NC info request (on-topic)
 

ROFFians,

My plans for a trip to Graham County this June are taking shape.
With that in mind, I ask for some info from those of you who have fished
that area. (I know this is pretty early to be planning a June trip, but
we librarian-types love our research. :-)

After much Googling and consulting Lawrence's _The Fly Fisherman's
Guide to the Great Smoky Mountains National Park_, Jacobs' _Trout
Streams of Southern Appalachia_, and the Delorme for NC, I have
identified B*g Sn*wb*rd, N*l*nd, Abr*ms, H*z*l, F*rn*y, D**p and Sl*ck
Creeks as well as the West Prong of the Pigeon, the Little and possibly
some sections of the Oconaluftee (sp?) River as places worth
investigating. (I know ... I can't expect to do them all. :-)

I have also been tying with an eye towards the obvious flies for the
area (Adams, caddis, yellow and orange palmers, NC Wulffs,
yallerhammers, etc.).

So, now I need some advice from youse guys and gals. In addition to
the above creeks, are there any other must-fish spots that I am missing?
Any other "special" flies (dries preferred) for that area? (Oooops, I
forgot to mention yellow humpies above; but the ones I'm bringing will
have hook points. :-)

On the dangers of the park and environs: I've read of timber
rattlers, cottonmouths, bears and yellowjackets as the likely "pests" I
might run into. At that time of year (first week of June), which of the
above would you expect to be more active/likely to encounter? FWIW, I'm
familiar with rattlers, cottonmouths and yellowjackets. I've only seen
bears from a distance ... a *long* distance.

I've also read that a couple of the creeks are considered dangerous
for a fisherperson to explore alone (Abr*ms, in particular). Also, felt
soles are mentioned as a must for negotiating the streams. But felt
soles are a pain for hiking any distance (especially if the terrain is
rough). Would my studded Aquastealth boots be a viable option in that
area? I know I love them for hiking, but have had mixed results
depending on the composition of the stream bottom.

Also, at that time of year should I plan to wet-wade, or would
breathables be useful to carry?

On food and libations: As I understand it, Bryson City is probably
the closest place to go for adult beverages. Is it also the best place
for stocking up on groceries, or can I plan to do that in Robbinsville?
Are there any decent places to eat in Robbinsville (or in Bryson City,
for that matter)? (FWIW, I'll be renting a house with a full kitchen,
so when I'm not on the water, I'll be eating most of my meals at the
house.)

On general sightseeing: Supposedly the Cherohala Skyway is a must,
and I expect I'll want to hit the Blue Ridge Parkway for at least part
of a day (maybe towards Boone, as I've got an old friend living nearby).
How about the Foothills Parkway? Any other must-see spots?

Any general comments or bits of advice for someone who used to go to
the park as a kid but hasn't been back since the late seventies and has
never fly-fished the area? (FWIW, I'll take both a 3 and a 5 wt. with
me, but plan to fish the 3 wt. unless conditions require that I switch
to the bigger rig.)

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give, serious or not. :-)


Chuck Vance

"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
...
ROFFians,

My plans for a trip to Graham County this June are taking shape.

given your description of your plans, i can see that you are going to be
in the old north state for the entire month of june.

i don't have the time to type a response to your post just now, but i
will be happy to discuss your trip in detail on the phone this afternoon.
call me at 336-378-0616 if you get the urge.

yfitons
wayno

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:55:25 -0600, Conan the Librarian
wrote:

ROFFians,

My plans for a trip to Graham County this June are taking shape.
With that in mind, I ask for some info from those of you who have fished
that area. (I know this is pretty early to be planning a June trip, but
we librarian-types love our research. :-)

Don't bother with yallerhammers, but you should add small yellow and orange
stimulators. Those along with yellow humpies and parachute Adams will catch
fish. Small foam beetles work well, too, in brown or black.

You don't want to wear studded boots, the rocks you need to climb over are too
hard for the studs to get a grip and it will be like wearing rollerblades. In
June you should be able to wet wade everywhere.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff

Conan the Librarian wrote:
ROFFians,

My plans for a trip to Graham County this June are taking shape.
snip
Thanks in advance for any advice you can give, serious or not. :-)

First and foremost you should remember that Graham County is a
dry county. [shudder] I get the heebie jeebies just thinking
about it.

I don't think Forney is worth the hike, in fact the only *must
fish* stream in the Park is Hazel in my opinion. One not on your
list that fishes pretty well at that time is the Slickrock on the
NC-Tenn. border. Nice browns in there but it's a hike and a half.
And don't forget Santeetlah, they stock it but it's a gorgeous
place to fish.

Like Charlie said, waders are not necessary, just good wading
boots. Fly selection isn't all that critical, something gray,
something yellow, something orange and a handful of Royal Wulffs
should do.

As for pests none that you mentioned are worth worrying about
as much as the killer rhodos and the dry county.

I recommend at least one dinner at the Fryemont Inn in Bryson
City. It's a cool old place and the dinner is good and cheap.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Conan the Librarian wrote:

please, can someone repost conan's full query... my server delivered the
replies posted by wayno and charlie and forty, but not the original.

jeff

"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:aprMd.33088$EG1.3010@lakeread04...
please, can someone repost conan's full query... my server delivered
the
replies posted by wayno and charlie and forty, but not the original.

ROFFians,

My plans for a trip to Graham County this June are taking shape.
With that in mind, I ask for some info from those of you who have
fished
that area. (I know this is pretty early to be planning a June trip,
but
we librarian-types love our research. :-)

After much Googling and consulting Lawrence's _The Fly Fisherman's
Guide to the Great Smoky Mountains National Park_, Jacobs' _Trout
Streams of Southern Appalachia_, and the Delorme for NC, I have
identified B*g Sn*wb*rd, N*l*nd, Abr*ms, H*z*l, F*rn*y, D**p and Sl*ck
Creeks as well as the West Prong of the Pigeon, the Little and
possibly
some sections of the Oconaluftee (sp?) River as places worth
investigating. (I know ... I can't expect to do them all. :-)

I have also been tying with an eye towards the obvious flies for
the
area (Adams, caddis, yellow and orange palmers, NC Wulffs,
yallerhammers, etc.).

So, now I need some advice from youse guys and gals. In addition
to
the above creeks, are there any other must-fish spots that I am
missing?
Any other "special" flies (dries preferred) for that area? (Oooops,
I
forgot to mention yellow humpies above; but the ones I'm bringing will
have hook points. :-)

On the dangers of the park and environs: I've read of timber
rattlers, cottonmouths, bears and yellowjackets as the likely "pests"
I
might run into. At that time of year (first week of June), which of
the
above would you expect to be more active/likely to encounter? FWIW,
I'm
familiar with rattlers, cottonmouths and yellowjackets. I've only
seen
bears from a distance ... a *long* distance.

I've also read that a couple of the creeks are considered
dangerous
for a fisherperson to explore alone (Abr*ms, in particular). Also,
felt
soles are mentioned as a must for negotiating the streams. But felt
soles are a pain for hiking any distance (especially if the terrain is
rough). Would my studded Aquastealth boots be a viable option in that
area? I know I love them for hiking, but have had mixed results
depending on the composition of the stream bottom.

Also, at that time of year should I plan to wet-wade, or would
breathables be useful to carry?

On food and libations: As I understand it, Bryson City is
probably
the closest place to go for adult beverages. Is it also the best
place
for stocking up on groceries, or can I plan to do that in
Robbinsville?
Are there any decent places to eat in Robbinsville (or in Bryson
City,
for that matter)? (FWIW, I'll be renting a house with a full kitchen,
so when I'm not on the water, I'll be eating most of my meals at the
house.)

On general sightseeing: Supposedly the Cherohala Skyway is a
must,
and I expect I'll want to hit the Blue Ridge Parkway for at least part
of a day (maybe towards Boone, as I've got an old friend living
nearby).
How about the Foothills Parkway? Any other must-see spots?

Any general comments or bits of advice for someone who used to go
to
the park as a kid but hasn't been back since the late seventies and
has
never fly-fished the area? (FWIW, I'll take both a 3 and a 5 wt. with
me, but plan to fish the 3 wt. unless conditions require that I switch
to the bigger rig.)

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give, serious or not.
:-)


Chuck Vance

"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
...
ROFFians,

My plans for a trip to Graham County this June are taking shape. 8
Thanks in advance for any advice you can give, serious or not. :-)


Chuck Vance

hey chuck,

focus on santeelah and snowbird. both are excellent streams and are easy to
get to. the park streams are more effort and the illini budsotten fellah is
correct.... forn is a worthless stream... a godforsakend, snakeinfested
debacle of moral unrighteousness and totally devoid of any piscatorial
life...

as far as flies go.... the ones you mentioned are fine along with a madamx
and a ...

http://wilsoncreekoutfitters.com/hotflies.html

if by chance you make it eastward, stop on by the shop to say hi and i'll
point ya in a good direction to some waters in this area....

waldo
www.ezflyfish.com

"ezflyfisher" wrote in message
...
hey chuck,

focus on santeelah and snowbird. both are excellent streams and are easy
to
get to. the park streams are more effort and the illini budsotten fellah
is
correct.... forn is a worthless stream... a godforsakend, snakeinfested
debacle of moral unrighteousness and totally devoid of any piscatorial
life...

as far as flies go.... the ones you mentioned are fine along with a madamx
and a ...

http://wilsoncreekoutfitters.com/hotflies.html

if by chance you make it eastward, stop on by the shop to say hi and i'll
point ya in a good direction to some waters in this area....

waldo
www.ezflyfish.com


He's ALIVE!!! He's ALIVE!!!!

Damn, Waldo, whereinthehell ya been?

Danl

Wayne Harrison wrote:

given your description of your plans, i can see that you are going to be
in the old north state for the entire month of june.

It looks like it, doesn't it? Let's just say I like to have a lot
of options. :-)

i don't have the time to type a response to your post just now, but i
will be happy to discuss your trip in detail on the phone this afternoon.
call me at 336-378-0616 if you get the urge.

Thanks for the generous offer. I may be unavailable this p.m., but
would another time be OK?


Chuck Vance

Charlie Choc wrote:

You don't want to wear studded boots, the rocks you need to climb over are too
hard for the studs to get a grip and it will be like wearing rollerblades. In
June you should be able to wet wade everywhere.

But will plain felts be OK for hiking? I know that mine (Hodgemans)
offer less than ideal traction when hiking.


Chuck Vance (who's starting to wonder if he should have bought
Chotas to start with)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 11:09:21 -0600, Conan the Librarian
wrote:

Charlie Choc wrote:

You don't want to wear studded boots, the rocks you need to climb over are too
hard for the studs to get a grip and it will be like wearing rollerblades. In
June you should be able to wet wade everywhere.

But will plain felts be OK for hiking? I know that mine (Hodgemans)
offer less than ideal traction when hiking.

Plain felts should be OK for that, or you can just wear sneakers and carry
your wading shoes. The biggest problem I have with felts and hiking is in the
fall when everything is covered with wet leaves.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff

He's ALIVE!!! He's ALIVE!!!!

Damn, Waldo, whereinthehell ya been?

Danl


hey danl,

i been fishin and drinkin and whor... ummm..... dreamin down here in ole nor
cackalackey.

and lookin fer da caps key... howzat work?

seriously..... just working way too much and fishing very little. when marie
and i moved down here to morganton last fall, i made a decision not to
install a 'puter in the house, hence my lack of roff adventures. there are
times i've wanted the puter handy at night to come here and play..... but
it's nice to just relax and read some good books.

see ya,

waldo

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

First and foremost you should remember that Graham County is a
dry county. [shudder] I get the heebie jeebies just thinking
about it.

It's not a big deal to me. I lived in Nashville, I can remember
when they first were trying to pass liquor-by-the-drink laws there. And
the little town I live in here doesn't sell booze in its stores.

I just make sure to stock up when I'm in civilization. :-)

I don't think Forney is worth the hike, in fact the only *must
fish* stream in the Park is Hazel in my opinion. One not on your
list that fishes pretty well at that time is the Slickrock on the
NC-Tenn. border. Nice browns in there but it's a hike and a half.
And don't forget Santeetlah, they stock it but it's a gorgeous
place to fish.

Thanks for the suggestions. I had intended to include Slickrock,
but had a brain fart and typed "Sl*ck" instead. But if *you* say it's a
hike and a half, I'll probably pass. :-)

I'd like to do Hazel, but I'd need some reassurance that the guys
who ferry you across will return the same day to pick you up.

Like Charlie said, waders are not necessary, just good wading
boots. Fly selection isn't all that critical, something gray,
something yellow, something orange and a handful of Royal Wulffs
should do.

As for pests none that you mentioned are worth worrying about
as much as the killer rhodos and the dry county.

The dry country I can deal with, the rhodos I'm not so sure. It's
been a while since I tackled rhodo hells. Used to hike and camp (even
though it wasn't legal) in the Fall Creek Falls park in Tennessee, and
depending on the water level of the creek, you were at the mercy of the
rhodos.

And I wasn't even trying to flyfish in those days. Yikes.

I recommend at least one dinner at the Fryemont Inn in Bryson
City. It's a cool old place and the dinner is good and cheap.

Thanks, now that you mention it, I remember seeing you write about
that spot from one of the NC claves (or was it an anti-clave?). I'll
make plans to check it out. Is it a BYOB place?


Chuck Vance

ezflyfisher wrote:

hey chuck,

focus on santeelah and snowbird. both are excellent streams and are easy to
get to. the park streams are more effort and the illini budsotten fellah is
correct.... forn is a worthless stream... a godforsakend, snakeinfested
debacle of moral unrighteousness and totally devoid of any piscatorial
life...

Wow, it's that good, huh? :-)

as far as flies go.... the ones you mentioned are fine along with a madamx
and a ...

http://wilsoncreekoutfitters.com/hotflies.html

Thanks for the link, waldo.

if by chance you make it eastward, stop on by the shop to say hi and i'll
point ya in a good direction to some waters in this area....

Very generous of you. If time permits, I'm hoping to head towards
Boone. If I do, I'll definitely make plans to come and visit.


Chuck Vance

Conan the Librarian wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I recommend at least one dinner at the Fryemont Inn in Bryson
City. It's a cool old place and the dinner is good and cheap.

Thanks, now that you mention it, I remember seeing you write about
that spot from one of the NC claves (or was it an anti-clave?). I'll
make plans to check it out. Is it a BYOB place?

No, they have a pedestrian little wine list and a nice bar
off the dining room for an after dinner drink. Bryson City
is in Swain County, much more civilized than Graham County. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 11:19:03 -0600, Conan the Librarian
wrote:

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

I recommend at least one dinner at the Fryemont Inn in Bryson
City. It's a cool old place and the dinner is good and cheap.

Thanks, now that you mention it, I remember seeing you write about
that spot from one of the NC claves (or was it an anti-clave?). I'll
make plans to check it out. Is it a BYOB place?

At one of the NC claves I mentioned I liked the food there and 40 went to some
length on how pedestrian he thought the place was. I do like the food there,
and the place has a bar. FWIW
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff

On 2/3/05 12:13 PM, in article ,
"ezflyfisher" wrote:


He's ALIVE!!! He's ALIVE!!!!

Damn, Waldo, whereinthehell ya been?

Danl


hey danl,

i been fishin and drinkin and whor... ummm..... dreamin down here in ole nor
cackalackey.

and lookin fer da caps key... howzat work?

seriously..... just working way too much and fishing very little. when marie
and i moved down here to morganton last fall, i made a decision not to
install a 'puter in the house, hence my lack of roff adventures. there are
times i've wanted the puter handy at night to come here and play..... but
it's nice to just relax and read some good books.

Well, my friend, this book thing will only lead to ruin and damnation, I can
tell you. Late nights, early morning, bleary eyes, over long sentences when
selling hook-less yallerhammers... Not good. Not good at all.


Bill

thanks wolfgang...


After much Googling and consulting Lawrence's _The Fly Fisherman's
Guide to the Great Smoky Mountains National Park_, Jacobs' _Trout
Streams of Southern Appalachia_, and the Delorme for NC, I have
identified B*g Sn*wb*rd, N*l*nd, Abr*ms, H*z*l, F*rn*y, D**p and Sl*ck
Creeks as well as the West Prong of the Pigeon, the Little and
possibly
some sections of the Oconaluftee (sp?) River as places worth
investigating. (I know ... I can't expect to do them all. :-)

um...how long will you be in the area? a month may not be enough time. g

snowbird is an "everyman's" stream. it's stocked from its mouth at the
lake all the way up to the "junction" where the big snowbird backcountry
trail begins. there are some big browns and rainbows in the stocked
areas. upstream of the junction are wild fish. easy hike for the most
part. you should fish a section of the upstream areas at least once.
walk the trail for 45 minutes. it's important to plan your entry and
exit as the upstream banks are steep in places, and the rhodo
unforgiving. but, if you work a bit at finding a less traveled entry
and exit...or you are willing to fish a long day and beyond the easy
exits, you'll be rewarded. above the first falls are brookies. the
stream from mouth to upper falls is around 20 miles of fishable water.
little snowbird (it joins big snowbird at the turn off the paved road)
also holds nice fish.

big santeetlah above the stewart cabin (go at least one mile) is a
stream of big boulders and scaleable waterfalls. in its upper-middle
reaches, it may well be the most beautiful stream in nc imo. it has
pocket water, long runs, riffles, deep pools, and some big fish (in nc
terms). i know they stock the lower portion, but i'm not sure about the
upper section. it's an unpredictable stream...feast or famine.

little santeetlah (go to joyce kilmer nat'l forest entry and trail) is
full of little rainbows. it's fun to fish once you get away from the
trail. i took rachel there one day in october and fished above the
first bridge so she could walk along with me.

in the park, on the nc side, eagle, hazel, forney, noland, and deep
creeks are the primary streams for fishing. noland and deep creek are
close to bryson city. you can drive to a parking area, then hike as
much as you choose on a trail that parallels the streams. i've avoided
deep creek because it's a popular camping, day-hiking area - even has
inner tube squealers in the lower stretch. i'm told it gets better the
farther upstream you walk. noland is an easy walk and holds lots of
typical nc small rainbows. it's a pretty place, and oddly enough, it's
rarely crowded. you can dayhike to forney from the noland parking lot
by the tunnel - the end of the road to nowhere. i've not done the hike,
but i have boated across the lake to its mouth.

eagle and hazel are on the west side (near fontana dam). you can hike
to eagle from the dam...but, the boat ride there and to hazel are more
pleasant. in june, there will be crowds on the weekends, but probably
nothing like you're accustomed to out west. still, i'd recommend a
weekday visit. fontana marina has water taxi service, and they'll put
you in with some others to make the cost worthwhile. you can rent a
boat with a 9.9 outboard for about $50 for the day. hazel is the
biggest watershed of the streams and holds the most promise for a large
wild trout on a dry fly in nc.

i've not fished abrams...it's in tennessee by cades cove.


I have also been tying with an eye towards the obvious flies for
the
area (Adams, caddis, yellow and orange palmers, NC Wulffs,
yallerhammers, etc.).

in june, parachute adams, sulphurs, elk hair caddis, stimulators,
hoppers, humpies, royal wulff, and trudes work. there's really not much
that won't work...even madame x's and tarantulas. stealth and placement
are key. screw the yallerhammer myth...it's a nice story, but the fly
isn't equal to the fables, imo. try what you feel most confident and
comfortable fishing... nc trout are starving, opportunistic feeders, but
scare easily. once spooked, they'll have lockjaw for a while. there
aren't many fish per mile, so don't stay in one place too long. hiking
up the stream is part of the joy of stalking nc trout. kinda like quail
hunting...


So, now I need some advice from youse guys and gals. In addition
to
the above creeks, are there any other must-fish spots that I am
missing?

you've got enough to keep you busy. there are others, and you'll
definitely miss them... g


On the dangers of the park and environs: I've read of timber
rattlers, cottonmouths, bears and yellowjackets as the likely "pests"
I
might run into. At that time of year (first week of June), which of
the
above would you expect to be more active/likely to encounter? FWIW,
I'm
familiar with rattlers, cottonmouths and yellowjackets. I've only
seen
bears from a distance ... a *long* distance.

I've also read that a couple of the creeks are considered
dangerous
for a fisherperson to explore alone (Abr*ms, in particular). Also,
felt
soles are mentioned as a must for negotiating the streams. But felt
soles are a pain for hiking any distance (especially if the terrain is
rough). Would my studded Aquastealth boots be a viable option in that
area? I know I love them for hiking, but have had mixed results
depending on the composition of the stream bottom.

felt soles...forget the aquastealths. but, if you choose to use the
aquastealths, will you allow me to acquire a bit of life insurance on
your life? normal vigilance and precaution, and you'll be fine. never
had a problem with snakes, bears, or boars. have been stung by
yellowjackets, but i stepped on their home.


Also, at that time of year should I plan to wet-wade, or would
breathables be useful to carry?

wet wade...but, it's always nice to have waders along when you want to
stay dry or bumpass down a ridge bank.

On food and libations: As I understand it, Bryson City is
probably
the closest place to go for adult beverages. Is it also the best
place
for stocking up on groceries, or can I plan to do that in
Robbinsville?

ingles in robbinsville is a better than decent full-sized grocery store
in robbinsville. alcohol can be found in andrews as well as in bryson
city.

Are there any decent places to eat in Robbinsville

sort of... there's a mexican restaurant, a chinese restaurant (buffet
style), and a new place called the magnolia cafe...all located at or
near the main intersection. also a pizza place, and there's a great
little coffee, pastry/sandwich shop called rosie's up on top of main
street. none of the restaurants are "gourmet", but each is pleasant
enough and offers filling food that tastes good enough after a long day.
prices are inexpensive. over on the south side of santeetlah, at the
beginning of the cherohala skyway is the snowbird lodge...gourmet
dining, gourmet pricing.

bryson city is a tourist venue for the great smoky mountain railway, the
GSMNP, and nantahala outdoor center. fryemont inn offers decent food and
drinks, and there are other typical restaurants in the area. it's about
30-40 minutes from robbinsville to bryson city.

(or in Bryson
City,
for that matter)? (FWIW, I'll be renting a house with a full kitchen,
so when I'm not on the water, I'll be eating most of my meals at the
house.)

where is the place located?


On general sightseeing: Supposedly the Cherohala Skyway is a
must,
and I expect I'll want to hit the Blue Ridge Parkway for at least part
of a day (maybe towards Boone, as I've got an old friend living
nearby).

Boone is about 3.5 hours northwest of robbinsville. it's a full day
round trip. if you do it, i'd suggest getting on the BRP around
asheville...it runs a fairly decent, albeit slower course, up to boone,
passing by mt. mitchell and grandfather mountain.

How about the Foothills Parkway?

huh?? that's gotta be over in tennessee somewhere... about the only
reason to leave graham county to see anything in tennessee would be to
fish some of the good border waters on that side of the smokies, or if
dolly was gonna bare her breasts and tickets were cheap... g

Any other must-see spots?

fontana dam, tail-of-the-dragon, cades cove, asheville's biltmore house,
mount mitchell... but, are you goin fishin or what? g.

jeff

Conan the Librarian wrote:

But will plain felts be OK for hiking? I know that mine (Hodgemans)
offer less than ideal traction when hiking.

Hiking will wear out felt soles pretty quickly. I usually carry my
wading boots to where I'll fish if I have to hike more than a mile or two.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Charlie Choc wrote:
At one of the NC claves I mentioned I liked the food there and 40 went to some
length on how pedestrian he thought the place was. I do like the food there,
and the place has a bar. FWIW

Pedestrian doesn't preclude good and cheap. The fare *is* pedestrian,
and it's also good and cheap. I think the Fryemont is the best dinner
value in Bryson City. Pick it up and put it in Urbana and I wouldn't
eat there. I might have a cheap cognac (that's the only kind they
have ;-) at their bar after dinner though. The building is cool and
worth a visit in its own right.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 18:09:41 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Pick it up and put it in Urbana and I wouldn't
eat there.

Me either.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in
message .. .
Conan the Librarian wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I recommend at least one dinner at the Fryemont Inn in Bryson
City. It's a cool old place and the dinner is good and cheap.

Thanks, now that you mention it, I remember seeing you write
about
that spot from one of the NC claves (or was it an anti-clave?).
I'll
make plans to check it out. Is it a BYOB place?

No, they have a pedestrian little wine list and a nice bar
off the dining room for an after dinner drink. Bryson City
is in Swain County, much more civilized than Graham County. ;-)

Fortunato, it would appear, still doesn't know amontillado from
sherry.

Wolfgang

"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
...
ROFFians,



On general sightseeing: Supposedly the Cherohala Skyway is a must,
and I expect I'll want to hit the Blue Ridge Parkway for at least part of
a day (maybe towards Boone, as I've got an old friend living nearby).

LONG RESPONSE:

you will find many great spots on the parkway, (be sure to get a parkway
guide http://www.blueridgeparkway.org/ )some for viewing, some hiking, and
the parkway has some georgous streams. just look for any spot on the side
of the road that looks like there is enough room to pull over onto, and i
will just about guarantee you will find a stream to rival those in any
enchanted forest you have seen in a story book. some of the streams on the
parkway are stocked, but wild trout can also be found there. also, if you
are going to spend any time in boone with your friend, you should fish
boone's fork. if your friend doesn't know about it- e-mail me or op, we'll
fill ya in.

*do not* waste your time in blowing rock ( tourist trap) unless it is for
the purpose of eating a good meal. mellow mushroom has the best pizza, the
speckled trout is a very nice place for a fish meal, and if you want a truly
small town experience that you will never forget, go to sonny's restaurant.
they have great breakfast and lunch is good there as well. look for robbie
( the cook) and tell tell him jennifer sent you there. if you go in for
breakfast you must have robbie make you some "chicks in a basket" - great
meal, and be sure to try some livermush- don't dare leave without having
some ( i recommend hot sauce on it). robbie will hook you up nicely - after
you have had it-and only after- ask him to show the newspaper article he has
about it. that's all i'm gonna say about that G i promise they will
make you very welcome. they have been written up in southern living
magazine, and have won a couple of awards. it's just a little hole in the
wall diner- next to sunset tees on the main drag- you could miss em if your
not looking, but i would make it a point to get in there if i were you.
keep in mind that they close at 2:00 p.m.

if you like old time music you *must* check out the todd general store on a
friday night. it is about 20 minutes outside of boone. they have a regular
friday night pickin session, and they serve some food.

boots- you must have felt soles to fish in these north carolina streams. i
do a lot of hiking in mine, and don't usually have problems unless i am
hiking where there are a lot of pine needles- and that does constitute a lot
of our trails. but if you are really concerned, maybe you should try a pair
of convertible shoes/boots. i know orvis makes a convertible wading shoe,
and korkers has a convertible boot, and i'm pretty sure i have seen some in
cabela's catalogue. you probably already know all that though- being more
experienced than i ;-).

as for waders, by june is warm enough to wet wade. don't worry about the
snakes and stuff. i wet wade all the time in warm weather- bare legs- and
have not gotten any more than some scratches and bruises from fallling. so
far, i have not had any close encounters with any creatures. mostly you
will scare them off with your noise. just watch the rocks for copperheads.
they like to sun themselves on them. there are these huge dark brown/black
leggy spiders that hang out on the laurel bushes out this way (boone), so if
you fish boone's fork, just be aware of that when you go to grab branches to
stabalize yourself with. there are a lot of them out there. i know nothing
about these spiders except that they are huge and gross. i would hate to
wrap my hand around one. i'd rather encounter a snake.

if you are lucky, you will see a bear while you are out there in the more
western part of the state. while fishing out there with some fellow
roffians in october we had the pleasure of watching a bear walk the trail
directly across the stream from the trail we were hiking. it was a gift.
you will love it out there. it is georgous. hey jeff, what's the name of
that defunct lumber mill out there by where we fished? be sure to look up
some history on it, and the area in general, before you go, the area boasts
a rich history. be sure to learn a little bit about the snowbird cherokees,
( if you're not already familiar with them- likely you are). l

have fun. enjoy our wonderful state.

my .02 worth-
snakefiddler






How about the Foothills Parkway? Any other must-see spots?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give, serious or not. :-)


Chuck Vance

Conan the Librarian wrote:snipMy plans for a trip to Graham County this June
are taking shape.
With that in mind, I ask for some info from those of you who have fished
that area. (I know this is pretty early to be planning a June trip, but
we librarian-types love our research. :-)

I suspect that anyone who has lived in Texas as long as you have won't have any
problems coexisting with any critters you run into in North Carolina as alon as
you don't lean against any poison ivy or oak growing on the trees. Your 3 and 5
weights will do just fine unless you plan on switching a bear with a fly rod. I
have never seen a bear while in that part of the country. Just a few snakes
that slithered away.

If you get as far west as townsend, Tenn. there is a great fly shop there
called Little River Outfitters and I always try to stop there and look at their
chicken feathers, Course you should plan on driving up to Morgantown to see
Unckle Waldo's fly shop and drop a few bucks there as well. Careful as he
always seems to have some books that want to come home with me. Could be that
his wife is a good influence o him.

I thought of Jeff Miller this morning as I watched Kinky Friedman announcing
from The Alamo that he will run for governor of Texas and that Billy Joe
Shaver will be his poet laureate. It was also good to hear Ray Benson and
Asleep At The Wheel singing Miles and Miles of Texas. Finaly a political
campaign we can enjoy.

If anyone knows more about fishing Graham County that Jeff, Wayno, And Pamlico
Jim, I don't know who it would be.

Big Dale

Big Dale wrote:



I thought of Jeff Miller this morning as I watched Kinky Friedman announcing
from The Alamo that he will run for governor of Texas and that Billy Joe
Shaver will be his poet laureate. It was also good to hear Ray Benson and
Asleep At The Wheel singing Miles and Miles of Texas. Finaly a political
campaign we can enjoy.

i watched it as well on imus, smiled and thought of you immediately. in
fact, somewhere above or below this thread, earlier today, i replied to
one of your posts, mentioning the kinkster. he was great today, wasn't
he! it's gonna be fun for sure...i wish i had a front row seat, but i
hope you'll keep us informed of how he's doing. if ever there was an
independent candidate in politics, he's it.

jeff

"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
...

Everyone else has given ya good info on the streams and such, so I will only
mention the snakes. You say that you are familiar with rattlers? Well then
you know that the timber rattler ain't quite as aggressive as their cousins.
They don't warn ya of their presence. They won't rattle until you have
stepped on them and by that time you've been bitten.

Though I have never encountered any timber rattlers where I fish, I have
been in a lab with about 50 vipers, locked securely in their glass homes! I
don't know the Doctors title, but she seemed quite familiar with all the
snakes. As soon as we entered the locker, the western diamondbacks went to
rattlin' and never stopped the whole time I was in the room. The timber
rattlers, on the other hand, never rattled once. The timber rattlers, if I
recall correctly, are considerably larger than their western cousins, TICBW.

When crossing logs and rocks, step up on the log/rock and then over and away
from. Don't just step over logs or rocks, as a snake could be on the other
side beneath whatever you stepped over.

Just my 0.02

Mark

"Mark H. Bowen" wrote

When crossing logs and rocks, step up on the log/rock and then over and
away from. Don't just step over logs or rocks, as a snake could be on the
other side beneath whatever you stepped over.


and, of course, the damned copperheads don't even *have* rattles.

when next i see you, i will tell you an interesting tale of a
confrontation pj and i had with a serious copperhead up on wilson creek.

yfitp
wayno

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
. com...

"Mark H. Bowen" wrote

When crossing logs and rocks, step up on the log/rock and then over and
away from. Don't just step over logs or rocks, as a snake could be on
the other side beneath whatever you stepped over.


and, of course, the damned copperheads don't even *have* rattles.

when next i see you, i will tell you an interesting tale of a
confrontation pj and i had with a serious copperhead up on wilson creek.

yfitp
wayno

I haven't the faintest idea of which you speak? Copperheads are our
friends, or at least they were during the War Between The States.

Mark

"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:qsxMd.59$2p.45@lakeread08...
Big Dale wrote:



I thought of Jeff Miller this morning as I watched Kinky Friedman
announcing
from The Alamo that he will run for governor of Texas and that Billy Joe
Shaver will be his poet laureate. It was also good to hear Ray Benson
and
Asleep At The Wheel singing Miles and Miles of Texas. Finaly a political
campaign we can enjoy.

i watched it as well on imus, smiled and thought of you immediately. in
fact, somewhere above or below this thread, earlier today, i replied to
one of your posts, mentioning the kinkster. he was great today, wasn't
he! it's gonna be fun for sure...i wish i had a front row seat, but i hope
you'll keep us informed of how he's doing. if ever there was an
independent candidate in politics, he's it.

Despite a rather rocky start with Ronbo, I think the recent trend toward
"professional" actors in American politics is a refreshing change.
Jesse....Ahnowd.....Kinky......ya just gotta love it! :)

Wolfgang

Wayne Harrison wrote:

when next i see you, i will tell you an interesting tale of a
confrontation pj and i had with a serious copperhead up on wilson creek.

I don't know how serious it was but the copperhead I saw up
on Wilson Creek was *huge*. That thing was big around as my
wrist and lying right next to the trail. As I recall Steve
Barnard took a picture of it.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
. com...
Wayne Harrison wrote:

when next i see you, i will tell you an interesting tale of a
confrontation pj and i had with a serious copperhead up on wilson creek.

I don't know how serious it was but the copperhead I saw up
on Wilson Creek was *huge*. That thing was big around as my
wrist and lying right next to the trail. As I recall Steve
Barnard took a picture of it.

Hm.....

I remember seeing a snake one day when a bunch of us were fishing together
in North Carolina in 2000......I walked right past it.......and then someone
said something like "Hey, look at this snake!"......and someone said , "It's
a copperhead!"......and I went back and looked at it closely......and
someone took a picture of it......and posted it.......but I thought that was
on another stream. Anyway, this one was just as big......a bit less than an
inch in diameter.

Wolfgang

Wolfgang wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
I don't know how serious it was but the copperhead I saw up
on Wilson Creek was *huge*. That thing was big around as my
wrist and lying right next to the trail. As I recall Steve
Barnard took a picture of it.

Hm.....

I remember seeing a snake one day when a bunch of us were fishing together
in North Carolina in 2000......I walked right past it.......and then someone
said something like "Hey, look at this snake!"......and someone said , "It's
a copperhead!"......and I went back and looked at it closely......and
someone took a picture of it......and posted it.......but I thought that was
on another stream. Anyway, this one was just as big......a bit less than an
inch in diameter.

You're right. I just dug through the "archives" to find a
picture I took at the trail head of you and Barnard and
Asadi and the trail marker clearly says Harper.

Anyway, big snake.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
. com...
Wolfgang wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
...That thing was big around as my
wrist...

...this one was just as big......a bit less than an inch in diameter.

You're right....

Yeah, I thought so.

Wolfgang
it takes a big ma.......um.......well, you know. :)

You might add St*igi*t C***k, the gorge is nice. You can buy booze at the
second to last store on you right before you enter the Park leaving
Gatlinburg.

"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
...
ROFFians,

My plans for a trip to Graham County this June are taking shape.
With that in mind, I ask for some info from those of you who have fished
that area. (I know this is pretty early to be planning a June trip, but
we librarian-types love our research. :-)

After much Googling and consulting Lawrence's _The Fly Fisherman's
Guide to the Great Smoky Mountains National Park_, Jacobs' _Trout
Streams of Southern Appalachia_, and the Delorme for NC, I have
identified B*g Sn*wb*rd, N*l*nd, Abr*ms, H*z*l, F*rn*y, D**p and Sl*ck
Creeks as well as the West Prong of the Pigeon, the Little and possibly
some sections of the Oconaluftee (sp?) River as places worth
investigating. (I know ... I can't expect to do them all. :-)

I have also been tying with an eye towards the obvious flies for the
area (Adams, caddis, yellow and orange palmers, NC Wulffs,
yallerhammers, etc.).

So, now I need some advice from youse guys and gals. In addition to
the above creeks, are there any other must-fish spots that I am missing?
Any other "special" flies (dries preferred) for that area? (Oooops, I
forgot to mention yellow humpies above; but the ones I'm bringing will
have hook points. :-)

On the dangers of the park and environs: I've read of timber
rattlers, cottonmouths, bears and yellowjackets as the likely "pests" I
might run into. At that time of year (first week of June), which of the
above would you expect to be more active/likely to encounter? FWIW, I'm
familiar with rattlers, cottonmouths and yellowjackets. I've only seen
bears from a distance ... a *long* distance.

I've also read that a couple of the creeks are considered dangerous
for a fisherperson to explore alone (Abr*ms, in particular). Also, felt
soles are mentioned as a must for negotiating the streams. But felt
soles are a pain for hiking any distance (especially if the terrain is
rough). Would my studded Aquastealth boots be a viable option in that
area? I know I love them for hiking, but have had mixed results
depending on the composition of the stream bottom.

Also, at that time of year should I plan to wet-wade, or would
breathables be useful to carry?

On food and libations: As I understand it, Bryson City is probably
the closest place to go for adult beverages. Is it also the best place
for stocking up on groceries, or can I plan to do that in Robbinsville?
Are there any decent places to eat in Robbinsville (or in Bryson City,
for that matter)? (FWIW, I'll be renting a house with a full kitchen,
so when I'm not on the water, I'll be eating most of my meals at the
house.)

On general sightseeing: Supposedly the Cherohala Skyway is a must,
and I expect I'll want to hit the Blue Ridge Parkway for at least part
of a day (maybe towards Boone, as I've got an old friend living nearby).
How about the Foothills Parkway? Any other must-see spots?

Any general comments or bits of advice for someone who used to go to
the park as a kid but hasn't been back since the late seventies and has
never fly-fished the area? (FWIW, I'll take both a 3 and a 5 wt. with
me, but plan to fish the 3 wt. unless conditions require that I switch
to the bigger rig.)

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give, serious or not. :-)


Chuck Vance

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

I don't know how serious it was but the copperhead I saw up
on Wilson Creek was *huge*. That thing was big around as my
wrist and lying right next to the trail. As I recall Steve
Barnard took a picture of it.

Yes, I did take a photo. I still have it around somewhere. The snake was
a tiny little thing -- maybe two feet long, about average or a little
below. Good spotting, though. People tend to exaggerate the size of
snakes they see -- especially poisonous ones.

Copperheads are only mildly poisonous, and not particularly dangerous.
Fatalities are nearly unknown. A bite will hurt a bunch, though.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
...
ROFFians,

My plans for a trip to Graham County this June are taking shape. With
that in mind, I ask for some info from those of you who have fished that
area. (I know this is pretty early to be planning a June trip, but we
librarian-types love our research. :-)

[snip]

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give, serious or not. :-)

Sounds like you have a lot of stuff on your plate. In spite of all the
anti-claves and the seismic shift of North Caroliner's on Roff, you're
limiting yourself to a few ok streams (Santeelah and Hazel are better than
OK of course)

Big Dale hit the nail on the fly shop in Townsend but the Little River going
into the Park is not to be missed. And if you're not adverse to buying a
tennessee fishing license, the tellico wma has an amazing amount of water.
Abrahms is not as bad as you've heard, i've hiked and fished it and even
with my bad knee/hip, smoking impaired lungs, and weight I did not have much
in the way of trouble. It's not the remote destination everyone thinks of
but Deep Creek running into Bryson City is a great place to fish not too far
upstream from the parking lot and it too has been known to have hatch
activity.

Screw Boone and Blowing rock you've come all the way from Texas, your friend
can come down to you grin, decent enough places but Asheville and
Waynesville offer great food (plus the 2nd best fly shop in North Carolina
in Hunter Banks).

June can be warm so morning and evening in those small streams might be best
time but the French Broad and Davidson will offer you some *traditional* dry
fly fishing and depending upon how "late" Spring is, if you're early in
June, the remote possibility of Green Drakes on the Davidson.

There's a patent attorney in Asheville who guided out of Hunter Banks if you
want to take that route for a day or two. His name is Bruce Harang, he knows
the area like no one else i've seen, and is a great fisherman.

Food in the appalachians means only one thing, low country style bbq,
compared to that imitation stuff they serve in texas, it's food heaven.

Flies as other have said are not too important unless you hit the techincal
waters or the tailwaters. Adams, humpys, PT, san juan worms, elk hare
caddis, and some kind of caddis pupae will serve you well. Again as Dale
stated, you're in texas, the appalachian snakes are pussies next to them
texas serpents.

"Wayne Knight"
..
Abrahms is not as bad as you've heard, i've hiked and fished it and even
with my bad knee/hip, smoking impaired lungs, and weight I did not have
much
in the way of trouble. It's not the remote destination everyone thinks of
but Deep Creek running into Bryson City is a great place to fish not too
far
upstream from the parking lot and it too has been known to have hatch
activity.


You want to pay attention on Abrams, I call them shelves but I'm certain
there's a specific geological name for those stairstep rocks that go form
one foot to whatever in depth all of a sudden when you're lost in thought
.....

john (that creek way down in will bust your ass in the dark....get a trail
map for sure)

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 16:27:14 -0500, "snakefiddler"
wrote:

(heavily snipped)

meal, and be sure to try some livermush-

Do I even want to know? Well, I suppose. What _is_ livermush?

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)

(I know this is pretty early to be planning a June trip, but
we librarian-types love our research. :-)

I can't resist commenting that, as a librarian, shouldn't you be going
back into the stacks, to the SH687 area, and find the answers in your
books, instead of asking other people?

(Hope you realize I'm just gently pulling your leg.)

vince

Wayne Knight wrote:snipAgain as Dale
stated, you're in texas, the appalachian snakes are pussies next to them
texas serpents.


I have not fished North Carolina near enough, but the only snake that I have
seen there was when Tom Brown and I were fishing behind the church during
Waldo's Spring Fling and we saw a copperhead. It just slithered away as usual.
They don't particularly bother me, but this was one of the few that I saw
before I smelled it. About the only time they bother me is when I a find one
about eye level in a tree where they are sunning themselves.

Big Dale