A Local Pond
 

It was a cloudy day today so I went over to my local river thinking
there might be a good BWO hatch. Instead of a hatch I found a river that
was about two feet above normal levels. I met a guy there that was
throwing a Rapala and we started talking. We bull****ted about different
places we fish and he mentioned a small local pond that held some big
Browns. He told stories of hooking Browns of 10 pounds. He was heading
home and offered to show it to me with the proviso that I release the
fish and that I don't tell anyone about it. I was more than skeptical but
what the hell. The guy was friendly and seemed like a nice guy. When we
got to the pond, he took off for home. I took a look at the pond and
thought the guy was crazy. I had driven by the pond probably over a
hundred times and never gave it a thought. All the ponds that size I had
fished in the area held only tiny, stunted Bluegills and a few Carp. The
water in such a small pond would get too warm in the Summer to hold
trout, but since I was there, I thought I'd give it a try.

A picture of the pond: http://www.crystalglen.net/Fishing/Image13.jpg

I first took a look at the outlet which is directly down the bank in the
above picture. To my surprise I saw a Brown of about 14 inches just off the
shore. I looked more closely and saw a BIG fish out about ten feet.
I tied on a damsel nymph and made a cast. As the nymph sunk, the big fish
turned and took a casual look at the nymph, but as the fly approached, it
slowly swam off, taking the smaller fish with it. The pond now had my
interest!

I started walking around the pond. The first area I came to was deep and
I was unable to see the bottom or any fish. I threw around 10 casts through
that area with no response. I moved on a bit and came to a shallower
area where I could see the tops of the extensive weedbeds. Then I
started seeing fish. There were a couple groups of fish cruising within
sight. The fish in the groups were in three pretty distinct sizes. The
small fish were about 12 to 14 inches. The next size were in the 20 inch
range and there were two VERY big fish. I cast the damsel out and as it
sank, one fish moved about ten feet to take a look as the fly sank. It
didn't like the fly and swam off. I retrieved the fly just fast enough
to keep it over the weeds but whenever it approached a fish, the fish
slowly swam off. The next few casts were the same, a fish would show
interest as the fly sank but wouldn't take and would move away as I
retrieved the fly. I started changing flies going down in size. Same
routine, interest while the fly sank but it was rejected when it sank to
the bottom and the fish continued to avoid the retrieved fly. I was down
to my last trick and it was about time for me to get back to work. I
tied on a dry and added a dropper about two feet long. The dropper
arrangement would keep the fly above the weeds. I put on a size 18 PT on
the dropper.

The fish had cruised some and my first cast ended behind the group of fish
and was ignored. On the next cast, one of the medium sized fish swam
over and inspected the nymph. I just let the fly lie there and the fish
continued to look. After what seemed like a couple minutes, the dry was
pulled under.

I hooked up and the fish fought well including a couple jumps. Luckily,
it didn't bull into the weeds and I landed it with the fly just barely
hanging on by a small tag of skin.

http://www.crystalglen.net/Fishing/Image2.jpg

Nice heavy fish. Time to go home. Great find, I will be back.

Willi

A Local Pond
 

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:42:11 -0600, Willi & Sue wrote:

Nice heavy fish. Time to go home. Great find, I will be back.

Cool, Willi.
--
Charlie...

A Local Pond
 

Charlie Choc wrote:
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:42:11 -0600, Willi & Sue wrote:


Nice heavy fish. Time to go home. Great find, I will be back.


Cool, Willi.

Very.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

A Local Pond
 

"Willi & Sue" wrote in message
...
It was a cloudy day today so I went over to my local river thinking

[snip]


Good grief! That pond looks to be about twice the size of a bathtub. Must be
much deeper than it looks and spring fed. Nice TR, Willi.

Danl

A Local Pond
 

"Willi & Sue" wrote in message
...
It was a cloudy day today so I went over to my local river thinking

[snip]


Good grief! That pond looks to be about twice the size of a bathtub. Must be
much deeper than it looks and spring fed. Nice TR, Willi.

Danl

A Local Pond
 

Who would of thunk to fish a pond that size for trout that size..........Looks
like the fish has no jaws nice and fat though must be alot of slow food in the
pond...........


Handyman Mike
Standing in a river waving a stick

A Local Pond
 

Who would of thunk to fish a pond that size for trout that size..........Looks
like the fish has no jaws nice and fat though must be alot of slow food in the
pond...........


Handyman Mike
Standing in a river waving a stick

A Local Pond
 

"Willi & Sue" wrote


g. The dropper
arrangement would keep the fly above the weeds. I put on a size 18 PT on
the dropper.



I'm certain that you are a far better fisherman than myself, and the PT
clearly worked

BUT

I fish a couple places where it seems nearly impossible to move the
subsurface fly without putting the fish off and thus I use a similar dropper
and long wait tactic..... the tier in me always trying to reduce that wait

Some of your posts have shown that one thing you and I have in common is a
love for flies with soft materials and built in action ... I envy you
your little pond and the chance to experiment. I'd start with a
featherduster variant, or maybe something with filoplume for gills, ... oh,
oh, ... and maybe on a curved hook so it seemed to wiggle it's tails as the
hook bobbed in the slight currents .... and a very short ( real short, one
twist ) single strand of crystal flash at the thorax, such a tiny "spark"
seems to blink on on off with the slightest movement and makes the fly look
more alive, I have better luck with it than a traditional "flashback" Keep
us posted, it's an interesting situation ...

BTW, I've never fished in Colorado and am thinking of going there for a
month or so next summer ... as well as spending some time in Alberta ...
expanding my "Montanahoming" trip to include a much larger area ...... I'd
like to meet you and chat about flies tied with Golden Retriever underfur
for an hour or so G ...

A Local Pond
 

"Willi & Sue" wrote


g. The dropper
arrangement would keep the fly above the weeds. I put on a size 18 PT on
the dropper.



I'm certain that you are a far better fisherman than myself, and the PT
clearly worked

BUT

I fish a couple places where it seems nearly impossible to move the
subsurface fly without putting the fish off and thus I use a similar dropper
and long wait tactic..... the tier in me always trying to reduce that wait

Some of your posts have shown that one thing you and I have in common is a
love for flies with soft materials and built in action ... I envy you
your little pond and the chance to experiment. I'd start with a
featherduster variant, or maybe something with filoplume for gills, ... oh,
oh, ... and maybe on a curved hook so it seemed to wiggle it's tails as the
hook bobbed in the slight currents .... and a very short ( real short, one
twist ) single strand of crystal flash at the thorax, such a tiny "spark"
seems to blink on on off with the slightest movement and makes the fly look
more alive, I have better luck with it than a traditional "flashback" Keep
us posted, it's an interesting situation ...

BTW, I've never fished in Colorado and am thinking of going there for a
month or so next summer ... as well as spending some time in Alberta ...
expanding my "Montanahoming" trip to include a much larger area ...... I'd
like to meet you and chat about flies tied with Golden Retriever underfur
for an hour or so G ...

A Local Pond
 

"Willi & Sue" wrote


g. The dropper
arrangement would keep the fly above the weeds. I put on a size 18 PT on
the dropper.



I'm certain that you are a far better fisherman than myself, and the PT
clearly worked

BUT

I fish a couple places where it seems nearly impossible to move the
subsurface fly without putting the fish off and thus I use a similar dropper
and long wait tactic..... the tier in me always trying to reduce that wait

Some of your posts have shown that one thing you and I have in common is a
love for flies with soft materials and built in action ... I envy you
your little pond and the chance to experiment. I'd start with a
featherduster variant, or maybe something with filoplume for gills, ... oh,
oh, ... and maybe on a curved hook so it seemed to wiggle it's tails as the
hook bobbed in the slight currents .... and a very short ( real short, one
twist ) single strand of crystal flash at the thorax, such a tiny "spark"
seems to blink on on off with the slightest movement and makes the fly look
more alive, I have better luck with it than a traditional "flashback" Keep
us posted, it's an interesting situation ...

BTW, I've never fished in Colorado and am thinking of going there for a
month or so next summer ... as well as spending some time in Alberta ...
expanding my "Montanahoming" trip to include a much larger area ...... I'd
like to meet you and chat about flies tied with Golden Retriever underfur
for an hour or so G ...

A Local Pond
 

Larry L wrote:

Some of your posts have shown that one thing you and I have in common is a
love for flies with soft materials and built in action ... I envy you
your little pond and the chance to experiment.

I think those large browns in that little pond are facing a very
difficult time. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

A Local Pond
 

Larry L wrote:

Some of your posts have shown that one thing you and I have in common is a
love for flies with soft materials and built in action ... I envy you
your little pond and the chance to experiment.

I think those large browns in that little pond are facing a very
difficult time. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

A Local Pond
 

Larry L wrote:


BUT

I fish a couple places where it seems nearly impossible to move the
subsurface fly without putting the fish off and thus I use a similar dropper
and long wait tactic..... the tier in me always trying to reduce that wait

Some of your posts have shown that one thing you and I have in common is a
love for flies with soft materials and built in action ... I envy you
your little pond and the chance to experiment. I'd start with a
featherduster variant, or maybe something with filoplume for gills, ... oh,
oh, ... and maybe on a curved hook so it seemed to wiggle it's tails as the
hook bobbed in the slight currents .... and a very short ( real short, one
twist ) single strand of crystal flash at the thorax, such a tiny "spark"
seems to blink on on off with the slightest movement and makes the fly look
more alive, I have better luck with it than a traditional "flashback" Keep
us posted, it's an interesting situation ...

The only thing I noticed hatching were VERY tiny midges. Being this late
in the season, I'm guessing that's the only hatching bugs they see. I
don't fish lakes much, don't like the blind casting and I've always
taken a pretty crude approach and flung large flies like damsels,
buggers, etc. What's to cool to me about this pond is that I can sight fish
and watch the fishes reaction. I went from "crude" and kept going down
in size until I got
the fish on an 18 PT. Next time I'll probably try some San Juan
patterns. However, I have concerns about being able to control one of
the better fish on the light tippet that would be needed. I should be
able to get back by midweek.



BTW, I've never fished in Colorado and am thinking of going there for a
month or so next summer ... as well as spending some time in Alberta ...
expanding my "Montanahoming" trip to include a much larger area ...... I'd
like to meet you and chat about flies tied with Golden Retriever underfur
for an hour or so G ...



Colorado has some excellent fishing, probably some of the best smaller
water fishing in the Country. However, virtually all our waters are
freestone streams and rivers which you're not to fond of. I'd be glad
to show you around. I know of a couple local spots I think you'd like.
Think you'll have fun in Alberta.

Speaking of next year, is there interest in an Alaskan trip? The
motor home "deal" sounds good and during the time I'd like to do a fly in
float for several days. I'm planning on doing some research but I don't
even know where to start. Alaska is a BIG place.

Willi

A Local Pond
 

Larry L wrote:


BUT

I fish a couple places where it seems nearly impossible to move the
subsurface fly without putting the fish off and thus I use a similar dropper
and long wait tactic..... the tier in me always trying to reduce that wait

Some of your posts have shown that one thing you and I have in common is a
love for flies with soft materials and built in action ... I envy you
your little pond and the chance to experiment. I'd start with a
featherduster variant, or maybe something with filoplume for gills, ... oh,
oh, ... and maybe on a curved hook so it seemed to wiggle it's tails as the
hook bobbed in the slight currents .... and a very short ( real short, one
twist ) single strand of crystal flash at the thorax, such a tiny "spark"
seems to blink on on off with the slightest movement and makes the fly look
more alive, I have better luck with it than a traditional "flashback" Keep
us posted, it's an interesting situation ...

The only thing I noticed hatching were VERY tiny midges. Being this late
in the season, I'm guessing that's the only hatching bugs they see. I
don't fish lakes much, don't like the blind casting and I've always
taken a pretty crude approach and flung large flies like damsels,
buggers, etc. What's to cool to me about this pond is that I can sight fish
and watch the fishes reaction. I went from "crude" and kept going down
in size until I got
the fish on an 18 PT. Next time I'll probably try some San Juan
patterns. However, I have concerns about being able to control one of
the better fish on the light tippet that would be needed. I should be
able to get back by midweek.



BTW, I've never fished in Colorado and am thinking of going there for a
month or so next summer ... as well as spending some time in Alberta ...
expanding my "Montanahoming" trip to include a much larger area ...... I'd
like to meet you and chat about flies tied with Golden Retriever underfur
for an hour or so G ...



Colorado has some excellent fishing, probably some of the best smaller
water fishing in the Country. However, virtually all our waters are
freestone streams and rivers which you're not to fond of. I'd be glad
to show you around. I know of a couple local spots I think you'd like.
Think you'll have fun in Alberta.

Speaking of next year, is there interest in an Alaskan trip? The
motor home "deal" sounds good and during the time I'd like to do a fly in
float for several days. I'm planning on doing some research but I don't
even know where to start. Alaska is a BIG place.

Willi

A Local Pond
 

"Willi & Sue" wrote in message
...
Larry L wrote:

Speaking of next year, is there interest in an Alaskan trip? The
motor home "deal" sounds good and during the time I'd like to do a fly in
float for several days. I'm planning on doing some research but I don't
even know where to start. Alaska is a BIG place.

I've got grad school until the third week in July, but after that I'd be
very interested in heading up (along with SWMBO). We'd probably buy a camper
van in Arizona, then do a fast drive north (a week, I think), then mosey
southwards ahead of the season changes. If there's a rolling clave going on,
we'd definately hook up.

--riverman

A Local Pond
 

Willi & Sue wrote in message news:41706010$0$210
The fish had cruised some and my first cast ended behind the group of fish
and was ignored. On the next cast, one of the medium sized fish swam
over and inspected the nymph. I just let the fly lie there and the fish
continued to look. After what seemed like a couple minutes, the dry was
pulled under.

I've had luck with browns in the instance where they come over to
inspect the fly and swim away, by taking the fly away when they're
about to inspect it,.. make three or four false casts while they're
wondering about where it went, and then put it back at their nose.
Quite often they'll take it without hesitation given a second chance.

A Local Pond
 

Willi & Sue wrote in message news:41706010$0$210
The fish had cruised some and my first cast ended behind the group of fish
and was ignored. On the next cast, one of the medium sized fish swam
over and inspected the nymph. I just let the fly lie there and the fish
continued to look. After what seemed like a couple minutes, the dry was
pulled under.

I've had luck with browns in the instance where they come over to
inspect the fly and swim away, by taking the fly away when they're
about to inspect it,.. make three or four false casts while they're
wondering about where it went, and then put it back at their nose.
Quite often they'll take it without hesitation given a second chance.

A Local Pond
 

"Willi & Sue" wrote

the fish on an 18 PT. Next time I'll probably try some San Juan
patterns. However, I have concerns about being able to control one of
the better fish on the light tippet that would be needed. I should be
able to get back by midweek.




The 20/20 thing is pretty easy ( 20"trout, size 20 fly) and 22/22 isn't that
hard. I've never done 24/24 and I bet it's pretty rare amongst honest fly
fishers ( yeah, yeah, there really are 3 honest fly fishermen, me and the
other two ... and I ain't ever done 24/24 :-) ... But I vote you go for a
26/26 if there's a Brown that size in there, Willi ... I got faith in ya
G

A Local Pond
 

"Willi & Sue" wrote

the fish on an 18 PT. Next time I'll probably try some San Juan
patterns. However, I have concerns about being able to control one of
the better fish on the light tippet that would be needed. I should be
able to get back by midweek.




The 20/20 thing is pretty easy ( 20"trout, size 20 fly) and 22/22 isn't that
hard. I've never done 24/24 and I bet it's pretty rare amongst honest fly
fishers ( yeah, yeah, there really are 3 honest fly fishermen, me and the
other two ... and I ain't ever done 24/24 :-) ... But I vote you go for a
26/26 if there's a Brown that size in there, Willi ... I got faith in ya
G

A Local Pond
 

Larry L wrote:

"Willi & Sue" wrote


the fish on an 18 PT. Next time I'll probably try some San Juan
patterns. However, I have concerns about being able to control one of
the better fish on the light tippet that would be needed. I should be
able to get back by midweek.





The 20/20 thing is pretty easy ( 20"trout, size 20 fly) and 22/22 isn't that
hard. I've never done 24/24 and I bet it's pretty rare amongst honest fly
fishers ( yeah, yeah, there really are 3 honest fly fishermen, me and the
other two ... and I ain't ever done 24/24 :-) ...


A TRUE 20/20 ain't that easy, a TRUE 22/22 is hard and a TRUE 24/24 even
harder. It's not so much with the difficulty of hooking and landing
them (not that it isn't a challenge) but it's that a fish that size is
uncommonly big in every river and stream I've ever fished. Some ponds
and lakes do yield bigger fish. Even true 20" trout aren't very common
although it seems that some people catch them on every outing. Once a
trout reaches about 15 or 16 inches in most waters, they start putting
on some bulk and begin taking on a different body confirmation. They
start looking big. 20" seems like a magic number and so big fish equals
20".


But I vote you go for a
26/26 if there's a Brown that size in there, Willi ... I got faith in ya

I saw two that MIGHT approach that, but I'm thinking around 24". The
fish I landed was a little shy of 20" and those two were considerably
bigger. Don't think I'll be using a size 26 fly though (don't think I
even have a 26 size hook).

I'm guessing I might hookup next Spring when there's some bigger bugs
moving around.

Willi

A Local Pond
 

Larry L wrote:

"Willi & Sue" wrote


the fish on an 18 PT. Next time I'll probably try some San Juan
patterns. However, I have concerns about being able to control one of
the better fish on the light tippet that would be needed. I should be
able to get back by midweek.





The 20/20 thing is pretty easy ( 20"trout, size 20 fly) and 22/22 isn't that
hard. I've never done 24/24 and I bet it's pretty rare amongst honest fly
fishers ( yeah, yeah, there really are 3 honest fly fishermen, me and the
other two ... and I ain't ever done 24/24 :-) ...


A TRUE 20/20 ain't that easy, a TRUE 22/22 is hard and a TRUE 24/24 even
harder. It's not so much with the difficulty of hooking and landing
them (not that it isn't a challenge) but it's that a fish that size is
uncommonly big in every river and stream I've ever fished. Some ponds
and lakes do yield bigger fish. Even true 20" trout aren't very common
although it seems that some people catch them on every outing. Once a
trout reaches about 15 or 16 inches in most waters, they start putting
on some bulk and begin taking on a different body confirmation. They
start looking big. 20" seems like a magic number and so big fish equals
20".


But I vote you go for a
26/26 if there's a Brown that size in there, Willi ... I got faith in ya

I saw two that MIGHT approach that, but I'm thinking around 24". The
fish I landed was a little shy of 20" and those two were considerably
bigger. Don't think I'll be using a size 26 fly though (don't think I
even have a 26 size hook).

I'm guessing I might hookup next Spring when there's some bigger bugs
moving around.

Willi

A Local Pond
 

Larry L wrote:

The 20/20 thing is pretty easy ( 20"trout, size 20 fly) and 22/22 isn't that
hard. ...

Says you. The 20/20 thing is NOT pretty easy, it's a damn hard thing
to do unless you fish phoney baloney tailwaters. In real life 20/20
is a worthwhile accomplishment, something you can brag about to your
wife while she rolls her eyes and gives you that "you're so full of
****" look. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

A Local Pond
 

Larry L wrote:

The 20/20 thing is pretty easy ( 20"trout, size 20 fly) and 22/22 isn't that
hard. ...

Says you. The 20/20 thing is NOT pretty easy, it's a damn hard thing
to do unless you fish phoney baloney tailwaters. In real life 20/20
is a worthwhile accomplishment, something you can brag about to your
wife while she rolls her eyes and gives you that "you're so full of
****" look. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

A Local Pond
 

"Willi & Sue" wrote



A TRUE 20/20 ain't that easy, a TRUE 22/22 is hard and a TRUE 24/24 even
harder. It's not so much with the difficulty of hooking and landing
them (not that it isn't a challenge) but it's that a fish that size is
uncommonly big in every river and stream I've ever fished.



I agree that around 20 is where most good streams peak out in fish size ...
but some good lakes provide a very reasonable chance for bigger fish on
small patterns ... bet your pond does

A Local Pond
 

"Willi & Sue" wrote



A TRUE 20/20 ain't that easy, a TRUE 22/22 is hard and a TRUE 24/24 even
harder. It's not so much with the difficulty of hooking and landing
them (not that it isn't a challenge) but it's that a fish that size is
uncommonly big in every river and stream I've ever fished.



I agree that around 20 is where most good streams peak out in fish size ...
but some good lakes provide a very reasonable chance for bigger fish on
small patterns ... bet your pond does

A Local Pond
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote

.. The 20/20 thing is NOT pretty easy, it's a damn hard thing
to do unless you fish phoney baloney tailwaters.

I didn't mean to discount "20/20" it is a worthy accomplishment.

I guess I meant to say "20/20 is do-able" ... not easy. I've done it, and
I'm a mediocre fisherman.

A Local Pond
 

In real life 20/20
is a worthwhile accomplishment, something you can brag about to your
wife while she rolls her eyes and gives you that "you're so full of
****" look. ;-)

I don't get the "you're so full of ****" look. I get the "ask me if I give a
****" version. {;-)


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

A Local Pond
 

In real life 20/20
is a worthwhile accomplishment, something you can brag about to your
wife while she rolls her eyes and gives you that "you're so full of
****" look. ;-)

I don't get the "you're so full of ****" look. I get the "ask me if I give a
****" version. {;-)


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

A Local Pond
 

"George Adams" wrote in message
...
In real life 20/20
is a worthwhile accomplishment, something you can brag about to your
wife while she rolls her eyes and gives you that "you're so full of
****" look. ;-)

I don't get the "you're so full of ****" look. I get the "ask me if I give
a
****" version. {;-)


That sure beats the "You're blocking the TV" version...

--riverman

A Local Pond
 

"George Adams" wrote in message
...
In real life 20/20
is a worthwhile accomplishment, something you can brag about to your
wife while she rolls her eyes and gives you that "you're so full of
****" look. ;-)

I don't get the "you're so full of ****" look. I get the "ask me if I give
a
****" version. {;-)


That sure beats the "You're blocking the TV" version...

--riverman

A Local Pond
 

"Jonathan Cook" wrote in message
...
Willi & Sue wrote:

motor home "deal" sounds good and during the time I'd like to do a fly
in
float for several days.
(snip)

Jon wrote:
A few guys from our local club just gave a presentation on their
Alaska trip from a few weeks ago.

They did an unguided trip, flew into Kodiak, rented cars, stayed
in a Kodiak hotel and fished local rivers (within 40 miles?).
(some snipped)
I think it was less than $1500 a person, including airfare to get
there (about $700 itself).


Hi Jon,
Sounds pretty reasonable to me given some of the prices I've seen. Never
been there. Always wanted to go. I was envious of Dave LaCourse's trip,
but that won't happen for me.
Willi's motor home thing sounds like fun, but I'd probably want to stop
every five minutes or so to take pics. (grin) . . .and nobody would let me.
Heh . . . and I'm allergic to smoke and snoring (whata wimp)
Fun to see this Alaska thing keep slowly evolving. (still not sure I would
ever make it, but maybe)
BestWishes,
DaveMohnsen
Denver
( posting to a thread starting in a local pond in Colorado and ending up in
Alaska . . .hmmm . . .sure, why not?)

Addendum:
Some of smart guys around here might want to look into the timeshare thing.
(people in the program of choice can trade out condos, maybe even houses,
all over the world) I stayed in two this year. The first was gratis, 2
bedrooms, with loft, everything furnished, could sleep 9 or so (there are
rules), full kitchen, fire place, hot tub in the master bedroom, just off a
small ski slope, and within about 30 minutes of a major one. More
importantly, within about the same time, maybe less, to fishing a couple
good rivers in Colorado, maybe even in Winter. This one was near Granby.
Second timeshare.
Southwest Colorado. Hmmm. . . gratis also. July, this year. One bedroom
townhouse. All furnished, same as above. Could hold 5-6. King sized
bedroom, pull out bed in living room, plus wrap-around couch. (rules apply)
On a 27 hole golf course. Units are amongst the golf courses. We were on
the 7th hole of one of them. (428 yds from the blue tees)
But had to walk 25-30 yards or so to the shared indoor hot tub, with
windows, to see the golf stuff, heh . . .if you keep the windows open. (I
was told it cost about 50 dollars a night for the second one . . .may have
been a special deal)

If a member of one of the timeshare things, and can trade out, it may be
worth a look. . . definitely have to program out a year or more.