The end of the line.
 

Rosa Parks, exemplar of quiet grace, dignity and courage got off the bus for
the last time yesterday.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/25/par...cnn_topstories

Wolfgang

The end of the line.
 

Wolfgang typed:
Rosa Parks, exemplar of quiet grace, dignity and courage got off the
bus for the last time yesterday.

That kind of courage and dignity is rarely found. RIP, Rosa.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

The end of the line.
 

"Wolfgang" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Rosa Parks, exemplar of quiet grace, dignity and courage got off the bus
for the last time yesterday.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/25/par...cnn_topstories

Wolfgang

Absolutely magnificent what a single determined person can achieve. Ought to
be required reading in every school in the world.

TL
MC

The end of the line.
 

"Mike Connor" wrote ...

"Wolfgang"
Rosa Parks, exemplar of quiet grace, dignity and courage got off the bus
for the last time yesterday.



Absolutely magnificent what a single determined person can achieve. Ought
to be required reading in every school in the world.

TL
MC


Yes.

But don't forget that Mrs. Parks was not the first person to challenge the
seating rules. Others had filed suit and won in regards to interstate
travel. Her case, which was taken by the NAACP (where she worked, BTW), was
simply chosen as the right case at the right time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks

http://www.africanaonline.com/rosa_parks.htm

Don't get me wrong, she is still worthy of all the praise she received (and
will continue to receive), but the pageantry-version of her story is sorta
BS.

Dan

The end of the line.
 

"Daniel-San" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
. ..
SNIP
Don't get me wrong, she is still worthy of all the praise she received
(and will continue to receive), but the pageantry-version of her story is
sorta BS.

Dan

Yes, I am aware of that. Doubtless there were many such incidents. They were
all equally magnificent. Only one got the massive publicity.

TL
MC

The end of the line.
 

Daniel-San typed:
"Mike Connor" wrote ...

"Wolfgang"
Rosa Parks, exemplar of quiet grace, dignity and courage got off
the bus for the last time yesterday.

Absolutely magnificent what a single determined person can achieve.
Ought to be required reading in every school in the world.

Yes. But don't forget that Mrs. Parks was not the first person to
challenge the seating rules. Others had filed suit and won in regards
to interstate travel. Her case, which was taken by the NAACP (where
she worked, BTW), was simply chosen as the right case at the right
time.
Don't get me wrong, she is still worthy of all the praise she
received (and will continue to receive), but the pageantry-version of
her story is sorta BS.

Maybe, but *I* would have probably given up my seat.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

The end of the line.
 

"Tim J." wrote ...

snipola

Maybe, but *I* would have probably given up my seat.
--

Agreed. I guess that's why she's worthy of the praise.

Dan

The end of the line.
 

Daniel-San wrote:

Don't get me wrong, she is still worthy of all the praise she received (and
will continue to receive), but the pageantry-version of her story is sorta
BS.

Dan

Not when you consider the physical courage and mental toughness it took
in refusing the order to give up her seat in 1955. She put herself in
great jeopardy of personal harm. Like Tim, put in the same position, I
would likely have given up my seat.

R.I.P. Rosa

The end of the line.
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...
Rosa Parks, exemplar of quiet grace, dignity and courage got off the bus
for the last time yesterday.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/25/par...cnn_topstories

Wolfgang

As I sat in the dentist chair this morning, we (they mostly since there were
many tools in my mouth) talked about the passing of Mrs. Parks. When I
finally got a word in, I said "in all reality, it wasn't that long ago..."

I would be born about 11 years after the incident, however I find it hard to
believe this wasn't that long ago if you look at the big picture...

JT

The end of the line.
 

"Daniel-San" wrote in message
. ..

"Tim J." wrote ...

snipola

Maybe, but *I* would have probably given up my seat.
--

Agreed. I guess that's why she's worthy of the praise.

Dan

why, that's downright white of you, dan.

jesus.

wayno

The end of the line.
 

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
om...

"Daniel-San" wrote in message
. ..

"Tim J." wrote ...

snipola

Maybe, but *I* would have probably given up my seat.
--

Agreed. I guess that's why she's worthy of the praise.

Dan

why, that's downright white of you, dan.

jesus.

wayno


???

huh?

The end of the line.
 

"George Adams" wrote ...

Daniel-San wrote:

Don't get me wrong, she is still worthy of all the praise she received
(and
will continue to receive), but the pageantry-version of her story is
sorta
BS.

Dan

Not when you consider the physical courage and mental toughness it took
in refusing the order to give up her seat in 1955. She put herself in
great jeopardy of personal harm. Like Tim, put in the same position, I
would likely have given up my seat.

R.I.P. Rosa


Look, I'm not saying that she didn't do something that took courage. She
refused to give up her seat -- in direct contravention of both the law and
the bus driver there in her face. That took cojones, no doubt. I respect her
immensely for that. What I am saying is that she did not galvanize the civil
rights movement. The NAACP used her case as a rallying point. They had been
prepared to use other cases before Parks', but did not for one reason or
another (one was a 15 year old girl -- looked good until she turned out to
be pregnant). Parks being a woman of nearly impeccable charcter made for a
good rallying point. That's all I'm saying. Sure, absolutely she was a great
human being. As I said before, worthy of the praise she received. But if you
ask 'joe on the street' who she was, you'll get an answer along the lines of
"she started the civil rights movement." That is BS.

Dan

The end of the line.
 

Daniel-San wrote:
"Wayne Harrison" wrote:
"Daniel-San" wrote:
"Tim J." wrote ...
snipola

Maybe, but *I* would have probably given up my seat.

Agreed. I guess that's why she's worthy of the praise.

why, that's downright white of you, dan.

jesus.

wayno

???

huh?

I'll take a stab at it.

First, you took the occasion of her death to point out
to us that Rosa Parks wasn't exceptional and that her
story was in fact sorta BS. Then you "guess" that she
is worthy of praise.

Like my friend in the Old North State said, that's
awfully white of you.

--
Ken Fortenberry

The end of the line.
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
...
Daniel-San wrote:
"Wayne Harrison" wrote:
"Daniel-San" wrote:
"Tim J." wrote ...
snipola

Maybe, but *I* would have probably given up my seat.

Agreed. I guess that's why she's worthy of the praise.

why, that's downright white of you, dan.

jesus.

wayno

???

huh?

I'll take a stab at it.

First, you took the occasion of her death to point out
to us that Rosa Parks wasn't exceptional and that her
story was in fact sorta BS. Then you "guess" that she
is worthy of praise.

Like my friend in the Old North State said, that's
awfully white of you.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Well, I guess that I chose my words poorly. Very poorly as a matter of fact.
I did not say that she was not exceptional. I merely pointed out that her
actions were used by others to initiate the civil rights movement. I also
said that she is worthy of the praise she has, and will continue to receive.

If my comments were taken as degrading her, I chose my words poorly.

Dan

The end of the line.
 

Daniel-San typed:
"George Adams" wrote ...

Daniel-San wrote:

Don't get me wrong, she is still worthy of all the praise she
received (and
will continue to receive), but the pageantry-version of her story is
sorta
BS.

Not when you consider the physical courage and mental toughness it
took in refusing the order to give up her seat in 1955. She put
herself in great jeopardy of personal harm. Like Tim, put in the
same position, I would likely have given up my seat.

R.I.P. Rosa

Look, I'm not saying that she didn't do something that took courage. She
refused to give up her seat -- in direct contravention of both
the law and the bus driver there in her face. That took cojones, no
doubt. I respect her immensely for that.

It was much more she was facing. She knew full well that she would be
ostracized by local white society in general. She was arrested, lost her
job, and was fined (I wonder if she was ever reimbursed the $14?).

What I am saying is that she did not galvanize the civil rights movement.

If this act didn't galvanize the movement, what did? This started the public
transportation boycott that near bankrupted the bus line. This is what
brought Martin Luther King to the forefront. I'd say it was probably one of
the single most galvanizing moments in recent history.

The NAACP used her case as a rallying point. They had been prepared to use
other cases before
Parks', but did not for one reason or another (one was a 15 year old
girl -- looked good until she turned out to be pregnant). Parks being
a woman of nearly impeccable charcter made for a good rallying point.

Kinda like a galvanizing moment, wot?

That's all I'm saying. Sure, absolutely she was a great human being.
As I said before, worthy of the praise she received. But if you ask
'joe on the street' who she was, you'll get an answer along the lines
of "she started the civil rights movement." That is BS.

I'm not sure of these Joes of which you speak, but anyone with a brief study
of the civil rights movement knows she didn't start it. She sure did make
people focus on it.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

The end of the line.
 

"Tim J." wrote ...
Daniel-San typed:
"George Adams" wrote ...

Daniel-San wrote:

Don't get me wrong, she is still worthy of all the praise she
received (and
will continue to receive), but the pageantry-version of her story is
sorta
BS.

Not when you consider the physical courage and mental toughness it
took in refusing the order to give up her seat in 1955. She put
herself in great jeopardy of personal harm. Like Tim, put in the
same position, I would likely have given up my seat.

R.I.P. Rosa

Look, I'm not saying that she didn't do something that took courage. She
refused to give up her seat -- in direct contravention of both
the law and the bus driver there in her face. That took cojones, no
doubt. I respect her immensely for that.

It was much more she was facing. She knew full well that she would be
ostracized by local white society in general. She was arrested, lost her
job, and was fined (I wonder if she was ever reimbursed the $14?).





What I am saying is that she did not galvanize the civil rights movement.

If this act didn't galvanize the movement, what did? This started the
public transportation boycott that near bankrupted the bus line. This is
what brought Martin Luther King to the forefront. I'd say it was probably
one of the single most galvanizing moments in recent history

The NAACP used her case as a rallying point. They had been prepared to
use other cases before
Parks', but did not for one reason or another (one was a 15 year old
girl -- looked good until she turned out to be pregnant). Parks being
a woman of nearly impeccable charcter made for a good rallying point.

Kinda like a galvanizing moment, wot?

That's all I'm saying. Sure, absolutely she was a great human being.
As I said before, worthy of the praise she received. But if you ask
'joe on the street' who she was, you'll get an answer along the lines
of "she started the civil rights movement." That is BS.

I'm not sure of these Joes of which you speak, but anyone with a brief
study of the civil rights movement knows she didn't start it. She sure did
make people focus on it.


The same "Joes" that would answer "What caused the Civil War?" with
"slavery". Absolutely it was a factor, but it was not the cause. She did not
make people focus on it, the NAACP did when they took her case. She was a
good, decent person who took a personal stand. As Dr. King said: "Mrs. Parks'
arrest was the precipitating factor rather than the cause of the protest.
The cause lay deep in the record of similar injustices...Actually no one can
understand the action of Mrs. Parks unless he realizes that eventually the
cup of endurance runs over, and the human personality cries out, 'I can take
it no longer.'" quick quote from Wikipedia... don't have my copy handy for
page, etc.

That's all I'm sayin'. Great person. Great action. Used by others as a
rallying-cry.

Dan

--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

The end of the line.
 

Not that I want to belittle the effect that Ms Parks action had on the
Civil Rights movement, but I seem to recall an interview with her,
before she achieved media celebrity status, where the interviewer asked
he why she refused to give up her seat. He answer was that it was
because she had just finished a long day at work and she was very tired,
and her feet hurt. She just wanted to sit and relax, and she was, after
all, in the black section of the bus seating arrangement. But, from
little unintended sparks do great fires begin.

--
B²

The end of the line.
 

"Brian Baldwin" wrote in message
...
Not that I want to belittle the effect that Ms Parks action had on the
Civil Rights movement, but I seem to recall an interview with her,
before she achieved media celebrity status, where the interviewer asked
he why she refused to give up her seat. He answer was that it was
because she had just finished a long day at work and she was very tired,
and her feet hurt. She just wanted to sit and relax, and she was, after
all, in the black section of the bus seating arrangement. But, from
little unintended sparks do great fires begin.

--
B²

As I seem now to be the
asshole-rascist-in-charge-of-trying-to-get-things-historically-accurate, I
will point out that the actual quote from her autobio, _My Story_ is that
she was "tired of giving in", not physically tired.

Dan

The end of the line.
 

Daniel-San typed:
"Tim J." wrote ...
Daniel-San typed:
snip
The NAACP used her case as a rallying point. They had been prepared
to use other cases before
Parks', but did not for one reason or another (one was a 15 year old
girl -- looked good until she turned out to be pregnant). Parks
being a woman of nearly impeccable charcter made for a good rallying
point.

Kinda like a galvanizing moment, wot?

That's all I'm saying. Sure, absolutely she was a great human being.
As I said before, worthy of the praise she received. But if you ask
'joe on the street' who she was, you'll get an answer along the
lines of "she started the civil rights movement." That is BS.

I'm not sure of these Joes of which you speak, but anyone with a
brief study of the civil rights movement knows she didn't start it.
She sure did make people focus on it.

The same "Joes" that would answer "What caused the Civil War?" with
"slavery". Absolutely it was a factor, but it was not the cause.

I don't think it was even much of a factor.

She
did not make people focus on it, the NAACP did when they took her
case. She was a good, decent person who took a personal stand.

Kinda like a galvanizing moment, wot?

As Dr.
King said: "Mrs. Parks' arrest was the precipitating factor rather
than the cause of the protest."

Kinda like a galvanizing moment, wot?

" The cause lay deep in the record of
similar injustices...Actually no one can understand the action of
Mrs. Parks unless he realizes that eventually the cup of endurance
runs over, and the human personality cries out, 'I can take it no
longer.'"

Kinda like a galvanizing moment, wot?

quick quote from Wikipedia... don't have my copy handy
for page, etc.
That's all I'm sayin'. Great person. Great action. Used by others as a
rallying-cry.

Kinda like a galvanizing moment, wot?
--
TL,
Tim
(Whew! Now I'm dizzy %-( )
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

The end of the line.
 

"Daniel-San" wrote

If my comments were taken as degrading her, I chose my words poorly.

well, thanks for the clarification.

wayno

The end of the line.
 

"Daniel-San" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
As I seem now to be the
asshole-rascist-in-charge-of-trying-to-get-things-historically-accurate, I
will point out that the actual quote from her autobio, _My Story_ is that
she was "tired of giving in", not physically tired.

Dan

These things tend to get very heated.

The lady made a personal stand, for whatever reasons, and this was later
used to very good effect by the civil rights movement. It is certain that
the lady did not know that her personal stand would be used in such a
manner, which in no way belittles the stand itself.

You are quite right. Others made personal stands, and they were not
publicised.

Any choice of words which might be construed as criticism of such an event,
or the person involved in it, is dangerous in the extreme.

I was not criticising you, or trying to imply in any way that you are
racist.

TL
MC

The end of the line.
 

"Tim J." wrote in message
...
Daniel-San typed:
"Tim J." wrote ...
Daniel-San typed:
snip
The NAACP used her case as a rallying point. They had been prepared
to use other cases before
Parks', but did not for one reason or another (one was a 15 year old
girl -- looked good until she turned out to be pregnant). Parks
being a woman of nearly impeccable charcter made for a good rallying
point.

Kinda like a galvanizing moment, wot?

That's all I'm saying. Sure, absolutely she was a great human being.
As I said before, worthy of the praise she received. But if you ask
'joe on the street' who she was, you'll get an answer along the
lines of "she started the civil rights movement." That is BS.

I'm not sure of these Joes of which you speak, but anyone with a
brief study of the civil rights movement knows she didn't start it.
She sure did make people focus on it.

The same "Joes" that would answer "What caused the Civil War?" with
"slavery". Absolutely it was a factor, but it was not the cause.

I don't think it was even much of a factor.

But I'd be very willing to bet that the average American that has only been
taught the pageantry of history in their classes would.


She
did not make people focus on it, the NAACP did when they took her
case. She was a good, decent person who took a personal stand.

Kinda like a galvanizing moment, wot?

As Dr.
King said: "Mrs. Parks' arrest was the precipitating factor rather
than the cause of the protest."

Kinda like a galvanizing moment, wot?

" The cause lay deep in the record of
similar injustices...Actually no one can understand the action of
Mrs. Parks unless he realizes that eventually the cup of endurance
runs over, and the human personality cries out, 'I can take it no
longer.'"

Kinda like a galvanizing moment, wot?

quick quote from Wikipedia... don't have my copy handy
for page, etc.
That's all I'm sayin'. Great person. Great action. Used by others as a
rallying-cry.

Kinda like a galvanizing moment, wot?

The original post to which I replied (before I got dizzy and went from
rampant liberal to rascist 'white'....) stated "Absolutely magnificent what
a single determined person can achieve."

IMO, absolutely magnificent what a well organized group can acheive when
given the right rallying point.

Parks was not the first to refuse to give up her seat. She was the right
person at the right time for the movement.

Dan

--
TL,
Tim
(Whew! Now I'm dizzy %-( )
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

The end of the line.
 

Tim J. wrote:
Daniel-San typed:
...
The same "Joes" that would answer "What caused the Civil War?" with
"slavery". Absolutely it was a factor, but it was not the cause.

I don't think it was even much of a factor.

Slavery wasn't much of a factor in the US Civil War ?

I am definitely due a refund from the University of Illinois.

--
Ken Fortenberry

The end of the line.
 

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"Daniel-San" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP



It is certain that the lady did not know that her personal stand would be
used in such a manner, which in no way belittles the stand itself.

Thank you for finding a way to say what I have been trying to say. I guess
my wordsmithing is rusty.



You are quite right. Others made personal stands, and they were not
publicised.

Any choice of words which might be construed as criticism of such an
event, or the person involved in it, is dangerous in the extreme.

Apparently.


I was not criticising you, or trying to imply in any way that you are
racist.


Thank you. While you and I will probably not meet, if we do, you will find
me to be about as anti-rascist as it gets. My undergrad (and upcoming grad
school) is centered around immigration and civil rights in the 20th century.
Maybe I should have said something alon those lines in my 1st post...

TL
MC


Dan

The end of the line.
 

Daniel-San typed:
"Tim J." wrote in message
...
Daniel-San typed:
"Tim J." wrote ...
Daniel-San typed:
snip
The NAACP used her case as a rallying point. They had been
prepared to use other cases before
Parks', but did not for one reason or another (one was a 15 year
old girl -- looked good until she turned out to be pregnant).
Parks being a woman of nearly impeccable charcter made for a good
rallying point.

Kinda like a galvanizing moment, wot?

That's all I'm saying. Sure, absolutely she was a great human
being. As I said before, worthy of the praise she received. But
if you ask 'joe on the street' who she was, you'll get an answer
along the lines of "she started the civil rights movement." That
is BS.

I'm not sure of these Joes of which you speak, but anyone with a
brief study of the civil rights movement knows she didn't start it.
She sure did make people focus on it.

The same "Joes" that would answer "What caused the Civil War?" with
"slavery". Absolutely it was a factor, but it was not the cause.

I don't think it was even much of a factor.

But I'd be very willing to bet that the average American that has
only been taught the pageantry of history in their classes would.

The average American (me) was taught differently. Some pay attention in
class, some don't. I think the ones that don't are named "Joe." :)

snip

The original post to which I replied (before I got dizzy and went from
rampant liberal to rascist 'white'....) stated "Absolutely
magnificent what a single determined person can achieve."

Well, *there's* yer problem. Freakin' liberals. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

The end of the line.
 

Ken Fortenberry typed:
Tim J. wrote:
Daniel-San typed:
...
The same "Joes" that would answer "What caused the Civil War?" with
"slavery". Absolutely it was a factor, but it was not the cause.

I don't think it was even much of a factor.

Slavery wasn't much of a factor in the US Civil War ?

I am definitely due a refund from the University of Illinois.

I could have told you that without discussing the Civil War. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

The end of the line.
 

"Daniel-San" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
.. .

SNIP
Thank you. While you and I will probably not meet,

More´s the pity.

if we do, you will find
me to be about as anti-rascist as it gets. My undergrad (and upcoming grad
school) is centered around immigration and civil rights in the 20th
century. Maybe I should have said something alon those lines in my 1st
post...


I don´t think anybody here seriously considers you to be racist. Quite a few
just love jumping down somebody´s throat, if that person makes even a slight
mistake or perceived error of judgement.

The whole issue is extremely sensitive, and anything you say may be easily
misinterpreted, misconstrued, intentionally or otherwise, and generally
twisted to your severe disadvantage, etc. etc. Probably why discussing
politics and similar subjects on here is such a bad idea.

So, I will take my own implied advice, and return to lurking mode.

TL
MC

The end of the line.
 

Tim J. wrote:
Daniel-San typed:

The same "Joes" that would answer "What caused the Civil War?" with
"slavery". Absolutely it was a factor, but it was not the cause.


I don't think it was even much of a factor.

That's an absolute howler. Slavery was overwhelmingly the primary cause
of the Civil War.

I was fed the usual propaganda in school that it wasn't really about
slavery, that is was about states' rights. I later learned, after
educating myself in American history, that this is a rationalization
intended to avoid, ignore, and gloss over the country's racist slave
holding past. If the Civil War was about states' rights, it was about
the rights of states to practice slavery.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

The end of the line.
 

Tim J. wrote:
Ken Fortenberry typed:
Tim J. wrote:
Daniel-San typed:
...
The same "Joes" that would answer "What caused the Civil War?" with
"slavery". Absolutely it was a factor, but it was not the cause.

I don't think it was even much of a factor.

Slavery wasn't much of a factor in the US Civil War ?

I am definitely due a refund from the University of Illinois.


I could have told you that without discussing the Civil War. ;-)

Saying slavery wasn't the cause of the Civil War is just
floundering about trying to find an excuse to ignore the
elephant in the living room. Of course slavery was the
cause of the Civil War, I know that and my name ain't Joe.

--
Ken Fortenberry

The end of the line.
 

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"Daniel-San" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
.. .

SNIP
Thank you. While you and I will probably not meet,

More´s the pity.

True... Too bad Germany's not on the to-do list anytime soon.


if we do, you will find
me to be about as anti-rascist as it gets. My undergrad (and upcoming
grad school) is centered around immigration and civil rights in the 20th
century. Maybe I should have said something alon those lines in my 1st
post...


I don´t think anybody here seriously considers you to be racist. Quite a
few just love jumping down somebody´s throat, if that person makes even a
slight mistake or perceived error of judgement.


I think this may be the forst time I joined a 'politcal' thread. I usually
lurk through them. I was surprised to find Fortenberry (with whom I agree on
most things political, even if I don't post to that effect) jumping my back.
What I don't get is how trying to point out that what most folks are taught
is not the whole story is a 'mistake'. Perhaps the 'ocassion of her death'
is not the most opportune time, but when else is Rosa Parks gonna come up in
ROFF? Maybe I should just keep my yap shut, so to speak.


The whole issue is extremely sensitive, and anything you say may be easily
misinterpreted, misconstrued, intentionally or otherwise, and generally
twisted to your severe disadvantage, etc. etc. Probably why discussing
politics and similar subjects on here is such a bad idea.

I guess I don't know why it's sensitive. I could see affirmative action or
abortion as being sensitive issues (among others, or course), but the
details of an historical event?

Hell, I don't get it.


So, I will take my own implied advice, and return to lurking mode.

TL
MC


Dan

The end of the line.
 

Daniel-San wrote:
...
I think this may be the forst time I joined a 'politcal' thread. I usually
lurk through them. I was surprised to find Fortenberry (with whom I agree on
most things political, even if I don't post to that effect) jumping my back.
snip

I didn't mean to "jump your back." I just took a stab at
explaining why your comments raised the hackles of my friend
in the Old North State. I mean you *did* ask.

--
Ken Fortenberry

The end of the line.
 

rw typed:
Tim J. wrote:
Daniel-San typed:

The same "Joes" that would answer "What caused the Civil War?" with
"slavery". Absolutely it was a factor, but it was not the cause.

I don't think it was even much of a factor.

That's an absolute howler. Slavery was overwhelmingly the primary
cause of the Civil War.

I was fed the usual propaganda in school that it wasn't really about
slavery, that is was about states' rights. I later learned, after
educating myself in American history, that this is a rationalization
intended to avoid, ignore, and gloss over the country's racist slave
holding past. If the Civil War was about states' rights, it was about
the rights of states to practice slavery.

.. . .which all boiled down to economics and profits. Did slavery play a
part? Absolutely. Was the war about slavery and the rights of oppressed
black men and women? Nope (and that's my point.) Was it about slavery as a
means to profit? Yes. Certainly there were those concerned with the
aberration of slavery, but the predominant factors were financial
considerations.

.. . .and what is it with Ken and this elephant?
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

The end of the line.
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote ...
Daniel-San wrote:
... I think this may be the forst time I joined a 'politcal' thread. I
usually lurk through them. I was surprised to find Fortenberry (with whom
I agree on most things political, even if I don't post to that effect)
jumping my back. snip

I didn't mean to "jump your back." I just took a stab at
explaining why your comments raised the hackles of my friend
in the Old North State.

I mean you *did* ask.


Touche, I s'pose...

--
Ken Fortenberry



Well, then I guess I don't know why anything I said raised anyone's hackles.
I didn't slander Mrs. Parks. I did not belittle her actions. My comments
were only meant to point out that while she is ...


Ahhh, **** it. I got flies to tye.


Dan
The Upper Manistee calls this weekend. No goddamned politics.

The end of the line.
 

Daniel-San typed:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote ...
Daniel-San wrote:
... I think this may be the forst time I joined a 'politcal'
thread. I usually lurk through them. I was surprised to find
Fortenberry (with whom I agree on most things political, even if I
don't post to that effect) jumping my back. snip

I didn't mean to "jump your back." I just took a stab at
explaining why your comments raised the hackles of my friend
in the Old North State.

I mean you *did* ask.


Touche, I s'pose...

--
Ken Fortenberry



Well, then I guess I don't know why anything I said raised anyone's
hackles. I didn't slander Mrs. Parks. I did not belittle her actions.
My comments were only meant to point out that while she is ...


Ahhh, **** it. I got flies to tye.

Don't worry, Dan. I'll stay here and shoulder the racist slurs. It appears
I've shifted the focus of their gun sights - RUN!
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

The end of the line.
 

"Tim J." wrote in message ...
Daniel-San typed:


snipola

Ahhh, **** it. I got flies to tye.

Don't worry, Dan. I'll stay here and shoulder the racist slurs. It appears
I've shifted the focus of their gun sights - RUN!

Enjoy...

My Civil War knowledge is slightly more than cursory, so I'll stay outta
that one.

Dan
Prepping for the next swap... maybe a para-Adams....


--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

The end of the line.
 

"Daniel-San" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
. ..
SNIP
I guess I don't know why it's sensitive.

It is rare that even those who may be aware of the details, or the "whole
picture", interpret it in the same manner. Most don´t even know the details,
and would not care if they did.

Obviously, there are more than a few people here with very strong
convictions. This tends to make them somewhat oversensitive to perceived
encroachment on, or diversion from, their own highly regarded precepts.

There is nothing wrong with that in principle, one must have the courage of
one´s convictions, they are otherwise worthless, but it makes even casual
conversation about many things extremely difficult.

Nevertheless, it is progress.

Saying some things at certain places, at certain times, would have gotten
you lynched.

I am rather surprised that you fail to see the extreme sensitivity of such a
subject. Especially in the light of your tenure on ROFF, and your
presumably inherent knowledge of your fellow countrymen.

My apologies, as it seems my original comment, and your reply thereto, more
or less started the landslide.

There is no knowing what even a perfectly innocent comment will break loose
on here. Often makes it difficult, or even quite impossible to converse at
all.

One is already choking, before one realises how far down the throat one´s
foot has managed to ingress.

TL
MC

The end of the line.
 

Daniel-San typed:
"Tim J." wrote in message ...
Daniel-San typed:


snipola

Ahhh, **** it. I got flies to tye.

Don't worry, Dan. I'll stay here and shoulder the racist slurs. It
appears I've shifted the focus of their gun sights - RUN!

Enjoy...

My Civil War knowledge is slightly more than cursory, so I'll stay
outta that one.

C'mon - give it to us! This could be a galvanizing moment. . .

Dan
Prepping for the next swap... maybe a para-Adams....

Para-Adams are one of my favorites. If you need a tester. . . ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

The end of the line.
 

Daniel-San wrote:

"Brian Baldwin" wrote in message
...
Not that I want to belittle the effect that Ms Parks action had on the
Civil Rights movement, but I seem to recall an interview with her,
before she achieved media celebrity status, where the interviewer asked
he why she refused to give up her seat. He answer was that it was
because she had just finished a long day at work and she was very tired,
and her feet hurt. She just wanted to sit and relax, and she was, after
all, in the black section of the bus seating arrangement. But, from
little unintended sparks do great fires begin.



I stand corrected.

Getting it right historically dosen't make you the asshole racist. But
it does seem to make you politically incorrect.

--
B²

The end of the line.
 

"Mike Connor" wrote...

"Daniel-San" ...
SNIP
I guess I don't know why it's sensitive.

It is rare that even those who may be aware of the details, or the "whole
picture", interpret it in the same manner. Most don´t even know the
details, and would not care if they did.

Obviously, there are more than a few people here with very strong
convictions. This tends to make them somewhat oversensitive to perceived
encroachment on, or diversion from, their own highly regarded precepts.

There is nothing wrong with that in principle, one must have the courage
of one´s convictions, they are otherwise worthless, but it makes even
casual conversation about many things extremely difficult.

Absolutely agreed. My best friend's wife and I have simply agreed not to
discuss politics, ever. It gets ugly when she starts calling me 'stupid' for
my beliefs.


Nevertheless, it is progress.

Saying some things at certain places, at certain times, would have gotten
you lynched.

Very true. Even not saying certain things at certain times could have the
same result.


I am rather surprised that you fail to see the extreme sensitivity of such
a subject. Especially in the light of your tenure on ROFF,

Well, me thinks you may give to much credit in the time-served department. I
guess I've been casually posting for about a year or so, but to say I'm
involved is a recent development, if at all.

and your presumably inherent knowledge of your fellow countrymen.

I've long ago given up in trying to figure out what motivates my fellow
countrymen.


My apologies, as it seems my original comment, and your reply thereto,
more or less started the landslide.

No apologies required.


There is no knowing what even a perfectly innocent comment will break
loose on here. Often makes it difficult, or even quite impossible to
converse at all.

Yes, that is very true. I s'pose that is what gives ROFF it's 'character'.
;-)


One is already choking, before one realises how far down the throat one´s
foot has managed to ingress.


Well said.


TL
MC


Dan

The end of the line.
 

"Tim J." wrote in message
...
Daniel-San typed:
"Tim J." wrote in message ...
Daniel-San typed:


snipola

Ahhh, **** it. I got flies to tye.

Don't worry, Dan. I'll stay here and shoulder the racist slurs. It
appears I've shifted the focus of their gun sights - RUN!

Enjoy...

My Civil War knowledge is slightly more than cursory, so I'll stay
outta that one.

C'mon - give it to us! This could be a galvanizing moment. . .

I'm tired and don't have the comment I wish I had for this line.


Dan
Prepping for the next swap... maybe a para-Adams....

Para-Adams are one of my favorites. If you need a tester. . . ;-)

I've been tying them with orange EP fibers as the post. Will let you know
how they work next week. Fishing Fri, Sat, and Sun AM. Home to see SWMBO off
to the airport. Fishing Tues, Wed, and Thurs. Good week coming.

I'll send you yours galvanized.

Dan
Where's that damned zinc, anyway....


--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/