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snipe hunt
I like a "Snipe and Peacock" soft hackle early in the season ... and
A couple days ago I noticed that the commercially purchased item I have in my tying kit is actually called "snipe sub." Being a guy that likes real more than 'sub,' and wanting to tie some up on this dreary day, I just now grabbed the 20gauge and two shells and went for a walk through our pasture. I'm now the proud owner of two dead snipe that are sitting on the counter over there. Not being too bright, or too likely to plan ahea d, I didn't give any pre-thought to how to turn a dead snipe into tying material :-( I'm leaning towards skinning them, coating the meat side with borax and letting them dry someplace ... is this anywhere close to the right procedure? Pointers ? Tips? Comments? Helpful Advise? Attacks? ( so the RD Wolfenberry AbUseNet Club can feel included ;-) Larry ( who is off to look for a scalpel or X-acto knife or single edged razor, or moderately sharp Swiss Army tool, to start the skinning ) |
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"Larry L" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... SNIP Not being too bright, or too likely to plan ahea d, I didn't give any pre-thought to how to turn a dead snipe into tying material :-( I'm leaning towards skinning them, coating the meat side with borax and letting them dry someplace ... is this anywhere close to the right procedure? Pointers ? Tips? Comments? Helpful Advise? Attacks? ( so the RD Wolfenberry AbUseNet Club can feel included ;-) Larry ( who is off to look for a scalpel or X-acto knife or single edged razor, or moderately sharp Swiss Army tool, to start the skinning ) Yep. Clip the wings close to the body, and borax the knuckles. skin the birds, remove all meat etc, and borax the skins When the skin no longer wets the borax, wash the lot, skin and wings in warm soapy water, rinse thoroughly, and allow to dry thoroughly. Place in the freezer for at least three days. Add moth crystals before final storage in zip loc bags or similar. That was it. TL MC |
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"Mike Connor" wrote That was it. Thanks, Mike, I knew I could count on you. |
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"Jonathan Cook" wrote Braggart! Nah, if I was bragging I'd tell about the five consecutive days I got a 10 bird Dove limit ... total shells for the five days ... 50 or the time when two wardens appeared out of the dark and fog as I walked in to hunt ducks on a California refuge. They were checking everyone for extra shells ( the refuge had a 25 limit ), gun plugs, etc. For a seven bird limit, I had 7 steel shot shells ( this was before steel was legally required ) and 3 lead dove loads ( steel wasn't available in small shot sizes for head shots ) for possible cripples and my 12ga over and under. They searched and searched and searched and then sent me on my way. Later, as I was leaving with my limit, one of the same two came out of the weeds and stopped me again. This time it was to tell me that he had followed me and watched me all morning. He and his buddy simply couldn't believe I only brought 10 shells with me and assumed I was up to no good and had a stash somewhere or something evil. I showed him my 7 ducks and the single shell I had left and he said, " Yes, I saw you get them all and shoot that one cripple a couple times. I'm impressed !" There ... now, that, is how to brag G Larry ( who was taught "you do best what you do most" and who used to shoot a whole lot ..... but the real key is to be a good enough hunter that you don't need to be a good shot ) P.S. I suck at fly casting Larry ( trying to maintain humility ) |
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On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 00:03:13 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote: "Jonathan Cook" wrote Braggart! Nah, if I was bragging I'd tell about the five consecutive days I got a 10 bird Dove limit ... total shells for the five days ... 50 or the time when two wardens appeared out of the dark and fog as I walked in to hunt ducks on a California refuge. They were checking everyone for extra shells ( the refuge had a 25 limit ), gun plugs, etc. For a seven bird limit, I had 7 steel shot shells ( this was before steel was legally required ) and 3 lead dove loads ( steel wasn't available in small shot sizes for head shots ) for possible cripples and my 12ga over and under. They searched and searched and searched and then sent me on my way. Later, as I was leaving with my limit, one of the same two came out of the weeds and stopped me again. This time it was to tell me that he had followed me and watched me all morning. He and his buddy simply couldn't believe I only brought 10 shells with me and assumed I was up to no good and had a stash somewhere or something evil. I showed him my 7 ducks and the single shell I had left and he said, " Yes, I saw you get them all and shoot that one cripple a couple times. I'm impressed !" There ... now, that, is how to brag G Larry Larry, there's no delicate way to ask this, but were you adopted? If so, was your real pappy a dashing young SabreTigger pilot? Anyhoo, I have a little shooting story, too. There we were, ol' David Tubb and I, with me doing my best to help him learn a little something about shooting, in spite of the horrendous mosquitoes. Finally, he couldn't take it, and said, "You see that skeeter out there about 1000 yards?" I looked and before I could say anything, he fired. The skeeter was mist. "Um, Tubby, that was a male, didn't you see its pecker?" "Well, yeah, so?" he replied. "Well, it's just cruel to kill wantonly, and besides, it's the females that git ya...see that bitch out there at 1627 yards?" "Uhhhh, yeah, sure, of course..." he lied. I took three rounds out, took my kabar from my slick and nicked up a little spur on the jacket of the first and second, and whipped out my Rollalite and heated the jacket up on the third. I quickly loaded 'em up, and fired in rapid succession. "What the hell?" he asked. "I opened her up with the first, spayed her with the second, and cauterized the incision with the third..." TC, R ....well, OK, so maybe it mighta been 1626 yards... |
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wrote Larry, there's no delicate way to ask this, but were you adopted? If so, was your real pappy a dashing young SabreTigger pilot? Hehe ..... I didn't tell about the times I took 'one shell per bird in the limit' and came home far short of that limit and with zero shells left. I had a lot of self imposed 'rules' to make hunting harder when I was really into it, but I haven't hunted in several years ... those two snipe were the first birds I've harvested in a long time. Training gun dogs as my full time employment gave me far more shooting time than most guys, so I got pretty decent as a wingshot. And, at one point I was a damn fine duck hunter, but I define 'duck hunter' and 'duck shooter' as two different types of people. Both the stories ( dove and duck ) in my last post had their 1 to 1 ratio because I'm patient enough to wait for shots I can make ... something very few hunters I've met can do. But, especially with ducks, if you wait stay hidden and don't try the tougher shots you'll find that the easy ones happen far more often. I suggest that anyone that wants to become a very good duck hunter ( as opposed to shot) carry one shell/ duck in the limit, at least a few days each season ... learning to only move and shoot when you feel certain you can score is a lesson few hunters ever master |
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"Mike Connor" wrote:
Yep. Clip the wings close to the body, and borax the knuckles. skin the birds, remove all meat etc, and borax the skins When the skin no longer wets the borax, wash the lot, skin and wings in warm soapy water, rinse thoroughly, and allow to dry thoroughly. Place in the freezer for at least three days. Add moth crystals before final storage in zip loc bags or similar. That was it. TL MC Mike, I know you're experienced with this. I have some feathers that have been in moth crystals for a long time, and they smell strongly of the stuff. A few years ago I tied some wet flies with these feathers and they just wouldn't catch any fish. I blamed the smell, do you think that makes any sense? I'm sure it wouldn't matter in dries, but nymphs, wets, steelhead, and salmon flies, what do you think? Thanks Chas remove fly fish to e mail directly |
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On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 03:01:17 -0600, chas
wrote: "Mike Connor" wrote: Yep. Clip the wings close to the body, and borax the knuckles. skin the birds, remove all meat etc, and borax the skins When the skin no longer wets the borax, wash the lot, skin and wings in warm soapy water, rinse thoroughly, and allow to dry thoroughly. Place in the freezer for at least three days. Add moth crystals before final storage in zip loc bags or similar. That was it. TL MC Mike, I know you're experienced with this. I have some feathers that have been in moth crystals for a long time, and they smell strongly of the stuff. A few years ago I tied some wet flies with these feathers and they just wouldn't catch any fish. I blamed the smell, do you think that makes any sense? I'm sure it wouldn't matter in dries, but nymphs, wets, steelhead, and salmon flies, what do you think? Thanks Chas remove fly fish to e mail directly Put them in a (fairly, at least) airtight container with some _plain_ charcoal briquettes - i.e., no "self-lighting" type soaked in starter. In the alternative, put them in with a small dish of vinegar. Both tricks are good for a variety of odor problems. For example, a few briquettes under the seat of a car can help keep the air inside "smell neutral." I just ask my SO to save her "run"...er, "ran"...well, whatever they call them.. stockings and use the foot section to keep the dust contained and the charcoal securely under the seats. TC, R |
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"chas" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... SNIP I know you're experienced with this. I have some feathers that have been in moth crystals for a long time, and they smell strongly of the stuff. A few years ago I tied some wet flies with these feathers and they just wouldn't catch any fish. I blamed the smell, do you think that makes any sense? I'm sure it wouldn't matter in dries, but nymphs, wets, steelhead, and salmon flies, what do you think? Thanks Chas remove fly fish to e mail directly I store a large quantity of materials, and a lot of finished flies using napthalene moth balls. I air flies well before I use them, and with wet flies I usually use a good dollop of riverside mud to "treat" them before I use them. I have never noticed any difference in fish catching capabilities, between these flies and "freshly" tied ones, from untreated materials. Napthalene, and Paradichlorbenzene ( The other commonly used crystals), both sublimate strongly, and any residue disappears pretty quickly when the flies or materials are aired. I do think various smells can be detrimental to flies though. I have seen fish spook thirty yards or more downstream of a wading angler, and I am convinced because they got his "scent". I would always try to air my flies well before use. It is not critical with dry flies it seems, as the fish have not much chance to "smell" them, but I have always avoided dressings and the like which cause the fly to produce oily rings etc, as I believe these can indeed be detrimental. I now prefer the modern "hydrostop" dressings. TL MC |
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On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 04:55:52 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote: wrote Larry, there's no delicate way to ask this, but were you adopted? If so, was your real pappy a dashing young SabreTigger pilot? Hehe ..... .....Both the stories ( dove and duck ) in my last post had their 1 to 1 ratio because I'm patient enough to wait for shots I can make ... something very few hunters I've met can do. But, especially with ducks, if you wait stay hidden and don't try the tougher shots you'll find that the easy ones happen far more often. I suggest that anyone that wants to become a very good duck hunter ( as opposed to shot) carry one shell/ duck in the limit, at least a few days each season ... learning to only move and shoot when you feel certain you can score is a lesson few hunters ever master Fair advice, and your good grace my, er, what's the word...what's the word....AHA! "fatuousness" with the shooting shtick is pretty cool...OTOH, I notice you didn't answer the "who's yer daddy?" question...G TC, R |
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"Larry L" said clipped for brevity ( trying to maintain humility )
In 1984 a neighbor from San Pedro & I attended the LA Olympic Skeet shooting venue. After watching them break 25 of 25 I said, "They are pretty good." He said "They're OK." "Whatta do ya mean," sez I. "Do you think you could do better." (Bad choice of words on my part) "Yeah, he said if I shot a lot." "Whatta do ya mean," sez I. "In the 60's I was 1st of two alternates on the 10 man US Army Skeet team," he said. OOPS, I thought g. "What did the 2nd alternate shoot," I asked. "498 out of 500," he said. "What did you shoot," I asked. "499 out of 500,' he said. "What did the 10 guys on the team shoot," I asked. "500 out of 500. "That why I was an alternate," he said. "Never could break 500." After this discussion I knew I'd never be able to improve my shooting to get a lot of feathers for fly tying because I'd never shoot enough to hit much. Hats off to you guys that shoot well and shoot a lot! Good luck! John |
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"Mike Connor" wrote:
I store a large quantity of materials, and a lot of finished flies using napthalene moth balls. I air flies well before I use them, and with wet flies I usually use a good dollop of riverside mud to "treat" them before I use them. I have never noticed any difference in fish catching capabilities, between these flies and "freshly" tied ones, from untreated materials. Napthalene, and Paradichlorbenzene ( The other commonly used crystals), both sublimate strongly, and any residue disappears pretty quickly when the flies or materials are aired. I do think various smells can be detrimental to flies though. I have seen fish spook thirty yards or more downstream of a wading angler, and I am convinced because they got his "scent". I would always try to air my flies well before use. It is not critical with dry flies it seems, as the fish have not much chance to "smell" them, but I have always avoided dressings and the like which cause the fly to produce oily rings etc, as I believe these can indeed be detrimental. I now prefer the modern "hydrostop" dressings. TL MC Thanks Mike. I'm going to try rdean's idea with the charcoal. I'm a bit concerned that the Vinegar might effect the dyes. I wonder about disturbing fish 30 feet downstream. It's awfully hard to be silent, and impossible to avoid stirring silt off the bottom. Off hand I'd put scent below those unless I knew more about the wader. ;-) I know what you mean about the scent disipating on it's own, but I was overenthusiastic years ago when I put the mothballs in this box, and it's really a strong smell. A smart guy in my position would have thrown the old stuff away years ago, recognizing that there's nothing of great value there. Chas remove fly fish to e mail directly |
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"chas" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... SNIP Thanks Mike. I'm going to try rdean's idea with the charcoal. I'm a bit concerned that the Vinegar might effect the dyes. I wonder about disturbing fish 30 feet downstream. It's awfully hard to be silent, and impossible to avoid stirring silt off the bottom. Off hand I'd put scent below those unless I knew more about the wader. ;-) I know what you mean about the scent disipating on it's own, but I was overenthusiastic years ago when I put the mothballs in this box, and it's really a strong smell. A smart guy in my position would have thrown the old stuff away years ago, recognizing that there's nothing of great value there. Chas remove fly fish to e mail directly If you want to get the smell off the materials quickly, just wash them in warm soapy water, rinse thoroughly, and let them dry. The charcoal will work, but even better is a box of silica gel. You can obtain this at any flower shop, it is used for drying plants, among other things. It is very loud indeed in a river. Wading is hardly heard even at a comparatively short distance. Rocks, silt, etc etc are moving all the time, and water rushing üast obstructions makes a very loud noise. I don“t worry about noise at all, but I do worry about scent. TL MC |
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"Mike Connor" wrote in
: It is very loud indeed in a river. Wading is hardly heard even at a comparatively short distance. Rocks, silt, etc etc are moving all the time, and water rushing ast obstructions makes a very loud noise. I donļt worry about noise at all, but I do worry about scent. TL MC I worry alot about noise, but I think this is relatively low range. The lateral line system is exquisite for sensing vibration, and is a huge hunting tool in some situations. -- Scott Reverse name to reply |
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"Mike Connor" wrote:
If you want to get the smell off the materials quickly, just wash them in warm soapy water, rinse thoroughly, and let them dry. The charcoal will work, but even better is a box of silica gel. You can obtain this at any flower shop, it is used for drying plants, among other things. The best ideas yet, thanks. It is very loud indeed in a river. Wading is hardly heard even at a comparatively short distance. Rocks, silt, etc etc are moving all the time, and water rushing üast obstructions makes a very loud noise. I don“t worry about noise at all, but I do worry about scent. Interesting. I know what you mean, but these disturbances all follow patterns that the fish are used to, when the pattern changes I think (but don't actually know) they are alerted. It could be much like the way we can pick a familiar voice out of a throng, or recognize a friend at a distance by some subtle nuance of motion. I'm going to think about testing this, off hand it seems like it would be hard to get a good test that wasn't muddled by too many variables. Thanks, Chas Chas remove fly fish to e mail directly |
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On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 00:36:33 -0600, chas
wrote: (snipped) Interesting. I know what you mean, but these disturbances all follow patterns that the fish are used to, when the pattern changes I think (but don't actually know) they are alerted. It could be much like the way we can pick a familiar voice out of a throng, or recognize a friend at a distance by some subtle nuance of motion. I'm going to think about testing this, off hand it seems like it would be hard to get a good test that wasn't muddled by too many variables. Try to walk like a deer? They generally step in the water one slow step at a time, stop and have a drink, maybe do another bodily function or two, and then move on a bit or get out of the water. I don't know what they do between knee level and swimming level, though. But there are very often deer walking / swimming across trout streams. Otters disturb the bottom, too. Think of all the things that do disturb the silt and then try to move like that? Cyli r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels. Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. http://www.visi.com/~cyli email: lid (strip the .invalid to email) |
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chas wrote:
Interesting. I know what you mean, but these disturbances all follow patterns that the fish are used to, when the pattern changes I think (but don't actually know) they are alerted. It could be much like the way we can pick a familiar voice out of a throng, or recognize a friend at a distance by some subtle nuance of motion. I'm going to think about testing this, off hand it seems like it would be hard to get a good test that wasn't muddled by too many variables. I agree with this "pattern change" and the acclimation you're talking about. Through in frequent interacts with humans and a variety of "different" behaviors occurs. Here's a few of my personal observations. My home river, as it goes through town, has a bike path along the side on one bank. The path is heavily used by bikers, horseback riders, joggers, walkers, kids etc. In several areas, the fish will move into shallow water to feed during a hatch and are undisturbed by the people passing by. However, if you stop on the path to watch them feed, unless you are behind a tree or bush, they will spook off into the depths. The fish will continue to surface feed while ducks, muskrats, beavers, etc swim in their midst, even during low, slow water conditions. I even had a beaver do a tail slap one evening while fishing the hatch and the fish continued to feed. A dog going for a swim, even at a distance, will put down the fish. For the fisherman, these fish are VERY difficult. When these fish are feeding in shallow water, even a small "wave", a push of water or a couple rocks clunked together when wading will spook the fish back into deep water. A "less than good" cast will do the same. Fish learn and acclimate themselves to their surroundings including interactions with humans. Heavily fished C&R rivers give some of the best examples. The "San Juan Shuffle" where fish are attracted to wading anglers is the most "famous" example. On some of these heavily rivers, the fish have learned to avoid strike indicators. The indicators don't spook the fish, but as they pass over the fish, the fish will move a foot or so into a different feeding lane and continue feeding often returning to their original feeding lane after a few seconds. Although this is an oversimplification, naive trout spook easily but are tolerant of "mistakes" in presentation and fly selection. Heavily fished over fish can be easily approached but are demanding in terms of both presentation and fly selection. Willi |
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Cyli wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 00:36:33 -0600, chas wrote: (snipped) Interesting. I know what you mean, but these disturbances all follow patterns that the fish are used to, when the pattern changes I think (but don't actually know) they are alerted. It could be much like the way we can pick a familiar voice out of a throng, or recognize a friend at a distance by some subtle nuance of motion. I'm going to think about testing this, off hand it seems like it would be hard to get a good test that wasn't muddled by too many variables. Try to walk like a deer? They generally step in the water one slow step at a time, stop and have a drink, maybe do another bodily function or two, and then move on a bit or get out of the water. I don't know what they do between knee level and swimming level, though. But there are very often deer walking / swimming across trout streams. Otters disturb the bottom, too. Think of all the things that do disturb the silt and then try to move like that? Cyli What I was concerned about was trying to make only 1 disturbance and trying to observer the trout at the same time to see if just that one disturbance bothered them. Just getting close enough to see the trout is often enough to spook them. Trying to only make noise, but not have them see you or see waves you make is difficult. I suppose the watching could be done by a second stealthy observer. As for the deer, I'm sure they disturb trout often. Trout are often skittish, but what bothers them is largely a function of what they are used to. The cutthroat in the Yellowstone in the park in August have seen so many people wading around that they don't even flinch when you walk in and bend over to watch them eat tiny nymphs. Those fish wouldn't be the ones to try this test with. I suspect the opposite end of the spectrum would be steelhead in low water. My point is that it's hard to devise a way to determine experimentally what sort of things disturb trout, and what sort of things are not a problem because it's hard to all at once 1) observe the trout without them knowing it, 2) make just one sort of disturbance, and 3) determine if the fish were bothered by that disturbance. Presuming success in this, then we just know about that one fish or group of fish, now we need to run the experiment on other fish populations. Chas remove fly fish to e mail directly |
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Willi wrote:
My home river, as it goes through town, has a bike path along the side on one bank. The path is heavily used by bikers, horseback riders, joggers, walkers, kids etc. In several areas, the fish will move into shallow water to feed during a hatch and are undisturbed by the people passing by. However, if you stop on the path to watch them feed, unless you are behind a tree or bush, they will spook off into the depths. I've been seeing this same behavior in eagles. Moving cars and trucks are no problem, stop the car and watch and often the birds will continue to feed on a salmon carcas, but just get out of the car and the eagle flies up into a tree. And yes, all the rest of your post fits with my experience. I wonder about fish in Germany where they don't allow catch and release. Most of the fish in the river have never been hooked, so they aren't educated about fishermen, but they have seen people stumbling around on the banks and in the river. Mike, do you see a difference in behavior in Germany from other countries? Chas remove fly fish to e mail directly |
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"chas" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... Willi wrote: My home river, as it goes through town, has a bike path along the side on one bank. The path is heavily used by bikers, horseback riders, joggers, walkers, kids etc. In several areas, the fish will move into shallow water to feed during a hatch and are undisturbed by the people passing by. However, if you stop on the path to watch them feed, unless you are behind a tree or bush, they will spook off into the depths. I've been seeing this same behavior in eagles. Moving cars and trucks are no problem, stop the car and watch and often the birds will continue to feed on a salmon carcas, but just get out of the car and the eagle flies up into a tree. And yes, all the rest of your post fits with my experience. I wonder about fish in Germany where they don't allow catch and release. Most of the fish in the river have never been hooked, so they aren't educated about fishermen, but they have seen people stumbling around on the banks and in the river. Mike, do you see a difference in behavior in Germany from other countries? Chas remove fly fish to e mail directly Nope, my general experiences are much the same as Willi“s. Some behaviour is obviously water and environment specific. As I have never fished on catch and release water, I simply am not qualified to comment on behaviour which may be observed there. On compulsory catch and kill water, the vast majority of fish have indeed been hooked before, as undersized fish, or out of season, when one is obliged to release them. Catch and kill only requires that legally sizeable and otherwise takeable fish be killed, all the others must be released. This affects the number and size of fish in any such water, but it does not seem to affect their behaviour much at all. TL MC |
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