Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

http://missoulian.com/articles/2005/...cal/news02.txt

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

"Jimbo" wrote in message
ups.com...
http://missoulian.com/articles/2005/...cal/news02.txt

Where have you been? This is old news back to November and has been
discussed ad nauseum on other forums. As I understand it, it was not about
politics as who was going to replace Brackett when he retired. Sad to see
Winston going through these changes, Brackett was always courteous and
forthright on the few discussions we had and what he had with others from
what I understand. If I was in the market for a Winston boo, I sure wouldn't
be paying 3K for a rod made by someone with three month's training but we
will see what transpires. All the press and internet postings has been the
boo boys' story, Winston has made no public statement other than
acknowledging the resignation, their service, wishing them well, and stating
the product line will continue. As a bamboo lover, I hate to see the change.
As a manager I sure don't like that they can't just resign quietly and
leave.

What is sadder is that Winston and now St. Croix felt they had to outsource
their *entry* level rods to asia to get the price point down to the
neighborhood of the Cabela's and TFO's of the world. Well some of you got
your "just as good cheap rods". Sooner, than later you will be kissing your
local fly shop good bye.

I just started reading Jerry Kustick's new book, he certainly loved the
conditions under which he did work.

Wayne

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

I understand it's old news, but it was on the front page of the
Missoulian today. By the way I do own one of the lower end rods before
it was outsourced to China, and it's an excellent rod - a good bit
superior tothe Sage/St. Croix stuff in the same price range.

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 11:04:26 -0500, Wayne Knight wrote:

"Jimbo" wrote in message
ups.com...
http://missoulian.com/articles/2005/...cal/news02.txt

Where have you been? This is old news back to November and has been
discussed ad nauseum on other forums. As I understand it, it was not about
politics as who was going to replace Brackett when he retired. Sad to see
Winston going through these changes, Brackett was always courteous and
forthright on the few discussions we had and what he had with others from
what I understand. If I was in the market for a Winston boo, I sure wouldn't
be paying 3K for a rod made by someone with three month's training but we
will see what transpires. All the press and internet postings has been the
boo boys' story, Winston has made no public statement other than
acknowledging the resignation, their service, wishing them well, and stating
the product line will continue. As a bamboo lover, I hate to see the change.
As a manager I sure don't like that they can't just resign quietly and
leave.

What is sadder is that Winston and now St. Croix felt they had to outsource
their *entry* level rods to asia to get the price point down to the
neighborhood of the Cabela's and TFO's of the world. Well some of you got
your "just as good cheap rods". Sooner, than later you will be kissing your
local fly shop good bye.

I just started reading Jerry Kustick's new book, he certainly loved the
conditions under which he did work.

Wayne

You mention that you are a bamboo lover, so could you assist me?

I recently picked up a used split bamboo rod with the name "Montague".
It has two tips, with a reversible handle. Can be used as a 9ft
flyrod, or 6 ft casting rod. I would like to get a handle on when the
rod was made, and whether it is safe to use one of these older rods?
Do they get brittle with age? What is the advantage of the cane over
newer carbon fibre rods? You mention that there are other groups where
these are discussed, could you point me in their direction? Thanks OvO

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

From: RkyMtnHootOwl
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Reply-To:
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 14:00:49 -0700
Subject: Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?


You mention that you are a bamboo lover, so could you assist me?

I recently picked up a used split bamboo rod with the name "Montague".
It has two tips, with a reversible handle. Can be used as a 9ft
flyrod, or 6 ft casting rod. I would like to get a handle on when the
rod was made, and whether it is safe to use one of these older rods?
Do they get brittle with age? What is the advantage of the cane over
newer carbon fibre rods? You mention that there are other groups where
these are discussed, could you point me in their direction? Thanks OvO


i'm not wayne but allow me:

http://p205.ezboard.com/bclarksclassicflyrodforum

if you're looking for practical personal in-use advantages of a cane rod
over graphite, from what i've gathered you're going to have to find a better
representation than the montague. they were/are considered very low end.
very low end.

by the way, it is NOT safe to use an older (good) bamboo rod, or newer one
for that matter. there is a good chance you'll come to appreciate fine
bamboo fly rods, all diposable income and savings will go to acquiring
various tapers, lengths, weights, etc. marriages have suffered, livelyhoods
have been compromised, typical fly snobbery will reach untold levels. but
you'll be happier.

eric
fresno, ca.

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

Wayne Knight wrote:
I just started reading Jerry Kustick's new book, he certainly loved the
conditions under which he did work.


He made a decent living doing something he very
much enjoyed doing, and he had a *lot* of time to
travel, fish, and (occasionally) write about.

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

Buy a Tom Morgan rod.
http://troutrods.com

They (bamboo and graphite) are available
via phone call, via email or by personal visit.
The 5wt bamboo rod is the finest rod I've felt
in my hand. I don't really know that much about bamboo
rods, but I do have several older Winston
rods made in the San Fransisco shop, before the move
to Twin Bridges. And the current rods are unquestionably the best.

They are not cheap, by any standard.
But they will likely double in value within a year or two.
Sooner rather than later anyway.
Tom doesn't plan on making them much longer.

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

"RkyMtnHootOwl" wrote in message
. ..

I recently picked up a used split bamboo rod with the name "Montague".
It has two tips, with a reversible handle. Can be used as a 9ft
flyrod, or 6 ft casting rod. I would like to get a handle on when the
rod was made, and whether it is safe to use one of these older rods?
Do they get brittle with age?

montague was a production rod maker in the early to mid 90's. The rods show
up frequently in peoples attics. Generally speaking they have little value
to collectors and some say fishing a 9' cane rod is no fun. If the rod is in
fishable shape, then by all means fish with it you would like. Most of the
Montagues I have seen have been in poor shape and needed work.

What is the advantage of the cane over
newer carbon fibre rods?

There are those who will tell you that nothing made of cane is as good as a
graphite rod so you will have to form your own opinion. I believe that cane
rods are more forgiving of casting mistakes and are a better fish fighting
tool because the fibers will flex all the way to the butt section, making it
more protective of the tippets. The average caster can generally cast
farther with a faster action graphite rod than a cane rod, and again a 9'
cane rod will wear some people out after a full day of casting. And most
folks don;t use cane in salt water or heavy freshwater applications.

You mention that there are other groups where
these are discussed, could you point me in their direction?

http://p205.ezboard.com/bclarksclassicflyrodforum
http://vfish.net/
www.flyfisherman.net
www.rodbuildingforum.com

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

Buy a Tom Morgan rod.

I did and took delivery in 2000. A very sweet 8' 3pc 4wt. Graphite, not
cane. As much as I'd like to own one of his boo's, I can't really justify
the cost.

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

"Wayne Knight" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
. ..
wrote in message
oups.com...

Buy a Tom Morgan rod.

I did and took delivery in 2000. A very sweet 8' 3pc 4wt. Graphite, not
cane. As much as I'd like to own one of his boo's, I can't really justify
the cost.



Thinking back, I never really could justify the cost of many things, but I
got a lot of them anyway. Can´t say I regret it. What price a moments
happiness, or or even just the illusion of such? If a "thing" can make you
happy, even for a short time, then it is priceless.

Having something really nice to fish with is a wonderful experience, the
money does not really matter, assuming one can afford to do it all.

TL
MC

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 21:07:40 -0500, Wayne Knight wrote:

"RkyMtnHootOwl" wrote in message
. ..

I recently picked up a used split bamboo rod with the name "Montague".
It has two tips, with a reversible handle. Can be used as a 9ft
flyrod, or 6 ft casting rod. I would like to get a handle on when the
rod was made, and whether it is safe to use one of these older rods?
Do they get brittle with age?

montague was a production rod maker in the early to mid 90's. The rods show
up frequently in peoples attics. Generally speaking they have little value
to collectors and some say fishing a 9' cane rod is no fun. If the rod is in
fishable shape, then by all means fish with it you would like. Most of the
Montagues I have seen have been in poor shape and needed work.

What is the advantage of the cane over
newer carbon fibre rods?

There are those who will tell you that nothing made of cane is as good as a
graphite rod so you will have to form your own opinion. I believe that cane
rods are more forgiving of casting mistakes and are a better fish fighting
tool because the fibers will flex all the way to the butt section, making it
more protective of the tippets. The average caster can generally cast
farther with a faster action graphite rod than a cane rod, and again a 9'
cane rod will wear some people out after a full day of casting. And most
folks don;t use cane in salt water or heavy freshwater applications.

You mention that there are other groups where
these are discussed, could you point me in their direction?

http://p205.ezboard.com/bclarksclassicflyrodforum
http://vfish.net/
www.flyfisherman.net
www.rodbuildingforum.com

Thanks Wayne and Eric for your info. I will probably try fishing with
it come spring, and see what I think. I have wondered what made the
difference in some of the high end rods that you see for sale. Is
there a difference in the cane, or just the finishing? Seems the cane
being a natural substance, should not be the main factor, but then
there are different grades of lumber, so probably the same holds for
cane. How do you tell the difference?

I previously found a couple of rods in a crawl space that I gave to my
brother-in-law, who took them to Wright McGill here in Denver. They
refinished, with new guides and farrells, no charge, and offered him
$500 ea for them. I was really surprised because I did not realize at
the time that they were worth that kind of money. He did not offer me
any of the bounty, but it would be nice to know what makes the
difference. OvO

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

"RkyMtnHootOwl" wrote in message
...

I was really surprised because I did not realize at
the time that they were worth that kind of money. He did not offer me
any of the bounty, but it would be nice to know what makes the
difference.

I would say that would be the last time I gave your brother in law anything
but that is your choice ;)

If it makes you feel any better, $500 for a cane rod is on the low end of
the spectrum. Plus if they offered him $500 ea, they probably offered them
for sale higher than that. There are people out there who make a living
valuing and selling fishing tackle. But generally speaking cane rods that
are less than 8' in length, in good condition, and made by a now dead maker
are worth more to collectors. Gary Howells was a well known maker who
passed away in the past few years. His rods always commanded a premium but
since his death I've not seen one offered for sale for under $3,800. Even
tho the basic material is the same (tonkin bamboo), different makers use
different tapers to impart different actions to their rods. From different
eras the glues and varnish were different. I am not a collector, I like to
fish with cane. I know a guy in Atlanta that has a rather nice assortment of
cane rods, all kept in a gun safe never to see the water in his hands. I
think that's a sin.

So enjoy your montague, if you want to explore cane there are many ways to
do it accross the price spectrum. South Bend and Heddon made servicable
rods, they're prices are going up but still less than most rods. AJ Thramer
and other builders still make cane rods for under a grand if you want
something newer.

Wayne

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

Thinking back, I never really could justify the cost of many things, but I
got a lot of them anyway. Can´t say I regret it. What price a moments
happiness, or or even just the illusion of such? If a "thing" can make you
happy, even for a short time, then it is priceless.

Having something really nice to fish with is a wonderful experience, the
money does not really matter, assuming one can afford to do it all.

I agree having something nice to fish with is a wonderful experence at time.
But I think too many people confuse deriving pleasure from something, the
same as finding happiness with it.

As many long time readers here know, I have a larger than average collection
of rods and reels. Money has always been an object but I have been in a
position to acquire those things. But a fine rod is still no substitute for
better skills on and off the water as you well know.

If I really *had* to have a Tom Morgan Bamboo rod, then I would find a way
to obtain one. I am sure Sandy is right in it's action and it would be joy
to fish. But for something much less than $3,850 plus shippin, I could
enjoy a George Mauer, Bob Summers, or Dwight Lyons made rod and get
something else ;)

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

"Wayne Knight" wrote in message
. ..

What is sadder is that Winston and now St. Croix felt they had to
outsource their *entry* level rods to asia to get the price point down to
the neighborhood of the Cabela's and TFO's of the world.

The price of the St Croix Premier rods has gone up not stayed the same or
gone down. Do they have a lower end series?


--
Bob La Londe
http://www.YumaBassMan.com

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

"Wayne Knight" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
If I really *had* to have a Tom Morgan Bamboo rod, then I would find a way
to obtain one. I am sure Sandy is right in it's action and it would be joy
to fish. But for something much less than $3,850 plus shippin, I could
enjoy a George Mauer, Bob Summers, or Dwight Lyons made rod and get
something else ;)


I know what you mean of course, but these things can be very difficult to
explain. In a recent exchange I had on vices, basically on the eternal
question "which is the best vice", I was eventually obliged to answer in the
words of an old Yorkshire mentor, "If you have to think about it, don´t do
it".

I have not fished a cane rod now for nearly forty years. Don´t really know
why not, other things seemed more important. Perhaps I will again one day.

TL
MC

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

Bob La Londe wrote:

The price of the St Croix Premier rods has gone up not stayed the same or
gone down. Do they have a lower end series?


I believe they are calling it the Reign series.

There is a letter supposedly written by the president of the St. Croix
company as a result of some internet postings and comments about
importing the rods and some other stuff. If you or anyone else is
interested, you can find a copy at this link.

http://www.uppermidwestflyfishing.co...opic.php?t=764

Winston top bamboo rod makers pushed out for being liberals?
 

Wayne Knight wrote:

in the early to mid 90's.

That should have been early to mid 1900's