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flyfishing from the canoe
I just stuck the word "flyfishing" in there so it would be on-topic.
;-) Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two seats at front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove the center gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for solo ventures, or will that screw up the structural integrity of the canoe? -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
"Tim J." wrote in message ... I just stuck the word "flyfishing" in there so it would be on-topic. ;-) Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two seats at front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove the center gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for solo ventures, or will that screw up the structural integrity of the canoe? Depends on how good you are with tools. The fact that you plan to remove the "center gunwale" rather then the thwart that is presumably there bodes ill. :) Wolfgang |
On 4/8/05 10:55 AM, in article , "Wolfgang"
wrote: that is presumably there bodes ill. :) No need to go all poetic on the poor guy... :-) B |
Wolfgang wrote:
"Tim J." wrote in message ... I just stuck the word "flyfishing" in there so it would be on-topic. ;-) Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two seats at front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove the center gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for solo ventures, or will that screw up the structural integrity of the canoe? Depends on how good you are with tools. The fact that you plan to remove the "center gunwale" rather then the thwart that is presumably there bodes ill. :) Okay - "the wood thingy that looks like a yoke." Being good with tools and knowing the lingo are two different things, bud! ;-) I sincerely hope I don't drill through the floor of the canoe after making that statement. -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
"William Claspy" wrote in message ... On 4/8/05 10:55 AM, in article , "Wolfgang" wrote: that is presumably there bodes ill. :) No need to go all poetic on the poor guy... I'm fixin' to go Medieval on his ass. Whattya think......Bede?......Malory?......Langland? :) Wolfgang |
Tim J. wrote:
Wolfgang wrote: "Tim J." wrote in message ... I just stuck the word "flyfishing" in there so it would be on-topic. ;-) Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two seats at front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove the center gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for solo ventures, or will that screw up the structural integrity of the canoe? Depends on how good you are with tools. The fact that you plan to remove the "center gunwale" rather then the thwart that is presumably there bodes ill. :) Okay - "the wood thingy that looks like a yoke." Being good with tools and knowing the lingo are two different things, bud! ;-) It seems I have some reading to do, and it ain't English poetry: http://www.paddling.net/guidelines/showArticle.html?73 Did I mention it's my first canoe? -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
"Wolfgang" wrote in message ... "Tim J." wrote in message ... I just stuck the word "flyfishing" in there so it would be on-topic. ;-) Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two seats at front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove the center gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for solo ventures, or will that screw up the structural integrity of the canoe? Depends on how good you are with tools. The fact that you plan to remove the "center gunwale" rather then the thwart that is presumably there bodes ill. :) If you're really good with tools, a fly tyer with spare materials hanging around and a computer geek to boot, try this: http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/...5/badger.shtml -- Frank Reid Euthenize to respond |
"Tim J." wrote in message ... Wolfgang wrote: "Tim J." wrote in message ... I just stuck the word "flyfishing" in there so it would be on-topic. ;-) Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two seats at front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove the center gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for solo ventures, or will that screw up the structural integrity of the canoe? Depends on how good you are with tools. The fact that you plan to remove the "center gunwale" rather then the thwart that is presumably there bodes ill. :) Okay - "the wood thingy that looks like a yoke." Being good with tools and knowing the lingo are two different things, bud! ;-) Well, as long as you know a water letter outer hole making thingy from a sixteen ounce claw adjuster, you should be o.k. I sincerely hope I don't drill through the floor of the canoe after making that statement. See, that's what I mean. You've got to have some means of letting out excess water! :) An extra seat in the center of the canoe is nothing more than a highly specialized thwart. As long as it's built and installed properly it can't harm the structural integrity of the boat. Done properly, it will even strengthen it. Wolfgang |
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:50:02 -0400, "Tim J."
wrote: I just stuck the word "flyfishing" in there so it would be on-topic. ;-) Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two seats at front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove the center gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for solo ventures, or will that screw up the structural integrity of the canoe? Have you tried paddling the canoe 'backwards' while sitting 'backwards' in the front seat? That will get you closer to the middle of the canoe without having to modify it. -- Charlie... http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries http://www.chocphoto.com/roff |
Charlie Choc wrote:
"Tim J." wrote: I just stuck the word "flyfishing" in there so it would be on-topic. ;-) Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two seats at front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove the center gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for solo ventures, or will that screw up the structural integrity of the canoe? Have you tried paddling the canoe 'backwards' while sitting 'backwards' in the front seat? That will get you closer to the middle of the canoe without having to modify it. That's exactly what I do in my sixteen footer, FWIW. For a look at a three seater go to http://www.wenonah.com/ and find the Solo Plus. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Charlie Choc wrote:
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:50:02 -0400, "Tim J." wrote: I just stuck the word "flyfishing" in there so it would be on-topic. ;-) Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two seats at front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove the center gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for solo ventures, or will that screw up the structural integrity of the canoe? Have you tried paddling the canoe 'backwards' while sitting 'backwards' in the front seat? That will get you closer to the middle of the canoe without having to modify it. Yeah, I'm doing that now but I'm still too far back. I've been carrying a five-gallon plastic contaier to give the other side some ballast and that works okay, but it's a pain to go through that and have to carry around extra stuff. -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Frank Reid wrote:
http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/...5/badger.shtml I don't know from badgers. I'm more interested in Hoary Hedgehog (released today). -- Stan Gula http://gula.org/roffswaps |
Hey, a thread with my name on it!
Yeah, you can replace the center THWART with a seat. But as others have noted, you actualy don't want to be in the exact center of the canoe when you paddle, as the boat will tend to pivot rather than move forward when you stroke. Unfortunately, the center thwart DOES want to be in the exact center, so replacing it with a seat is at cross-purposes. For this reason, the middle thwart seat in 3-seat canoes is actually for a third person, not a solo paddler. Even traditional kayakers sit a little behind the midpoint. What most folks do is sit backwards in the bow seat and paddle the canoe the other way. If you find that you cannot get close enough to the center for your liking (and you are unwilling to admit that its a style problem, not a design flaw), then try replacing the second thwart with a butt board. The second thwart is the one behind the bow paddler...it lies about halfway between the middle thwart and the bow. In some boats its in front of the stern paddler, but not commonly. A butt board is a piece of 1x3 that is on hangers so that it sits a bit lower than a thwart, and it doubles as a seat and a thwart. It is angled at 30deg, so when you are kneeling and putting your butt cheeks on it, it doesn't dig into the back of your legs. If it is placed right, its actually VERY comfortable. You can put some padding down for your knees, wrap some ensolite around it, and spend all day on it with no problems, as most of your weight is on your butt, no your knees. I've seen folks put a flat part on the top for an actual seat, which is cozy. I'll see if I can find some pics of what I'm talking about. I have a rudimentary one on my BlueHole that I regularly used to spend a week or more 10-12 hour days on with no problem. I even removed the other seat from my boat to better place the butt board. Or you can just learn to paddle solo the way most solo boaters do. :-) --riverman |
riverman wrote:
Hey, a thread with my name on it! Yeah, you can replace the center THWART with a seat. But as others have noted, you actualy don't want to be in the exact center of the canoe when you paddle, as the boat will tend to pivot rather than move forward when you stroke. Maybe my problem is that I bought a cheaper off-brand canoe and the bow seat is too far forward. It seemed a lot farther forward that I thought it should be when I got it based on others I'd used, and some folks (including me) have complained about it when in two-paddler mode. If that's the case, would it be a problem to remove the bow seat, get a slightly wider seat, cut it to fit, and mount it about 8 inches to a foot back? Paddling on my knees isn't an option, even with the butt support. I don't bend well anyway, and my knees have been known to give me trouble. Since they feel pretty good right now, I don't want to risk it. It could cut in to my wading trips. :) -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
riverman wrote:
Hey, a thread with my name on it! Yeah, you can replace the center THWART with a seat. But as others have noted, you actualy don't want to be in the exact center of the canoe when you paddle, as the boat will tend to pivot rather than move forward when you stroke. Unfortunately, the center thwart DOES want to be in the exact center, so replacing it with a seat is at cross-purposes. For this reason, the middle thwart seat in 3-seat canoes is actually for a third person, not a solo paddler. Even traditional kayakers sit a little behind the midpoint. Well, a lot of that is not necessarily so. My canoe is primarily a solo and has the main seat very near the center. I have no trouble keeping it on a straight track and have difficulty taking a sharp turn without heeling it over (due to the hull shape). There are a bow and stern seat but the hull is too narrow for big people to use them comfortably for a long time (they were perfect for my kids though). Whether of not a canoe pivots is as much a factor of the paddle stroke, the amount of keel, the amount of rocker, and whether you have the boat heeled over (assuming you have little or no rocker). If the seat is far off the center point the boat will tend to pivot more because you are lifting the bow (or stern) out of the water so you have less drag at that end. I've seen Timmaay do that many times. Especially the time he had his anchor outg. correct stuff snipped --riverman -- Stan Gula http://gula.org/roffswaps |
Stan Gula wrote:
riverman wrote: Hey, a thread with my name on it! Yeah, you can replace the center THWART with a seat. But as others have noted, you actualy don't want to be in the exact center of the canoe when you paddle, as the boat will tend to pivot rather than move forward when you stroke. Unfortunately, the center thwart DOES want to be in the exact center, so replacing it with a seat is at cross-purposes. For this reason, the middle thwart seat in 3-seat canoes is actually for a third person, not a solo paddler. Even traditional kayakers sit a little behind the midpoint. Well, a lot of that is not necessarily so. My canoe is primarily a solo and has the main seat very near the center. I have no trouble keeping it on a straight track and have difficulty taking a sharp turn without heeling it over (due to the hull shape). There are a bow and stern seat but the hull is too narrow for big people to use them comfortably for a long time (they were perfect for my kids though). Whether of not a canoe pivots is as much a factor of the paddle stroke, the amount of keel, the amount of rocker, and whether you have the boat heeled over (assuming you have little or no rocker). If the seat is far off the center point the boat will tend to pivot more because you are lifting the bow (or stern) out of the water so you have less drag at that end. I've seen Timmaay do that many times. Especially the time he had his anchor outg. Did I mention this was my first canoe? -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
"Charlie Choc" wrote in message ... On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:50:02 -0400, "Tim J." wrote: I just stuck the word "flyfishing" in there so it would be on-topic. ;-) Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two seats at front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove the center gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for solo ventures, or will that screw up the structural integrity of the canoe? Have you tried paddling the canoe 'backwards' while sitting 'backwards' in the front seat? That will get you closer to the middle of the canoe without having to modify it. -- Charlie... IJ adds --also put your cooler on floor by rear seat--------it'll help balance load and provide lots of fun when you crawl up to get a beer! |
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 18:28:46 GMT, "Stan Gula"
wrote: Frank Reid wrote: http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/...5/badger.shtml I don't know from badgers. I'm more interested in Hoary Hedgehog (released today). we don't need no stinking badgers |
"daytripper" wrote in message ... On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 18:28:46 GMT, "Stan Gula" wrote: Frank Reid wrote: http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/...5/badger.shtml I don't know from badgers. I'm more interested in Hoary Hedgehog (released today). we don't need no stinking badgers Hey! :( Wolfgang **** 'em, bucky! |
Tim J. wrote: riverman wrote: Hey, a thread with my name on it! Yeah, you can replace the center THWART with a seat. But as others have noted, you actualy don't want to be in the exact center of the canoe when you paddle, as the boat will tend to pivot rather than move forward when you stroke. Maybe my problem is that I bought a cheaper off-brand canoe and the bow seat is too far forward. It seemed a lot farther forward that I thought it should be when I got it based on others I'd used, and some folks (including me) have complained about it when in two-paddler mode. If that's the case, would it be a problem to remove the bow seat, get a slightly wider seat, cut it to fit, and mount it about 8 inches to a foot back? Paddling on my knees isn't an option, even with the butt support. I don't bend well anyway, and my knees have been known to give me trouble. Since they feel pretty good right now, I don't want to risk it. It could cut in to my wading trips. :) -- Well , there really aren't any rules, so you can do whatever works for you. I think you'd do fine to buy a standard, unfitted seat and place it where you can sit in it for solo boating. Be sure to get one with webbing straps, not cane, as they can poke through pretty quickly. Also, experiment with seat height...the thwart is at gunwale height, but the seat should be hung a few inches lower. If you know who your bow paddler will be, I'd suggest going whole hog. After you mount the front seat where it works for you solo, take out the stern seat and then, with both of you in the boat, move yourself fore and aft until you find the right place to remount a stern seat in order to counterbalance the bow paddler, so that the hull sits almost perfectly level. A good rule of thumb is for it to be down about an inch or so in the bow when loaded. Once a boat (even an offbrand) is fine-tuned this way, its a real joy to paddle, and you can load all your gear in the center where it has the least impact on turning. --riverman |
All true enough. I had recently heard that the keel actually plays a
smaller role than previously thought, other than providing a convenient wear-through point, but I abandoned keels long ago so I wouldn't know much about them. I like to keep it flat when I crash into some sleeper rock just below the surface. But even in your solo boat, I bet if you look closely, the seat is arranged so that, when your arms are extended forward, the PADDLE is at the midpoint, and your butt is about 8" or a foot behind the midline. If the seat was at the midline, you'd in effect be dragging the boat behind you when you paddled rather than pushing it ahead. This might not be quite so pronounced in a performance playboat, as they expect the paddler to be doing reverse draws as much as forward strokes. Even considering the keel, rocker or heeling, the most pronounced thing that effects a canoes pivoting is how far out you place your blade when take your stroke. Powerful turning strokes are those sweeping low brace strokes, which put the blade 3 or 4 feet out from the midline and sweep it along a radius. Unbeknownst to them, most beginners who keep their grip hand in front of their face are executing a sweep stroke every time they think they are paddling forwards. In my case, my grip hand is actually farther off board than my lower hand, and the blade is beneath the boat when I am paddling. As for keeling...next time you are paddling, try an experiment, I know it will suprise you. Get a good forward head of steam with the hull flat and level, take the paddle out, then shift your weight quickly to one side and heel it over. Watch what the boat does...its not what you expect. What boat do you have, BTW? --riverman |
riverman wrote:
As for keeling...next time you are paddling, try an experiment, I know it will suprise you. Get a good forward head of steam with the hull flat and level, take the paddle out, then shift your weight quickly to one side and heel it over. Watch what the boat does...its not what you expect. I'm assuming you mean heeling, not keeling. I think I have a pretty good feel for the relatioship between surface area and dragg. As to your point about keels, I think we agree that they mostly are good for wearing out and hanging up (and keeping the halves of an aluminum hull together). The same thing is true of the semi-V hulls like the ones Mad River uses. What boat do you have, BTW? A Wenonah Solo Plus (http://www.wenonah.com). I would send you a better link except their web site is all frames and they won't let you link to a sub page. Note that the narrow hull which makes flyfishing from the center seat easy. This is a very stable boat despite the narrowness. I have lent this to people who expect canoes to be tippy and they are soon converts. -- Stan Gula http://gula.org/roffswaps |
Stan Gula wrote: riverman wrote: As for keeling...next time you are paddling, try an experiment, I know it will suprise you. Get a good forward head of steam with the hull flat and level, take the paddle out, then shift your weight quickly to one side and heel it over. Watch what the boat does...its not what you expect. I'm assuming you mean heeling, not keeling. I think I have a pretty good feel for the relatioship between surface area and dragg. As to your point about keels, I think we agree that they mostly are good for wearing out and hanging up (and keeping the halves of an aluminum hull together). The same thing is true of the semi-V hulls like the ones Mad River uses. Um, right...heeling. And I'm sure you meant 'relationship', not 'relatioship' bseg. Anyway, other than the expected increased glide factor, the boat does something else suprising. The footprint of a heeled boat is not quite symmetrical...the side along the tumblehome is almost straight, while the side along the keel is more rounded, making a sort-of wing shaped footprint. If you suddenly heel over a boat that is moving forward, it will slip abeam. Try it. I never really could quantify the difference in behavior between shallow-V hulls, flat bottomed and rounded hulls. I knew they handled differently, but the effect all seemed to 'mix in' with other handling characteristics, so I could not clearly isolate what caused what, like all those ads seem to. But I do know that I like the behavior of the MR Explorer (with its shallow V) much more than any other boat I have paddled, and that little V in the floor makes it easier to bail out the very last few drops of water that come on board. What boat do you have, BTW? A Wenonah Solo Plus (http://www.wenonah.com). I would send you a better link except their web site is all frames and they won't let you link to a sub page. Note that the narrow hull which makes flyfishing from the center seat easy. This is a very stable boat despite the narrowness. I have lent this to people who expect canoes to be tippy and they are soon converts. Very nice boat! I have a BlueHole 17A....a real riverpig when its empty, but a very useful flat bottomed boat if you have a load of camping gear, want to stand and pole or fish, or maybe throw a formal dance with a few friends. --riverman |
Stan Gula wrote:
riverman wrote: As for keeling...next time you are paddling, try an experiment, I know it will suprise you. Get a good forward head of steam with the hull flat and level, take the paddle out, then shift your weight quickly to one side and heel it over. Watch what the boat does...its not what you expect. I'm assuming you mean heeling, not keeling. I think I have a pretty good feel for the relatioship between surface area and dragg. As to your point about keels, I think we agree that they mostly are good for wearing out and hanging up (and keeping the halves of an aluminum hull together). The same thing is true of the semi-V hulls like the ones Mad River uses. Um, right...heeling. And I'm sure you meant 'relationship', not 'relatioship' bseg. Anyway, other than the expected increased glide factor, the boat does something else suprising. The footprint of a heeled boat is not quite symmetrical...the side along the tumblehome is almost straight, while the side along the keel is more rounded, making a sort-of wing shaped footprint. If you suddenly heel over a boat that is moving forward, it will slip abeam. Try it. I never really could quantify the difference in behavior between shallow-V hulls, flat bottomed and rounded hulls. I knew they handled differently, but the effect all seemed to 'mix in' with other handling characteristics, so I could not clearly isolate what caused what, like all those ads seem to. But I do know that I like the behavior of the MR Explorer (with its shallow V) much more than any other boat I have paddled, and that little V in the floor makes it easier to bail out the very last few drops of water that come on board. What boat do you have, BTW? A Wenonah Solo Plus (http://www.wenonah.com). I would send you a better link except their web site is all frames and they won't let you link to a sub page. Note that the narrow hull which makes flyfishing from the center seat easy. This is a very stable boat despite the narrowness. I have lent this to people who expect canoes to be tippy and they are soon converts. Very nice boat! I have a BlueHole 17A....a real riverpig when its empty, but a very useful flat bottomed boat if you have a load of camping gear, want to stand and pole or fish, or maybe throw a formal dance with a few friends. --riverman |
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:50:02 -0400, "Tim J."
wrote: I just stuck the word "flyfishing" in there so it would be on-topic. ;-) Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two seats at front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove the center gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for solo ventures, or will that screw up the structural integrity of the canoe? Old Town has (or had, I bought one years ago and it's fine) a solid drop in seat of strong plastic as well as their more popular drop in seat of canvas. You could probably permanently mount it pretty easily. You could put that right in front of the yoke / thwart / gunwale and be fine. You could even cobble up something so that the thwart would help hold it for a backrest. Other companies probably have something similar. If you do remove the present yoke, be sure that you drop the seat you're putting in by several inches lower than the present yoke / thwart. Put it as low as possible consonant with your comfort. The lower any weight is in the bottom of the boat, the more stable the boat. With a canoe, this is even more important than with a rowboat or motor boat. Cyli r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels. Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. http://www.visi.com/~cyli email: lid (strip the .invalid to email) |
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:50:02 -0400, "Tim J."
wrote: I just stuck the word "flyfishing" in there so it would be on-topic. ;-) Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two seats at front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove the center gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for solo ventures, or will that screw up the structural integrity of the canoe? Old Town has (or had, I bought one years ago and it's fine) a solid drop in seat of strong plastic as well as their more popular drop in seat of canvas. You could probably permanently mount it pretty easily. You could put that right in front of the yoke / thwart / gunwale and be fine. You could even cobble up something so that the thwart would help hold it for a backrest. Other companies probably have something similar. If you do remove the present yoke, be sure that you drop the seat you're putting in by several inches lower than the present yoke / thwart. Put it as low as possible consonant with your comfort. The lower any weight is in the bottom of the boat, the more stable the boat. With a canoe, this is even more important than with a rowboat or motor boat. Cyli r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels. Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. http://www.visi.com/~cyli email: lid (strip the .invalid to email) |
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:25:37 -0400, "Tim J."
wrote: (snipped) Maybe my problem is that I bought a cheaper off-brand canoe and the bow seat is too far forward. It seemed a lot farther forward that I thought it should be when I got it based on others I'd used, and some folks (including me) have complained about it when in two-paddler mode. I don't know why they do that. It's probably not a cheapness factor as I once had a beauty of a canoe that cost me quite a bit more at an auction than I'd have paid for cheapie brand new. Check and see if the seat is any part of the integral support of the sides of the canoe. If not, put in a new seat farther back and then remove the old one. If it is part of the support, then make the new one supportive to the sides, too. It probably isn't, so you should be able to do it easily if you're hand with tools. BTW, those suckers usually also have the aft seat farther back than I'd like, also. I think it's a matter of making a design they think looks good and assuming all bow paddlers are midgets who bend well and happily. Or maybe they want to show a large cargo space? I dunno. It's just dumb. Cyli r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels. Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. http://www.visi.com/~cyli email: lid (strip the .invalid to email) |
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:25:37 -0400, "Tim J."
wrote: (snipped) Maybe my problem is that I bought a cheaper off-brand canoe and the bow seat is too far forward. It seemed a lot farther forward that I thought it should be when I got it based on others I'd used, and some folks (including me) have complained about it when in two-paddler mode. I don't know why they do that. It's probably not a cheapness factor as I once had a beauty of a canoe that cost me quite a bit more at an auction than I'd have paid for cheapie brand new. Check and see if the seat is any part of the integral support of the sides of the canoe. If not, put in a new seat farther back and then remove the old one. If it is part of the support, then make the new one supportive to the sides, too. It probably isn't, so you should be able to do it easily if you're hand with tools. BTW, those suckers usually also have the aft seat farther back than I'd like, also. I think it's a matter of making a design they think looks good and assuming all bow paddlers are midgets who bend well and happily. Or maybe they want to show a large cargo space? I dunno. It's just dumb. Cyli r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels. Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. http://www.visi.com/~cyli email: lid (strip the .invalid to email) |
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:25:37 -0400, "Tim J."
wrote: (snipped) Maybe my problem is that I bought a cheaper off-brand canoe and the bow seat is too far forward. It seemed a lot farther forward that I thought it should be when I got it based on others I'd used, and some folks (including me) have complained about it when in two-paddler mode. I don't know why they do that. It's probably not a cheapness factor as I once had a beauty of a canoe that cost me quite a bit more at an auction than I'd have paid for cheapie brand new. Check and see if the seat is any part of the integral support of the sides of the canoe. If not, put in a new seat farther back and then remove the old one. If it is part of the support, then make the new one supportive to the sides, too. It probably isn't, so you should be able to do it easily if you're hand with tools. BTW, those suckers usually also have the aft seat farther back than I'd like, also. I think it's a matter of making a design they think looks good and assuming all bow paddlers are midgets who bend well and happily. Or maybe they want to show a large cargo space? I dunno. It's just dumb. Cyli r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels. Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. http://www.visi.com/~cyli email: lid (strip the .invalid to email) |
Tim J. wrote:
Charlie Choc wrote: "Tim J." wrote: Okay all you roffian canoers, here's the plan: My canoe has two seats at front and rear with a gunwale in the center. Can I remove the center gunwale and replace it with a solid, mounted seat for solo ventures, or will that screw up the structural integrity of the canoe? Have you tried paddling the canoe 'backwards' while sitting 'backwards' in the front seat? ... Yeah, I'm doing that now but I'm still too far back. ... Consider one of these http://www.boundarywaterscatalog.com...cfm/4,100.html installed behind the center thwart. You won't have to "handy andy" your canoe and you'll still have the yoke so you can haul it around on your shoulders. I use a similar seat when I paddle my 18 footer solo. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Sure you can Tim....but two things to note.
1) You can often turn the canoe around and use the bow seat, put a little weight of course in the new bow...wilderness-tripping style. or 2) Remove the middle thwart...but remember to put the seat-setup in Behind the center mark. Don't know how much paddling you do...if you're sit-&_switch or kneeling...you always want the "catch" to happen near center, but the actual area of one's power pull wants to be behind center a bit. You want to look at your canoe's design...and gauge where it paddles the most efficiently from....to specifically mark where your weight should be. Have fun, Steve |
Tim,
In browsing over my Usenet groups...I'm skimming over this one...your canoe is a Solo Plus? or have I missed it somewhere... cause it sounds like you're thinking about putting a LOT of people(Too Many!) in a canoe....and remain stable...!, especially for your first canoe. I don't know how long you've been paddling, but...overload a canoe and you're asking for a potentially exciting(of the wrong kind) voyage... Steve |
Steve D. wrote:
Tim, In browsing over my Usenet groups...I'm skimming over this one...your canoe is a Solo Plus? or have I missed it somewhere... No, mine is an off-brand made for Dick's Sporting Goods. It's shaped very similar to an Old Town Osprey 155 - mine's about 14' long, but the bow seat is installed too far forward so it doesn't work well as a solo seat. The main problem isn't putting too many people in it, but that I want to use it solo. I've purchased a seat and will be relocating the bow seat about 10-12 inches more toward the center. I've also drilled the appropriate water-letter-outter holes as directed by this group. Who say you can't get good info on roff? ;-) -- TL, Tim --------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj/ |
"Tim J." wrote in message ... Steve D. wrote: Tim, In browsing over my Usenet groups...I'm skimming over this one...your canoe is a Solo Plus? or have I missed it somewhere... No, mine is an off-brand made for Dick's Sporting Goods. It's shaped very similar to an Old Town Osprey 155 - mine's about 14' long, but the bow seat is installed too far forward so it doesn't work well as a solo seat. The main problem isn't putting too many people in it, but that I want to use it solo. I've purchased a seat and will be relocating the bow seat about 10-12 inches more toward the center. I've also drilled the appropriate water-letter-outter holes as directed by this group. Who say you can't get good info on roff? ;-) Um........holes?........plural? You NEED a water-letter-outer-hole......that's obvious. So, if you drill another hole......guess what happens? Uh huh. Make sure you have an odd number! Wolfgang ya gotta explain EVERYTHING to some people. :( |
Wolfgang wrote:
"Tim J." wrote in message ... Steve D. wrote: Tim, In browsing over my Usenet groups...I'm skimming over this one...your canoe is a Solo Plus? or have I missed it somewhere... No, mine is an off-brand made for Dick's Sporting Goods. It's shaped very similar to an Old Town Osprey 155 - mine's about 14' long, but the bow seat is installed too far forward so it doesn't work well as a solo seat. The main problem isn't putting too many people in it, but that I want to use it solo. I've purchased a seat and will be relocating the bow seat about 10-12 inches more toward the center. I've also drilled the appropriate water-letter-outter holes as directed by this group. Who say you can't get good info on roff? ;-) Um........holes?........plural? You NEED a water-letter-outer-hole......that's obvious. So, if you drill another hole......guess what happens? Uh huh. Make sure you have an odd number! Good thing you told me now. I had twenty-six, but twenty-seven shouldn't be a problem. -- TL, Tim --------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj/ |
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"No, mine is an off-brand made for Dick's Sporting Goods. It's shaped
very similar to an Old Town Osprey 155 - mine's about 14' long, but the bow seat is installed too far forward so it doesn't work well as a solo seat. " Umm, are you sure you aren't already paddling it backwards? --riverman |
riverman wrote:
"No, mine is an off-brand made for Dick's Sporting Goods. It's shaped very similar to an Old Town Osprey 155 - mine's about 14' long, but the bow seat is installed too far forward so it doesn't work well as a solo seat. " Umm, are you sure you aren't already paddling it backwards? Myron, I'm not very canoe-part saavy, but *sometimes* I can tell my ass from a hole in the ground. ;-) I guess once I pull it out to work on it I'll have to provide the before and after shots to prove it. I'M TELLIN' YA, the bow seat is MUCH farther forward than any other canoe I've seen. I thought so when I bought it, and I know so now that I've used it. -- TL, Tim --------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj/ |
Myron, I'm not very canoe-part saavy, but *sometimes* I can tell my ass
from a hole in the ground. ;-) I guess once I pull it out to work on it I'll have to provide the before and after shots to prove it. I'M TELLIN' YA, the bow seat is MUCH farther forward than any other canoe I've seen. I thought so when I bought it, and I know so now that I've used it. -- TL, Tim Personally, I could never tell MY ass from a hole in the ground, because I never have actually seen my ass. :-) Yeah, quite a few shorter boats (13-15 footers) have the bow seat too far forwards. I've seen them placed almost symmetrically in each end, which is foolish. Thats because the hull really is better suited for a solo boat, but they are rigging them primarily for tandem. That puts the stern in a rather nice spot, crammed way back there, but then the bow paddler has to be crammed up front in order to counterbalance. Either that, or the guy installing the hardware had his head up a hole in the ground. The third seat in an Osprey is too centered to be a solo seat; its for a third person. Your initial plan of moving one seat closer to the center is just fine, but you ought to consider moving both to keep it balanced. A good way to estimate the correct position without floating the boat is to go to a site like www.oldtowncanoe.com, and look at some top views of their boats, and get the proportionate distances off the pictures. I think the arrangement in the Stillwater 14 is about what you want, but I'd move the stern seat about 1/2 seat width closer to the center. That particular rigging they show would be stern-heavy with two people: it's actually set up as a solo boat with tandem capability. Compare that setup with the Stillwater 12: (the pictures are scaled to the same size). The bow seat in the 12 footer is almost a full seat width farther from the midline. That boat is set up as a tandem. One thing about Old Town that I could never understand: they put their carrying yokes in backward. When you have the canoe on your shoulders, its nice to have that secondary thwart in front of you to hold on to. We always turned the yokes around on all our new OT boats. Wish I was there to help you...this is the type of thing I understand and can pitch in with. --riverman |
riverman wrote:
One thing about Old Town that I could never understand: they put their carrying yokes in backward. When you have the canoe on your shoulders, its nice to have that secondary thwart in front of you to hold on to. We always turned the yokes around on all our new OT boats. To which Jon replied: Huh. I haven't used our canoe in a few years (OT discovery 15'6"), but I've always cartopped it solo (and portaged a similar OT in Grand Teton NP solo) and never noticed this. You're probably right, my recollection is always holding on to the sides. I'm hoping to get it out this year, so I'll check this out. For most portages, like from the car to the water, the sides are completely adequate. But for some long wilderness portages (the longest I ever did was about 5 miles around a gorge on the Chimachouane in Quebec), you really appreciate being able to move your arms around to different locations. You can also use just one arm for a bit, on the center of the front thwart. And best of all, there is this clever way to rig your two paddles running lengthwise, tied to the two thwarts so that you can shift the boat forward and back and adjust the weight. It works especially well if you are hanging excess gear on to reduce the number of portages you need to make. --riverman I never put the canoe into the side of a car, but I have knocked innocent bystanders on their ass a few times. |
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