Question on old bamboo rod
 

ROFFians,

A co-worker of SWMBO's brought an old rod of his for me to take a
look at. He is getting back into flyfishing, and wondered if it would
be worth refurbishing to use, or if it has some value as an "antique".

It's a Heddon Deluxe #T80, 8', 6-wt. The finish is crazed in
several spots and two guides are off (although he has one of them).
Other than that, everything seems to be in good order (ferrules look
fine, no noticeable set to the rod, and the rest of the windings look
solid). He also has the rod bag and tube.

I told him that it would be worthwhile to get it in working order
for fishing the rivers and streams around here for bass. (It's the same
philosophy I use for old handtools. Get them in working shape and use
them; leave the "antiques" for the collectors.) But after doing a bit
of research, it looks like the rod is worth more than I thought.

So what is my question? I dunno ... maybe I'm just looking for
ROFFians to affirm that it's worth putting some money into it to be able
to use it. Maybe I'm wondering if he should really just try to sell it
and use the money to buy another rod. Maybe I'm trying to stir up a
'boo vs. graphite discussion. Maybe I'm just bored.


Chuck Vance

"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
...
ROFFians,

A co-worker of SWMBO's brought an old rod of his for me to take a
look at. He is getting back into flyfishing, and wondered if it would
be worth refurbishing to use, or if it has some value as an "antique".
SNIP

Such rods can bring a lot of money. What such things are "worth" is a moot
point.

Probably best to sell it. In which case, no "do-it-yourself" refurbishing
should be done. This may appreciably lower the value of such a rod.

TL
MC

Mike Connor wrote:

Such rods can bring a lot of money. What such things are "worth" is a moot
point.

Point taken.

Probably best to sell it. In which case, no "do-it-yourself" refurbishing
should be done. This may appreciably lower the value of such a rod.

It's the same with my other hobby, woodworking. I use old handtools
for much of my work, and the things that are sometimes necessary to get
them into working order would seriously diminish their value as
"collectibles". However, their value to me as user tools can't be
measured so easily.


Chuck Vance

Conan The Librarian wrote:

So what is my question? I dunno ... maybe I'm just looking for
ROFFians to affirm that it's worth putting some money into it to be
able
to use it. Maybe I'm wondering if he should really just try to sell
it
and use the money to buy another rod. Maybe I'm trying to stir up a
'boo vs. graphite discussion. Maybe I'm just bored.

Since you asked, Heddons have some value to collectors in some cases.
Mint to excellent condition rods can fetch up to $500 but I've never
seen one sell for more than that. The Heddon Museum is a few blocks
from my office if your friend wants an address to see if they have an
interest.

If I had the rod, I would get it *fixed* and fish it.

Conan The Librarian wrote:
Mike Connor wrote:
Probably best to sell it. In which case, no "do-it-yourself"
refurbishing
should be done. This may appreciably lower the value of such a rod.

It's the same with my other hobby, woodworking. I use old handtools
for much of my work, and the things that are sometimes necessary to get
them into working order would seriously diminish their value as
"collectibles". However, their value to me as user tools can't be
measured so easily.

Unless that rod has sentimental value to your friend as a fishing
tool, I agree with Mike. With the money it would bring he could get
a fly rod more suitable for bass fishing than an 8' piece of 'boo.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:15:25 +0100, "Mike Connor"
wrote:


"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
...
ROFFians,

A co-worker of SWMBO's brought an old rod of his for me to take a
look at. He is getting back into flyfishing, and wondered if it would
be worth refurbishing to use, or if it has some value as an "antique".
SNIP

Such rods can bring a lot of money. What such things are "worth" is a moot
point.

It would depend on one's definition of "a lot of money," at least in as
far as the US market is concerned. In very good condition and complete,
similar rods can be seen fairly regularly on offer for under $500.00USD,
and often in the $300.00 range. Based on Chuck's description, I'd
guesstimate that if someone like Codella had a similar rod in similar
condition, it would be in his "handyman's special" section on offer at
well under $200.00. If it were a shorter, lighter rod, it would be
worth more, and this is generally true of all makes and conditions.

OK, that said, a few questions for Chuck: is this thing marked "6 wt."
or is it marked something like "HGH" in the old letter-diameter method,
how many total pieces, and what about any decals and inking on the rod?

Probably best to sell it. In which case, no "do-it-yourself" refurbishing
should be done. This may appreciably lower the value of such a rod.

I disagree. If the refurb work is reasonably done, it will not really
affect the value of such a rod enough to worry about. If this were an
historically-significant Payne 6-footer, I'd say leave it alone, but an
8-foot midweight Heddon in need of work isn't all that "collectable"
anyway, nor does it really have appreciable monetary value to lower
appreciably - IOW, unless you try to fix it with a rusty nailfile,
shipping twine, and Krylon, it'll be worth about the same fixed up as
untouched, and perhaps more if the work is done well and the rod is
"ready to fish." Most who would buy it would buy it to fix up and fish.

TC,
R

On 25 Mar 2005 05:56:51 -0800, "Wayne Knight"
wrote:


Conan The Librarian wrote:

So what is my question? I dunno ... maybe I'm just looking for
ROFFians to affirm that it's worth putting some money into it to be
able
to use it. Maybe I'm wondering if he should really just try to sell
it
and use the money to buy another rod. Maybe I'm trying to stir up a
'boo vs. graphite discussion. Maybe I'm just bored.

Since you asked, Heddons have some value to collectors in some cases.
Mint to excellent condition rods can fetch up to $500 but I've never
seen one sell for more than that.

FWIW, there have been mint-condition, special/unique specimens that have
brought over $1000.00USD (auction sales), but as you say, $500.00 is
about top of the market, on average, for these generally, and even
$500.00 is pushing things.

The Heddon Museum is a few blocks
from my office if your friend wants an address to see if they have an
interest.

And there is at least one Heddon book, as well.

If I had the rod, I would get it *fixed* and fish it.

Yep, and I take it you mean "*fixed*" as in fixed up to fish rather than
truly "*restored*," and if so, I agree. This sounds like a
$150-200.00-ish rod, and appropriate refurb (but heck, you can still get
the Heddon thread) isn't going to do anything but make it worth about
the same or a little more, so I'd suggest that he fix it up, use it, and
if he didn't like it, then sell it. Of course, the risk would be that
some damage would occur to it, but that would be true of any rod.

TC,
R

Wayne Knight wrote:

Since you asked, Heddons have some value to collectors in some cases.
Mint to excellent condition rods can fetch up to $500 but I've never
seen one sell for more than that. The Heddon Museum is a few blocks
from my office if your friend wants an address to see if they have an
interest.

That would be great, thanks.

If I had the rod, I would get it *fixed* and fish it.

That was my advice to him as well until I saw that they were worth
more than I anticipated. Anyhow, I'll give him plenty of options.


Chuck Vance

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:32:20 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote:

wrote:

OK, that said, a few questions for Chuck: is this thing marked "6 wt."
or is it marked something like "HGH" in the old letter-diameter method,
how many total pieces, and what about any decals and inking on the rod?

It's a 3-piece with no decals, handlettered "#T80 - 8 - D or 6" and
"Deluxe". There may have been more markings at one time, but the finish
is spotty in that area.

I would guess, based solely on that info, that it has already been
worked on, at least as far as the lettering. If it is marked "D or 6,"
that would mean that it had to be marked, factory or otherwise, in or
after the early 60s (about 1962-3) or later, and a (VERY) brief look at
a couple of books/articles says that Heddon quit production on these in
the late 50s. If you really want absolutes, you'll need to do some
research, but again I'm _guessing_ that no such production rods were
factory-marked with line _weights_ - all were diameter scale, but ???

Also, when you say 3-piece, is it a 3/2, for 4 total pieces, or is there
just the 3 sections with no extra tip?

Lastly, if it originally had decals, the missing decals would normally
affect the value (slightly, IMO). It may seem silly on such rods, but
decals seem to be important to collectors, even with these.

TC,
R

wrote:


Yep, and I take it you mean "*fixed*" as in fixed up to fish rather
than
truly "*restored*," and if so, I agree. This sounds like a
$150-200.00-ish rod, and appropriate refurb (but heck, you can still
get
the Heddon thread) isn't going to do anything but make it worth about
the same or a little more, so I'd suggest that he fix it up, use it,
and
if he didn't like it, then sell it. Of course, the risk would be
that
some damage would occur to it, but that would be true of any rod.


Those old heddon rods were almost indestructible, kind of like the
pickups they make in the 60's. I seriously doubt that any old texas
bucket mouth is going to hurt that thing.

Conan The Librarian wrote:

That would be great, thanks.

Heddon Museum
414 West St.
Dowagiac MI 49047
269-782-4068

On 25 Mar 2005 06:59:34 -0800, "Wayne Knight"
wrote:


wrote:


Yep, and I take it you mean "*fixed*" as in fixed up to fish rather
than
truly "*restored*," and if so, I agree. This sounds like a
$150-200.00-ish rod, and appropriate refurb (but heck, you can still
get
the Heddon thread) isn't going to do anything but make it worth about
the same or a little more, so I'd suggest that he fix it up, use it,
and
if he didn't like it, then sell it. Of course, the risk would be
that
some damage would occur to it, but that would be true of any rod.


Those old heddon rods were almost indestructible, kind of like the
pickups they make in the 60's. I seriously doubt that any old texas
bucket mouth is going to hurt that thing.

True enough (Hey! That brings to mind the name of the Heddon book: _The
Rod with the Fighting Heart_) but I meant something on the order of a
car door or someone, er, checking the speed and force of a ceiling fan.
One could fill the time waiting on warranty work on such a rod with
snipe hunting, I suppose... Actually, that dovetails into the other
thread the value of a warranty; if the company ain't there, the best
warranty in the world isn't and wasn't worth much.

TC,
R

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:18:12 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote:

wrote:

I would guess, based solely on that info, that it has already been
worked on, at least as far as the lettering. If it is marked "D or 6,"
that would mean that it had to be marked, factory or otherwise, in or
after the early 60s (about 1962-3) or later, and a (VERY) brief look at
a couple of books/articles says that Heddon quit production on these in
the late 50s. If you really want absolutes, you'll need to do some
research, but again I'm _guessing_ that no such production rods were
factory-marked with line _weights_ - all were diameter scale, but ???

Interesting bit of info, thanks. And if it has already been worked
on, am I to assume that too would affect its "collectability" (using
that term loosely, given its condition)?

IMO, yes, it would, and it would also mean that more appropriate,
well-done work would do no further harm, either to monetary value or
"collectibility." But that said, to be sure, you'd need to know that it
didn't come that way from the factory - I have doubts, not certainties.

Also, when you say 3-piece, is it a 3/2, for 4 total pieces, or is there
just the 3 sections with no extra tip?

Just three, no extra tip.

This would absolutely affect the value _IF_ it came as a 3/2. That is a
certainty.

Lastly, if it originally had decals, the missing decals would normally
affect the value (slightly, IMO). It may seem silly on such rods, but
decals seem to be important to collectors, even with these.

No surprise there. It's the same for old handtools, even
run-of-the-mill Stanley planes.

Thanks for looking into this further for me. With your info and
Wayne getting the address of the Heddon museum (thanks, Wayne), I can
give my friend some decent options to consider.

You're welcome, but keep in mind that my info was general and "IIRC,"
not absolute "here's the facts, Chuck," and as such, it'd probably be
worth at least a little further research on your part. You might wish
to Google up "_The Rod with the Fighting Spirit_ and 'Heddon'" (IIRC,
that's the title) and see if the book or its author, as well as the
Heddon Museum, can be of any further help. You might also see if you
can get ahold of Len Codella (www.codella.com).

TC,
R

rdean wrote:
It's a 3-piece with no decals, handlettered "#T80 - 8 - D or 6" and
"Deluxe". There may have been more markings at one time, but the finish
is spotty in that area.

I would guess, based solely on that info, that it has already been
worked on, at least as far as the lettering.

What he said. Heddon had a "Deluxe" model, but the model number was 60,
not 80. I don't believe Heddon ever did make a Model 80.
Just to verify if it really is a Deluxe, does it have a butternut reel
seat and light brown wraps with dark brown tipping?

Charlie Wilson wrote:

What he said. Heddon had a "Deluxe" model, but the model number was 60,
not 80. I don't believe Heddon ever did make a Model 80.
Just to verify if it really is a Deluxe, does it have a butternut reel
seat and light brown wraps with dark brown tipping?

The wraps are exactly as you describe, but I couldn't tell you if
the reel seat is butternut or not. (As far as I know, I've never seen
50 year-old butternut. :-) The wood has a slight orange/red patina to
it, and it has almost a burl figure to it.


Chuck Vance

wrote:

IMO, yes, it would, and it would also mean that more appropriate,
well-done work would do no further harm, either to monetary value or
"collectibility." But that said, to be sure, you'd need to know that it
didn't come that way from the factory - I have doubts, not certainties.

I understand, and I'm not expecting certainties. I just want to be
able to give him enough info so he can make a reasonably-educated
decision on a course of action.

This would absolutely affect the value _IF_ it came as a 3/2. That is a
certainty.

FWIW, the bag doesn't look like it was designed to hold a 3/2. Of
course, it could be that the bag isn't original.

You're welcome, but keep in mind that my info was general and "IIRC,"
not absolute "here's the facts, Chuck," and as such, it'd probably be
worth at least a little further research on your part. You might wish
to Google up "_The Rod with the Fighting Spirit_ and 'Heddon'" (IIRC,
that's the title) and see if the book or its author, as well as the
Heddon Museum, can be of any further help. You might also see if you
can get ahold of Len Codella (www.codella.com).

Thanks, and don't worry -- I'm not expecting the final word on this
from you or anyone on ROFF. (What, do you think I'm crazy? ;-) I was
just hoping to get pointed in the right direction.


Chuck Vance

"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
...
Charlie Wilson wrote:

What he said. Heddon had a "Deluxe" model, but the model number was
60, not 80. I don't believe Heddon ever did make a Model 80.
Just to verify if it really is a Deluxe, does it have a butternut
reel seat and light brown wraps with dark brown tipping?

The wraps are exactly as you describe, but I couldn't tell you if the
reel seat is butternut or not. (As far as I know, I've never seen 50
year-old butternut. :-) The wood has a slight orange/red patina to it,
and it has almost a burl figure to it.

It may be a Deluxe; IIRC, Heddon used those wrap colors on four
different models. Describe the grip (shape + material), winding check and
hook keeper (if any). Your rod has apparently been refinished, but if it has
a walnut grip, it is almost certainly a Deluxe. If you can, send me close up
photos of the rod and I will do my best to figure out what you have. Given
your earlier description of the lettering, it could be just about anything,
amateurishly converted to imitate a high end Heddon.