spinnerbait wire R bend style vs split ring?
 

Wondering what the differences/benefits/etc are on spinnerbait wires between
the "R" bend vs the circled loop that looks abit like a split ring. I can't
seem to find much info, so thought I'd float this topic out

Mike

Mike, I went back into my archives to retrieve a following reply I posted
here on the spinnerbait line tie subject long ago. Unfortunately, I cannot
find the post previous to mine by Rich Zaleski, which revealed where the
future of line ties may be going. Not wanting to risk misquoting the master,
I am going to leave it to Rich to find his original or re-state it as he
sees fit.

Back then, we said:

"Jim, first of all this question is not off topic in any way. Asking &
answering questions about any fishing product is a very legitimate part of
why this group exists.

Now about those closed, twisted loop eyes on spinnerbait frames... I put
them on the original Secret Weapons when I put them on the market. I like
them because I always use Duolock snaps, even with spinnerbaits.
Unfortunately, 98% of the buying public hated them; they both told me so and
"voted with their feet." My decision then was easy. I changed production to
the "R-Bend" type line tie like everybody else. I did not forsake my beloved
snaps, though. I cut small plastic collars using the cheap plastic tubing
available in any pet store, and slip them over the top of the "R". This
creates a closed loop, it works, and I use them 100% of the time.

A further observation would be to question why you are still using wire
leaders on freshwater "toothy critters"? Today's braids, and even heavy
mono's, pretty well negate the need for wire leaders, IMO. Again, I see Rich
Zaleski's remarks above as being right on target.

We will be offering large, dedicated Muskie & sal****er SW's in the not too
distant future. At that time we will be revisiting the question of the line
tie configuration.

--
Bob Rickard
(AKA Dr. Spinnerbait)
www.secretweaponlures.com
--------------------------=x O')))

"Jim Laumann" wrote in message
...
Bob

Had the oppurtunity to hit the lake on Thur afternoon, and we were
chasing toothy critters (Muskie). I started off using a 1/2 oz Fire
Tiger SW w/ a leader due to the chance of getting bit off. (I went
small, while the guy I was fishing with was throwing large baits.)

No strikes - but what I did find is that I was having to re-set the
clip of the leader into the "U" of the SW just about each time that I
retrieved the bait. Often, my retrieve brought the lure back with the
clip of the leader tangled in the blades. I realize you intended the
SW's as a bass bait, but they are nice for Pike and Muskie as well.

So my question is: Have you considered adding a "closed loop" style
frame to your lures?

Thanks

Jim"

--
Bob Rickard
(AKA Dr. Spinnerbait)
www.secretweaponlures.com
--------------------------=x O')))

.................................................. ...........................
..........


"MikeD" wrote in message
om...
Wondering what the differences/benefits/etc are on spinnerbait wires
between
the "R" bend vs the circled loop that looks abit like a split ring. I
can't
seem to find much info, so thought I'd float this topic out

Mike

I've been considering how I might modify the R bend in my spinnerbaits to
allow the use of snaps. Wire ties have been one thought. Hadn't thought of
using rubber tubing. This is why I like ROFB. I think the tubing would work
better and more consistently than tieing off with wire. Petsmart here I
come.
--
Da Chief,
All outgoing mailed scanned by
Symantec Anti-virus

Da Chief wrote:

I've been considering how I might modify the R bend in my spinnerbaits to
allow the use of snaps. Wire ties have been one thought. Hadn't thought of
using rubber tubing. This is why I like ROFB. I think the tubing would work
better and more consistently than tieing off with wire. Petsmart here I
come.

Watch out where you spend your money - I think Petsmart supports animal
rights groups. Should be able to get the tubing at a hardware or hobby
store.

Or, go to your local hobby shop and buy some fuel line tubing for gas
remotes.


"Da Chief" wrote in message
...
I've been considering how I might modify the R bend in my spinnerbaits to
allow the use of snaps. Wire ties have been one thought. Hadn't thought of
using rubber tubing. This is why I like ROFB. I think the tubing would
work
better and more consistently than tieing off with wire. Petsmart here I
come.
--
Da Chief,
All outgoing mailed scanned by
Symantec Anti-virus

"Da Chief" wrote in message
...
I've been considering how I might modify the R bend in my spinnerbaits to
allow the use of snaps. Wire ties have been one thought. Hadn't thought of
using rubber tubing. This is why I like ROFB. I think the tubing would
work
better and more consistently than tieing off with wire. Petsmart here I
come.

I'm gonna try the rubber tubing this year. I know it will work well, as I've
cut some tubing and it fits over the bend just fine. But our season is
closed for quite awhile and the ice is a foot thick anyways. Something I've
done in the past is to crimp the bend closed with a pliers. That has worked
out OK, but maybe the SB gurus here will tell me if that was a lousy idea or
not.

I have had good luck using the smallest o-rings I could find to keep
the snap on the spinnerbait. I have also used the crimp with pliers
method with good results but I always wondered if it hurt the vibration
of the blades.

Mike

Time for me to weigh in on this topic, I guess.


There are three types of bends used in overhead or safety pin style
spinnerbait wires.

Open or "R" bend.
Twisted loop.
Coiled loop.

I tend to prefer the R bend, since I would never even consider using a
snap or a wire leader on a spinnerbait. The purpose of the R bend is to
allow the knot to pivot all the way around when the line wraps around
behind the wires on a cast, rather than jamming into the twist. With
mono, the line usually gets badly nicked where it wedges between the
wires of a twisted loop. But with braided and fused superlines, it
doesn't seem to create a weak spot there at all.

The twisted loop allows a spinnerbait to be built on a lighter wire
frame, and allows it to be used with a snap (UGH!). But when tying
direct, if using mono or fluoro, it's hell on the line when the line
gets wrapped behind the wire, which is inevitable in using a
spinnerbait, because of the way they tumble in 'flight'. Like I said --
it doesn't matter as much with braids.

Finally, there's the coiled loop. In the early days of spinnerbaits,
they were pretty common, but they lost popularity, and these days, the
only place you encounter them anymore are on little specialty baits (EG,
the H&H spinner) and in spinnerbaits designed for musky fishing. The
latter use tells us that at least some anglers thing they are stronger.

Anyway, which you use is a matter of personal preference, unless the
thing directing you toward a closed loop is the desire to use a snap.
There is no advantage to using a snap on a spinnerbait. If you're
putting a spinnerbait into the places you should be putting it, the line
should be getting beat up pretty badly and you should be retying pretty
regularly anyway.

I like most of what Ricjh says, except the implication that using a snap
means anglers do not reitie regularly. I love to use a snap. Several time
in the last year when using crank naits the only reason I used a snap was so
that I could change baits. That does not mean in anyway shape or form that
I didn't retie after battling a good fish or fightig it out of a tree top.
What it allowed me to do was catch more fish. One three diffrent occassions
I had a situation where I would catch a fish or two, and the remaining fish
int hat location would chase the bait, but not hit it. Changing the bait
resulted in one or two more strikes. I one spot I caught fifteen fish
within about thirty feet of each other by being able to change baits quickly
when they quit biting. Now I am sure the clip detractors will say there is
no reason I couldn't have simply tied on another bait or had two or three
rods rigged up, and they are partly right. I tie a modified clinch
(Trilene) knot as quick as most folks can tie a square knot, but that time
psent retieing just to change biats would have been time not spent fishing.
It could have resulted in having my boat out of position as I was
concentrating on my line instead of where I was at. For those that run into
circumstances like this where they have chasers instead of biters being able
to quickly change baits might result in more bites. It is not about being
too lazy to tie on a new bait. Its about being able to react quickly to
make minor adjustments whent he fish aren't killing the bait you are
throwing. Its one reason I probably don't cast spinner baits as often as I
cast crank baits.

--
** Public Fishing and Boating Forums
** www.YumaBassMan.com


"RichZ" wrote in message
...

Time for me to weigh in on this topic, I guess.


There are three types of bends used in overhead or safety pin style
spinnerbait wires.

Open or "R" bend.
Twisted loop.
Coiled loop.

I tend to prefer the R bend, since I would never even consider using a
snap or a wire leader on a spinnerbait. The purpose of the R bend is to
allow the knot to pivot all the way around when the line wraps around
behind the wires on a cast, rather than jamming into the twist. With
mono, the line usually gets badly nicked where it wedges between the
wires of a twisted loop. But with braided and fused superlines, it
doesn't seem to create a weak spot there at all.

The twisted loop allows a spinnerbait to be built on a lighter wire
frame, and allows it to be used with a snap (UGH!). But when tying
direct, if using mono or fluoro, it's hell on the line when the line
gets wrapped behind the wire, which is inevitable in using a
spinnerbait, because of the way they tumble in 'flight'. Like I said --
it doesn't matter as much with braids.

Finally, there's the coiled loop. In the early days of spinnerbaits,
they were pretty common, but they lost popularity, and these days, the
only place you encounter them anymore are on little specialty baits (EG,
the H&H spinner) and in spinnerbaits designed for musky fishing. The
latter use tells us that at least some anglers thing they are stronger.

Anyway, which you use is a matter of personal preference, unless the
thing directing you toward a closed loop is the desire to use a snap.
There is no advantage to using a snap on a spinnerbait. If you're
putting a spinnerbait into the places you should be putting it, the line
should be getting beat up pretty badly and you should be retying pretty
regularly anyway.

I haven't spent much time chasing Northerns and muskies ( toothy critters)
until the last four Summers... but I HAVE been bitten off, with braid, by
them.

Maybe I'm just not lucky enough, but a wire leader with a snap; a
spinnerbait with added plastic aquarium tubing ( Wal-mart) and I can have
the best of both of my worlds. Why, if the wire leaders do not seem to stop
any hits....would I NOT want them on? Quick lure changes; no knots to tie on
a rocking boat in the fog and dark of early/late fishing; no cut-offs
NONE-NONE-NONE due to a muskie or N.Pikes teeth...

Seems simple enough for me.
RichG TX

p.s. I do not use wire leaders for sal****er bay fish or on lakes where the
toothy critters do not live.
--
RichG manager, Carolina Skiff Owners Group on MSN
http://groups.msn.com/CarolinaSkiffOwners
..

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
I like most of what Ricjh says, except the implication that using a snap
means anglers do not reitie regularly. I love to use a snap. Several
time
in the last year when using crank naits the only reason I used a snap was
so
that I could change baits. That does not mean in anyway shape or form
that
I didn't retie after battling a good fish or fightig it out of a tree top.
What it allowed me to do was catch more fish. One three diffrent
occassions
I had a situation where I would catch a fish or two, and the remaining
fish
int hat location would chase the bait, but not hit it. Changing the bait
resulted in one or two more strikes. I one spot I caught fifteen fish
within about thirty feet of each other by being able to change baits
quickly
when they quit biting. Now I am sure the clip detractors will say there
is
no reason I couldn't have simply tied on another bait or had two or three
rods rigged up, and they are partly right. I tie a modified clinch
(Trilene) knot as quick as most folks can tie a square knot, but that time
psent retieing just to change biats would have been time not spent
fishing.
It could have resulted in having my boat out of position as I was
concentrating on my line instead of where I was at. For those that run
into
circumstances like this where they have chasers instead of biters being
able
to quickly change baits might result in more bites. It is not about being
too lazy to tie on a new bait. Its about being able to react quickly to
make minor adjustments whent he fish aren't killing the bait you are
throwing. Its one reason I probably don't cast spinner baits as often as
I
cast crank baits.

--
** Public Fishing and Boating Forums
** www.YumaBassMan.com


"RichZ" wrote in message
...

Time for me to weigh in on this topic, I guess.


There are three types of bends used in overhead or safety pin style
spinnerbait wires.

Open or "R" bend.
Twisted loop.
Coiled loop.

I tend to prefer the R bend, since I would never even consider using a
snap or a wire leader on a spinnerbait. The purpose of the R bend is to
allow the knot to pivot all the way around when the line wraps around
behind the wires on a cast, rather than jamming into the twist. With
mono, the line usually gets badly nicked where it wedges between the
wires of a twisted loop. But with braided and fused superlines, it
doesn't seem to create a weak spot there at all.

The twisted loop allows a spinnerbait to be built on a lighter wire
frame, and allows it to be used with a snap (UGH!). But when tying
direct, if using mono or fluoro, it's hell on the line when the line
gets wrapped behind the wire, which is inevitable in using a
spinnerbait, because of the way they tumble in 'flight'. Like I said --
it doesn't matter as much with braids.

Finally, there's the coiled loop. In the early days of spinnerbaits,
they were pretty common, but they lost popularity, and these days, the
only place you encounter them anymore are on little specialty baits (EG,
the H&H spinner) and in spinnerbaits designed for musky fishing. The
latter use tells us that at least some anglers thing they are stronger.

Anyway, which you use is a matter of personal preference, unless the
thing directing you toward a closed loop is the desire to use a snap.
There is no advantage to using a snap on a spinnerbait. If you're
putting a spinnerbait into the places you should be putting it, the line
should be getting beat up pretty badly and you should be retying pretty
regularly anyway.

RichG wrote:
I haven't spent much time chasing Northerns and muskies ( toothy critters)
until the last four Summers... but I HAVE been bitten off, with braid, by
them.


2 of the places I throw spinnerbaits most frequently are chock full of
pike -- the CT River and Champlain, and I NEVER use a wire leader with a
spinnerbait. My kid & I catch hundreds of pike a season on spinnerbaits
just from Champlain. If I have had 3 spinnerbaits bitten off by pike in
30 years, it's a lot. And I know I've had exactly one bitten off since I
started using Fireline for spinnerbaits.

I'll readily admit that the "bite offs" have been on plastics bumped on the
bottom, rather than on spinnerbaits...but..I see no reason to change from a
wire leader if I'm catching fish. I've been using Power-Pro.I like the snap
on the end. I like the swivel for the spoons that I throw. I won't take a
chance on missing a 30/35 inch NPike or Muskie ...RG

--
RichG manager, Carolina Skiff Owners Group on MSN
http://groups.msn.com/CarolinaSkiffOwners

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
I like most of what Ricjh says, except the implication that using a snap
means anglers do not reitie regularly.

Agreed. I use snaps and am checking the line frequently, and retie whenever
there's a hint of fraying or weakening.

What about a small rubberband? Something like an orthodontist hands out to
their patients.

That would work, but for $2.00 you can buy all of the aquarium tubing at
Wal-Mart that you will need of the rest of your life. RG
--
RichG manager, Carolina Skiff Owners Group on MSN
http://groups.msn.com/CarolinaSkiffOwners
..

"Bill H." wrote in message
...
What about a small rubberband? Something like an orthodontist hands out to
their patients.

I bought some of the wally world aquarium tubing tonight. Before leaving I
checked a few sb's in sporting goods. They all have different size r bends
and the tubing looked like it would be too small on some brands/models. I
think I'll check for smaller tubing at the local home supply store. Then
again it might have to be a trip to the automotive supply store. Either way
I think this idea is really going to work.
--
Da Chief,
All outgoing mailed scanned by
Symantec Anti-virus
"RichG" wrote in message
m...
That would work, but for $2.00 you can buy all of the aquarium tubing at
Wal-Mart that you will need of the rest of your life. RG
--
RichG manager, Carolina Skiff Owners Group on MSN
http://groups.msn.com/CarolinaSkiffOwners
.

"Bill H." wrote in message
...
What about a small rubberband? Something like an orthodontist hands out
to
their patients.

Bill H. wrote:

What about a small rubberband? Something like an orthodontist hands out to
their patients.


This has been an intersting discussion. I posted what I think are the
pros and cons of twist vs R bend ties on spinnerbaits in response to a
question on my site a few months back.

I don't pay any attention to the type bend when I get a spinnerbait, but
I tie direct, have not used a clip since one came open on me during a
tournament about 25 years ago. I had cast under a bush and the bait got
hung. I shook it loose and when it hit the water a 3 pound bass grabbed
it. When I set the hook I thought I had broken my line, but when I
reeled in the clip was open. I don't want anything extra between me and
the bass that I don't have to have there.

Yesterday I opened a new spinnerbait from Bite A Bait, a lure company in
Jacksonville, Fla. They had sent me some baits to try out. This
spinnerbait had an R bend and on it was a small rubber band, already
installed. Looked like a tiny clear O ring. I used it some, but since
I tie direct can't see any difference with it. It would help if you use
a clip or swivel, I guess.

Get fuel line from your local hobby shop.


"Da Chief" wrote in message
...
I bought some of the wally world aquarium tubing tonight. Before leaving I
checked a few sb's in sporting goods. They all have different size r bends
and the tubing looked like it would be too small on some brands/models. I
think I'll check for smaller tubing at the local home supply store. Then
again it might have to be a trip to the automotive supply store. Either
way
I think this idea is really going to work.
--
Da Chief,
All outgoing mailed scanned by
Symantec Anti-virus
"RichG" wrote in message
m...
That would work, but for $2.00 you can buy all of the aquarium tubing at
Wal-Mart that you will need of the rest of your life. RG
--
RichG manager, Carolina Skiff Owners Group on MSN
http://groups.msn.com/CarolinaSkiffOwners
.

"Bill H." wrote in message
...
What about a small rubberband? Something like an orthodontist hands out
to
their patients.

Thanks guys, all of this is great info.