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Question about loop leaders?
To loop or not to loop?
Are there disadvantages or advantages to the loop leader besides quick change? -tom |
Question about loop leaders?
Tom Nakashima wrote:
To loop or not to loop? Are there disadvantages or advantages to the loop leader besides quick change? Whoa, it's just like deja vu all over again. ;-) -- Ken Fortenberry |
Question about loop leaders?
Tom Nakashima wrote:
To loop or not to loop? Are there disadvantages or advantages to the loop leader besides quick change? Whoa, it's just like deja vu all over again. ;-) -- Ken Fortenberry |
Question about loop leaders?
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message m... Tom Nakashima wrote: To loop or not to loop? Are there disadvantages or advantages to the loop leader besides quick change? Whoa, it's just like deja vu all over again. ;-) -- Ken Fortenberry sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you could lead me to read about this? -tom |
Question about loop leaders?
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message m... Tom Nakashima wrote: To loop or not to loop? Are there disadvantages or advantages to the loop leader besides quick change? Whoa, it's just like deja vu all over again. ;-) -- Ken Fortenberry sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you could lead me to read about this? -tom |
Question about loop leaders?
Tom Nakashima wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message m... Tom Nakashima wrote: To loop or not to loop? Are there disadvantages or advantages to the loop leader besides quick change? Whoa, it's just like deja vu all over again. ;-) sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you could lead me to read about this? If you Google roff for loop leaders, you can find discussion ad nauseam regarding the unethical use of loop leaders. Here's the link for the search: http://tinyurl.com/4qt6h -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Question about loop leaders?
Tom Nakashima wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message m... Tom Nakashima wrote: To loop or not to loop? Are there disadvantages or advantages to the loop leader besides quick change? Whoa, it's just like deja vu all over again. ;-) -- Ken Fortenberry sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you could lead me to read about this? Ken's probably referring to this thread just discussed yesterday: http://tinyurl.com/5jsp5 You're just lucky that Ken is such a patient man. ;-) -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Question about loop leaders?
Tom Nakashima wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message m... Tom Nakashima wrote: To loop or not to loop? Are there disadvantages or advantages to the loop leader besides quick change? Whoa, it's just like deja vu all over again. ;-) -- Ken Fortenberry sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you could lead me to read about this? Ken's probably referring to this thread just discussed yesterday: http://tinyurl.com/5jsp5 You're just lucky that Ken is such a patient man. ;-) -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Question about loop leaders?
"Tim J." wrote in message ... Tom Nakashima wrote: sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you could lead me to read about this? Ken's probably referring to this thread just discussed yesterday: http://tinyurl.com/5jsp5 You're just lucky that Ken is such a patient man. ;-) -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj Yes, I read, The knots I know how to tie, and I never use the loops, I cut them off. I was wondering if there's a difference in the way the fly is presented with loop leaders -tom |
Question about loop leaders?
"Tim J." wrote in message ... Tom Nakashima wrote: sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you could lead me to read about this? Ken's probably referring to this thread just discussed yesterday: http://tinyurl.com/5jsp5 You're just lucky that Ken is such a patient man. ;-) -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj Yes, I read, The knots I know how to tie, and I never use the loops, I cut them off. I was wondering if there's a difference in the way the fly is presented with loop leaders -tom |
Question about loop leaders?
Tom Nakashima writes:
The knots I know how to tie, and I never use the loops, I cut them off. I was wondering if there's a difference in the way the fly is presented with loop leaders Some folks insist that a loop connection can produce a hinge effect when casting. I have used the mesh "Chinese finger trap" connectors Orvis likes so much, and loops made from mono that has been nail knotted to the fly line. I have never experienced this "hinge effect", however, I can understand how it got started. If the finger trap mesh thingy is installed improperly, it could hinge when the line is not forced all the way to the loops end before securing it. There are other options for connecting fly line to leader. Eagle make leader connectors which are small plastic thingies where the fly line is passed through and a simply knot made to hold it from slipping out. The leader is also passed through the opposite end of the leader link and a simply knot holds it in place. Lots of folks on roff use this method. Still another method is a recent proprietary release from Sci Anglers. You buy a kit with a plastic tool that installs a plastic thingy to the end of your fly line. The kit also allows you to attach a special proprietary leader sold only by Sci Anglers that attaches to the thingy. When you are through with that leader, you insert another thingy (there are five in the kit) and attach another leader. OR, you could tie a small perfection loop in the butt end of the orginal leader and go back to loop to loop. I've tried all the above methods but prefer the nail knot with a perfection loop at the other end of the short piece of mono. ymmv, of course. Dave |
Question about loop leaders?
Tom Nakashima writes:
The knots I know how to tie, and I never use the loops, I cut them off. I was wondering if there's a difference in the way the fly is presented with loop leaders Some folks insist that a loop connection can produce a hinge effect when casting. I have used the mesh "Chinese finger trap" connectors Orvis likes so much, and loops made from mono that has been nail knotted to the fly line. I have never experienced this "hinge effect", however, I can understand how it got started. If the finger trap mesh thingy is installed improperly, it could hinge when the line is not forced all the way to the loops end before securing it. There are other options for connecting fly line to leader. Eagle make leader connectors which are small plastic thingies where the fly line is passed through and a simply knot made to hold it from slipping out. The leader is also passed through the opposite end of the leader link and a simply knot holds it in place. Lots of folks on roff use this method. Still another method is a recent proprietary release from Sci Anglers. You buy a kit with a plastic tool that installs a plastic thingy to the end of your fly line. The kit also allows you to attach a special proprietary leader sold only by Sci Anglers that attaches to the thingy. When you are through with that leader, you insert another thingy (there are five in the kit) and attach another leader. OR, you could tie a small perfection loop in the butt end of the orginal leader and go back to loop to loop. I've tried all the above methods but prefer the nail knot with a perfection loop at the other end of the short piece of mono. ymmv, of course. Dave |
Question about loop leaders?
Tom Nakashima wrote:
"Tim J." wrote in message ... Tom Nakashima wrote: sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you could lead me to read about this? Ken's probably referring to this thread just discussed yesterday: http://tinyurl.com/5jsp5 You're just lucky that Ken is such a patient man. ;-) Yes, I read, The knots I know how to tie, and I never use the loops, I cut them off. I was wondering if there's a difference in the way the fly is presented with loop leaders No offense intended, Tom, but you should take a little more time to ask the question you want answered. There was nothing in your original post indicating you were asking about fly presentation. -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Question about loop leaders?
Tim J. wrote:
Tom Nakashima wrote: "Tim J." wrote in message ... Tom Nakashima wrote: sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you could lead me to read about this? Ken's probably referring to this thread just discussed yesterday: http://tinyurl.com/5jsp5 You're just lucky that Ken is such a patient man. ;-) Yes, I read, The knots I know how to tie, and I never use the loops, I cut them off. I was wondering if there's a difference in the way the fly is presented with loop leaders No offense intended, Tom, but you should take a little more time to ask the question you want answered. There was nothing in your original post indicating you were asking about fly presentation. That said, doing a Google search in roff for "loop leader fly presentation" turned up this oldie but goodie: http://tinyurl.com/5kcmn -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Question about loop leaders?
Tim J. wrote:
Tom Nakashima wrote: "Tim J." wrote in message ... Tom Nakashima wrote: sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you could lead me to read about this? Ken's probably referring to this thread just discussed yesterday: http://tinyurl.com/5jsp5 You're just lucky that Ken is such a patient man. ;-) Yes, I read, The knots I know how to tie, and I never use the loops, I cut them off. I was wondering if there's a difference in the way the fly is presented with loop leaders No offense intended, Tom, but you should take a little more time to ask the question you want answered. There was nothing in your original post indicating you were asking about fly presentation. That said, doing a Google search in roff for "loop leader fly presentation" turned up this oldie but goodie: http://tinyurl.com/5kcmn -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Question about loop leaders?
I should have added:
I have noticed no difference in presentation with any of the methods I mentioned. |
Question about loop leaders?
I should have added:
I have noticed no difference in presentation with any of the methods I mentioned. |
Question about loop leaders?
"Tim J." wrote in message ... Tom Nakashima wrote: "Tim J." wrote in message ... Tom Nakashima wrote: sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you could lead me to read about this? Ken's probably referring to this thread just discussed yesterday: http://tinyurl.com/5jsp5 You're just lucky that Ken is such a patient man. ;-) Yes, I read, The knots I know how to tie, and I never use the loops, I cut them off. I was wondering if there's a difference in the way the fly is presented with loop leaders No offense intended, Tom, but you should take a little more time to ask the question you want answered. There was nothing in your original post indicating you were asking about fly presentation. -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj Woops, I have a habit of thinking the experts know what I'm asking. Dave LaCourse did answer my question, and I will continue to use the nail knot as well. The hinge effect was what I wanted to ask, but didn't know the correct term to use. Thanks Dave, very good description. -tom |
Question about loop leaders?
Dave LaCourse writes:
Still another method is a recent proprietary release from Sci Anglers. I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential? I tried them and found them workable. But since right now my fishing is limited to sal****er in the periods between storms, and since they don't make them in sizes for larger lines, I will stick to my furled leaders with tippets looped on. -- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 When the dawn came up like thunder http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
Question about loop leaders?
Dave LaCourse writes:
Still another method is a recent proprietary release from Sci Anglers. I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential? I tried them and found them workable. But since right now my fishing is limited to sal****er in the periods between storms, and since they don't make them in sizes for larger lines, I will stick to my furled leaders with tippets looped on. -- Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69 When the dawn came up like thunder http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm |
Question about loop leaders?
Stev writes:
I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential? I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a perfection loop. |
Question about loop leaders?
Stev writes:
I take it that you found these satisfactory but not at all essential? I look upon it as just another gadget. As far as gadgets go, I think the leader link has it beat all to hell. I'll stick with the nail knot and a perfection loop. |
Question about loop leaders?
"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message ... SNIP There are other options for connecting fly line to leader. Eagle make leader connectors which are small plastic thingies where the fly line is passed through and a simply knot made to hold it from slipping out. The leader is also passed through the opposite end of the leader link and a simply knot holds it in place. Lots of folks on roff use this method. SNIP I've tried all the above methods but prefer the nail knot with a perfection loop at the other end of the short piece of mono. ymmv, of course. Dave There are methods, and there are methods, some are cheap and easy, and some are expensive and occasionally somewhat less than optimally efficacious. By and large, and assuming that one does it properly, I agree with what he and Ken said! :) TL MC |
Question about loop leaders?
"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message ... SNIP There are other options for connecting fly line to leader. Eagle make leader connectors which are small plastic thingies where the fly line is passed through and a simply knot made to hold it from slipping out. The leader is also passed through the opposite end of the leader link and a simply knot holds it in place. Lots of folks on roff use this method. SNIP I've tried all the above methods but prefer the nail knot with a perfection loop at the other end of the short piece of mono. ymmv, of course. Dave There are methods, and there are methods, some are cheap and easy, and some are expensive and occasionally somewhat less than optimally efficacious. By and large, and assuming that one does it properly, I agree with what he and Ken said! :) TL MC |
Question about loop leaders?
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:51:42 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote: "Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message om... Tom Nakashima wrote: To loop or not to loop? Are there disadvantages or advantages to the loop leader besides quick change? Whoa, it's just like deja vu all over again. ;-) -- Ken Fortenberry sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you could lead me to read about this? -tom I'm sure there is a FAQ somewhere that will completely disagree with a FAQ somewhere else. Let me make it easy for you - in most cases, loops suck. OTOH, if you wish to use them, that's why there's chocolate and vanilla... TC, R |
Question about loop leaders?
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:51:42 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote: "Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message om... Tom Nakashima wrote: To loop or not to loop? Are there disadvantages or advantages to the loop leader besides quick change? Whoa, it's just like deja vu all over again. ;-) -- Ken Fortenberry sorry about that, didn't know I hit a sore subject, is there an FAQ that you could lead me to read about this? -tom I'm sure there is a FAQ somewhere that will completely disagree with a FAQ somewhere else. Let me make it easy for you - in most cases, loops suck. OTOH, if you wish to use them, that's why there's chocolate and vanilla... TC, R |
Question about loop leaders?
"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message ... Tom Nakashima writes: The knots I know how to tie, and I never use the loops, I cut them off. I was wondering if there's a difference in the way the fly is presented with loop leaders Some folks insist that a loop connection can produce a hinge effect when casting. I have used the mesh "Chinese finger trap" connectors Orvis likes so much, and loops made from mono that has been nail knotted to the fly line. I have never experienced this "hinge effect", however, I can understand how it got started. If the finger trap mesh thingy is installed improperly, it could hinge when the line is not forced all the way to the loops end before securing it. No reason to let this thread die out just because the question that wasn't asked has been answered! I think all this discussion about the hinge effect is BS. I only use leader looks, and after a few hours of fishing, the two mating loops so totally enmesh themselves into each other that no hinging is possible. Besides, if you look closely at how two loops join, the hinge effect is only possible in one direction anyway, and the probablilty of the line unfolding in that specific orientation is pretty tiny (but this is irrelevant as the loops get 'set' and do not flex after awhile anyway). The real problems I experience with leader loops a 1) The knots seem to gather all the crud in the world. If I'm retrieving deep through mush, the leader comes up all stringy with the stuff. If I'm dryflying through floaties, same story. Cutting the tags close doesn't seem to solve the problem, as the gunk gets caught up in the little loops themselves. 2) When I'm stringing up my rod, or if I accidentally reel in too much line (usually when I have a long leader on), its very difficult to pull the line back out through the tip top. I have to hold the rod out at arm's length and the line out at arms length in the other direction, and wiggle the line until the tag on the perfection loop hops through. I have read about people snapping their tips doing this, and that always worries me. I could coat the knots with sealer, but then that's just another mass of goop making my leader offbalance, and splashing on my casts. I now swap leaders out far less often than I did when I was a newbie, so I'm going to cut off all my leader loops, tie a good butt section onto the line with a nail knot, and then tie on the leaders with another nail knot. Now that I've been fishing with Vaughan, I've discovered that I love them nail knots! I don't even do surgeon's knots anymore. --riverman |
Question about loop leaders?
"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message ... Tom Nakashima writes: The knots I know how to tie, and I never use the loops, I cut them off. I was wondering if there's a difference in the way the fly is presented with loop leaders Some folks insist that a loop connection can produce a hinge effect when casting. I have used the mesh "Chinese finger trap" connectors Orvis likes so much, and loops made from mono that has been nail knotted to the fly line. I have never experienced this "hinge effect", however, I can understand how it got started. If the finger trap mesh thingy is installed improperly, it could hinge when the line is not forced all the way to the loops end before securing it. No reason to let this thread die out just because the question that wasn't asked has been answered! I think all this discussion about the hinge effect is BS. I only use leader looks, and after a few hours of fishing, the two mating loops so totally enmesh themselves into each other that no hinging is possible. Besides, if you look closely at how two loops join, the hinge effect is only possible in one direction anyway, and the probablilty of the line unfolding in that specific orientation is pretty tiny (but this is irrelevant as the loops get 'set' and do not flex after awhile anyway). The real problems I experience with leader loops a 1) The knots seem to gather all the crud in the world. If I'm retrieving deep through mush, the leader comes up all stringy with the stuff. If I'm dryflying through floaties, same story. Cutting the tags close doesn't seem to solve the problem, as the gunk gets caught up in the little loops themselves. 2) When I'm stringing up my rod, or if I accidentally reel in too much line (usually when I have a long leader on), its very difficult to pull the line back out through the tip top. I have to hold the rod out at arm's length and the line out at arms length in the other direction, and wiggle the line until the tag on the perfection loop hops through. I have read about people snapping their tips doing this, and that always worries me. I could coat the knots with sealer, but then that's just another mass of goop making my leader offbalance, and splashing on my casts. I now swap leaders out far less often than I did when I was a newbie, so I'm going to cut off all my leader loops, tie a good butt section onto the line with a nail knot, and then tie on the leaders with another nail knot. Now that I've been fishing with Vaughan, I've discovered that I love them nail knots! I don't even do surgeon's knots anymore. --riverman |
Question about loop leaders?
Riverman writes: No reason to let this thread die out just because the question that wasn't asked has been answered! Well, the question that *was* asked has been answered. As far as hinging is concerned, I have never experienced it. But/however, I have heard talk about improperly installed mesh loop connectors (the Chinese finger trap thingies that Orvis loves) having a hinge effect. If there is not a continuity from line to leader, a hinge could occur. If you use the mesh loops, ensure that the fly line is inserted all the way to the loop part of the connector. Then it won't hinge. |
Question about loop leaders?
Riverman writes: No reason to let this thread die out just because the question that wasn't asked has been answered! Well, the question that *was* asked has been answered. As far as hinging is concerned, I have never experienced it. But/however, I have heard talk about improperly installed mesh loop connectors (the Chinese finger trap thingies that Orvis loves) having a hinge effect. If there is not a continuity from line to leader, a hinge could occur. If you use the mesh loops, ensure that the fly line is inserted all the way to the loop part of the connector. Then it won't hinge. |
Question about loop leaders?
riverman wrote:
The real problems I experience with leader loops a 1) The knots seem to gather all the crud in the world. If I'm retrieving deep through mush, the leader comes up all stringy with the stuff. If I'm dryflying through floaties, same story. Cutting the tags close doesn't seem to solve the problem, as the gunk gets caught up in the little loops themselves. 2) When I'm stringing up my rod, or if I accidentally reel in too much line (usually when I have a long leader on), its very difficult to pull the line back out through the tip top. I have to hold the rod out at arm's length and the line out at arms length in the other direction, and wiggle the line until the tag on the perfection loop hops through. I have read about people snapping their tips doing this, and that always worries me. Bingo. I'll add two more complaints about loops: (1) No matter how small you make the loops, there will be a section of the leader with twice the density of the rest of the leader. This can't be good for delicate casting and presentation. (2) Once the loops are snugged up into a square knot, I find it just as difficult and time consuming to change loop connections as it is to tie a blood knot in heavy mono, if not more so. Now that I've been fishing with Vaughan, I've discovered that I love them nail knots! I don't even do surgeon's knots anymore. I don't understand that, riverman. A nail knot is used to connect the butt section to the fly line. No one of my acquaintance (with the possible exception of wayno) would ever use a surgeon's knot for that. The two knots -- nail and surgeon's -- have completely different applications. The surgeon's is used to attach tippet. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
Question about loop leaders?
riverman wrote:
The real problems I experience with leader loops a 1) The knots seem to gather all the crud in the world. If I'm retrieving deep through mush, the leader comes up all stringy with the stuff. If I'm dryflying through floaties, same story. Cutting the tags close doesn't seem to solve the problem, as the gunk gets caught up in the little loops themselves. 2) When I'm stringing up my rod, or if I accidentally reel in too much line (usually when I have a long leader on), its very difficult to pull the line back out through the tip top. I have to hold the rod out at arm's length and the line out at arms length in the other direction, and wiggle the line until the tag on the perfection loop hops through. I have read about people snapping their tips doing this, and that always worries me. Bingo. I'll add two more complaints about loops: (1) No matter how small you make the loops, there will be a section of the leader with twice the density of the rest of the leader. This can't be good for delicate casting and presentation. (2) Once the loops are snugged up into a square knot, I find it just as difficult and time consuming to change loop connections as it is to tie a blood knot in heavy mono, if not more so. Now that I've been fishing with Vaughan, I've discovered that I love them nail knots! I don't even do surgeon's knots anymore. I don't understand that, riverman. A nail knot is used to connect the butt section to the fly line. No one of my acquaintance (with the possible exception of wayno) would ever use a surgeon's knot for that. The two knots -- nail and surgeon's -- have completely different applications. The surgeon's is used to attach tippet. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
Question about loop leaders?
"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message ... Riverman writes: No reason to let this thread die out just because the question that wasn't asked has been answered! Well, the question that *was* asked has been answered. As far as hinging is concerned, I have never experienced it. But/however, I have heard talk about improperly installed mesh loop connectors (the Chinese finger trap thingies that Orvis loves) having a hinge effect. If there is not a continuity from line to leader, a hinge could occur. If you use the mesh loops, ensure that the fly line is inserted all the way to the loop part of the connector. Then it won't hinge. Ahhhh, I see. I agree that the place a hinge could occur would be in the connector part of the loop, not between the loops. If the line is not inserted all the way, then yes, the woven loop material is considerably more flexible than the fly line. I figured folks were talking about the hinge occuring where the two loops connect, and that's not very possible if the two loops are seated correctly. --riverman |
Question about loop leaders?
"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message ... Riverman writes: No reason to let this thread die out just because the question that wasn't asked has been answered! Well, the question that *was* asked has been answered. As far as hinging is concerned, I have never experienced it. But/however, I have heard talk about improperly installed mesh loop connectors (the Chinese finger trap thingies that Orvis loves) having a hinge effect. If there is not a continuity from line to leader, a hinge could occur. If you use the mesh loops, ensure that the fly line is inserted all the way to the loop part of the connector. Then it won't hinge. Ahhhh, I see. I agree that the place a hinge could occur would be in the connector part of the loop, not between the loops. If the line is not inserted all the way, then yes, the woven loop material is considerably more flexible than the fly line. I figured folks were talking about the hinge occuring where the two loops connect, and that's not very possible if the two loops are seated correctly. --riverman |
Question about loop leaders?
"rw" wrote in message m... riverman wrote: Now that I've been fishing with Vaughan, I've discovered that I love them nail knots! I don't even do surgeon's knots anymore. I don't understand that, riverman. A nail knot is used to connect the butt section to the fly line. No one of my acquaintance (with the possible exception of wayno) would ever use a surgeon's knot for that. The two knots -- nail and surgeon's -- have completely different applications. The surgeon's is used to attach tippet. Well, you're right to be confused by that because I just suffered from KNFU (knot name fu*k up). I don't use nail knots instead of surgeon's knots; I use opposing Uniknots, also called Grinners. And seeing as how this thread is about nail knots, that reply was a complete nonsequitor. :-( But anyway.... :-) ....when I tie on a tippet, I used to use surgeon's knots. But the surgeon's knots never left the two tippets 'in line'; one always came off at a slightly skewed angle. If I was tying different strengths of tippet, the ensuing leader was all skewed, with little 'elbows' everywhere. And if my backcast brushed a hill behind me, I would inevitably discover that had I burned my line when tightening because the damn leader would break right at one of the knots. Now, I tie on my tippets like this: I keep 4 or 5 spools of tippet hanging on a leash on my vest. I'll pull off the end of the 3x and the 5x, then tie them together with two Grinners. Then, I pull off several feet of the 3x, snip it off and tie it onto my leader butt with the same knots. Then I pull off several feet of the 5x and snip that off, and tie on the fly. This means if I drop the tippet while tying it on, I don't lose it in the grass or river. Also, I can 'build' a tapered leader right there on my vest without getting all the line tangled. And the opposing Uniknots line up in a straight line, the tag ends are almost invisible, its a much smoother knot when passing through the tiptop, and I think its stronger. --riverman |
Question about loop leaders?
"rw" wrote in message m... riverman wrote: Now that I've been fishing with Vaughan, I've discovered that I love them nail knots! I don't even do surgeon's knots anymore. I don't understand that, riverman. A nail knot is used to connect the butt section to the fly line. No one of my acquaintance (with the possible exception of wayno) would ever use a surgeon's knot for that. The two knots -- nail and surgeon's -- have completely different applications. The surgeon's is used to attach tippet. Well, you're right to be confused by that because I just suffered from KNFU (knot name fu*k up). I don't use nail knots instead of surgeon's knots; I use opposing Uniknots, also called Grinners. And seeing as how this thread is about nail knots, that reply was a complete nonsequitor. :-( But anyway.... :-) ....when I tie on a tippet, I used to use surgeon's knots. But the surgeon's knots never left the two tippets 'in line'; one always came off at a slightly skewed angle. If I was tying different strengths of tippet, the ensuing leader was all skewed, with little 'elbows' everywhere. And if my backcast brushed a hill behind me, I would inevitably discover that had I burned my line when tightening because the damn leader would break right at one of the knots. Now, I tie on my tippets like this: I keep 4 or 5 spools of tippet hanging on a leash on my vest. I'll pull off the end of the 3x and the 5x, then tie them together with two Grinners. Then, I pull off several feet of the 3x, snip it off and tie it onto my leader butt with the same knots. Then I pull off several feet of the 5x and snip that off, and tie on the fly. This means if I drop the tippet while tying it on, I don't lose it in the grass or river. Also, I can 'build' a tapered leader right there on my vest without getting all the line tangled. And the opposing Uniknots line up in a straight line, the tag ends are almost invisible, its a much smoother knot when passing through the tiptop, and I think its stronger. --riverman |
Question about loop leaders?
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Question about loop leaders?
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Question about loop leaders?
"Willi & Sue" wrote in message ... That's what I do. I find it works well. Nail knots with heavy tippet are easy to tie. That should read blood knot. Nail knots are never easy IMO. Really? I find nail knots in lighter material pretty simple: I just run the lines parallel, make 3 or 4 large loops, pass the line back through them, adjust and tighten. In stiff material, using a thin straw makes it very simple. We all talked about that a few months ago, iirc. Blood knots, otoh, are a freaking nightmare! But what do you mean; you use a blood knot to attach the butt to the line, or the butt to the leader? --riverman |
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