Adams question
 

When wrapping the hackle, do you find any difference between wrapping
the two colored hackles separately, or at once?

And when did my thumbs get so damn big???


--riverman

Adams question
 

riverman typed:
When wrapping the hackle, do you find any difference between wrapping
the two colored hackles separately, or at once?

I wrap both at once. If I wrap one and then the other, I tend to mash some
of the barbs down on the first.

And when did my thumbs get so damn big???

Probably about the same time they started making the hooks smaller.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

Adams question
 

"riverman" wrote in message
oups.com...
When wrapping the hackle, do you find any difference between wrapping
the two colored hackles separately, or at once?

Hi riverman,
Separately gives you more control about where the hackle is placed . . . and
I suggest you use a hackle pliers for the smaller creations. I've done, as
I suspect many here have done, played around with options. (but I have done
a twisting technique for some patterns . . .commercially . . .as I recall .
.. .but not sure if ever went into production . . .not relevant for here)

Uhh . . .tie two. . .different versions. . . show them to us. You may tell
the difference yourself. I sure can.
And . . .I suspect :) . . .it has come up before that "The Fly Tier's
Benchside Reference" may help you for techniques.

And when did my thumbs get so damn big???

Hmm... I seem to remember seeing a tier in Thailand that had no thumb,
pretty much, but tied a better fly than me with the other digits. . . every
day. . .and many more flies that I could tie in a day.
Anyhow,
DaveMohnsen
Denver

Adams question
 

Dave Mohnsen typed:
"riverman" wrote in message
oups.com...
When wrapping the hackle, do you find any difference between wrapping
the two colored hackles separately, or at once?

Hi riverman,
Separately gives you more control about where the hackle is placed .
. . and I suggest you use a hackle pliers for the smaller creations. I've
done, as I suspect many here have done, played around with
options. (but I have done a twisting technique for some patterns . .
.commercially . . .as I recall . . .but not sure if ever went into
production . . .not relevant for here)
Uhh . . .tie two. . .different versions. . . show them to us. You
may tell the difference yourself. I sure can. snip

I forgot to say that in my reply. Doing the hackles one at a time cetainly
produces a better looking fly to us humans, but I've not seen any difference
astream. So. . . tying for a swap, I'd do the one-hackle-at-a-time method,
for my fly box, the easier of the two. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

Adams question
 

"riverman" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
oups.com...
When wrapping the hackle, do you find any difference between wrapping
the two colored hackles separately, or at once?

And when did my thumbs get so damn big???


--riverman


Separately is better. It is quite easy to wind the second hackle through the
first, although it may not appear to be so at first. As with all these
things, a little practice is required.

Just be grateful that your thumbs are not as big as the middle fingers on my
left hand! My neihgbour accidentally, ( I hope! :)) slammed the door on
them, and I can assure you that a single, more or less "unopposed", thumb on
one hand is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard!

TL
MC

Adams question
 

riverman wrote:
When wrapping the hackle, do you find any difference between wrapping
the two colored hackles separately, or at once?

And when did my thumbs get so damn big???


--riverman

I'm sure you've gotten some good advice, but the *real* solution is to get
yourself a grade-a cree neck and just use that...

OK, I don't have, nor have I ever seen a really nice cree neck. But, I have
a really nice golden grizzly (dyed) neck I that I use. Golden brown and
black barred feathers. I think that "two different colored hackles" stuff
is too fussy.
--
Stan Gula
near 'nuff is good 'nuff

Adams question
 

"Stan Gula" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:aHjlf.2025$Kg5.1972@trndny06...
riverman wrote:
When wrapping the hackle, do you find any difference between wrapping
the two colored hackles separately, or at once?

And when did my thumbs get so damn big???


--riverman

I'm sure you've gotten some good advice, but the *real* solution is to get
yourself a grade-a cree neck and just use that...

OK, I don't have, nor have I ever seen a really nice cree neck. But, I
have
a really nice golden grizzly (dyed) neck I that I use. Golden brown and
black barred feathers. I think that "two different colored hackles" stuff
is too fussy.
--
Stan Gula
near 'nuff is good 'nuff



That is first class advice, which is very nearly as rare as first class Cree
necks! :) At one time, and not all that long ago, Cree necks were to be
found in the "seconds" bin, along with all the other **** that the dealer
could not otherwise sell! Usually marked as "variegated", or a host of
similar euphemisms meaning ( I don´t know what it is , but I want to sell
it anyway). ( Lovely word that, "variegated", rhymes with "excoriated").

On the other hand, an Adams requires two hackles, otherwise it is not an
Adams, just a general hamfisted ****up, of which there are far too many
nowadays.

( No offence Stan!)

Come on Myron, dont be lazy, learn how to do it. It is not as if anybody is
asking you to keep a mob of ungrateful and singularly stupid kids in check,
or, even worse teach them something, now is it?

TL
MC ( Still only on his third whisky, but seriously contemplating the fifth)

Adams question
 

Mike Connor wrote:
On the other hand, an Adams requires two hackles, otherwise it is not
an Adams, just a general hamfisted ****up, of which there are far too
many nowadays.

( No offence Stan!)

Why would I take offence? My point (which you probably know) is that an
Adams is an OK fly, but too fussy. I'll go heretic for a moment and say I
rarely ever follow a named pattern exactly. I *could*, and I *have*, but
don't *want*. That's the freedom of rolling your own, isn't it? Mixing the
hackle fibers for the tail and then winding a double hackle on a fly that's
just a 'near nuff' kind of fly in the first place is, well, too much work.
(I'm not really lazy, just frugal with my time, yeah, that's the ticket)
Given the quality of modern hackle, I see little reason ever to use two
hackles. First off the new hackles are so long you can get plenty of winds
from a single feather (and often multiple flies from a single feather) and
the barb density is such that overwinding is hardly ever needed. 4 or 5
turns of a beautiful grade a feather (Whiting silver or better for example)
is plenty. So, to repeat myself, although it not really an 'Adams', I think
a nice grayish bodied dun (or even better, an olive/gray mix) with golden or
brown dyed grizzly is near nuff to an Adams if you catch my (not quite
dragless) drift. Likewise, I don't even bother with grizzly hackle tip
wings. I use a nice medium dun hen neck or brown dyed mallark flank. ****,
I don't think I've tied a 'real Adams' in 15 years.

TL
MC ( Still only on his third whisky, but seriously contemplating the
fifth)

I wish I could join you.
--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps

Adams question
 

Stan Gula wrote:
snip
Likewise, I don't even bother with grizzly hackle tip
wings. I use a nice medium dun hen neck or brown dyed mallark flank. ****,
I don't think I've tied a 'real Adams' in 15 years. ...

Hell, I can one-up you in the laz ... er "frugal with time"
category. I don't tie in wings at all anymore.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Adams question
 

Stan Gula wrote:
Mike Connor wrote:
On the other hand, an Adams requires two hackles, otherwise it is not
an Adams, just a general hamfisted ****up, of which there are far too
many nowadays.

( No offence Stan!)

Why would I take offence? My point (which you probably know) is that an
Adams is an OK fly, but too fussy. I'll go heretic for a moment and say I
rarely ever follow a named pattern exactly. I *could*, and I *have*, but
don't *want*. That's the freedom of rolling your own, isn't it? Mixing the
hackle fibers for the tail and then winding a double hackle on a fly that's
just a 'near nuff' kind of fly in the first place is, well, too much work.


I've started an experiment, by the way. After tying an Adams, I always
have two feathers without tips (which were sacrificed for the upwings),
a piece of Brown and another piece of Grizzly from the hackle, and a
pinch of dubbing. So I tie a 'NearNuff" with the leftovers. I use the
tipless hackles for the new upwings (which look truncated at this
point), snip a bit off the midsection of one of the feathers to
generate fibers for the tail, wrap the thorax with the leftover dubbing
(plus a pinch of new, if needed. Dubbing is cheap), then I use the
second tipless feather for the hackle, along with the remnant of the
brown hackle. Last of all, I trip the (rather weird) wings into shape.

So far, my 'NearNuff' flies don't look to unappetizing, assuming that
old adage about the ugliest flies catching the most fish. In fact, they
look almost normal, just not as 'delicate'. I look forward to trying
out some of these on the river, or at least sending them around in a
'practical fly' flyswap. (A 'practical fly' meaning one that is tied
for fishing, not for showing.)

--riverman

Adams question
 

"Stan Gula" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Tpolf.16643$ad6.10943@trndny08...
SNIP
I wish I could join you.
--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps



You are perfectly right Stan, I was only joking! If you can get a good cree
hackle there is no reason at all not to use it. As you say, if you "roll
your own" you can do whatever the hell you please! :)

TL
MC

Adams question
 

"riverman" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
ups.com...
SNIP
I've started an experiment, by the way. After tying an Adams, I always
have two feathers without tips (which were sacrificed for the upwings),
a piece of Brown and another piece of Grizzly from the hackle, and a
pinch of dubbing. So I tie a 'NearNuff" with the leftovers. I use the
tipless hackles for the new upwings (which look truncated at this
point), snip a bit off the midsection of one of the feathers to
generate fibers for the tail, wrap the thorax with the leftover dubbing
(plus a pinch of new, if needed. Dubbing is cheap), then I use the
second tipless feather for the hackle, along with the remnant of the
brown hackle. Last of all, I trip the (rather weird) wings into shape.

So far, my 'NearNuff' flies don't look to unappetizing, assuming that
old adage about the ugliest flies catching the most fish. In fact, they
look almost normal, just not as 'delicate'. I look forward to trying
out some of these on the river, or at least sending them around in a
'practical fly' flyswap. (A 'practical fly' meaning one that is tied
for fishing, not for showing.)

--riverman


They will cetainly catch fish. Even just a pinch of fur on a hook will catch
fish. I reckon that about 80% of the time, if not more, there is no real
need for very complex flies. I do like to tie such flies sometimes though,
I am still always fascinated by the look of a fly that turns out just right,
and there is a lot of satisfaction to be had just from looking at a row of
such flies that one has completed.

TL
MC

Adams question
 

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"Stan Gula" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Tpolf.16643$ad6.10943@trndny08...
SNIP
I wish I could join you.
--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps



You are perfectly right Stan, I was only joking! If you can get a good
cree hackle there is no reason at all not to use it. As you say, if you
"roll your own" you can do whatever the hell you please! :)
TL
MC

Hi Folks,
Kind of a fun thread for my simple mind.
Some thoughts:
For Stan . . . I never use a "cree". I have one. . . and I used it only as
a base color when I dyed grizzly to compare, when in ancient history I
consulted to a fly manufacturer.
For all, if you want a cree just use Rit dye, with a grizzly neck or saddle.
I used to use a color they called pumpkin. Not sure Rit does it anymore. .
.. but you can google it.
For my "current" Adams, I use
- tail is grizzly
- body is gray, gray/olive, etc.
- parachute wing of poly stuff of some sort that I can "color" with pen
markers, if needed
- hackle is grizzly ( mostly not dyed at all . . but can color it with
pens)
- sometimes . . .I use a just a hackle wrapped wing . . .just grizzly, and
then . . .gasp . . . clip off stuff I don't want when out on a
stream/river/lake, depending on the situation.
The fun is that you can goof around. But you need to know the basics of fly
tying . . .uhh . . .and hackle maintenance . . .and orientation.
DaveMohnsen
Denver
(kinda frosty out here this morning)

Adams question
 

Dave Mohnsen wrote:


Hi Folks,
Kind of a fun thread for my simple mind.
Some thoughts:
For Stan . . . I never use a "cree". I have one. . . and I used it only as
a base color when I dyed grizzly to compare, when in ancient history I
consulted to a fly manufacturer.
For all, if you want a cree just use Rit dye, with a grizzly neck or saddle.
I used to use a color they called pumpkin. Not sure Rit does it anymore. .
. but you can google it.

Maybe I don't know what a Cree is but I thought it was a neck that has
multiple colors, black, white, ginger/brown on the individual feathers.
If that's the case, how can you dye a grizzly with pumpkin dye and get
cree? I'd think it would just be a "pumpkin" variant (which would
probably be a good hackle).


I found a Whiting neck that has those qualities, multiple colors on the
individual feathers. Not sure if it's a "true" Cree but it ties an
"Adams" with one feather. Great neck! I like variants of all colors
better than solid color hackles (most of the time). To my eye they look
more "buggy" and provide a more indistinct profile.

Willi

Adams question
 

"Willi" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
I found a Whiting neck that has those qualities, multiple colors on the
individual feathers. Not sure if it's a "true" Cree but it ties an
"Adams" with one feather. Great neck! I like variants of all colors
better than solid color hackles (most of the time). To my eye they look
more "buggy" and provide a more indistinct profile.

Willi


There is some disagreement about what a "true cree" is. Here is some info;
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/cree.html

Otherwise, I agree with your commen´ts, and Dave´s as well.

TL
MC

Adams question
 

"Mike Connor" wrote:

There is some disagreement about what a "true cree" is. Here is some info;
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/cree.html

Otherwise, I agree with your commen´ts, and Dave´s as well.

TL
MC


Mike,
You find the very best links. Thanks much for this one.

Chas
remove fly fish to e mail directly