Coming un-buttoned
 

I've been having some trouble with larger fish getting off the hook. I
had 2 tournaments a few weeks ago (Saturday and Sunday) and at the end of
each I lost a 3 and 4 pounder respectively. Both were caught on 5" T-rigged
Senkos with Gammie EWG #3 hooks on 10lb mono and at the far end of a long
cast. Both jumped a couple of times and shook the hook. At first I blamed
the mono for stretching and not giving me a solid enough hookset.
Then this past Friday night I hit a local reservoir to do some midnight
fishing. I had the same rod and reel but I respooled with 10 lb. Power Pro
(which I love BTW) to eliminate stretch. Well first I bag a 2.5 pound
smallie and soon after a 3 pound LM. A half hour later, I get a hit and set
the hook and buzzzzz, the drag starts going. It was a BIG bass (at least
for NJ) and in the shadows it looked like an oversized football when it
jumped (3 times). Recently I've hooked a few 4 pounders and this was
clearly quite a bit larger. By the fight I'd say well over 5 or maybe 6
pounds, who really knows. Anyway, after a minute of fighting and a few
jumps this one also throws the hook.
Now I don't know what to think. What am I missing? In the past I
rarely lost fish, but I've gotten better at finding them and I've been
hooking bigger ones lately. Is this just par for the course with bigger
bass, you just lose some? Or should I be doing something else? I'm not
letting the pressure off when they jump and the hook comes flying back at
me, should I be easing up? Should I be clamping down more? Am I fighting
them too hard and opening a hole in their mouths?

Any help would be great.

Rich P

"Rich P" wrote in message
...
I've been having some trouble with larger fish getting off the hook. I
had 2 tournaments a few weeks ago (Saturday and Sunday) and at the end of
each I lost a 3 and 4 pounder respectively. Both were caught on 5"
T-rigged Senkos with Gammie EWG #3 hooks on 10lb mono and at the far end
of a long cast. Both jumped a couple of times and shook the hook. At
first I blamed the mono for stretching and not giving me a solid enough
hookset.
Then this past Friday night I hit a local reservoir to do some midnight
fishing. I had the same rod and reel but I respooled with 10 lb. Power
Pro (which I love BTW) to eliminate stretch. Well first I bag a 2.5 pound
smallie and soon after a 3 pound LM. A half hour later, I get a hit and
set the hook and buzzzzz, the drag starts going. It was a BIG bass (at
least for NJ) and in the shadows it looked like an oversized football
when it jumped (3 times). Recently I've hooked a few 4 pounders and this
was clearly quite a bit larger. By the fight I'd say well over 5 or maybe
6 pounds, who really knows. Anyway, after a minute of fighting and a few
jumps this one also throws the hook.
Now I don't know what to think. What am I missing? In the past I
rarely lost fish, but I've gotten better at finding them and I've been
hooking bigger ones lately. Is this just par for the course with bigger
bass, you just lose some? Or should I be doing something else? I'm not
letting the pressure off when they jump and the hook comes flying back at
me, should I be easing up? Should I be clamping down more? Am I fighting
them too hard and opening a hole in their mouths?

Any help would be great.

My first thought was that with mono, you weren't getting an adequate hookset
on a long cast, and I still think that. That's one of the reasons why I
don't use mono line any longer.

Now that you're using PowerPro, there are a couple things that you need to
remember. First of all, because you have almost zero stretch, you don't
need that mongo hookset any longer, just a quick snap of the wrist.
Anything more and you risk tearing a large hole in the fish's jaw. When I
started using superlines, I lost a lot of fish and couldn't understand why.
Then I started landing fish (barely) that had a 2 inch tear in the jaw. A
simple wrist snap hookset reduced the problem a lot.

Jumping fish will toss hooks. It seems that when you really put the screws
to a bass, they jump. If you can avoid putting extreme pressure on them,
they'll stay down, reducing the risk of jumping. Also, hold the rod
parallel to the water while fighting a large bass seems to reduce their
jumping somewhat.

Heavy bass can put a lot of pressure on the line/hooks too. A surge by the
bass can tear a large, gaping hole, releasing the hooks too. With casting
gear, I have the drag clamped down tight on hooksets, then after the fish is
on, I'll either back off the drag a little bit (1/8th turn) or pop the reel
out of gear and use my thumb as a drag. With spinning tackle, I have the
drag set so there's a little slip on the hookset or backreel when needed to
reduce the pressure so the fish don't pull free.

These things have helped reduce the number of lost fish. But remember,
things happen and you're not going to win them all.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

1st- what kind of rod are you using?
2nd- trailer hook on the buzzbait?
3rd- Keep the rod down to keep the fish from jumping.
4th- If your not fishing tons of thick stuff with the senkos, consider
adding a small treble to the hook
5th- Want some practice with the hookset? Come on up.

"Rich P" wrote in message
...
I've been having some trouble with larger fish getting off the hook. I
had 2 tournaments a few weeks ago (Saturday and Sunday) and at the end of
each I lost a 3 and 4 pounder respectively. Both were caught on 5"
T-rigged Senkos with Gammie EWG #3 hooks on 10lb mono and at the far end
of a long cast. Both jumped a couple of times and shook the hook. At
first I blamed the mono for stretching and not giving me a solid enough
hookset.
Then this past Friday night I hit a local reservoir to do some midnight
fishing. I had the same rod and reel but I respooled with 10 lb. Power
Pro (which I love BTW) to eliminate stretch. Well first I bag a 2.5 pound
smallie and soon after a 3 pound LM. A half hour later, I get a hit and
set the hook and buzzzzz, the drag starts going. It was a BIG bass (at
least for NJ) and in the shadows it looked like an oversized football
when it jumped (3 times). Recently I've hooked a few 4 pounders and this
was clearly quite a bit larger. By the fight I'd say well over 5 or maybe
6 pounds, who really knows. Anyway, after a minute of fighting and a few
jumps this one also throws the hook.
Now I don't know what to think. What am I missing? In the past I
rarely lost fish, but I've gotten better at finding them and I've been
hooking bigger ones lately. Is this just par for the course with bigger
bass, you just lose some? Or should I be doing something else? I'm not
letting the pressure off when they jump and the hook comes flying back at
me, should I be easing up? Should I be clamping down more? Am I fighting
them too hard and opening a hole in their mouths?

Any help would be great.

Rich P

No buzzbzit, the buzzzzz was the sound of the drag (my theatrics). And I'm
using a Shimano Compre' rod (medium action fast taper 7'). Again it was a
Senko T-rigged. I don't believe hookset is the problem, I'm sure the hook
penetrated that last fish, there was too much pressure for it not to I
think.

Rich P


"alwaysfishking" wrote in message
...
1st- what kind of rod are you using?
2nd- trailer hook on the buzzbait?
3rd- Keep the rod down to keep the fish from jumping.
4th- If your not fishing tons of thick stuff with the senkos, consider
adding a small treble to the hook
5th- Want some practice with the hookset? Come on up.

"Rich P" wrote in message
...
I've been having some trouble with larger fish getting off the hook.
I had 2 tournaments a few weeks ago (Saturday and Sunday) and at the end
of each I lost a 3 and 4 pounder respectively. Both were caught on 5"
T-rigged Senkos with Gammie EWG #3 hooks on 10lb mono and at the far end
of a long cast. Both jumped a couple of times and shook the hook. At
first I blamed the mono for stretching and not giving me a solid enough
hookset.
Then this past Friday night I hit a local reservoir to do some
midnight fishing. I had the same rod and reel but I respooled with 10
lb. Power Pro (which I love BTW) to eliminate stretch. Well first I bag
a 2.5 pound smallie and soon after a 3 pound LM. A half hour later, I
get a hit and set the hook and buzzzzz, the drag starts going. It was a
BIG bass (at least for NJ) and in the shadows it looked like an
oversized football when it jumped (3 times). Recently I've hooked a few
4 pounders and this was clearly quite a bit larger. By the fight I'd say
well over 5 or maybe 6 pounds, who really knows. Anyway, after a minute
of fighting and a few jumps this one also throws the hook.
Now I don't know what to think. What am I missing? In the past I
rarely lost fish, but I've gotten better at finding them and I've been
hooking bigger ones lately. Is this just par for the course with bigger
bass, you just lose some? Or should I be doing something else? I'm not
letting the pressure off when they jump and the hook comes flying back at
me, should I be easing up? Should I be clamping down more? Am I fighting
them too hard and opening a hole in their mouths?

Any help would be great.

Rich P

"Rich P" wrote in message
...

First off I have had terrible luck with t-rigging senkos. The bait just
slides out of their mouth for me on the hook set, and then when I do get a
hook up it seems to be a skin hook.

I think I'll fish them on offset worm hooks instead of in-line hooks when
t-rigging from now on. It seems to help with other baits. In fact I think
I'll try offset worm hooks for everything except the heaviest cover flipping
from now on.

Now here is the what I have noticed. Most senko fish seem to hit on the
initial drop. If I crank down and hit them hard I tend to hook them up
pretty good, but a lot of times I am reeling in my bait and I notice it is
heavy. I set the hook and often lose the fish somewhere on the retrieve. I
think what happened is either the fish felt the gentle pressure of a normal
retrieve and just went with the flow, or they chased the bait to take it.
In either case they are facing when I set the hook. The bait can slip out,
and they are probably traveling towards me when I set the hook thereby
reducing my hooksetting force.

If I don't feel a solid thump when I set the hook I crank down and set it
again.

I don't have much drag at any time. If the drag slips when I set the hook I
knw I got as good a hookset as I am going to get. I fish witht he drag set
so a 1.5 buck bass will strip a little drag on his hardest runs, and a 2+
will strip drag on runs. If I need more pressure to kkeeep them out of the
weeds I use my thumb and the instant they turn even a little bit I back off
the thumb pressure.

Now bear in mind my experience is limited from what some of the other
regulars can offer, but I did exactly this on saturday to boat a 5.5 for 2nd
place big fish in a Desert Bass tourney on saturday. I was tossing blind to
a deep channel. When I started to take up slack I noticed there was more
slack than I though there should be. I cranked up as much as I dared and
set the hook hard. The linedrag didn't slip, and I didn't feel a solid
thump. I cranked down (keeping pressure on her) and hit her again. I still
didn't get a solid thump, but I was afraid to try it again for fear that I
had a skin hook in her. She headed for the tulies and I applied gently
pressure with my thumb. She turned and dived under the boat. I let her run
a little and then thumbed her a bit while I unwrapped the line from around
the trolling motor. She made three or four runs back under the boat before
my son managed to get a net under here. She was hooks solidly, but was not
torn. I have to say, that I was wacky rigging, and she had the hook through
a bony plate in the roof of her mouth. I can't say since there is no camera
on the hook, but that second hookset may have been what saved that fish. I
barely felt any pressure ont he first hookset. I can't imagine it was
enough to drive that hook home through that boney plate.

Don't go thinking a second hookset needs to be done all the time. Its does
not. In fact most times a second hook set will risk tearing a big hole and
losing fish. I ONLY do it on those occassions where I am fishing plastics,
and I am not comfortable with the initial hookset.


--
Bob La Londe

Win a Tackle Pack
Jig Fishing - Tips and Techniques Contest
Courtesy of Siebler Custom Baits
http://www.YumaBassMan.com

I'll bet it's one of two things (three actually) Rich;

1) Your rod is too light & not sufficient for sticking hard-mouthed bass.

2) Your hookset needs a revamping.

3) You're having some bad luck.

You couldn't be overfighting the fish because if you overfight a 6# bass on
10# mono your lines gonna break. A properly-set drag makes overfighting a
non-factor.

Stretching mono forgives angler mistakes after the hookset, it doesn't cause
it. Mono may break as the result of stretch on a hard hookset, but stretch
wont cause a hook to pull-out during a battle. You're generally so close to
your fish in most bassin situations that stretch wont be a factor with 10#
mono anyway.

Make sure there's not much slack in your line before setting the hook.

Id bet either you're not getting a good set, or that you're using a bit of a
"whimpy" rod. I'm amazed at how many guys I see bass fishing with trout
tackle.

Warren

"Rich P" wrote in message
...
I've been having some trouble with larger fish getting off the hook.
I
had 2 tournaments a few weeks ago (Saturday and Sunday) and at the end of
each I lost a 3 and 4 pounder respectively. Both were caught on 5"
T-rigged
Senkos with Gammie EWG #3 hooks on 10lb mono and at the far end of a long
cast. Both jumped a couple of times and shook the hook. At first I
blamed
the mono for stretching and not giving me a solid enough hookset.
Then this past Friday night I hit a local reservoir to do some
midnight
fishing. I had the same rod and reel but I respooled with 10 lb. Power
Pro
(which I love BTW) to eliminate stretch. Well first I bag a 2.5 pound
smallie and soon after a 3 pound LM. A half hour later, I get a hit and
set
the hook and buzzzzz, the drag starts going. It was a BIG bass (at least
for NJ) and in the shadows it looked like an oversized football when it
jumped (3 times). Recently I've hooked a few 4 pounders and this was
clearly quite a bit larger. By the fight I'd say well over 5 or maybe 6
pounds, who really knows. Anyway, after a minute of fighting and a few
jumps this one also throws the hook.
Now I don't know what to think. What am I missing? In the past I
rarely lost fish, but I've gotten better at finding them and I've been
hooking bigger ones lately. Is this just par for the course with bigger
bass, you just lose some? Or should I be doing something else? I'm not
letting the pressure off when they jump and the hook comes flying back at
me, should I be easing up? Should I be clamping down more? Am I fighting
them too hard and opening a hole in their mouths?

Any help would be great.

Rich P

Two things I can think of to try. One would be that once you set the
hook on a long cast, set the hook with a strong pull along with quickly
reeling rather than a flipping type hookset whre you really haul back.
This may help stop some tearing.

The second thing is your hook. I know that offset hook is popular with
many anglers, but I have found that that extra bend that keeps the bait
from sliding down the hook also will start to blow the fish's mouth
open as the hook is set. When carolina rigging or most soft plastic
fishing for that matter with a few exceptions, I have switched to using
a straight shank hook! It works much better than if you are fishing
that Senko on top with a twitch action. The slow pulls with the
carolina will not be so apt to pull the bait down the hook. Pegging
through the hook eye and nose of the bait with a tooth pick will also
help a lot if your bait tends to bunch up on the cast. If necessary,
fishing glue applid to this area will help alot. When I first started
fishing the upper level of tournaments, I ran into very much the same
problem and was helped out by the big boys. Also consider the size of
your hook. The bait you are fishing should fit 3 times in the bend of
the hook between the straight shank and the barb of the hook.

Rich P wrote:
I've been having some trouble with larger fish getting off the hook.
Check your email.

Thanks everyone, especially Rich Z who contacted me directly with good
advice.

Rich P

"go-bassn" wrote in message
...
I'll bet it's one of two things (three actually) Rich;

So where the heck have you been? It's been awfully quiet from you since
before I went to Africa.

I moved the NWC from Boom Lake to Lake Mohawksin so you'd have a "lake with
bass in it", tell me you're coming. We've got more than enough boats so you
can come on out and see how you fare on different water.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

There are times when 30 lb line won't make a difference. I have had
fish clamp down on the bait so hard that a cross their eyes hookset
still doesn't move the bait in their mouth. They will finally tire of
it and open their mouth and swim free.

I have also had days where they grabbed a crankbait with the sharpest
VMC hooks in the world. As I play them to the boat, they will open
their mouth and swim right off.

Frustrating, you bet. A few hours later or several fish later and it
can change. Funny when you compare notes with 7 other guys at a team
event and they have all experienced the same thing on different tackle.

Carlos

"Rich P" wrote in message
...
I've been having some trouble with larger fish getting off the hook.
I
had 2 tournaments a few weeks ago (Saturday and Sunday) and at the end of
each I lost a 3 and 4 pounder respectively. Both were caught on 5"
T-rigged
Senkos with Gammie EWG #3 hooks snipped

I assume you meant #3/0, not #3. Otherwise, that's probably the problem.

Have you tried switching to a Medium-Heavy rod? Sounds like your hookset is
suffering with that medium rod.



"Rich P" wrote in message
...
No buzzbzit, the buzzzzz was the sound of the drag (my theatrics). And
I'm using a Shimano Compre' rod (medium action fast taper 7'). Again it
was a Senko T-rigged. I don't believe hookset is the problem, I'm sure
the hook penetrated that last fish, there was too much pressure for it not
to I think.

Rich P


"alwaysfishking" wrote in message
...
1st- what kind of rod are you using?
2nd- trailer hook on the buzzbait?
3rd- Keep the rod down to keep the fish from jumping.
4th- If your not fishing tons of thick stuff with the senkos, consider
adding a small treble to the hook
5th- Want some practice with the hookset? Come on up.

"Rich P" wrote in message
...
I've been having some trouble with larger fish getting off the hook.
I had 2 tournaments a few weeks ago (Saturday and Sunday) and at the end
of each I lost a 3 and 4 pounder respectively. Both were caught on 5"
T-rigged Senkos with Gammie EWG #3 hooks on 10lb mono and at the far end
of a long cast. Both jumped a couple of times and shook the hook. At
first I blamed the mono for stretching and not giving me a solid enough
hookset.
Then this past Friday night I hit a local reservoir to do some
midnight fishing. I had the same rod and reel but I respooled with 10
lb. Power Pro (which I love BTW) to eliminate stretch. Well first I bag
a 2.5 pound smallie and soon after a 3 pound LM. A half hour later, I
get a hit and set the hook and buzzzzz, the drag starts going. It was a
BIG bass (at least for NJ) and in the shadows it looked like an
oversized football when it jumped (3 times). Recently I've hooked a few
4 pounders and this was clearly quite a bit larger. By the fight I'd
say well over 5 or maybe 6 pounds, who really knows. Anyway, after a
minute of fighting and a few jumps this one also throws the hook.
Now I don't know what to think. What am I missing? In the past I
rarely lost fish, but I've gotten better at finding them and I've been
hooking bigger ones lately. Is this just par for the course with bigger
bass, you just lose some? Or should I be doing something else? I'm not
letting the pressure off when they jump and the hook comes flying back
at me, should I be easing up? Should I be clamping down more? Am I
fighting them too hard and opening a hole in their mouths?

Any help would be great.

Rich P

I think maybe the hookset was the problem with the mono, but there's no
way it was the problem with the power pro. I think the problem there was
too much pressure and the hole in the mouth getting opened up a little. I'm
going to work on easing up on the fight and keeping my rod low (in the
water) till I get them close enough to bag.

Thanks for all the help, I'll let you know how it goes next time I hook
a big one. I plan to fish again this coming Friday night.

Rich P


"Marty" wrote in message
...

"Rich P" wrote in message
...
I've been having some trouble with larger fish getting off the hook.
I
had 2 tournaments a few weeks ago (Saturday and Sunday) and at the end of
each I lost a 3 and 4 pounder respectively. Both were caught on 5"
T-rigged
Senkos with Gammie EWG #3 hooks snipped

I assume you meant #3/0, not #3. Otherwise, that's probably the problem.

I think maybe the hookset was the problem with the mono, but there's no
way it was the problem with the power pro. I think the problem there was
too much pressure and the hole in the mouth getting opened up a little.
I'm going to work on easing up on the fight and keeping my rod low (in
the water) till I get them close enough to bag.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Thanks for all the help, I'll let you know how
it goes next time I hook a big one. I plan to fish again this coming
Friday night.
Rich P
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
No! Your new ideas are wrong, and I'll tell you why right now.

First question I'll ask is, are you thinking you're going to apply
Bluegill, and Crappie finesse techniques on large Bass? If the answer
is yes, you'll never succeed in becoming proficient at catching large
bass.

It is sometimes avoidable of a bass acquiring a large hole in their
mouths, the sides of their mouths are like paper, and any large hook
will tear a hole. Within a second, or two, the hole can easily be the
size of a .38 caliber bullet.

Toying with the fish will get you nowhere! You give him just one
opportunity to get off, and he will. This means never letting up, never
giving him slack, never "playing" him, you fight him, don't play him.
In virtually all instances, you need to horse Bass, not play them, and
you need the proper, ultra strong equipment that can take this abuse.

You will not land all large bass, and that's a fact, but to increase
your percentages, this is what I think you need to do.

NEVER leave your rod low to the water when a fish is on! Your ignoring
the most important aspects of what a fishing rod was designed, and
supposed to do.

By keeping your Rod low to the water, your Rod now has no ability to
absorb shock loads from the fish, has no ability to automatically keep
tabs on slack, and has no ability to absorb shock which can break your
line, and even damage your fishing reel.

Try this test once: Attach a house brick at the end of your line, stand
with the brick in front of you with the brick on the ground, hold the
rod at a 45 degree angle, and now, without moving the rod up, or down,
try cranking up the brick. You'll then understand the great importance
a rod plays in fighting fish.

Dump the 10 pound test. There's nothing at all wrong with monofilament
lines, provided you're using good high quality name brands, and of the
proper test. For bass, I'd recommend no less than something like 17-20
lb Dupont Magnathin , or the like. For slop fishing, I'd say this is a
low end borderline for test.

Yes, you are going to sacrifice some casting distance, it is unavoidable
in many instances, especially if your trying to cast light lures like
some rubber frog baits, poppers, etc.

If your using light Spinning Gear which is generally not ideally suited
for Bass fishing, consider upgrading to a larger sal****er type Spinning
reel which will be better compatible with the heavier lines I mention,
or convert over to Bass Casting gear, such as a Shimano Calcutta, Garcia
Abu Ambassador 5000. Both are good reels.
I've got a friend in MN who once showed me a couple of large cardboard
boxes full of lesser reels which just didn't hold up for long, and
literally disintegrated under the abuses of big bass fishing. Reels
like those fancy all graphite Quantums (621's 381's etc), and cheaper
Daiwa's.

All my Bass Casting rods are ALL Heavy Action (St Croix Legend mostly).
I've found virtually all Medium action Rods to be way too wimpy for good
hooksets, and for having the ability to turn, and properly fight big
bass. By big bass I mean minimum 4 lbs, and up.

Yes I know, a 6-7 lb'er in florida perhaps isn't considered a "large"
bass, but a scrappy 6 lb'er in minnesota, and I guarantee you,, you'll
have your hands full big time!

I'd also closely examine, and consider trying other hooks for your
fishing. Some of these offset bend hooks may not be properly driving
home into a bass's jaw with good pressure.

Always remember, a big bass has only one goal when you hook him, and
that's to get away from you as quickly as possible, at no matter what
cost, whether it's wrapping himself around a log, some weeds, a boat
dock, cattails, lily pads, anything he can find, and also making a
quick moment of slack in the line. Just a fraction of a second of slack
will be all he needs in instances to succeed in finding freedom.
I hope these guidelines help you in better success, Mark

Hope ya got my Email Steve, let me know if you didnt bud...

WW

"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" wrote in
message ...

"go-bassn" wrote in message
...
I'll bet it's one of two things (three actually) Rich;

So where the heck have you been? It's been awfully quiet from you since
before I went to Africa.

I moved the NWC from Boom Lake to Lake Mohawksin so you'd have a "lake
with
bass in it", tell me you're coming. We've got more than enough boats so
you
can come on out and see how you fare on different water.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com