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Terrorists on ROFF?
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:06:57 +0100, "riverman"
wrote: http://tinyurl.com/4xmnh What do you guys think: would it be possible for an AlQueda type to pass info on ROFF without being noticed? It seems to me that just about every Usenet site that I know of has its 'residents' who would notice newbies having conversations on the side. Its only anonymous to those who aren't there. --riverman Trolls. SPAMmers. Both drop in on newsgroups everywhere and are seldom paid much attention unless they hang around and self justify. However, chat rooms are more reasonable for instant communication and Web pages and binaries much more reasonable for passing on longer term stuff. I've only ever examined any chat rooms briefly and at loooong intervals (every few years is more than enough for me), but they allow reasonable privacy. I don't know if the persons running the channel can see when new users drop in, but they could go right into more of the "Hey, any gurlz on here 2nite?" crap and all that and drive almost any drop in visitor away. I play one game on Yahoo that has an attached chat part. I turn it off as soon as the game's entirely loaded, but catch some of it. Gag. It wouldn't take much in way of disguise for a few people to be on there and act as if they're talking up a favorite band, perhaps named "Fear and Death", and asking what its tour stops will be. One could pop in cities, dates, times, and even locations. "Yeah, they'll be in Boston on the 28th. That club down on the corner of 1st street and 15th avenue. Afternoon for the kiddie concert. 3pm for the warm up band, "Destruction Zone" and then the main act at 4pm." Of course they'd have to get up on chat room English variants, which I'm not, in spite of the small example above, but that shouldn't be too hard. Luckily, the terrorists seem to be short on imagination. There are so many awful things they could do so easily that they've not yet done. Or else I have a very vivid imagination and more paranoia than a group with Rumsfeld and Ashcroft and 40 neocons and Vince Foster's killer combined. PS: the part about Foster's killer is fiction. I, in the small amount of time I considered it, do believe he offed himself. Maybe not where he was found, though... Cyli r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels. Often taunted by trout. http://www.visi.com/~cyli |
Terrorists on ROFF?
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:06:57 +0100, "riverman"
wrote: http://tinyurl.com/4xmnh What do you guys think: would it be possible for an AlQueda type to pass info on ROFF without being noticed? It seems to me that just about every Usenet site that I know of has its 'residents' who would notice newbies having conversations on the side. Its only anonymous to those who aren't there. --riverman Trolls. SPAMmers. Both drop in on newsgroups everywhere and are seldom paid much attention unless they hang around and self justify. However, chat rooms are more reasonable for instant communication and Web pages and binaries much more reasonable for passing on longer term stuff. I've only ever examined any chat rooms briefly and at loooong intervals (every few years is more than enough for me), but they allow reasonable privacy. I don't know if the persons running the channel can see when new users drop in, but they could go right into more of the "Hey, any gurlz on here 2nite?" crap and all that and drive almost any drop in visitor away. I play one game on Yahoo that has an attached chat part. I turn it off as soon as the game's entirely loaded, but catch some of it. Gag. It wouldn't take much in way of disguise for a few people to be on there and act as if they're talking up a favorite band, perhaps named "Fear and Death", and asking what its tour stops will be. One could pop in cities, dates, times, and even locations. "Yeah, they'll be in Boston on the 28th. That club down on the corner of 1st street and 15th avenue. Afternoon for the kiddie concert. 3pm for the warm up band, "Destruction Zone" and then the main act at 4pm." Of course they'd have to get up on chat room English variants, which I'm not, in spite of the small example above, but that shouldn't be too hard. Luckily, the terrorists seem to be short on imagination. There are so many awful things they could do so easily that they've not yet done. Or else I have a very vivid imagination and more paranoia than a group with Rumsfeld and Ashcroft and 40 neocons and Vince Foster's killer combined. PS: the part about Foster's killer is fiction. I, in the small amount of time I considered it, do believe he offed himself. Maybe not where he was found, though... Cyli r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels. Often taunted by trout. http://www.visi.com/~cyli |
Terrorists on ROFF?
From: Cyli
Luckily, the terrorists seem to be short on imagination. There are so many awful things they could do so easily that they've not yet done. Or else I have a very vivid imagination and more paranoia than a group with Rumsfeld and Ashcroft and 40 neocons and Vince Foster's killer combined. We must be on the same wavelength. I have thought of a number of relatively low cost/low tech activities that would strike fear into the heart of most Americans, but thankfully the terrorists have not. I thought we had one going a while back, buy it turned out to be home grown whackos. George Adams "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age." ---- J.W Muller |
Terrorists on ROFF?
In article , George Adams
wrote: From: Cyli Luckily, the terrorists seem to be short on imagination. There are so many awful things they could do so easily that they've not yet done. Or else I have a very vivid imagination and more paranoia than a group with Rumsfeld and Ashcroft and 40 neocons and Vince Foster's killer combined. We must be on the same wavelength. I have thought of a number of relatively low cost/low tech activities that would strike fear into the heart of most Americans, but thankfully the terrorists have not. I thought we had one going a while back, buy it turned out to be home grown whackos. George Adams "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age." ---- J.W Muller I must say that, as someone who grew up, and then brought up two children, in a city where I'd hear machine-gun fire each evening , and that was constantly being bombed by terrorists (many funded from New York and Boston) I am utterly terrified by the current obsession with terrorists in the US. How many of you have ever seen a terrorist bomb go off? Or seen anyone shot or killed in a terrorist incident? (I've seen lots and lots and lots). How many of you have known someone who was killed in a road accident? Get a life guys, stop being paranoid, and killing innocent people with your paranoia. Go fishing. Lazarus -- Remover the rock from the email address |
Terrorists on ROFF?
"Lazarus Cooke" wrote Get a life guys, stop being paranoid, and killing innocent people with your paranoia. Go fishing. Lazarus Thank you and I mean that sincerely .... this country is so paranoid it is it's own worst enemy |
Terrorists on ROFF?
"Lazarus Cooke" wrote Get a life guys, stop being paranoid, and killing innocent people with your paranoia. Go fishing. Lazarus Thank you and I mean that sincerely .... this country is so paranoid it is it's own worst enemy |
Terrorists on ROFF?
Lazarus writes:
I am utterly terrified by the current obsession with terrorists in the US. I agree. In our worst year, most Americans were more likely to be struck by lightning. What you may or may not see is that here in the US, a combination of the mass media and our own elected officials have fanned the paranoia to this level for their own selfish purposes(ie: monetary gain, and staying in office). Although fortunate not to have encountered such surroundings, I have spoken, fished and spent time with quite a few who grew up in the Middle East and Northern Ireland. I look at my own nation and realize we are weak, soft people at times. Tom |
Terrorists on ROFF?
Lazarus writes:
I am utterly terrified by the current obsession with terrorists in the US. I agree. In our worst year, most Americans were more likely to be struck by lightning. What you may or may not see is that here in the US, a combination of the mass media and our own elected officials have fanned the paranoia to this level for their own selfish purposes(ie: monetary gain, and staying in office). Although fortunate not to have encountered such surroundings, I have spoken, fished and spent time with quite a few who grew up in the Middle East and Northern Ireland. I look at my own nation and realize we are weak, soft people at times. Tom |
Terrorists on ROFF?
Tom Littleton wrote:
Lazarus writes: I am utterly terrified by the current obsession with terrorists in the US. I agree. In our worst year, most Americans were more likely to be struck by lightning. What you may or may not see is that here in the US, a combination of the mass media and our own elected officials have fanned the paranoia to this level for their own selfish purposes(ie: monetary gain, and staying in office). Although fortunate not to have encountered such surroundings, I have spoken, fished and spent time with quite a few who grew up in the Middle East and Northern Ireland. I look at my own nation and realize we are weak, soft people at times. Tom I have trouble with you labeling people as soft and weak because they live with peace. If that's true, I think I'll take soft and weak. Willi |
Terrorists on ROFF?
Tom Littleton wrote:
Lazarus writes: I am utterly terrified by the current obsession with terrorists in the US. I agree. In our worst year, most Americans were more likely to be struck by lightning. What you may or may not see is that here in the US, a combination of the mass media and our own elected officials have fanned the paranoia to this level for their own selfish purposes(ie: monetary gain, and staying in office). Although fortunate not to have encountered such surroundings, I have spoken, fished and spent time with quite a few who grew up in the Middle East and Northern Ireland. I look at my own nation and realize we are weak, soft people at times. Tom I have trouble with you labeling people as soft and weak because they live with peace. If that's true, I think I'll take soft and weak. Willi |
Terrorists on ROFF?
On 13 Oct 2004 23:56:00 GMT, (Tom Littleton) wrote:
Lazarus writes: I am utterly terrified by the current obsession with terrorists in the US. I agree. In our worst year, most Americans were more likely to be struck by lightning. What you may or may not see is that here in the US, a combination of the mass media and our own elected officials have fanned the paranoia to this level (snipped) The paranoia was already there. My mother used to become almost hysterical about the idea that someone would break into their house or grab her purse when she shopped at the local (then extremely safe) mall. Because she saw so much about those kinds of incidents on TV. You can recite stats on criminal violence per 100,000, per neighborhood, per each mile on a highway no end and they'll still get in their cars and drive for miles to get something a few cents cheaper somewhere, but they'll panic if they see two black youths innocently walking down the street. Most parents worry a lot about the possibility that their child / children will be kidnapped and murdered, "...because there's so much of that going on these days." Cite history and population increases and density and the speed of dramatic news spreading and they _still_ think that their kids are in several tens or hundreds of multiples more danger than they were when they were kids. 40 to 50 years ago we'd never have heard about the recent few child kidnappings in CA out here in the Midwest. If they were mentioned in any newspapers, they'd have been small inside items. TV, in its search for ratings and drama, has overly sensitized the part (majority) of the public that watches TV to dramatic dangers. For an example, watch the weather news. Watch how they make dramas out of weather that you'd have just whined about as too much rain to go out and play in when you were a kid. Now the recent hurricanes were newsworthy, indeed. But a couple of hours worth per evening? To persons not in their path? Cyli r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels. Often taunted by trout. http://www.visi.com/~cyli |
Terrorists on ROFF?
On 13 Oct 2004 23:56:00 GMT, (Tom Littleton) wrote:
Lazarus writes: I am utterly terrified by the current obsession with terrorists in the US. I agree. In our worst year, most Americans were more likely to be struck by lightning. What you may or may not see is that here in the US, a combination of the mass media and our own elected officials have fanned the paranoia to this level (snipped) The paranoia was already there. My mother used to become almost hysterical about the idea that someone would break into their house or grab her purse when she shopped at the local (then extremely safe) mall. Because she saw so much about those kinds of incidents on TV. You can recite stats on criminal violence per 100,000, per neighborhood, per each mile on a highway no end and they'll still get in their cars and drive for miles to get something a few cents cheaper somewhere, but they'll panic if they see two black youths innocently walking down the street. Most parents worry a lot about the possibility that their child / children will be kidnapped and murdered, "...because there's so much of that going on these days." Cite history and population increases and density and the speed of dramatic news spreading and they _still_ think that their kids are in several tens or hundreds of multiples more danger than they were when they were kids. 40 to 50 years ago we'd never have heard about the recent few child kidnappings in CA out here in the Midwest. If they were mentioned in any newspapers, they'd have been small inside items. TV, in its search for ratings and drama, has overly sensitized the part (majority) of the public that watches TV to dramatic dangers. For an example, watch the weather news. Watch how they make dramas out of weather that you'd have just whined about as too much rain to go out and play in when you were a kid. Now the recent hurricanes were newsworthy, indeed. But a couple of hours worth per evening? To persons not in their path? Cyli r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels. Often taunted by trout. http://www.visi.com/~cyli |
Terrorists on ROFF?
"Larry L" wrote in message ... "Lazarus Cooke" wrote Get a life guys, stop being paranoid, and killing innocent people with your paranoia. Go fishing. Lazarus Thank you and I mean that sincerely .... this country is so paranoid it is it's own worst enemy And I agree and concur wholeheartedly. Hearing Joe American from OshKosh being paranoid about Al Queda kidnapping the local gas jockey, or meekly submitting to having his body and luggage searched when he takes his yearly flight to Sheboygan to visit the in-laws is just ridiculous. When I consider Joe American's lifestyle to what I experience here and experienced in Israel: open gunfights in the street, tank battles in front of the complex, incoming mortar fire....And the next day, no one is terrorized. Its back to life as usual. Were it that Americans had such resiliance and thick skin inside their own country. Instead of 'getting over it', which is the ultimate power against fear, we get milked and milked by our leaders, led by the nose all over helenback, and are an embarassment in front of the world. Ever noticed how little 'sympathy' for 9/11 we are getting from countries who deal with terrorism on a regular basis? We're embarassing ourselves. --riverman |
Terrorists on ROFF?
"Larry L" wrote in message ... "Lazarus Cooke" wrote Get a life guys, stop being paranoid, and killing innocent people with your paranoia. Go fishing. Lazarus Thank you and I mean that sincerely .... this country is so paranoid it is it's own worst enemy And I agree and concur wholeheartedly. Hearing Joe American from OshKosh being paranoid about Al Queda kidnapping the local gas jockey, or meekly submitting to having his body and luggage searched when he takes his yearly flight to Sheboygan to visit the in-laws is just ridiculous. When I consider Joe American's lifestyle to what I experience here and experienced in Israel: open gunfights in the street, tank battles in front of the complex, incoming mortar fire....And the next day, no one is terrorized. Its back to life as usual. Were it that Americans had such resiliance and thick skin inside their own country. Instead of 'getting over it', which is the ultimate power against fear, we get milked and milked by our leaders, led by the nose all over helenback, and are an embarassment in front of the world. Ever noticed how little 'sympathy' for 9/11 we are getting from countries who deal with terrorism on a regular basis? We're embarassing ourselves. --riverman |
Terrorists on ROFF?
riverman wrote:
"Larry L" wrote in message ... "Lazarus Cooke" wrote Get a life guys, stop being paranoid, and killing innocent people with your paranoia. Go fishing. Thank you and I mean that sincerely .... this country is so paranoid it is it's own worst enemy And I agree and concur wholeheartedly. Hearing Joe American from OshKosh being paranoid about Al Queda kidnapping the local gas jockey, or meekly submitting to having his body and luggage searched when he takes his yearly flight to Sheboygan to visit the in-laws is just ridiculous. When I consider Joe American's lifestyle to what I experience here and experienced in Israel: open gunfights in the street, tank battles in front of the complex, incoming mortar fire....And the next day, no one is terrorized. Its back to life as usual. Were it that Americans had such resiliance and thick skin inside their own country. Instead of 'getting over it', which is the ultimate power against fear, we get milked and milked by our leaders, led by the nose all over helenback, and are an embarassment in front of the world. Ever noticed how little 'sympathy' for 9/11 we are getting from countries who deal with terrorism on a regular basis? We're embarassing ourselves. I'm not sure who this "we" is. Everyone I know has gone about their daily lives without having to pay for a shrink. Personally, I'm not the least bit embarrased. Ever notice what little sympathy we in America get for *anything*? Probably because we don't need it and can take care of ourselves. -- TL, Tim http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Terrorists on ROFF?
Thank you and I mean that sincerely .... this country is so paranoid it is it's own worst enemy snipped --riverman Hmmmm, you sure know a lot about our country for a Congolesian. Been scopin' us out like ol' Bubba spottin' white tail preseason. Hm, Hm, Hm... Got you figured out ri'chere. -- Frank Reid Reverse email to reply |
Terrorists on ROFF?
"Tim J." wrote in message news:lHsbd.360471$mD.266581@attbi_s02... riverman wrote: "Larry L" wrote in message ... "Lazarus Cooke" wrote Get a life guys, stop being paranoid, and killing innocent people with your paranoia. Go fishing. Thank you and I mean that sincerely .... this country is so paranoid it is it's own worst enemy And I agree and concur wholeheartedly. Hearing Joe American from OshKosh being paranoid about Al Queda kidnapping the local gas jockey, or meekly submitting to having his body and luggage searched when he takes his yearly flight to Sheboygan to visit the in-laws is just ridiculous. When I consider Joe American's lifestyle to what I experience here and experienced in Israel: open gunfights in the street, tank battles in front of the complex, incoming mortar fire....And the next day, no one is terrorized. Its back to life as usual. Were it that Americans had such resiliance and thick skin inside their own country. Instead of 'getting over it', which is the ultimate power against fear, we get milked and milked by our leaders, led by the nose all over helenback, and are an embarassment in front of the world. Ever noticed how little 'sympathy' for 9/11 we are getting from countries who deal with terrorism on a regular basis? We're embarassing ourselves. I'm not sure who this "we" is. Everyone I know has gone about their daily lives without having to pay for a shrink. Personally, I'm not the least bit embarrased. Ever notice what little sympathy we in America get for *anything*? Probably because we don't need it and can take care of ourselves. -- TL, Tim I'm not so sure we can 'take care of ourselves', Tim, especially when we import so much stuff, and consume so much more than we generate. As long as we need furrin friends, furrin oil, furrin trade, furrin investment and rely on friendly furrin markets for our goods we can't really 'take care of ourselves'. We need international goodwill and cooperation in many arenas, which depends a lot on being percieved as a goodwilled and cooperative nation outselves. And I'm even less sure that Americans are 'going about their daily lives'. We just allowed a ton of personal freedoms to get compromised, we are standing in lines for airplanes for 3-4 hours, we justify having a president who is alienating our country to many other parts of the world because he 'makes us feel safer at home' (and a lot of evidence shows that he is, in acuality doing the opposite), we are rushing out to buy duct tape and window plastic, we are casting suspicious glances at any Arabs in our midst, we no longer travel around the world as freely as we used to, our economy is being dragged down by the largest military budget and the largest federal deficit in history, our country is being polarized worse than it ever has in our countries history....exactly what about your 'daily life' is the same now as it was 5 years ago?? Maybe our country does need a collective shrink! --riverman |
Terrorists on ROFF?
riverman wrote:
"Tim J." wrote in message news:lHsbd.360471$mD.266581@attbi_s02... riverman wrote: "Larry L" wrote in message ... "Lazarus Cooke" wrote Get a life guys, stop being paranoid, and killing innocent people with your paranoia. Go fishing. Thank you and I mean that sincerely .... this country is so paranoid it is it's own worst enemy And I agree and concur wholeheartedly. Hearing Joe American from OshKosh being paranoid about Al Queda kidnapping the local gas jockey, or meekly submitting to having his body and luggage searched when he takes his yearly flight to Sheboygan to visit the in-laws is just ridiculous. When I consider Joe American's lifestyle to what I experience here and experienced in Israel: open gunfights in the street, tank battles in front of the complex, incoming mortar fire....And the next day, no one is terrorized. Its back to life as usual. Were it that Americans had such resiliance and thick skin inside their own country. Instead of 'getting over it', which is the ultimate power against fear, we get milked and milked by our leaders, led by the nose all over helenback, and are an embarassment in front of the world. Ever noticed how little 'sympathy' for 9/11 we are getting from countries who deal with terrorism on a regular basis? We're embarassing ourselves. I'm not sure who this "we" is. Everyone I know has gone about their daily lives without having to pay for a shrink. Personally, I'm not the least bit embarrased. Ever notice what little sympathy we in America get for *anything*? Probably because we don't need it and can take care of ourselves. -- TL, Tim I'm not so sure we can 'take care of ourselves', Tim, especially when we import so much stuff, and consume so much more than we generate. As long as we need furrin friends, furrin oil, furrin trade, furrin investment and rely on friendly furrin markets for our goods we can't really 'take care of ourselves'. We need international goodwill and cooperation in many arenas, which depends a lot on being percieved as a goodwilled and cooperative nation outselves. And I'm even less sure that Americans are 'going about their daily lives'. We just allowed a ton of personal freedoms to get compromised, we are standing in lines for airplanes for 3-4 hours, we justify having a president who is alienating our country to many other parts of the world because he 'makes us feel safer at home' (and a lot of evidence shows that he is, in acuality doing the opposite), we are rushing out to buy duct tape and window plastic, we are casting suspicious glances at any Arabs in our midst, we no longer travel around the world as freely as we used to, our economy is being dragged down by the largest military budget and the largest federal deficit in history, our country is being polarized worse than it ever has in our countries history....exactly what about your 'daily life' is the same now as it was 5 years ago?? Just about everything. I'm not sure what folks you hang around with that are dis'ing Arabs and rushing out to buy saran wrap and duct tape, but advise them to invest in tin foil hats instead. ;-) I should have known this would turn into a political rant. My bad. I'll bail out of this end of the thread and leave the empty soapbox for you. -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Terrorists on ROFF?
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:34:03 +0100, "riverman" wrote:
I'm not so sure we can 'take care of ourselves', Tim, especially when we import so much stuff, and consume so much more than we generate. As long as we need furrin friends, furrin oil, furrin trade, furrin investment and rely on friendly furrin markets for our goods we can't really 'take care of ourselves'. We need international goodwill and cooperation in many arenas, which depends a lot on being percieved as a goodwilled and cooperative nation outselves. And I'm even less sure that Americans are 'going about their daily lives'. We just allowed a ton of personal freedoms to get compromised, we are standing in lines for airplanes for 3-4 hours, we justify having a president who is alienating our country to many other parts of the world because he 'makes us feel safer at home' (and a lot of evidence shows that he is, in acuality doing the opposite), we are rushing out to buy duct tape and window plastic, we are casting suspicious glances at any Arabs in our midst, we no longer travel around the world as freely as we used to, our economy is being dragged down by the largest military budget and the largest federal deficit in history, our country is being polarized worse than it ever has in our countries history....exactly what about your 'daily life' is the same now as it was 5 years ago?? Just about everything...and I thought you now spent all (or most) of your life in the Congo, England, wherever - not that there's anything WRONG with that...seriously, though, being essentially an expat, all the "we" and "our" stuff is perhaps not as meaningful as from someone in the US on a day-to-day basis. For example, friends from Switzerland (with relatives in the US who keep them "in the loop," as it were) recently here for a month or so, and for the first time since 9/11, were truly surprised at what they found. They said they had half-expected a police state under siege from within, based on what they had heard in the Euro press. And even though they are worldly, sophisticated people, they said they now look with some suspicion at (unknown-to-them) Arabs, paraphrasing Abd al-Rahman al-Rashid, because not all Muslims are terrorists, but it seems that most terrorists are Muslim. And as to the polarization, IMO, you can put the majority of responsibility for that solidly at the feet of the Clintons and company, including esp. Terry McAuliffe. TC, R Maybe our country does need a collective shrink! --riverman |
Terrorists on ROFF?
"Frank Reid" moc.deepselbac@diersicnarf wrote in message ... Thank you and I mean that sincerely .... this country is so paranoid it is it's own worst enemy snipped --riverman Hmmmm, you sure know a lot about our country for a Congolesian. Been scopin' us out like ol' Bubba spottin' white tail preseason. Hm, Hm, Hm... Got you figured out ri'chere. -- Frank Reid Reverse email to reply My deepest appreciation goes out to Tim J., Richard and Frank for doing something that really needed to be done by those with gravitas. My bleats as a many-moons lurker would have been without impact. So, I, and probably many others, do thank you. Jack Barnett |
Terrorists on ROFF?
"Frank Reid" moc.deepselbac@diersicnarf wrote in message ... Thank you and I mean that sincerely .... this country is so paranoid it is it's own worst enemy snipped --riverman Hmmmm, you sure know a lot about our country for a Congolesian. Been scopin' us out like ol' Bubba spottin' white tail preseason. Hm, Hm, Hm... Got you figured out ri'chere. -- Frank Reid Reverse email to reply My deepest appreciation goes out to Tim J., Richard and Frank for doing something that really needed to be done by those with gravitas. My bleats as a many-moons lurker would have been without impact. So, I, and probably many others, do thank you. Jack Barnett |
Terrorists on ROFF?
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Terrorists on ROFF?
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Terrorists on ROFF?
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:09:43 -0500, Kevin Vang wrote:
In article , says... And as to the polarization, IMO, you can put the majority of responsibility for that solidly at the feet of the Clintons and company, including esp. Terry McAuliffe. Yeah, they had a lot of gall, going and getting elected and everything. Didn't they though? They were really mean to the right-wingers, especially when they got re-elected. Well, EXACTLY! That was just plain mean. RIGHT! Of course, you could have just asked what exactly I meant, but I suppose doing something crazy like that would be, well, crazy... HTH, R |
Terrorists on ROFF?
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:09:43 -0500, Kevin Vang wrote:
In article , says... And as to the polarization, IMO, you can put the majority of responsibility for that solidly at the feet of the Clintons and company, including esp. Terry McAuliffe. Yeah, they had a lot of gall, going and getting elected and everything. Didn't they though? They were really mean to the right-wingers, especially when they got re-elected. Well, EXACTLY! That was just plain mean. RIGHT! Of course, you could have just asked what exactly I meant, but I suppose doing something crazy like that would be, well, crazy... HTH, R |
Terrorists on ROFF?
wrote in message ... On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:34:03 +0100, "riverman" wrote: And I'm even less sure that Americans are 'going about their daily lives'. We just allowed a ton of personal freedoms to get compromised, we are standing in lines for airplanes for 3-4 hours, we justify having a president who is alienating our country to many other parts of the world because he 'makes us feel safer at home' (and a lot of evidence shows that he is, in acuality doing the opposite), we are rushing out to buy duct tape and window plastic, we are casting suspicious glances at any Arabs in our midst, we no longer travel around the world as freely as we used to, our economy is being dragged down by the largest military budget and the largest federal deficit in history, our country is being polarized worse than it ever has in our countries history....exactly what about your 'daily life' is the same now as it was 5 years ago?? Just about everything...and I thought you now spent all (or most) of your life in the Congo, England, wherever - not that there's anything WRONG with that...seriously, though, being essentially an expat, all the "we" and "our" stuff is perhaps not as meaningful as from someone in the US on a day-to-day basis. (Warning; this took on a definate soapbox tone.) You have a point: I realize that my life as an expat is very different than that of my countrymen, but I still visit there, and I hear from my friends in the states; some speak of feeling the differences, many don't; but they all say its a matter of looking for it and noticing it, or choosing not to. For example, the US is now pretty deeply entangled in a few wars which are not going particularly well according to some reports. The reality of those wars is hard to deny and the effects touch every Americans life, but how limited must someone choose to keep their vision to not feel any effect from it? Bought gas lately? Watched the news? Had a conversation with someone with kids under 16 who is wondering about all this chatter about a Draft? Does anyone still feel the invasiveness of having their pockets and shoes searched at airports? Have you got any optimism about having any room to complain about that? Do you have a penknife keychain that you carry everywhere, and felt that panic when you realized you forgot to leave it at home? Have you tried flying with your flyrod lately? Or chosen an international vacation destination? Have any non-expats (or whatever the opposite of 'expat' is....pats?) ever had fleeting second thoughts about what they might put in an email or say on the phone, since the PatAct was passed? Is anyone worried about the spiraling federal deficit, enhanced by the largest military budget in history? It didn't have to be that way. Are there any favorite fishing spots that you no longer go to with the same ease you used to? Do you worry, ever, about 'looking suspicious' jumping a fence or parking in the woods near some facility? Then there are the more subtle things, the things that work on you beneath the surface. Like: how have your own opinions of Arabs changed since the war? I learned when I was a kid that prejudices rot you from inside and to guard against it, and I suspect that many of my countrymen have let their guard down about being influenced by prejudices. When I was in school and my unworldy friends used to make slurs about "Aye-Rabs", I was comforted knowing that their ignorance was in the minority, the effects of it limited to just those guys in the boonies of Maine. Now, it haunts me to think that mainstream society around me has moved in that direction, even an inch. You don't think it affects you: remember when mentioning the Tigris and Euphrates valley brought up images of the birthplace of Civilization? It still is. Do you still feel the same way about Islam that you used to? When you first heard that Cat Stevens was a Muslim, did you imagine that he was, with his typical 'cool', exploring other religions. Do you still feel that altruistic about him? Remember 'Give me Liberty or Give Me Death', The Boston Tea Party, America--Land of Freedom, the Pilgrim's pursuit of religous tolerance, and the host of other cultural icons that defined our country to ourselves? Regardless of the actuality of those events, we prided ourselves in our vigor in guarding our personal freedoms vehemently, even *to the death*. By accepting the Patriot Act and turning a blind eye to its effects on personal liberties, even those of society as a whole or nameless others, we have chosen to change our perceptions of our own ideals. That is definately an effect on our daily lives. Remember when we admired people who Took A Stand for what they believed in? Remember "I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it"? Eaten any 'Freedom Fries' lately? Suddenly, France is the butt of jokes and disdain because they had the audacity to voice a contrary opinion, and many Americans don't even feel ashamed about that. When you first read '1984', remember your reaction to the signs "Big Brother is Watching?" The world could never get that bad, right? Now how do you feel about those damned road signs on the beltway: "Heightened Homeland Security Alert: Report Suspicious Activities". And what about that Patriot Act? Remember when we used to pride ourselves on being a Great Nation, a role model citizen of the world, and example of solid universal morals and values? Now, we pride ourselves in being able to 'go it alone' and 'we don't need the UN', and we will take what we want. What is the cultural value that the children of America are growing up with? How do they view the future role of America in the world? The anti-Bush sentiment has grown into anti-American sentiment; it will definately affect the economics and security of the US in the future. Ignoring it won't make it go away. All of these are effects in our daily lives of our reaction to the 9/11 attacks. We could have chosen to react differently, and the effects would be different. Choosing to ignore them, to feel like you are 'going about your daily life' as usual may make it feel like nothing has changed in your life, but it most definately has. --riverman (Soapbox mode off) |
Terrorists on ROFF?
wrote in message ... On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:34:03 +0100, "riverman" wrote: And I'm even less sure that Americans are 'going about their daily lives'. We just allowed a ton of personal freedoms to get compromised, we are standing in lines for airplanes for 3-4 hours, we justify having a president who is alienating our country to many other parts of the world because he 'makes us feel safer at home' (and a lot of evidence shows that he is, in acuality doing the opposite), we are rushing out to buy duct tape and window plastic, we are casting suspicious glances at any Arabs in our midst, we no longer travel around the world as freely as we used to, our economy is being dragged down by the largest military budget and the largest federal deficit in history, our country is being polarized worse than it ever has in our countries history....exactly what about your 'daily life' is the same now as it was 5 years ago?? Just about everything...and I thought you now spent all (or most) of your life in the Congo, England, wherever - not that there's anything WRONG with that...seriously, though, being essentially an expat, all the "we" and "our" stuff is perhaps not as meaningful as from someone in the US on a day-to-day basis. (Warning; this took on a definate soapbox tone.) You have a point: I realize that my life as an expat is very different than that of my countrymen, but I still visit there, and I hear from my friends in the states; some speak of feeling the differences, many don't; but they all say its a matter of looking for it and noticing it, or choosing not to. For example, the US is now pretty deeply entangled in a few wars which are not going particularly well according to some reports. The reality of those wars is hard to deny and the effects touch every Americans life, but how limited must someone choose to keep their vision to not feel any effect from it? Bought gas lately? Watched the news? Had a conversation with someone with kids under 16 who is wondering about all this chatter about a Draft? Does anyone still feel the invasiveness of having their pockets and shoes searched at airports? Have you got any optimism about having any room to complain about that? Do you have a penknife keychain that you carry everywhere, and felt that panic when you realized you forgot to leave it at home? Have you tried flying with your flyrod lately? Or chosen an international vacation destination? Have any non-expats (or whatever the opposite of 'expat' is....pats?) ever had fleeting second thoughts about what they might put in an email or say on the phone, since the PatAct was passed? Is anyone worried about the spiraling federal deficit, enhanced by the largest military budget in history? It didn't have to be that way. Are there any favorite fishing spots that you no longer go to with the same ease you used to? Do you worry, ever, about 'looking suspicious' jumping a fence or parking in the woods near some facility? Then there are the more subtle things, the things that work on you beneath the surface. Like: how have your own opinions of Arabs changed since the war? I learned when I was a kid that prejudices rot you from inside and to guard against it, and I suspect that many of my countrymen have let their guard down about being influenced by prejudices. When I was in school and my unworldy friends used to make slurs about "Aye-Rabs", I was comforted knowing that their ignorance was in the minority, the effects of it limited to just those guys in the boonies of Maine. Now, it haunts me to think that mainstream society around me has moved in that direction, even an inch. You don't think it affects you: remember when mentioning the Tigris and Euphrates valley brought up images of the birthplace of Civilization? It still is. Do you still feel the same way about Islam that you used to? When you first heard that Cat Stevens was a Muslim, did you imagine that he was, with his typical 'cool', exploring other religions. Do you still feel that altruistic about him? Remember 'Give me Liberty or Give Me Death', The Boston Tea Party, America--Land of Freedom, the Pilgrim's pursuit of religous tolerance, and the host of other cultural icons that defined our country to ourselves? Regardless of the actuality of those events, we prided ourselves in our vigor in guarding our personal freedoms vehemently, even *to the death*. By accepting the Patriot Act and turning a blind eye to its effects on personal liberties, even those of society as a whole or nameless others, we have chosen to change our perceptions of our own ideals. That is definately an effect on our daily lives. Remember when we admired people who Took A Stand for what they believed in? Remember "I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it"? Eaten any 'Freedom Fries' lately? Suddenly, France is the butt of jokes and disdain because they had the audacity to voice a contrary opinion, and many Americans don't even feel ashamed about that. When you first read '1984', remember your reaction to the signs "Big Brother is Watching?" The world could never get that bad, right? Now how do you feel about those damned road signs on the beltway: "Heightened Homeland Security Alert: Report Suspicious Activities". And what about that Patriot Act? Remember when we used to pride ourselves on being a Great Nation, a role model citizen of the world, and example of solid universal morals and values? Now, we pride ourselves in being able to 'go it alone' and 'we don't need the UN', and we will take what we want. What is the cultural value that the children of America are growing up with? How do they view the future role of America in the world? The anti-Bush sentiment has grown into anti-American sentiment; it will definately affect the economics and security of the US in the future. Ignoring it won't make it go away. All of these are effects in our daily lives of our reaction to the 9/11 attacks. We could have chosen to react differently, and the effects would be different. Choosing to ignore them, to feel like you are 'going about your daily life' as usual may make it feel like nothing has changed in your life, but it most definately has. --riverman (Soapbox mode off) |
Terrorists on ROFF?
"Tim J." wrote in message
... Just about everything. I'm not sure what folks you hang around with that are dis'ing Arabs and rushing out to buy saran wrap and duct tape, but advise them to invest in tin foil hats instead. ;-) I should have known this would turn into a political rant. My bad. I'll bail out of this end of the thread and leave the empty soapbox for you. -- TL, Tim Lucky for you that you don't live in the heart of the southern bible-belt. I work with folks who state that we ought to just nuke all them towelheads and let god sort it out, and they are serious a heart-attacks! They say things like: "if I found out that any of my kids was a queer, I'd kill them myself." Just the other day a guy came into our shop from the shop next to us with a list of Senators and Representatives who oppose a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriages. He claimed that all on the list supported queers getting MARRIED. When I pointed out that to him that not all necessarily supported gay marriage, but opposed a constitutional amendment to ban such unions, he was adamant that the list's heading said they supported queers gettin' married. To him, it didn't matter. If they didn't support the amendment, they supported gay marriage. Strangely enough, the guy says, unfortunately, most the people on the list are Democrats? I have had folks tell me that the blade on my lawnmower hit a rock and was bent because I was mowing on Sunday. Of course, it's no problem mowing on the Jewish Sabbath. Mark |
Terrorists on ROFF?
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:09:39 +0100, "riverman" wrote:
(Warning; this took on a definate soapbox tone.) No problem, at least for me...I don't have the time today to respond to what you obviously took the time to think about and write, so I'll just acknowledge it and hope to have the time to respond sometime over the weekend. Snipped everything, but only to save space TC, R |
Terrorists on ROFF?
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:09:39 +0100, "riverman" wrote:
(Warning; this took on a definate soapbox tone.) No problem, at least for me...I don't have the time today to respond to what you obviously took the time to think about and write, so I'll just acknowledge it and hope to have the time to respond sometime over the weekend. Snipped everything, but only to save space TC, R |
Terrorists on ROFF?
I have had folks tell me that the blade on my lawnmower hit a rock and was
bent because I was mowing on Sunday. Of course, it's no problem mowing on the Jewish Sabbath. Mark Right strange, my lawn mower wouldn't start on Shabbat but it worked fine on Sunday. -- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 When the dawn came up like thunder http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
Terrorists on ROFF?
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:43:47 -0400, "Tim J."
wrote: it ever has in our countries history....exactly what about your 'daily life' is the same now as it was 5 years ago?? Just about everything. I'm not sure what folks you hang around with that are dis'ing Arabs and rushing out to buy saran wrap and duct tape, but advise them to invest in tin foil hats instead. ;-) That's `cause you live in a state full of Democrats :-) |
Terrorists on ROFF?
Hmmmm, you sure know a lot about our country for a Congolesian. Been
scopin' us out like ol' Bubba spottin' white tail preseason. Hm, Hm, Hm... Got you figured out ri'chere. -- Frank Reid Reverse email to reply My deepest appreciation goes out to Tim J., Richard and Frank for doing something that really needed to be done by those with gravitas. My bleats as a many-moons lurker would have been without impact. So, I, and probably many others, do thank you. Jack Barnett Hold it right there, Sirrah!!! Hey, guys!!! Is a compliment on par with an apology on ROFF or can it stand on its own? Board of Arbiters, please decide this issue. -- Frank Reid Reverse email to reply |
Terrorists on ROFF?
|
Terrorists on ROFF?
Frank Reid wrote:
Hmmmm, you sure know a lot about our country for a Congolesian. Been scopin' us out like ol' Bubba spottin' white tail preseason. Hm, Hm, Hm... Got you figured out ri'chere. My deepest appreciation goes out to Tim J., Richard and Frank for doing something that really needed to be done by those with gravitas. My bleats as a many-moons lurker would have been without impact. So, I, and probably many others, do thank you. Jack Barnett Hold it right there, Sirrah!!! Hey, guys!!! Is a compliment on par with an apology on ROFF or can it stand on its own? Board of Arbiters, please decide this issue. Compliment? I thought "gravitas" meant a big gut and bad back. -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Terrorists on ROFF?
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:58:54 -0400, GregP wrote:
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:49:51 GMT, wrote: And as to the polarization, IMO, you can put the majority of responsibility for that solidly at the feet of the Clintons and company, including esp. Terry McAuliffe. Bull****. *hilarious* bull****! /daytripper (and that's even considering the source ;-) |
Terrorists on ROFF?
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:58:54 -0400, GregP
wrote: On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:49:51 GMT, wrote: And as to the polarization, IMO, you can put the majority of responsibility for that solidly at the feet of the Clintons and company, including esp. Terry McAuliffe. Bull****. Really? What makes you think so? I can explain and defend my position - can you? TC, R |
Terrorists on ROFF?
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:58:54 -0400, GregP
wrote: On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:49:51 GMT, wrote: And as to the polarization, IMO, you can put the majority of responsibility for that solidly at the feet of the Clintons and company, including esp. Terry McAuliffe. Bull****. Really? What makes you think so? I can explain and defend my position - can you? TC, R |
Terrorists on ROFF?
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:00:36 GMT, "slenon"
wrote: I have had folks tell me that the blade on my lawnmower hit a rock and was bent because I was mowing on Sunday. Of course, it's no problem mowing on the Jewish Sabbath. Mark Right strange, my lawn mower wouldn't start on Shabbat but it worked fine on Sunday. That's what you get for buying a mower with a Briggstein and Strattonberg engine...next time, get a Toroah, perhaps? TC, R |
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