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Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
I saw this in Google's cache of a webpage that no longer exists, and I
figured I'd preserve it by posting it he ----------------------------- The Most Humane Way to Clean Fish ** Those of us who fish have on frequent occasion, wonder to what extent fish feel pain during the process of catching and cleaning them. We certainly are concerned with the survival of those species that we release, taking care to make sure that they swim away to "fight another day." But what about those that make into our coolers? What is the most humane way of dealing with the basic living creatures? For the answer, here are the thoughts of neurobiologist Dr. Sarah Fox, who has done extensive research into the sensory aspects of fish. By Sarah Fox, Ph.D. As a neurobiologist who has done some work with fish, and as a recent observer of the fishing/cleaning process, I'm quite concerned at some practices (not mentioned in the article) that have been time-honored common practice, at least among sport fishermen. I have a few very well educated thoughts, and I would appreciate your making your readers aware of them somehow. My concern isn't so much how to *clean* a fish as it is how and when to *kill* it. I was horrified to watch as one fisherman pulled a live fish out of a bucket and clumsily started scaling it. When he was done with the scaling, he cut the head off. He explained that he needed the head to hold, in order to do the scaling. I pointed to a scaling board (with a tail clamp) about 3 feet from him, suggesting that he could cut the head off first, and *then* scale the fish on the board. He didn't want to do it that way. He said the fish didn't feel anything anyway, because it's a cold-blooded animal. As a neurobiologist, I've done quite a lot of work on cold-blooded animals. It is an outright myth that they don't feel pain. They do. I've personally recorded from nerve cells that transmit pain information to the brain, so I know the pain information is there. An animal would certainly have a difficult time surviving if it were unconcerned about bodily injury, so pain pathways are quite necessary in all animals! My friend took a much more humane approach and cut off the head before doing anything else. However, her cut left just enough of the muscle behind that I could see the fish (i.e. its head) writhing for a few minutes thereafter. I had always trusted the folk wisdom that decapitation means instant death and loss of consciousness. Apparently that's a myth too. This would especially be true in a cold blooded animal, as its rate of oxygen consumption (hence, suffocation) is quite low. The head did not die from loss of circulation or neural input. It slowly suffocated (and almost certainly with a great deal of pain). One thing we did that helped was to "cold-anesthetize" the fish before killing them. This was very easy: We dumped ice in the fish bucket. Because the fish are cold blooded, loss of body heat is not distressing to them, at least in the same sense as it would be to a bird or mammal. There is no thermal setpoint to fight. As the fish cools off, its metabolism slows too, entering into what would be very similar to a hibernation state for a mammal. When it stops moving, it's effectively "anesthetized." In this state, it can be cleaned rather painlessly. Ultimately, though, there is a suffocation issue for the head. When it warms back up, it becomes metabolically active again. However, there is no question that there would very little pain this way. Commercially, fish are flung out of the water and allowed to suffocate in the air. While this may seem a difficult fate, it is perhaps a more humane one. If suffocation is inevitable, either before or after decapitation, then why not suffocate before decapitation and not have to endure the pain of being scaled and cut up? Some fishermen have a practice of pulling their catch out of the water and throwing it directly into an ice chest. This is a method of cold anesthesia, which when combined with suffocation, is probably more humane still. Perhaps the ultimate technique in humane fishing would be to throw the catch into a bucket of ice water, where it can still breathe, but where it will quickly be anesthetized. Then throw it on ice, where it will suffocate slowly during a prolonged state of anesthesia. It is invitable that we must kill something to live, whether it is a cow or a chicken or a fish or a vegetable. These are all life forms that have their own right to life, just like ours. Inevitably, we can't all live, so one creature must inevitably be consumed by another. None of us should have any problem with that. However, there is no reason, as smart as we are, that we cannot be merciful in the way we gather our food. That is the least we can do for the creatures that lose their lives to sustain ours. Peace, Sarah Fox, Ph.D. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
"Commercially, fish are flung out of the water and allowed to suffocate
in the air. While this may seem a difficult fate, it is perhaps a more humane one. If suffocation is inevitable, either before or after decapitation, then why not suffocate before decapitation and not have to endure the pain of being scaled and cut up?" I wonder how much pain a fish feels from scaling and being cut up, if it were decapitated first. Hmph. Besides, whoever wrote this article has evidently never heard of a 'priest'. --riverman |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
Hmm yeah it seems ignorant as well as silly. The fact that a muscle
continues to writhe after decapitation shows nothing about pain. It shows that muscles continue to writhe (in mammels as well as fish) after death - a phenomenon that's been noted for many centuries. I do get upset, though, with some fishermen who are needlessly cruel to fish. L |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
"lazarus" wrote in message oups.com... Hmm yeah it seems ignorant as well as silly. The fact that a muscle continues to writhe after decapitation shows nothing about pain. It shows that muscles continue to writhe (in mammels as well as fish) after death - a phenomenon that's been noted for many centuries. I do get upset, though, with some fishermen who are needlessly cruel to fish. If fish DON'T feel pain, it's difficult to see how anything done to them can be construed as cruel; no one has any real reason to be upset by anything done to them. If they DO, then ALL recreational angling is needlessly cruel. Problems, carefully thought through and clearly stated, generally turn out to be fairly simple. Solutions are typically harder to find......and then there's the whole implementation mess. :) Wolfgang |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
riverman wrote:
I wonder how much pain a fish feels from scaling and being cut up, if it were decapitated first. Hmph. lazarus wrote: Hmm yeah it seems ignorant as well as silly. The fact that a muscle continues to writhe after decapitation shows nothing about pain. It shows that muscles continue to writhe (in mammels as well as fish) after death - a phenomenon that's been noted for many centuries. I think she meant that since cold blooded animals require less oxygen, the blood supplied by the muscle that's left attached to the head might keep them alive to feel the pain of being decapitated, and then they would experience suffocation, so it's better to have them die of suffocation before decapitating them. Personally, I'd prefer to decapitate them before the suffocated, and try not to leave much muscle or anything behind the head. That might cause them to suffocate faster. But I definately wouldn't scale the body with the head attached if the fish was alive, and I'd use the "cold-anesthetize" method. I also heard that some people hit the fish in the head to knock it out. I wish SOME kind of humane treatment for fish was regulated. It's possible that fish suffer about as much as a human would under the same conditions. But I have a feeling that even if we KNEW that for sure, people would think it's somehow not as bad because they're just fish. To me, the main difference is that a fish's faimily probably would mourn for them as much as a human's family would mourn for a human, but it's the possible physical pain that bothers me. Wolfgang wrote: If fish DON'T feel pain, it's difficult to see how anything done to them can be construed as cruel; no one has any real reason to be upset by anything done to them. If they DO, then ALL recreational angling is needlessly cruel. I heard the roof of a fish's mouth doesn't have enough nerves to feel pain from a hook, but I wouldn't recreational fish anyway. I used to fish a little as a kid, and I was the complete opposite of how I am now. I once caught a snapper and people on the peir told me to throw it back if I won't be eating it, but I wanted to see it swim in circles in my bucket. And I once caught an eel and people were trying to buy it from me so they could eat it, and they kept raising their price, but I wanted to bring it home just to show my father. I guess I'm trying to make up for it by saving their great grandkids. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
wrote . I guess I'm trying to make up for it by saving their great grandkids. my guess is that you are more ****ed up than a soup sandwich. wayno |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
Wayne Harrison wrote: wrote . I guess I'm trying to make up for it by saving their great grandkids. my guess is that you are more ****ed up than a soup sandwich. wayno How about an explanation? I'm talking about possibly preventing thousands of cases of horrible pain and suffering per day, and that's the best response you have? |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
wrote in message oups.com... Wayne Harrison wrote: wrote . I guess I'm trying to make up for it by saving their great grandkids. my guess is that you are more ****ed up than a soup sandwich. wayno How about an explanation? I'm talking about possibly preventing thousands of cases of horrible pain and suffering per day, and that's the best response you have? well, barry, i don't know what to say. that you are so concerned about the pain of fish in times that thousands of human beings are dying, day by day, in iraq, and other places, simply overwhelms my ability to relate to you, on a rational level. what do you think about the pain that fish feel when they are eaten by other fish, or birds, or otters, or old age, for that matter? i suggest that you grab a syringe full of demerol, and patrol the streams in your locality, searching for fish in pain. inject those who you conclude are in pain, and move on, comforted by your unctious efforts. wayno |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
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Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
Wayne Harrison wrote:
that you are so concerned about the pain of fish in times that thousands of human beings are dying, day by day, in iraq, and other places, simply overwhelms my ability to relate to you, on a rational level. I think the safe answer would be for me to just say that it's easy to prevent some of the suffering of fish by telling people the relatively simple way to prevent, or at least reduce the suffering, or by creating the appropriate regulations. It's worth a shot anyway. It's pretty fast cheap to just post a message here, and I think it's worth the trouble even if you can't compare the fish problem to the human problem. An equivalent effort in time and money to help people in Iraq, by myself or by the government, wouldn't do very much. But screw the "safe" answer. One reason it bothers me so much is that I have no reason to believe that the daily suffering of fish is any less than the daily suffering of people. what do you think about the pain that fish feel when they are eaten by other fish, or birds, or otters, or old age, for that matter? I think about that too, and it's pretty damn horrible (I usually think of more furry creatures though). I heard about some animal that's something like 90% likely to die by a predator attack, and it's not always a quick kill from a bite to the neck. Because of that, I'm not an animal conservationist, or whatever they're called. I'd rather not be born if I knew I was likely to die like that. Maybe it's better to suffocate on a boat, or die by a hunter, or maybe it's all the same, but the less painful it is, the better. i suggest that you grab a syringe full of demerol, and patrol the streams in your locality, searching for fish in pain. inject those who you conclude are in pain, and move on, comforted by your unctious efforts. I'll take the blame for not doing that if everyone else takes the blame for not even cleaning their own catch humanely. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
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Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
Wayne Harrison wrote: wrote . I guess I'm trying to make up for it by saving their great grandkids. my guess is that you are more ****ed up than a soup sandwich. wayno I think you got that one right, check out her website. http://www.gendernet.org/sarah/ Probably not getting enough hits on her semiporn site so she's over trolling in roff. I'll bet the PHD is phoney and you have never has a bottle with enough scotch in it to make you look twice at that. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
rw wrote:
I think every fisherman should be required to carry, and to use, a battery-powered bass-o-matic. Works for trout, too. I guess all fishermen know that reference, but just in case: http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75qbassamatic.phtml BJ Conner wrote: I think you got that one right, check out her website. http://www.gendernet.org/sarah/ Probably not getting enough hits on her semiporn site so she's over trolling in roff. I'll bet the PHD is phoney and you have never has a bottle with enough scotch in it to make you look twice at that. That's probably a different Sarah Fox, and I'm not either one. It doesn't say PHD anywhere on that webpage. My website is PoliSource.com. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
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Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 07:35:46 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote: wrote: To me, the main difference is that a fish's faimily probably would mourn for them as much as a human's family would mourn for a human, but it's the possible physical pain that bothers me. I was pretty sure from the start that this thread was a troll, and this clinches it. Chuck Vance ("fish's faimily ... mourn for them"?!) It's all Clinton's fault. He shook hands with JFK, and JFK was Catholic - well, so he claimed, anyway. Catholics eat fish on Friday. The Kennedy band are...er, is...er,am...well, whatever...Catholic. The Kennedys are involved in lots of funerals. Think of all the fish funerals they've caused! There can be no questioning that the data on this table - http://tinyurl.com/7ka8c - proves it. HTH, R |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
"I saw this in Google's cache of a webpage that no longer exists, and I
figured I'd preserve it by posting it he" Barry, here's a lesson. In an attempt to communicate, one should "know your audience." What this means is that what you find important is not necessarily what we find important. You came in here with a rather disingenuous statement (noted above), but your real reason for posting was to preach your belief system to the "uninitiated." You started out with a lie, lost all credibility and still are attempting to argue. Go back to trying to find dates in teen pregnancy groups by displaying your world shattering knowledge of hemorrhoids. Frank Reid |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
wrote: rw wrote: I think every fisherman should be required to carry, and to use, a battery-powered bass-o-matic. Works for trout, too. I guess all fishermen know that reference, but just in case: http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75qbassamatic.phtml BJ Conner wrote: I think you got that one right, check out her website. http://www.gendernet.org/sarah/ Probably not getting enough hits on her semiporn site so she's over trolling in roff. I'll bet the PHD is phoney and you have never has a bottle with enough scotch in it to make you look twice at that. That's probably a different Sarah Fox, and I'm not either one. It doesn't say PHD anywhere on that webpage. My website is PoliSource.com. Right under Welcome "Hi! Thanks for visiting my page. My name is Sarah Fox, Ph.D., and I am a transsexual woman...." Mail order PHD? Go away, screwed up people should work of fixing themselves first then they can work on the rest of us. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
wrote in message ups.com... I saw this in Google's cache of a webpage that no longer exists, and I figured I'd preserve it by posting it he ----------------------------- The Most Humane Way to Clean Fish congratulations. you have now become the instigator of the most bizarre thread ever to appear on r.o.f.f. simply breathtaking. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:34:27 GMT, rw
wrote: wrote: Wayne Harrison wrote: wrote . I guess I'm trying to make up for it by saving their great grandkids. my guess is that you are more ****ed up than a soup sandwich. wayno How about an explanation? I'm talking about possibly preventing thousands of cases of horrible pain and suffering per day, and that's the best response you have? I suggest that you consider not hooking them (i.e., fish) in the mouth and playing them to exhaustion. Yeah.. he should bite them (i.e., fish...hmm, on second thought, why place limits - Barry, you go, girl!) in the ass and ride them like National Velvet. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
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Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
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Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:58:35 GMT, rw
wrote: wrote: On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:34:27 GMT, rw wrote: wrote: How about an explanation? I'm talking about possibly preventing thousands of cases of horrible pain and suffering per day, and that's the best response you have? I suggest that you consider not hooking them (i.e., fish) in the mouth and playing them to exhaustion. Yeah.. he should bite them (i.e., fish...hmm, on second thought, why place limits - Barry, you go, girl!) in the ass and ride them like National Velvet. Irony challenged, as usual. Naw, ya fuzzy little Double Turlette, you're more like "irony sad Mac"...hit any key to continue...hit any other key to quit... |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
On 16 Nov 2005 17:49:46 -0800, wrote:
To me, the main difference is that a fish's faimily probably would mourn for them as much as a human's family would mourn for a human, but it's the possible physical pain that bothers me. Please go back to your Vegan group. You know nothing whatsoever about fish, as indicated in the above quote. Whoever said you're as messed up as a soup sandwich was being a bit too kind. There's not enough to you to have ever had the sandwich part going. Thin vegetable broth is the heartiest I can grant and I have a hard time doing that. Cyli r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels. Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. http://www.visi.com/~cyli email: lid (strip the .invalid to email) |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
Frank Reid wrote:
Barry, here's a lesson. In an attempt to communicate, one should "know your audience." What this means is that what you find important is not necessarily what we find important. How could others not find preventing the pain of suffocation and being scaled alive through a DAMN EASY METHOD important! You all have the power to prevent is, but most of you don't seem to want to lift a finger to get a bucket of ice for the fish, or like the original post said--use a scaling board and cut off the fish's head first. It's not like I'm confronting you with ice and telling you to use it. If you're not sure you want to bother, at least don't hold it against me for caring. It seems people would rather concentrate on my comments about fish not mourning as much as people. Do they not mourn at all? Ok, some animals do, but maybe fish don't. I don't care! My point was that I'm bothered by the PHYSICAL pain! Do you know that fish don't experience pain? your real reason for posting was to preach your belief system to the "uninitiated." You started out with a lie, lost all credibility and still are attempting to argue. The original post might not have been worded perfectly, but it wasn't my words and I don't know of any lie except from some posters here about who the author is. There's useful and important information in it. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
Cyli wrote:
On 16 Nov 2005 17:49:46 -0800, wrote: To me, the main difference is that a fish's faimily probably would mourn for them as much as a human's family would mourn for a human, but it's the possible physical pain that bothers me. Please go back to your Vegan group. You know nothing whatsoever about fish, as indicated in the above quote. I didn't notice that...I meant they probably WOULDN'T mourn for them as much, though a missing parent might mean death for for baby fish. I won't pretend to know enough about fish to know. But whatever I meant there, you don't have to throw out every other important detail from me and from the woman I quoted. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
barry wrote ...
snip the woman I quoted. You're generous. Dan |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
wrote in message ups.com... ...whatever I meant there... Leave a number. As soon as somebody figures it out we'll call you. Wolfgang |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
Some pos(t)er stomped HisHer foot and pouted:
"How could others not find preventing the pain of suffocation and being scaled alive through a DAMN EASY METHOD important! You all have the power to prevent is, but most of you don't seem to want to lift a finger to get a bucket of ice for the fish, or like the original post said--use a scaling board and cut off the fish's head first." Well, soupsandwich, for starters most of us here are catch and release fisherman. Secondarily, when you are standing up to your balls (its just an expression, don't get your panties in a knot) in a river, 'lifting a finger to get a bucket of ice for the fish' is laughable. Thirdly, I don't keep a scaling board hanging off of my fly fishing vest. Fourthly, being the guy who CAUSED the poor fish family to have to hold sunday services for its poor departed cousin, it seems rather incongruous to also be the one who dons surgical gloves and does fishy mouth to mouth and brings flowers to ease its pain. How many fish do you think die of old age, peacefully in their sleep? --riverman |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
"riverman" wrote in message oups.com... ...How many fish do you think die of old age, peacefully in their sleep? Well, there's the vast majority of those I've pursued. And, having spent time astream with Wayno, Jeffie, Mark, Tom, Tom, Tom, Ken, Bill, Bob, Steve, Steve, Uncle Wally, John, George, Joel, Wayne, Kim, Mike, Frank, Frank, Dave, Joe, and.....and.....uh.....well, sundry others, I'd say the odds are looking pretty good. :) Wolfgang um.....on the other hand, there's willi....... :( |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
I used to know an older fella (passed away now) would would literally fillet
his catch of panfish alive. i.e. *never* cut off the head. The fish went from stringer to cleaning table and immediately into the bucket, still alive but without their flesh. Now that was pretty disgusting. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
Barry,
As I mentioned, know your audience. One, 99% of the folks here are catch and release 99% of the time. You figure how many we keep. Two, trout don't have scales worth worrying about so we don't scale them. Three, old item that trout fishermen who do keep their catch use is called a priest. Small club used to stun and kill the fish immediately. Four, we don't carry two differing bags of ice (one with and one without water) out on a stream as we are often miles from any vehicle. So, your ranting, raving only serves to make you look more foolish than you already are. Joined Mensa when I was 16. Joined Tabla too. Gave it all up when I found that the vast majority of the folks didn't have the sense God gave a goose. The one's with sense left too. So, shut up, learn and move on. Cheers Frank Reid |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
riverman wrote:
Well, soupsandwich, for starters most of us here are catch and release fisherman. Secondarily, when you are standing up to your balls (its just an expression, don't get your panties in a knot) in a river, 'lifting a finger to get a bucket of ice for the fish' is laughable. Thirdly, I don't keep a scaling board hanging off of my fly fishing vest. Fourthly, being the guy who CAUSED the poor fish family to have to hold sunday services for its poor departed cousin, it seems rather incongruous to also be the one who dons surgical gloves and does fishy mouth to mouth and brings flowers to ease its pain. All I know about fly fishing is that you need little hairy things called flies. I didn't have catch and release fisherman or wading in mind. How many fish do you think die of old age, peacefully in their sleep? I don't know. I'm just trying to make things easier for the ones on the boat with the fisherman who caught them. Do they make electrocution lures that electrocute only the fish that's caught? That would be a little unsportsmanlike, but that wouldn't bother me so much for food fishing if it worked well. Or some kid of electrocution spear. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
Frank Reid wrote:
Barry, Small club used to stun and kill the fish immediately. I referred to that early on. About 10 years ago, I asked on Compuserver how I can find fish that were caught by someone who clubbed them as opposed to just letting them suffocate, but nobody responded. I learned about those clubs from a fishing show. The guy said that it actually bothers some people to club the fish. I thought it was rare until now. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
wrote in message ups.com... All I know about fly fishing is that you need little hairy things called flies. It isn't so much a matter of need as it is the fact that if you're out there, you get 'em. :( I didn't have catch and release fisherman or wading in mind. Or much of anything else, for that matter. How many fish do you think die of old age, peacefully in their sleep? I don't know. I'm just trying to make things easier for the ones on the boat with the fisherman who caught them. Maybe you could make formal introductions. That's always helped a lot in social encounters in my experience. Do they make electrocution lures that electrocute only the fish that's caught? That would be a little unsportsmanlike, but that wouldn't bother me so much for food fishing if it worked well. Or some kid of electrocution spear. A firecracker tucked well into the mouth works pretty well......and it's much simpler (and cheaper) than fancy electrical devices.....not to mention the bother of batteries or the very real risks associated with running a 440 line from shore. Then too, a .44 to the back of the head (.357 will do in a pinch.....well, for panfish, anyway) rarely fails to do the job quickly and with a minimum of fuss. Um.....DO remember to take along a bilge pump! On the other hand, why not simply take the path of least resistance? If the metaphysical angst of all these traumatized fish (and let us not forget all of those other finny, feathery, and furry little beasties with......um, shall we say 'proscribed lives'?) is just too too much for you to bear, why then you can make it all go away in a flash.....so to speak. Just hold that ..44 real steady......turn it around.......and squeeze. Don't Jerk! Squeeeeeeze. Nice and easy. Lights out. End of the world. Tie score all the way around. :) Wolfgang to sleep......perchance to dream..... |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
You know, I've been convinced of the error of my ways.
Anyone know where I can get Lidocaine-impregnated hooks? I intend to dip them in Betadine before I cast them, just to help with the healing process. And I will only tie flies from materials harvested from free-range animals, who died gently in their sleep. And I'll only use floatant and other chemical materials from companies that refuse to do animal testing. The tippet and leader material must be biodegradable, and all labor for my gear, clothing and materials will be from countries that do not have sweatshops, and have honored the UN Declaration of Human Rights. I'll stop swatting mosquitoes, but use Skin-so-soft instead. I'll ensure the gas in my car that I use to get to the stream was from US fuel reserves, the car is a Hybrid that gets at least 30 mpg, but I only use it for journeys in excess of 10 miles (errr, I mean 16 kilometers) when I can't ride my bike, take public transport or walk, and I will only drink american beer. --riverman Well, I might slip up on the beer thing. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
"I used to know an older fella (passed away now) would would literally
fillet his catch of panfish alive. i.e. *never* cut off the head. The fish went from stringer to cleaning table and immediately into the bucket, still alive but without their flesh. Now that was pretty disgusting." Yeah, Klaus Barbie. I've heard of him. --riverman |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
Wolfgang wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... I didn't have catch and release fisherman or wading in mind. Or much of anything else, for that matter. I doubt that ANYONE here believes that. Certainly nobody who matters. Maybe you could make formal introductions. That's always helped a lot in social encounters in my experience. Maybe you should re-read the replies in this thread. There's nothing remotely formal about it. If my posts don't apply to the fisherman here, they're still fishing related. Maybe people should pass on the information instead of calling me sandwich names. As for riverman's comments below (if you're reading this by date), you'd think I was asking people to actually go out of their way for something. Just put some freaking ice in the water and you could prevent the pain of suffocation, or club the fish. That's all I'm saying. Actually, I wasn't even saying anyone should do that until I was attacked. I was just mentioning that someone said it works. |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
Frank Reid wrote:
Joined Mensa when I was 16. Joined Tabla too. Gave it all up when I found that the vast majority of the folks didn't have the sense God gave a goose. How were the rest of 'em as far as staying upright? I mean, maybe yer brains make you fellers top-heavy. ;-) -- TL, Tim --------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj/ |
Most Humane Way to Clean Fish
Okay, these were the guys that would be your friend because you had a
hydroponics set-up in your attic. The hydroponics stuff, i.e. the technical side, was really bitchin. Hmm, we had one guy that was a tackle on the football team. If we ever mentioned to anyone that in reality he was truely smart, he'd give you an atomic wedgie. Frank Reid |
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