Tied up in knots....
 

I know this is a stupid newbie question, but I'm a stupid newbie.

I've been using Orvis knotless leaders and (here it comes) just
clipping off the loop and tying them to line with the nail knot we've
been discussing in other threads.

Why? Because I have no clue how to join the loop to line without
tying some god-awful conglomeration of knot. There's nothing on the
Orvis website to help out either - at least not that I can see.

Question: is it best just to go ahead and use the nail knot (which is
working fine) or is there some reason to learn to tie this loop to
line? If so, can someone point me to an online resource for the
knot? (I also intend to inquire at my local shop, but thought I'd ask
here first.)

Thanks in advance, and please be gentle.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"When you play with the Cubs, it's like playing with heavy shoes on."
-- Pete LaCock, Cub-free since 1976

Tied up in knots....
 

Intellect Enabled wrote:
snip
Question: is it best just to go ahead and use the nail knot (which is
working fine) or is there some reason to learn to tie this loop to
line? ...

Some folks nail knot a piece of mono the same size as the butt end
of the tippet to the fly line and then tie a small perfection loop
in it. (Google "perfection loop" for instructions.)

I used to use this loop-to-loop method for attaching leader to fly
line mainly because it's easier to change a loop-to-loop than tie
a new nail knot.

I don't bother with it anymore. I almost always get a full season
out of a leader nail knotted directly to the fly line so the
convenience of the loops is negligible and the nail knot passes
through the guides better than the loops.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Tied up in knots....
 

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:12:43 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:


I don't bother with it anymore. I almost always get a full season
out of a leader nail knotted directly to the fly line so the
convenience of the loops is negligible and the nail knot passes
through the guides better than the loops.

Thanks for the response, Ken.

That's kind of what I thought, but I wondered if there was some other
advantage I may be missing by not using the loops (For instance, I
don't use a strike indicator, but I've seen some that only work on
these types of leaders.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"When you play with the Cubs, it's like playing with heavy shoes on."
-- Pete LaCock, Cub-free since 1976

Tied up in knots....
 

"Intellect Enabled" wrote in message
...
SNIP
Question: is it best just to go ahead and use the nail knot (which is
working fine) or is there some reason to learn to tie this loop to
line? If so, can someone point me to an online resource for the
knot? (I also intend to inquire at my local shop, but thought I'd ask
here first.)

Thanks in advance, and please be gentle.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"When you play with the Cubs, it's like playing with heavy shoes on."
-- Pete LaCock, Cub-free since 1976

Put a permanent loop of monofilament on the end of your line, and loop the
leader to this.

http://www.killroys.com/knots/looploop.htm

For the monofil loop on the end of your line, you can use a nail knot or
similar.

Here is more info; http://www.killroys.com/knots/knots.htm#notice

You can also use "line connectors" or "cast connectors" ;
http://www.wiser-net.co.uk/hosted/ww...f82a8abf1b4011

A search on google should turn up an American source for you.

TL
MC

TL
MC

Tied up in knots....
 

"Intellect Enabled" wrote in message
...
SNIP
Question: is it best just to go ahead and use the nail knot (which is
working fine) or is there some reason to learn to tie this loop to
line? If so, can someone point me to an online resource for the
knot? (I also intend to inquire at my local shop, but thought I'd ask
here first.)

Thanks in advance, and please be gentle.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"When you play with the Cubs, it's like playing with heavy shoes on."
-- Pete LaCock, Cub-free since 1976

Put a permanent loop of monofilament on the end of your line, and loop the
leader to this.

http://www.killroys.com/knots/looploop.htm

For the monofil loop on the end of your line, you can use a nail knot or
similar.

Here is more info; http://www.killroys.com/knots/knots.htm#notice

You can also use "line connectors" or "cast connectors" ;
http://www.wiser-net.co.uk/hosted/ww...f82a8abf1b4011

A search on google should turn up an American source for you.

TL
MC

TL
MC

Tied up in knots....
 

Intellect Enabled wrote:
I know this is a stupid newbie question, but I'm a stupid newbie.

I've been using Orvis knotless leaders and (here it comes) just
clipping off the loop and tying them to line with the nail knot we've
been discussing in other threads.

Why? Because I have no clue how to join the loop to line without
tying some god-awful conglomeration of knot. There's nothing on the
Orvis website to help out either - at least not that I can see.

Question: is it best just to go ahead and use the nail knot (which is
working fine) or is there some reason to learn to tie this loop to
line? If so, can someone point me to an online resource for the
knot? (I also intend to inquire at my local shop, but thought I'd ask
here first.)

Forget about the loops. They suck. Leave a mono butt section on your
line and tie a new leader onto it with a blood knot. Three turns on each
side will do fine. You should only have to tie one nail knot per line
per year, unless you fish an awful lot more than I do, which I doubt.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Tied up in knots....
 

Intellect Enabled wrote:
I know this is a stupid newbie question, but I'm a stupid newbie.

I've been using Orvis knotless leaders and (here it comes) just
clipping off the loop and tying them to line with the nail knot we've
been discussing in other threads.

Why? Because I have no clue how to join the loop to line without
tying some god-awful conglomeration of knot. There's nothing on the
Orvis website to help out either - at least not that I can see.

Question: is it best just to go ahead and use the nail knot (which is
working fine) or is there some reason to learn to tie this loop to
line? If so, can someone point me to an online resource for the
knot? (I also intend to inquire at my local shop, but thought I'd ask
here first.)

Forget about the loops. They suck. Leave a mono butt section on your
line and tie a new leader onto it with a blood knot. Three turns on each
side will do fine. You should only have to tie one nail knot per line
per year, unless you fish an awful lot more than I do, which I doubt.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Tied up in knots....
 

"Intellect Enabled" wrote


Question: is it best just to go ahead and use the nail knot (which is
working fine) or is there some reason to learn to tie this loop to
line?

I use the loops, a short section of Maxima needle nail knotted into the line
and a Perfection loop on the other end.

The loops does NOT go though the guides as well as a single knot, but I've
never had it cost me a fish.

I do change leaders fairly often, and sometimes on stream. The leader
construction I'd use on a windy day to cast a #18 PMD dry is very different
than what I'd use on a calm one, same river, same fly. I could "rebuild"
the leader butt to fit the situation but I prefer to just slip one off and
another one on ... laziness, for sure, but it works better for me ( I fished
several years using " a single leader per year' and didn't like it ). I
don't indicator nymph much, but when I do I use a very short stiff butt,
short transition and long tippet, I've tried casting dries with the same
leader and it is terrible, but very works well with weight and a bobber.

Another example? I recently fished Silver Creek and most days I would fish
downstream using a wimpy limpy LONG tippet, about 12 or 14 ft leader and a
Fall River twitch, to the fish sitting where they were available to that
presentation. When I reached the end of the area I intended to fish (
often defined by reaching another angler ) I would take a minute while
resting myself and the area to change to a much shorter, mostly butt, short
tippet ( 6 inches to a foot ) leader and work back upstream, casting across
stream to fish in tough lies, right on the bank or inches below exposed
weeds, fish that are nearly impossible to accurately cast to with either a
Fall River Twitch or a long wimpy leader. The short leader wouldn't give
more than a few inches of good drift, but greatly increased MY accuracy and
added fish to the "bag" that otherwise I wouldn't have gotten.

I have no doubt that those with greater skills than myself can "do it all"
with exactly the same leader ... I can't. And like the search for the
perfect "one rod for all fishing" I've given up on "one leader for all
fishing" and find loop to loop to be the best way to change to meet changing
conditions, mainly because I can spent the knot tying time indoors with no
wind, and good light instead of rebuilding on stream, with cold hands and
that rushed feeling feeding trout always instill in me.

YMMV

Tied up in knots....
 

"Intellect Enabled" wrote


Question: is it best just to go ahead and use the nail knot (which is
working fine) or is there some reason to learn to tie this loop to
line?

I use the loops, a short section of Maxima needle nail knotted into the line
and a Perfection loop on the other end.

The loops does NOT go though the guides as well as a single knot, but I've
never had it cost me a fish.

I do change leaders fairly often, and sometimes on stream. The leader
construction I'd use on a windy day to cast a #18 PMD dry is very different
than what I'd use on a calm one, same river, same fly. I could "rebuild"
the leader butt to fit the situation but I prefer to just slip one off and
another one on ... laziness, for sure, but it works better for me ( I fished
several years using " a single leader per year' and didn't like it ). I
don't indicator nymph much, but when I do I use a very short stiff butt,
short transition and long tippet, I've tried casting dries with the same
leader and it is terrible, but very works well with weight and a bobber.

Another example? I recently fished Silver Creek and most days I would fish
downstream using a wimpy limpy LONG tippet, about 12 or 14 ft leader and a
Fall River twitch, to the fish sitting where they were available to that
presentation. When I reached the end of the area I intended to fish (
often defined by reaching another angler ) I would take a minute while
resting myself and the area to change to a much shorter, mostly butt, short
tippet ( 6 inches to a foot ) leader and work back upstream, casting across
stream to fish in tough lies, right on the bank or inches below exposed
weeds, fish that are nearly impossible to accurately cast to with either a
Fall River Twitch or a long wimpy leader. The short leader wouldn't give
more than a few inches of good drift, but greatly increased MY accuracy and
added fish to the "bag" that otherwise I wouldn't have gotten.

I have no doubt that those with greater skills than myself can "do it all"
with exactly the same leader ... I can't. And like the search for the
perfect "one rod for all fishing" I've given up on "one leader for all
fishing" and find loop to loop to be the best way to change to meet changing
conditions, mainly because I can spent the knot tying time indoors with no
wind, and good light instead of rebuilding on stream, with cold hands and
that rushed feeling feeding trout always instill in me.

YMMV

Tied up in knots....
 

"Intellect Enabled" wrote


Question: is it best just to go ahead and use the nail knot (which is
working fine) or is there some reason to learn to tie this loop to
line?

I use the loops, a short section of Maxima needle nail knotted into the line
and a Perfection loop on the other end.

The loops does NOT go though the guides as well as a single knot, but I've
never had it cost me a fish.

I do change leaders fairly often, and sometimes on stream. The leader
construction I'd use on a windy day to cast a #18 PMD dry is very different
than what I'd use on a calm one, same river, same fly. I could "rebuild"
the leader butt to fit the situation but I prefer to just slip one off and
another one on ... laziness, for sure, but it works better for me ( I fished
several years using " a single leader per year' and didn't like it ). I
don't indicator nymph much, but when I do I use a very short stiff butt,
short transition and long tippet, I've tried casting dries with the same
leader and it is terrible, but very works well with weight and a bobber.

Another example? I recently fished Silver Creek and most days I would fish
downstream using a wimpy limpy LONG tippet, about 12 or 14 ft leader and a
Fall River twitch, to the fish sitting where they were available to that
presentation. When I reached the end of the area I intended to fish (
often defined by reaching another angler ) I would take a minute while
resting myself and the area to change to a much shorter, mostly butt, short
tippet ( 6 inches to a foot ) leader and work back upstream, casting across
stream to fish in tough lies, right on the bank or inches below exposed
weeds, fish that are nearly impossible to accurately cast to with either a
Fall River Twitch or a long wimpy leader. The short leader wouldn't give
more than a few inches of good drift, but greatly increased MY accuracy and
added fish to the "bag" that otherwise I wouldn't have gotten.

I have no doubt that those with greater skills than myself can "do it all"
with exactly the same leader ... I can't. And like the search for the
perfect "one rod for all fishing" I've given up on "one leader for all
fishing" and find loop to loop to be the best way to change to meet changing
conditions, mainly because I can spent the knot tying time indoors with no
wind, and good light instead of rebuilding on stream, with cold hands and
that rushed feeling feeding trout always instill in me.

YMMV

Tied up in knots....
 

If you use a piece of mono nail-knotted to the fly line and a perfection loop
at the end, practice tying the perfection loop *first* on another piece of the
same mono. Your first try will yield a very big loop. Practice getting that
loop as small as you can.

Tied up in knots....
 

If you use a piece of mono nail-knotted to the fly line and a perfection loop
at the end, practice tying the perfection loop *first* on another piece of the
same mono. Your first try will yield a very big loop. Practice getting that
loop as small as you can.

Tied up in knots....
 

Larry L wrote:
snip
I have no doubt that those with greater skills than myself can "do it all"
with exactly the same leader ... I can't. And like the search for the
perfect "one rod for all fishing" I've given up on "one leader for all
fishing" and find loop to loop to be the best way to change to meet changing
conditions, mainly because I can spent the knot tying time indoors with no
wind, and good light instead of rebuilding on stream, with cold hands and
that rushed feeling feeding trout always instill in me. ...

I don't think anyone, no matter how "skilled", can do it all
with exactly the same leader.

The segment of leader that will almost always last a whole season
for me is 7.5' of factory tapered 3X nail knotted to the fly line.
But that segment can be used to construct many dozens of different
leaders to suit the situation. Then too, I'll use all 7.5' on a
5wt, but I'll cut off the butt end of the leader down to match the
diameter of a 3wt fly line.

You can make an almost infinite number of perfectly serviceable
leaders starting with a 7.5' factory tapered 3X, and that segment
usually lasts me a whole season.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Tied up in knots....
 

"Dave LaCourse" wrote


same mono. Your first try will yield a very big loop. Practice getting
that
loop as small as you can.


Very good point Dave .... the loops need to be small and it isn't an easy
knot to get the hang of ... besides ending up with a big loop it's very easy
to flip the know over tightening it and create a slip knot deal that won't
work ... as Dave suggests tie the loop first, the nail knot is a piece of
cake in comparison