Salt Water casting
 

Warm late fall weather is providing lots of redfish in local N. C.. waters

after a successful trip to Harkers Island for False Albacore last week I am
now back in Wilmington fishing daily for reds in creeks flowing into the
inland waterway.Younger fish (puppy drum } and good size seniors are easy to
catch with spinning tackle after you locate them but I am having real
trouble using a fly rod. Casting a nine weight while standing is real work
but as I fish sitting in a kayak my efforts are really sorry.
Yesterday I was trying to cast a crease (?) lure into a good size pod of
fist and caught my hat [twice], and the water behind me on most casts.

Anyone with casting procedure suggestions please offer them---when that
tangle of fly, leader and line come flying by it is really frightening.
them hooks are really BIG and I still have memories of catching my tongue
one day with a size 16 humpy while mountain fishing with Daniel and Jeff
Miller.
Daniel please send me your snail address.
Joseph

Salt Water casting
 

Joe: The guys I know that use a fly rod in salt water either learn to
toss a fly about twice as far as I do, or they give it up. If you are
going to try that with a Clouser, buy a good motorcycle helmet to wear
while you are learning.

Big Dale

Salt Water casting
 

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:45:58 GMT, "Joe McIntosh"
wrote:

Warm late fall weather is providing lots of redfish in local N. C.. waters

after a successful trip to Harkers Island for False Albacore last week I am
now back in Wilmington fishing daily for reds in creeks flowing into the
inland waterway.Younger fish (puppy drum } and good size seniors are easy to
catch with spinning tackle after you locate them but I am having real
trouble using a fly rod. Casting a nine weight while standing is real work
but as I fish sitting in a kayak my efforts are really sorry.
Yesterday I was trying to cast a crease (?) lure into a good size pod of
fist and caught my hat [twice], and the water behind me on most casts.

Anyone with casting procedure suggestions please offer them---when that
tangle of fly, leader and line come flying by it is really frightening.
them hooks are really BIG and I still have memories of catching my tongue
one day with a size 16 humpy while mountain fishing with Daniel and Jeff
Miller.
Daniel please send me your snail address.
Joseph

Without seeing your casts, it is kinda hard to offer suggestions, but
I'd make a guess based on your comments (making particular mention of
tackle weight and a tangle flying by) that you have one or more of
several issues you are introducing into the mix because of the
perception of the larger tackle: the wrong casting angle, timing, or
power.

Are you able to cast OK from the kayak with lighter tackle? If so, then
your issue(s) are probably a perceived need to "really work" because of
the larger tackle. Perhaps taking out several rods of 4 to 9 wt.,
starting practice with the lighter gear and fairly rapidly working your
way up the weights might impress on your body memory that the mechanics
are the same.

IAC, you might snip a few of the larger flies' hooks off at the
shank/bend junction to make practice whiffs, and then, well, practice
with them.

TC,
R

Salt Water casting
 

Joe McIntosh wrote:
Warm late fall weather is providing lots of redfish in local N. C.. waters

....... but I am having real
trouble using a fly rod. Casting a nine weight while standing is real work
but as I fish sitting in a kayak my efforts are really sorry.
...........
Anyone with casting procedure suggestions please offer them......

I won't tempt the gods of irony by giving any casting advice (g).....

Maybe you could try either:

- a seven- or eight-weight with smaller flies (I used to do most of my
redfishing at Cedar FL with #2-#4 deceivers and #4-#6 bonefishy shrimp
and crab patterns).

- if you can't find a boat you can stand up in, just throw in the towel
and fish with spinning gear. Personally, I hate fly fishing from a
seated position. If I can't stand, either wading or in a boat, I'd
rather switch gear. Fishing is more fun when it's fun. :-)

Got any good redfish recipes to share? Excellent eating fish.... I miss
'em a lot.....

Salt Water casting
 

Joe McIntosh wrote:
Warm late fall weather is providing lots of redfish in local N. C.. waters

after a successful trip to Harkers Island for False Albacore last week I am
now back in Wilmington fishing daily for reds in creeks flowing into the
inland waterway.Younger fish (puppy drum } and good size seniors are easy to
catch with spinning tackle after you locate them but I am having real
trouble using a fly rod. Casting a nine weight while standing is real work
but as I fish sitting in a kayak my efforts are really sorry.
Yesterday I was trying to cast a crease (?) lure into a good size pod of
fist and caught my hat [twice], and the water behind me on most casts.

Anyone with casting procedure suggestions please offer them---when that
tangle of fly, leader and line come flying by it is really frightening.
them hooks are really BIG and I still have memories of catching my tongue
one day with a size 16 humpy while mountain fishing with Daniel and Jeff
Miller.

Casting a nine-weight and a heavy fly for distance isn't pretty,
especially in the wind, and even more especially in a kayak in the wind.
The kayak puts you lower above the water surface, so you can't get as
much distance as when shallow wading or when casting from a real boat
while standing.

Forget about pretty casts. Try using the water to load the road. Throw
the fly behind you into the water, then use the water loading to send
out more line on the forward cast. You can do this several times,
finally shooting line on a forward cast to your target.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Salt Water casting
 

"Joe McIntosh" wrote

them hooks are really BIG and I still have memories of catching my
tongue
one day

Disclaimer: I am FAR from a good caster.

I do a little Striper fishing with big flies from a kickboat or even a float
tube and this helped me. Assuming you are using shooting heads, get one a
couple sizes too heavy for your rod ( I got 10s for an 8 rod ). Now, rig
it all up with a short leader and fly like you want to use on your rod.
Next work out some line and keep varying the amount in the air until it
'feels right' to you, i.e. you think the rod loads well and should shoot
well with a haul and throw ( no need to actually 'cast' you only want the
rod feeling good with the amount of line out, ready to shoot ). CAREFULLY
mark the amount of line OUT of the tip and then cut it back to that length,
re-rig and go fishing. You end up with a shorter line to keep in the air
but one that still works the rod and shoots well. I've also found that
timing is the key, the casts that shoot like a rocket and threaten to jank
the rod out of your hand as all the loose shooting line is used up are not
the "big muscle" efforts, rather the ones that get the haul at the right
split second .... about one cast in 43, for me ..... the haul to the rear is
also very important.

Salt Water casting
 

Read these;

http://www.danblanton.com/casting.html

http://www.flyfishinsalt.com/article.jsp?ID=37585

http://www.activeangler.com/articles...air/lines4.asp

TL
MC

Salt Water casting
 

Joe McIntosh wrote:
and I still have memories of catching my tongue
one day with a size 16 humpy while mountain fishing with Daniel and Jeff
Miller.
Daniel please send me your snail address.
Joseph

Now that's a funny mental image!..........I wonder, is tongue a good
fighter?

RW makes a good point about using the water to load the rod. As long as
the fish aren't spooked by it, give it a try. With the water loading a
9wt., weight forward line, you should be able to shoot a reasonable
amount of line. It's not pretty, but it should give you desirable
results. For topwater bugs, that Crease Fly should be one of the easier
ones to cast.

brians

Salt Water casting
 

rw wrote:

Joe McIntosh wrote:

Warm late fall weather is providing lots of redfish in local N. C..
waters

after a successful trip to Harkers Island for False Albacore last week
I am now back in Wilmington fishing daily for reds in creeks flowing
into the inland waterway.Younger fish (puppy drum } and good size
seniors are easy to catch with spinning tackle after you locate them
but I am having real trouble using a fly rod. Casting a nine weight
while standing is real work but as I fish sitting in a kayak my
efforts are really sorry.
Yesterday I was trying to cast a crease (?) lure into a good size pod
of fist and caught my hat [twice], and the water behind me on most
casts.

Anyone with casting procedure suggestions please offer them---when
that tangle of fly, leader and line come flying by it is really
frightening.
them hooks are really BIG and I still have memories of catching my
tongue one day with a size 16 humpy while mountain fishing with Daniel
and Jeff Miller.


Casting a nine-weight and a heavy fly for distance isn't pretty,
especially in the wind, and even more especially in a kayak in the wind.
The kayak puts you lower above the water surface, so you can't get as
much distance as when shallow wading or when casting from a real boat
while standing.

Forget about pretty casts. Try using the water to load the road. Throw
the fly behind you into the water, then use the water loading to send
out more line on the forward cast. You can do this several times,
finally shooting line on a forward cast to your target.


or...get the line moving off the water, and throw the backcast straight
up...or as straight up as possible...it aint pretty, but it seems to
work. of course, i'm partial to light weight spinning gear for such
pursuits. cookin redfish... filet and leave skin & scales on one side
of filet, put skin side down on charcoal grill, dollop the meat with
your favorite seasonings while grilling. it's as good as any fish you'd
care to eat, and better than most...

Salt Water casting
 

briansfly wrote:

Joe McIntosh wrote:

and I still have memories of catching my tongue one day with a size
16 humpy while mountain fishing with Daniel and Jeff Miller.
Daniel please send me your snail address.
Joseph


Now that's a funny mental image!..........I wonder, is tongue a good
fighter?



it was most humorous...and i think joe laughed about it more and louder
than the rest of us present at the time. (he also caught the most fish
though) it did make his diphthongs quite unique ...

Salt Water casting
 

you've got some good links and tips but a question, what type of line
are you using?
how long a leader? if you're fishing in clear water for spooky fish,
and if you are then
using a long leader (longer than 7 ft) than you really need to make
sure it is
tied right (stiff butt and good transition to the tippet), and matched
to your fly, in
order to turn over the fly properly. However, for a crease fly, I'm
guessing you're using a floating line? The problem with crease flies is
usually their wind resistance (that and they often spin too dang
much...)

what I've found is that I try to cast much to quickly, not allowing the
rod to bend (load)
properly on the backcast, especially when I get tired, and I don't get
enough line
speed . Then it's a real, and dangerous, mess on the forward cast.

re-reading your post, catching the water behind you makes me think that
you're just not stopping your rod properly and as others have written,
diagnosing
a bad cast is tough without seeing you in action.

however, my gut says you need some work on mechanics: double hauling
etc, to
get the line speed up properly, then you won't have problems with the
tailing loop
on the forward cast.

lastly, as a veteran lip-hooker myself, and as you doubtless are awa
go barbless!
to avoid unnecessary danger at night, I really open up my cast and
have a modified stroke (based on a suggestion from a fried) that keeps
that barb far away from me on the foward cast. It sacrifices some
distance, but the thought of another trip to the emergency room sort of
eases the pain.

-- Rob

Salt Water casting
 

Jeff Miller wrote:
rw wrote:

Casting a nine-weight and a heavy fly for distance isn't pretty,
especially in the wind, and even more especially in a kayak in the
wind. The kayak puts you lower above the water surface, so you can't
get as much distance as when shallow wading or when casting from a
real boat while standing.

Forget about pretty casts. Try using the water to load the road. Throw
the fly behind you into the water, then use the water loading to send
out more line on the forward cast. You can do this several times,
finally shooting line on a forward cast to your target.


or...get the line moving off the water, and throw the backcast straight
up...or as straight up as possible...it aint pretty, but it seems to
work.

If it's windy and you're throwing a heavy fly, that's likely to lead to
problems, and possibly to piercing of tongues and other fleshy appendages.

The best sal****er casters I've seen use a quite different techniques
from classic light-gear flycasting. They tend to cast more side-arm and
to haul and shoot like crazy. The backcast is nearly always
unobstructed, delicacy of presentation is often not as important as
distance, and the most serious problem is often the wind.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Salt Water casting
 

rw wrote:

Jeff Miller wrote:

rw wrote:


Casting a nine-weight and a heavy fly for distance isn't pretty,
especially in the wind, and even more especially in a kayak in the
wind. The kayak puts you lower above the water surface, so you can't
get as much distance as when shallow wading or when casting from a
real boat while standing.

Forget about pretty casts. Try using the water to load the road.
Throw the fly behind you into the water, then use the water loading
to send out more line on the forward cast. You can do this several
times, finally shooting line on a forward cast to your target.


or...get the line moving off the water, and throw the backcast
straight up...or as straight up as possible...it aint pretty, but it
seems to work.


If it's windy and you're throwing a heavy fly, that's likely to lead to
problems, and possibly to piercing of tongues and other fleshy appendages.

The best sal****er casters I've seen use a quite different techniques
from classic light-gear flycasting. They tend to cast more side-arm and
to haul and shoot like crazy. The backcast is nearly always
unobstructed, delicacy of presentation is often not as important as
distance, and the most serious problem is often the wind.


if you're sitting in a kayak, it shouldn't be a problem. if you're
standing up in a boat, it might be. i've done it in a lot of different
conditions with no problem. but, hell, i admit i know less than
jack**** about casting form.

double hauling is the surest method...but, with my talent, that'd be
sure to get a hook in me.

jeff

Salt Water casting
 

"Jeff Miller" wrote

double hauling is the surest method...but, with my talent, that'd be sure
to get a hook in me.

the only time i have ever needed to double haul is when i went to the
liquor store, bought only a fifth of vodka, and then was faced with a visit
from pj roberts.

yfitp
wayno(i bet you know what i mean...)

Salt Water casting
 

Wayne Harrison wrote:


yfitp
wayno(i bet you know what i mean...)



indeed... hell, i've even done the triple haul with the blue-eyed devil,
but quite poorly based upon reports of eyewitnesses.

jeff

Salt Water casting Part two
 

"Jeff Miller"

Casting a nine-weight and a heavy fly for distance isn't pretty,
especially in the wind, and even more especially in a kayak in the
wind. The kayak puts you lower above the water surface, so you can't
get as much distance as when shallow wading or when casting from a real
boat while standing.

Indian Joe actualizes- thanks all for casting suggestions--took my kayak
out this AM and could not find Red Fish so decided to try your suggested
methods of casting a nine weight fly rod while seated in a kayak and came to
a probable solution - either get out of the kayak and stand in water--use a
six weight and hope you don't catch a big fish--or toss your fly as far as
you can then paddle in a circle around fish and hope one of them becomes
hungry.

So i pulled over in weeds-had a beer- put a 3" shrimp gulp plastic lure {
outfishes live bait,dispenses scent and flavor better than live bait,more
exciting action and colors than live bait ,100% natural ingredients } on the
end of my spinning line and fished my way home.

Scored a grand slam plus one !!! A small flounder in the hole under a
dock-a trout in the middle of the creek- a small puppy drum off some
oyster shells- and just as I arrived at dock a bluefish in the inland
waterway joined the party.

Headed for mountains next weekend and plan to spend my 75th birthday
climbing rocks and fishing a small stream just east of
Ashville --sure hope each of you are enjoying life as much as this elderly
citizen.
Joe

Salt Water casting Part two
 

In article ,
says...


Indian Joe actualizes

Sorry, but I just wanted to see that phrase again.

Kevin

--
reply to:
kevin dot vang at minotstateu dot edu

Salt Water casting
 

JR wrote:
Joe McIntosh wrote:
Warm late fall weather is providing lots of redfish in local N. C.. waters

....... but I am having real
trouble using a fly rod. Casting a nine weight while standing is real work
but as I fish sitting in a kayak my efforts are really sorry.
...........
Anyone with casting procedure suggestions please offer them......

I won't tempt the gods of irony by giving any casting advice (g).....

Maybe you could try either:

- a seven- or eight-weight with smaller flies (I used to do most of my
redfishing at Cedar FL with #2-#4 deceivers and #4-#6 bonefishy shrimp
and crab patterns).

- if you can't find a boat you can stand up in, just throw in the towel
and fish with spinning gear. Personally, I hate fly fishing from a
seated position. If I can't stand, either wading or in a boat, I'd
rather switch gear. Fishing is more fun when it's fun. :-)

Got any good redfish recipes to share? Excellent eating fish.... I miss
'em a lot.....

I have to admit I haven't watched Joe's casting, but usually this kind of stuff
comes when people think "back cast" instaed of "up cast" The backcast motion
is really up, and if you're sitting it's more important to think of it that
way. Stop the rod at vertical, or just a bit back of that. You'll need to
actually watch the rod to believe it's not stopping at the vertical. One
helper for this is putting your thumb forward on the handle, it helps prevent
the rod from wandering back on it's own.

I post this here because fly fishing is not hard from a sitting position, it's
easy. Don't give up on the fly just because you're sitting.

One time in Florida I was out with a guide in the Mangroves and the wind was
fierce. I didn't have a stripping basket, or bucket for the line, so I sat on
the deck with my legs out in a V. The line went into that V and stayed there
while I was stripping, then the casting worked fine. The guide was trying to
put a spining rod in my hand, but gave up when he saw I had a good solution.

Don't give up, practice a bit.

Chas
remove fly fish to e mail directly

Salt Water casting Part two
 

Joe McIntosh wrote:

Scored a grand slam plus one !!! A small flounder in the hole under a
dock-a trout in the middle of the creek- a small puppy drum off some
oyster shells- and just as I arrived at dock a bluefish in the inland
waterway joined the party.

Headed for mountains next weekend and plan to spend my 75th birthday
climbing rocks and fishing a small stream just east of
Ashville --sure hope each of you are enjoying life as much as this elderly
citizen.

Thanks for the report.

I refuse to believe, however, that you are that elderly. I've seen you
roaming around Montana and figure nothing short of a deal with the devil
will keep me in shape that good at the age of *60*.... much less 75.
Hope you have a happy birthday, Joe.

Salt Water casting Part two
 

JR wrote:

Joe McIntosh wrote:

Scored a grand slam plus one !!! A small flounder in the hole under
a dock-a trout in the middle of the creek- a small puppy drum off
some oyster shells- and just as I arrived at dock a bluefish in the
inland waterway joined the party.

Headed for mountains next weekend and plan to spend my 75th birthday
climbing rocks and fishing a small stream just east of
Ashville --sure hope each of you are enjoying life as much as this
elderly citizen.


Thanks for the report.

I refuse to believe, however, that you are that elderly. I've seen you
roaming around Montana and figure nothing short of a deal with the devil
will keep me in shape that good at the age of *60*.... much less 75.
Hope you have a happy birthday, Joe.





exactly! must be those manhattans... g happy birthday and counting
on many more.

jeff