In my realities (and probably fantasies) I have found these
purposes more in evidence in ag country.

As to family and that word "preternaturally;" I don't ascribe the
courage of dead Snedekers and others to myself. But I do use their
choices as a standard to fight my own weaknesses.

There is a video of two of my heroes on YouTube called "Shepherd's
Grain Field Tour - July 2009"
They have been recognized by the NDRC for their work on the. They are
wheat farmers on the Palouse.

Dave

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These are the Wheat farmers of the Shepard's grain co-op. IMHO they
and some others are the future.
http://www.shepherdsgrain.com/growers/growers.php

And this kind of farming is also the future. Back to the future? These
guys are a few farms up river from me.

Vhttp://www.monteilletcheese.com/index.htm

Ive met lots of people in ag country who care inordinately and
passionately about doing the right stuff and making wholesome food.

Dave

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"DaveS" wrote in message
...
Which part of that land loving- understanding- work stuff, that I
stated is in YHO most over dramatized? What's your opinion on the same
subject?


where I felt you over-dramatized was all these lofty virtues which you state
are necessary to keep a large amount of agricultural land from generation to
generation.
I think Wolfie sort of stated it well, it's just plain old work,
hardly requiring some sort of special values. I know folks who have had
agricultural land in their families that dates back to the 1600's. To keep
it, they just are not spendthrift, able to find decent folks to work the
land(the owner need not work the land himself, you know), and maintain a
rudimentary knowledge of the land, the crops, the basic economics involved.
No heroics, just conservative maintenence of an investment. Happens all the
time.


This is NOT a test.
This is NOT a test
This is NOT a test

Whew, I was SO concerned it might be........

Tom

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Tom Littleton wrote:
"DaveS" wrote:
Which part of that land loving- understanding- work stuff, that I
stated is in YHO most over dramatized? What's your opinion on the same
subject?

where I felt you over-dramatized was all these lofty virtues which you state
are necessary to keep a large amount of agricultural land from generation to
generation.

Much of the *very fertile* ag land here in corn country is leased
out to big agribusiness, Frito-Lay, Archer Daniels Midland etc.
The "owners" don't necessarily know **** from shinola about farming,
the environment, conservation or a damn thing other than Daddy left
them sitting on a gold mine. And that's all their kids will know too.

I think Dave has got a "gentleman farmer the renaissance man" fantasy
going on. It must be pretty to think so.

--
Ken Fortenberry

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On Apr 20, 4:33*pm, DaveS wrote:
On Apr 19, 6:41*pm, Giles wrote:
(Snipped)

Interesting numbers.

Aren't they though?

But $500 per acre for grazing land in any
reasonable quantities is a better reference point.

Well, a better reference point for western grazing land in any
reasonable quantities, I suppose. We ain't got much of that around
here.

"Couple of hundred"
K per? Hummmm? Well maybe for fully serviced residential lot down the
street if your licence plate says California.

Actually, it says "Illinois." You've heard of it, maybe. "Chicago"
ring any bells? They've been filtering up over the border for decades
into places like Pleasant Prairie.....Hummers and obscene credit
ratings.

You think that
population growth, immigration and low food prices might have
something to do with the conversion of farm to residential land?

You think that discerning the topic under discussion and addressing it
migh have something to do with a fair and useful exchange of ideas?

Where was that Wisconsin topsoil going in such a hurry?

To the north and east. Around here, that means mostly into Lake
Michigan, and points beyond.

Maybe these
fellas need to invest in "no-till" or reject the idea that corn/corn/
corn is a 3 year rotation?

So, maybe they're not so brilliant and noble after all?

Life is the drama.

The ancient Greeks saw a funny side to it as well. They weren't half
dumb.

IMHO TV style courage wrapped in violence and sport
tends to jade the senses to the realities of the physical and mortal
world.

Hm.....

I double dog dare anybody to parse that mess.....with a context of one
sort or another in mind. Personally, I ain't gonna touch it.

For reasons I do not fully understand, I am drawn to seeing
the expressions of nobility in the everyday choices and actions of
many of the people I encounter,

It's easy enough to understand. If you rub up against stuff, it rubs
off on you.

as well as the crimes of ignorance,
selfishness, and intent of others I encounter.

Oddly, there don't seem to be many (well, ANY, actually) of those
among those with whom you share a vocation, an avocation, and/or
genes.

Like everybody I mostly
only "know" what I can see,

The Earth is flat (been there, seen it), UFOs, and quarters hide in
children's ears.....used to be silver dollars, and then half
dollars.....children's ears are obviously shrinking in these effete
latter days.

but within that frame I do prefer people
whose daily lives are infused by those noble purposes which I value;
love and respect of the land,

Then you should declare war on farmers, pastoralists, loggers, miners,
"developers", capitalists, industrialists, manufacturers,
distributors, and consumers (in descending order) and their
spawn.....hey, nits breed lice, ainna?

a combo of hard physical [work]

Been there. Beautiful if you love it.....wretched otherwise.

and intellectual work,

Well, there goes the farmers, pastoralists, loggers, miners,
"developers", capitalists, industrialists, manufacturers,
distributors, and consumers.

and a love for the USA,

yawn.

family

Some of those are good enough. I've seen 'em.

and the American people.

You mean the winos, pimps, whores, thieves, liars, murderers,
philanderers, thugs, muggers, child molesters, crackheads, meth
freaks, cheaters, liars, fornicators.....those American people?.....or
did you have some others in mind?

In my realities (and probably fantasies) I have found these
purposes more in evidence in ag country.

So have I.....when in ag country. On the other hand, when in other
climes I have found them more in evidence there. Thus lending
credence to the theory that you don't find what you are looking for in
places where you aren't looking. Weird, huh?

As to family and that word "preternaturally;" I don't ascribe the
courage of dead Snedekers and others to myself. But I do use their
choices as a standard to fight my own weaknesses.

Wouldn't it be easier to just give up on weaknesses altogether?

There is a video of two of my heroes on YouTube called "Shepherd's
Grain Field Tour - July 2009"
They have been recognized by the NDRC for their work on the. They are
wheat farmers on the Palouse.

Dave

Their work on the.....the.....the.....?

Good god, man!

giles.

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On Apr 20, 5:35*pm, DaveS wrote:
These are the Wheat farmers of the Shepard's grain co-op. IMHO they
and some others are the future.http://www.shepherdsgrain.com/growers/growers.php

And this kind of farming is also the future. Back to the future? These
guys are a few farms up river from me.

Vhttp://www.monteilletcheese.com/index.htm

Ive met lots of people in ag country who care inordinately and
passionately about doing the right stuff and making wholesome food.

Dave

And I've met lots of people in non-ag country who ditto. And lots of
people in ag country who don't. And lots of people in in ag country
who ditto. And lots of people in non-ag country who don't.

So?

giles

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On Apr 20, 7:25*pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
Tom Littleton wrote:
"DaveS" wrote:
Which part of that land loving- understanding- work stuff, that I
stated is in YHO most over dramatized? What's your opinion on the same
subject?

where I felt you over-dramatized was all these lofty virtues which you state
are necessary to keep a large amount of agricultural land from generation to
generation.

Much of the *very fertile* ag land here in corn country is leased
out to big agribusiness, Frito-Lay, Archer Daniels Midland etc.
The "owners" don't necessarily know **** from shinola about farming,
the environment, conservation or a damn thing other than Daddy left
them sitting on a gold mine. And that's all their kids will know too.

I think Dave has got a "gentleman farmer the renaissance man" fantasy
going on. It must be pretty to think so.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Yeah, and a lot of the land is still in the hands of the local farmer
(around me at least, though it may be different in the cosmopolitan
areas Urbana). They ain't gentlemen farmers either. Fighting
everything from purple loostrife to the county ag board. Just plane
good workin' folks.
Frank Reid

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Jebus man, if its half as bad back there as you say it is, there is
still that thing that Horace Greeley said.

Did you get my snailmail address per the seeds via Email?

Dave

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On Apr 20, 5:25*pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
Tom Littleton wrote:
"DaveS" wrote:
Which part of that land loving- understanding- work stuff, that I
stated is in YHO most over dramatized? What's your opinion on the same
subject?

where I felt you over-dramatized was all these lofty virtues which you state
are necessary to keep a large amount of agricultural land from generation to
generation.

Much of the *very fertile* ag land here in corn country is leased
out to big agribusiness, Frito-Lay, Archer Daniels Midland etc.
The "owners" don't necessarily know **** from shinola about farming,
the environment, conservation or a damn thing other than Daddy left
them sitting on a gold mine. And that's all their kids will know too.

I think Dave has got a "gentleman farmer the renaissance man" fantasy
going on. It must be pretty to think so.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Well, (to borrow the dear and departed Chris Farley line,) if
"gentleman farmer the renaissance man" includes staying . . . "in a
van down by the river," then I am guilty as charged. I prefer the
title "farm groupie, absentee owner" but you can call me Colonel.

Colonel Dave of the Jungle

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On 2010-04-21 04:53:17 -0400, DaveS said:

Colonel Dave of the Jungle

That's the spirit!

Dave, the Pirate