Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Hi all!

My current rain jacket is starting to be in a pretty bad shape and it
also takes a lot of space, so I need a new one. Since I often travel
light (with just a relatively small backpack), I have been thinking
that maybe the best option for me would be to get what I think is
traditionally called a shell jacket: a rain coat with very little
functionality that fits into a small space (no pockets or other gizmos
ala wading jackets).

I have Simms waders and boots, and I've found them to be pretty good
buys. So I took a look at what Simms has to offer, and found their
Paclite series: a jacket and a pullover. I am going to visit Canada
(BC) in December and thought of buying the jacket there. I contacted a
local shop and they told me that all they have available is the
pullover. So that's my strongest option right now.

However, since I have no personal experience on these products, it
would be valuable to hear from those who have used them. The criteria
that I have for the jacket are as follows: it should fit into a small
space, be breathable and durable, and have camouflage coloring (not,
say, bright red). I guess that's about it. Any personal info on the
Simms jackets or competing products would be much appreciated. Thanks.

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...

Hi all!

My current rain jacket is starting to be in a pretty bad shape and it
also takes a lot of space, so I need a new one. Since I often travel
light (with just a relatively small backpack), I have been thinking
that maybe the best option for me would be to get what I think is
traditionally called a shell jacket: a rain coat with very little
functionality that fits into a small space (no pockets or other gizmos
ala wading jackets).

I have Simms waders and boots, and I've found them to be pretty good
buys. So I took a look at what Simms has to offer, and found their
Paclite series: a jacket and a pullover. I am going to visit Canada
(BC) in December and thought of buying the jacket there. I contacted a
local shop and they told me that all they have available is the
pullover. So that's my strongest option right now.

However, since I have no personal experience on these products, it
would be valuable to hear from those who have used them. The criteria
that I have for the jacket are as follows: it should fit into a small
space, be breathable and durable, and have camouflage coloring (not,
say, bright red). I guess that's about it. Any personal info on the
Simms jackets or competing products would be much appreciated. Thanks.

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

You might take a look at frog togs.com

john

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Jarmo Hurri wrote:
Hi all!

My current rain jacket is starting to be in a pretty bad shape and it
also takes a lot of space, so I need a new one.
snip
However, since I have no personal experience on these products, it
would be valuable to hear from those who have used them. The criteria
that I have for the jacket are as follows: it should fit into a small
space, be breathable and durable, and have camouflage coloring (not,
say, bright red). I guess that's about it. Any personal info on the
Simms jackets or competing products would be much appreciated. Thanks.

In addition to your criteria I want a rain jacket to have
pit zips, (I sweat a lot), a hood that is comfortable when
I wear it and rolls out of the way when I want to wear a
rain hat, and most important to me elastic *and* velcro
at the wrists, I cannot stand to have water running up my
arm every time I lift a canoe paddle out of the water.

The best rain jackets I've ever found is Marmot and I highly
recommend them.

http://www.marmot.com/products/subca...loth&subcat=34

--
Ken Fortenberry

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

"Jarmo Hurri" wrote...

Hi all!

My current rain jacket is starting to be in a pretty bad shape and it
also takes a lot of space, so I need a new one. Since I often travel
light (with just a relatively small backpack), I have been thinking
that maybe the best option for me would be to get what I think is
traditionally called a shell jacket: a rain coat with very little
functionality that fits into a small space (no pockets or other gizmos
ala wading jackets).

I have Simms waders and boots, and I've found them to be pretty good
buys. So I took a look at what Simms has to offer, and found their
Paclite series: a jacket and a pullover. I am going to visit Canada
(BC) in December and thought of buying the jacket there. I contacted a
local shop and they told me that all they have available is the
pullover. So that's my strongest option right now.

However, since I have no personal experience on these products, it
would be valuable to hear from those who have used them. The criteria
that I have for the jacket are as follows: it should fit into a small
space, be breathable and durable, and have camouflage coloring (not,
say, bright red). I guess that's about it. Any personal info on the
Simms jackets or competing products would be much appreciated. Thanks.

--
Jarmo Hurri


I've been a backpacker far longer than I've been a fly fisher, and have
found a couple things about lightweight rainwear to be true:

First, there is no such thing a 'breathable' -- just varying degrees of
sauna-like Hell. Marmot's Precip fabric and Mountain Hardwear's Conduit do a
pretty good job of keeping the sweat misery to a minimum. This may be due to
the fact that I sweat like a whore in church, so YMMV....

Second, durability is important. My Precip jacket has been around a while.
It's been thru what would have shredded many other light weight rain
jackets, and came out no worse for wear.

Third, no brand/model is perfect. Picking one is kind of like finding the
one that sucks the least.

Specific brand experience...

I had a cheap Sierra Designs 'Backpacker' raincoat -- ripped under my pack.
The shoulder strap just tore thru the fabric. Junk. About as durable as
wearing a plastic grocery bag. Not even worth the 20 dollars I spent. Their
tents are outstanding. Their rainwear sucks.

Had a Frogg Toggs set -- feels like DuPont Tyvek with a paint job. If you
are not going to encounter any situations where the material may get poked,
abraded, etc. then these might be for you, as they are very lightweight. If
however, you fish/hike in the 'real world', avoid these, also. Mine lasted
two hikes. The pants went bye-bye when crossing a downed tree. The coat's
elbow seams came apart. More junk.

Had a set of Red Ledge rainwear -- absolute ****e. The seam tape delaminated
after less than 10 wearings. The waterproof coating flaked off soon there
after. Quality control at the factory consists of a drunk monkey. Burned
this set in the camp fire.

Got the Precip set -- jacket and full-zip pants. So far, happy with these.
Not cheap (around US$225 for the set), but as you can see, I've wasted a bit
of money in the past. Wish I had purchased these first. My set has a few
hundred trail miles on it, and is still in decent shape. The pants have the
breathability of an old canvas tent, but they are durable and light. And,
the rainpants don't go on until the weather is really horrible, anyway. The
jacket is actually not bad. The armpit vents are great, the hood is
reasonable, and it weighs something along the lines of 13 ounces, size XL.

While in Canada, look around for a Mountain Equipment Co-Op Store.
Outstanding reputation. I've never shopped there, but some Canucks on a
backpacking board I read rave about it.

www.mec.ca

Good luck.

Dan

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...

Hi all!

My current rain jacket is starting to be in a pretty bad shape and it
also takes a lot of space, so I need a new one. Since I often travel
light (with just a relatively small backpack), I have been thinking
that maybe the best option for me would be to get what I think is
traditionally called a shell jacket: a rain coat with very little
functionality that fits into a small space (no pockets or other gizmos
ala wading jackets).
(stuff snipped)

Hi Jarmo,
I have "several" rain jackets. You might want to check out Cabela's. Not
the fly fishing catalog, but one that has to do with hunting. I have a
camo one that fits in to one of the pockets of the jacket itself. Quite
light and has always worked for me. When you get into the frosty weather
though, make sure you have the " other" stuff underneath. (but heck . . .I'm
sure it doesn't get frosty where you are :)
BestWishes,
DaveMohnsen
Denver
(Don Stern of the Swedish clave says hi. He has used a Cabela's version to
British Columbia, Costa Rica, and of course here in Colorado, and says they
work fine)

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...

Hi all!

My current rain jacket is starting to be in a pretty bad shape and it
also takes a lot of space, so I need a new one. Since I often travel
light (with just a relatively small backpack), I have been thinking
that maybe the best option for me would be to get what I think is
traditionally called a shell jacket: a rain coat with very little
functionality that fits into a small space (no pockets or other gizmos
ala wading jackets).

//snip//

I guess it depends on exactly how you plan to use it. I keep a Helly Hansen
shell in the back pocket of my vest which I use only when fishing - not
usually while hiking. It wads up into a very small space. I can put up with
a good bit of rain without it, but when I need it it fits over my vest so
there's plenty of room underneath it and breathability is not that critical.
I can also take it out of the pocket and put it on quickly without having to
remove the vest. It doesn't have pockets or velcro. It has strong elastic
wrist bands that keep most of the water from running down my sleeve when I
cast.

Somebody gave me a fedora-style hat last Christmas. I put off using it for a
long time because I thought it made me look too much like I stepped out of
an Orvis catalog, but it does a great job of keeping the rain from running
down my neck. And in hot weather I soak the hat in water and it does a great
job of cooling.

--
Bob Patton

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Dave,

Next time you see him say hi from me.

/Roger Ohlund
2003-2004 Lapland clavemeister

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

In article ,
says...

Hi all!

My current rain jacket is starting to be in a pretty bad shape and it
also takes a lot of space, so I need a new one. Since I often travel
light (with just a relatively small backpack), I have been thinking
that maybe the best option for me would be to get what I think is
traditionally called a shell jacket: a rain coat with very little
functionality that fits into a small space (no pockets or other gizmos
ala wading jackets).

I've had good luck with the Marmot Precip. Only downside is that it
provides very little warmth. For hiking it's ideal, but for fishing
I usually wind up having to add another layer underneath unless it's
really warm out. I have a Marmot softshell which is warm, breathable
and water resistant. Cool and lightly raining I just wear the
softshell, cool and raining hard I put the precip over the softshell,
warm and raining just wear the precip. Both have pitzips so you can
provide as much or little ventilation as you need.

My $0.02,
- Ken

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Jarmo Hurri wrote:
Hi all!

My current rain jacket is starting to be in a pretty bad shape and it
also takes a lot of space, so I need a new one. Since I often travel
light (with just a relatively small backpack), I have been thinking
that maybe the best option for me would be to get what I think is
traditionally called a shell jacket: a rain coat with very little
functionality that fits into a small space (no pockets or other gizmos
ala wading jackets).

I have Simms waders and boots, and I've found them to be pretty good
buys. So I took a look at what Simms has to offer, and found their
Paclite series: a jacket and a pullover. I am going to visit Canada
(BC) in December and thought of buying the jacket there. I contacted a
local shop and they told me that all they have available is the
pullover. So that's my strongest option right now.

However, since I have no personal experience on these products, it
would be valuable to hear from those who have used them. The criteria
that I have for the jacket are as follows: it should fit into a small
space, be breathable and durable, and have camouflage coloring (not,
say, bright red). I guess that's about it. Any personal info on the
Simms jackets or competing products would be much appreciated. Thanks.


I ditto Dan & Ken's opinions on the Marmot Precip. I just used it last
Thurs on the river. The only drawback for fishing purposes is, the lack
on big pockets, and the length for deep wading. I also have a very
compact rain shell by Marmot. It will pack down smaller than a tennis
ball. I keep it in my vest, just in case. It's minimal protection, but
has kept me dry during a couple surprise thunderstorms.

I have a non Gortex, Cabelas wading jacket. It's very
comfortable..........uhh, it's very comfortable.........doesn't keep me
dry anymore, but it's very comfortable.......holds water like a sponge,
but it's very comfy. It also has a bunch of velcro that has a mind of
it's own, but it's really a comfortable jacket to wear. FWIW, I think it
needs to be cleaned and re-treated with a water repellent.

brians

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Daniel-San First, there is no such thing a 'breathable' -- just
Daniel-San varying degrees of sauna-like Hell. ... This may be due to
Daniel-San the fact that I sweat like a whore in church, so YMMV....

My mileage is just the same, so I would tend to agree. However, if I
basically don't move, then a breathable garment might keep me dry.

Daniel-San Second, durability is important.

Agreed.

Daniel-San Specific brand experience...

Daniel-San I had a cheap Sierra Designs 'Backpacker' raincoat
Daniel-San ... Their rainwear sucks.

Ok...

Daniel-San Had a Frogg Toggs set ... More junk.

Ok...

Daniel-San Had a set of Red Ledge rainwear -- absolute
Daniel-San ****e. ... Quality control at the factory consists of a
Daniel-San drunk monkey. Burned this set in the camp fire.

Great...

Daniel-San Got the Precip set -- jacket and full-zip pants. So far,
Daniel-San happy with these.

Based on what you and others are saying, that seems to be a solid
option. They're not too expensive either.

Daniel-San While in Canada, look around for a Mountain Equipment
Daniel-San Co-Op Store. Outstanding reputation. I've never shopped
Daniel-San there, but some Canucks on a backpacking board I read rave
Daniel-San about it. www.mec.ca

Good idea. Their products do look impressive. Mountain Equipment Co-Op
would also be an easy option since they seem to have a store in
Vancouver, and Marmot seems to have dealers there so I can basically
decide when I see the products.

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

--
Jarmo Hurri

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or just use .

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Ken The best rain jackets I've ever found is Marmot and I highly
Ken recommend them.

Thanks for the tip, that seems to be the choice of the
audience.

Without this positive feedback I would have been hesitant to try one
of those, since they use their own breathable technology (some of
those just don't work, and it's difficult to know beforehand).

--
Jarmo Hurri

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Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Dave I have "several" rain jackets. You might want to check out
Dave Cabela's. Not the fly fishing catalog, but one that has to do
Dave with hunting.

Have you looked how many rain jackets they have in the hunting section
alone? Hmm, I guess the wife might appreciate their Scent-Lok
technology... But Cabelas is US only, right? I think I'm too scared
to order anything from the US to Canada, since it might (?) get stuck
at the customs.

Dave (but heck . . .I'm sure it doesn't get frosty where you are :)

Yeah, right...

Dave Don Stern of the Swedish clave says hi.

Hi Don!

--
Jarmo Hurri

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Opinions on shell jackets?
 

"Jarmo Hurri" wrote ...

Daniel-San First, there is no such thing a 'breathable' -- just
Daniel-San varying degrees of sauna-like Hell. ... This may be due to
Daniel-San the fact that I sweat like a whore in church, so YMMV....

My mileage is just the same, so I would tend to agree. However, if I
basically don't move, then a breathable garment might keep me dry.

Daniel-San Second, durability is important.

Agreed.

Daniel-San Specific brand experience...

Daniel-San I had a cheap Sierra Designs 'Backpacker' raincoat
Daniel-San ... Their rainwear sucks.

Ok...

Daniel-San Had a Frogg Toggs set ... More junk.

Ok...

Daniel-San Had a set of Red Ledge rainwear -- absolute
Daniel-San ****e. ... Quality control at the factory consists of a
Daniel-San drunk monkey. Burned this set in the camp fire.

Great...

Daniel-San Got the Precip set -- jacket and full-zip pants. So far,
Daniel-San happy with these.

Based on what you and others are saying, that seems to be a solid
option. They're not too expensive either.

Daniel-San While in Canada, look around for a Mountain Equipment
Daniel-San Co-Op Store. Outstanding reputation. I've never shopped
Daniel-San there, but some Canucks on a backpacking board I read rave
Daniel-San about it. www.mec.ca

Good idea. Their products do look impressive. Mountain Equipment Co-Op
would also be an easy option since they seem to have a store in
Vancouver, and Marmot seems to have dealers there so I can basically
decide when I see the products.

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

--
Jarmo Hurri

I have no idea if Campmor will ship to Finland, but they have the Precip
jacket on sale for $79.99 -- a pretty good price. Sizes tend to run a little
large to allow for layering.

http://tinyurl.com/95s69

Dan

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Bob I guess it depends on exactly how you plan to use it. I keep a
Bob Helly Hansen shell ... breathability is not that critical.

Hi Bob,

For me breathability is critical, if I for example happen to be
fishing in a mountain region. Also, extended periods of rain, even
without movement, tend to make one quite wet if the gear is not
breathable. (For short periods a non-breathable it's ok though.)

--
Jarmo Hurri

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Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Ken I've had good luck with the Marmot Precip. Only downside is that
Ken it provides very little warmth. For hiking it's ideal, but for
Ken fishing I usually wind up having to add another layer underneath
Ken unless it's really warm out.

I think that one of the things I learned with my current rain jacket
is that I want exactly what you have: a coat which protects from rain
but does not make me any warmer than necessary. That's because I sweat
a lot, and if it's cold I can always bring with me an extra layer.

I guess you're the 3rd or 4th person to recommend Marmot, so I can see
that they've achieved quite a reputation.

--
Jarmo Hurri

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Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Brian I ditto Dan & Ken's opinions on the Marmot Precip. I just used
Brian it last Thurs on the river. The only drawback for fishing
Brian purposes is, the lack on big pockets, and the length for deep
Brian wading.

Lack of pockets is ok, I already have too many pockets in my vest. :-)
But the length might be a problem. One of the good properties of my
current jacket is that it has a tightening strap at the level of my
waist (it was actually one of the reasons why I bought it in the first
place). What I do when I need to wade deeper is that I tighten the
waist, then tuck the lower parts of the jacket under the tightened
strap. Voila, a long jacket becomes a short one good for wading. The
pockets become unusable, but only while the jacket remains short.

Hmm, this is something I did not remember initially. I wonder if any
of the Marmots have this property.

--
Jarmo Hurri

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Opinions on shell jackets?
 

"Jarmo Hurri" wrote ...

Hmm, this is something I did not remember initially. I wonder if any
of the Marmots have this property.

--
Jarmo Hurri

The Precip has an elastic drawcord around the bottom -- easily cinches up.

Dan

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

The outfitter that Willi and Chas and I used in Alaska was very positive
about recommending the Cabela's Dry Plus line. He said they last a long
time and that they're "quiet," which is important for hunting, but not
for fishing.

BTW, the Patagonia wading jacket I was using in Alaska was evidently
worn out, because it didn't keep me dry after a few days of cold,
driving rain. I was miserable. The spare Marmot shell that Willi brought
along was a lifesaver.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Jarmo Hurri wrote:
Ken The best rain jackets I've ever found is Marmot and I highly
Ken recommend them.

Thanks for the tip, that seems to be the choice of the
audience.

Without this positive feedback I would have been hesitant to try one
of those, since they use their own breathable technology (some of
those just don't work, and it's difficult to know beforehand).

It occurs to me that of all the things roff is good for,
(and some would maintain that roff is good for nothing ;-),
gear recommendations may be number-one. As a group we have
been ruthless with those who would commercialize this place
so everyone knows that the advice given here is honest and
unbiased.

When I meet roffians for the first time the most common
comment is not, as you would expect, "You're as big an asshole
in person as you are on roff", the comment I've received far
more than any other is "Thank you for recommending SmartWool
socks on roff. I bought a pair on your recommendation and I
can't begin to tell you how much I love those socks."

But I don't know, maybe folks are just being polite.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

I just spent a weekend in a Browning "Gator Fleece"- seems pretty good at
stopping wind. This garment does not have pit vents. However, it is a
breathable fabric. It was about 20F with steady wind of 20 mph with frequent
35mph gusts. Body stayed warm while hiking and was still ok when we stopped
for lunch behind some poor windblasted tree alone on the ridge. Damn near
frostbit my face though. The fabric seemed to not build up a lot of
moisture, even after climbing through about 1000 ft or so of elevation gain
& it isn't too heavy for a single layer, and it keeps the wind out. I
haven't tried it in rain conditions yet. Browning recommends a gore-tex (or
other "breathable" waterproof outer) shell only if its really raining. I
think it only comes in camo- but I'm not sure about that. I did get pretty
chilled there for a while and I was having rude thoughts about the shell
when I figured out I had a couple of chest high pockets open- mesh pockets,
zipped them shut and stayed a nice comfortable temp.

I tend to think if the temps were 30f or above- it might be too much if your
going to be hiking- standing in the Clearwater steelheading in February
though might be fine- we'll see.

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...
//snip//

Have you looked how many rain jackets they have in the hunting section
alone? Hmm, I guess the wife might appreciate their Scent-Lok
technology...

Scent-Lok technology???
I guess if one is a connoisseur of well-aged cheese, or of goats, the smell
of an old rain jacket might have a certain appeal.
Bob

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
...

The best rain jackets I've ever found is Marmot and I highly
recommend them.

http://www.marmot.com/products/subca...loth&subcat=34

--
Ken Fortenberry


I'll second the Marmot, great shell jacket, I bought mine one size higher so
I could layer underneath.
-tom

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Daniel-San I have no idea if Campmor will ship to Finland, but they
Daniel-San have the Precip jacket on sale for $79.99 -- a pretty good
Daniel-San price. Sizes tend to run a little large to allow for
Daniel-San layering.

Thanks for the tip, but I think I'll take a look at the product in
Vancouver before actually buying one. I'll lose some bucks, but it
will decrease the regret factor.

--
Jarmo Hurri

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Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Daniel-San The Precip has an elastic drawcord around the bottom --
Daniel-San easily cinches up.

That might work, but the best thing I've found so far is what I think
is called a drawcord at waist. Just tighten that and then lift the
bottom under the drawcord (on the inside, if you know what I mean). I
read the idea initially from some Finnish fishing board, and I think
it's simply genious.

--
Jarmo Hurri

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Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Ken It occurs to me that of all the things roff is good for, (and
Ken some would maintain that roff is good for nothing ;-), gear
Ken recommendations may be number-one. As a group we have been
Ken ruthless with those who would commercialize this place so
Ken everyone knows that the advice given here is honest and unbiased.

Not only that, but on roff I have witnessed the best pieces of advice
to a number of fishing-related questions. The quality of the responses
on on-topic issues amazed me for a long time.

--
Jarmo Hurri

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address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
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Opinions on shell jackets?
 

"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...

Ken It occurs to me that of all the things roff is good for, (and
Ken some would maintain that roff is good for nothing ;-), gear
Ken recommendations may be number-one. As a group we have been
Ken ruthless with those who would commercialize this place so
Ken everyone knows that the advice given here is honest and unbiased.

Not only that, but on roff I have witnessed the best pieces of advice
to a number of fishing-related questions. The quality of the responses
on on-topic issues amazed me for a long time.

This place is a lot like a rummage sale. What you find when you get there
may or may not bear a resemblance to what you hoped or expected to
find......and everybody leaves with a different bag full of somebody else's
used stuff.

For me, the gear and technique related stuff is of minimal
interest.......it's all about the wonderful places and people I've gotten to
know.

Wolfgang
and yes, they are, for the most part, somebody else's used stuff. :)

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Jarmo Hurri wrote:
Daniel-San The Precip has an elastic drawcord around the bottom --
Daniel-San easily cinches up.

That might work, but the best thing I've found so far is what I think
is called a drawcord at waist. Just tighten that and then lift the
bottom under the drawcord (on the inside, if you know what I mean). I
read the idea initially from some Finnish fishing board, and I think
it's simply genious.

Jarmo,

I still had my jacket in my pickup from my last trip, so I took a look
at the waist band on my Precip jacket. It does have an elastic drawcord,
and you can tighten it up snugly against your waist. The odd thing I
found was, there's no way to secure the drawcord tight. Looks like they
forgot to put a cord lock on the elastic cord. Anyway, you could go to
any hiking/camping store and buy cord locks for a dollar or two. Here's
what they look like:

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...sea rchrefine

As a side note, some rain jacket hoods don't work very well, on their
own, or in conjunction with a hat. The Precip works very nicely with a
hat on, and ok without one.

brians

Opinions on shell jackets?
 

Cabela's Guidewear, same jacket and bibs since 1991. Still dry as ever, does
sing a little in brush, but I've heard a lot worse. Have slept in the rain
in the open many times in this gear, and 4 days of continuous rain in Alaska
doesn't phase it either. Easy to get on and off with your boots on when
necessary.