A lesson with Lefty
 

The International Sportsmen Expo this past weekend was pretty darn good for
me. I finally got to meet Lefty Kreh in person and watch his demonstration.
He put to rest a lot of questions I've had and some of the questions that
were asked in roff. Lefty is quite a character and for his age of 81, his
senses and skills are still very keen.



Unfortunately Lefty now has rotator cuff (yes got from casting) and has
changed his casting technique from his early days. He told me he doesn't
want to see anyone get this problem as his casting style is almost sideways
now. I'll have to analyze this more.



During his demonstration Left made a few 70' cast with just half of a 9'
rod, using only the 4 ½' end section, with tight loops. That tells me you
don't need an expensive rod to make good cast. Then he pieces the rod back
together, gets down on his knees and effortlessly makes another 70' tight
loop cast, so you don't need a long rod or raise the hand up high, or be 7'
tall to make long cast either. Oh, the rod he was using was a fresh off the
rack TFO TiCr 9', 6wt 4pc which still had the plastic wrap on the cork.



After his lecture he asked for a volunteer from the standing room audience.
Years ago I remember a local fly-shop paying Left $2000, divided among 20
serious anglers to have him fly out here to CA and give a 1 hour lecture
with a 1 hour hands on class. Since no one wanted to make a fool out of
themselves, I thought this is my chance to volunteer a lesson with one of
the greatest casters in the world for the price of my ticket to the show.
For that I think I could tolerate embarrassment and be the guinea pig. After
he asked my name and put the rod in my hands, he had me make a cast the way
I normally do. I made a 60' cast and on the microphone loud and clear Lefty's
famous line: "Tom didn't listen to anything I was saying!" as the crowd
roared with laughter. Then he corrected me on 2 ever-so-slight
technicalities, keeping the wrist straighter on the backcast, and stop the
rod a touch higher on the forward cast. I'll have to admit, I was a bit
nervous standing in front of everyone with Lefty at my side. I made my
second cast and was ready for more embarrassment, but to my surprise he
blurts out; "Make another cast!" I make another 60' cast as I'm feeling
pretty comfortable now, he then whispers to me, "you got it down?" with his
warm smile. I nod my head yes, then he gets on the mic and yells; "Anyone
worst than Tom?" I felt pretty relieved thinking it could have been worst. I
continued to walk around the show, but came out empty-handed except for
something I'll remember for the rest of my life.

-tom

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote...
The International Sportsmen Expo this past weekend was pretty darn good
for me. I finally got to meet Lefty Kreh in person and watch his
demonstration.


snip
I
continued to walk around the show, but came out empty-handed except for
something I'll remember for the rest of my life.

-tom

I'd say that's about as far from "empty-handed" as a boy can hope for. Very
nice story.

Dan
(green with envy.....)

A lesson with Lefty
 

Tom Nakashima typed:
The International Sportsmen Expo this past weekend was pretty darn
good for me. I finally got to meet Lefty Kreh in person and watch
his demonstration.

Stan Gula got to meet Lefty in person, but refused to shake his hand. Go
figure.

We watched his casting demo, and I really should have volunteered as the
shill for his instruction. My casting needs a lot of work as a result of
self-teaching and having a poor teacher. My favorite part of his demo is
when he breaks the rod apart and continues to make accurate, long casts with
the last 4 feet of the rod.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...
The International Sportsmen Expo this past weekend was pretty darn good
for me. I finally got to meet Lefty Kreh in person and watch his
demonstration. He put to rest a lot of questions I've had and some of the
questions that were asked in roff. Lefty is quite a character and for his
age of 81, his senses and skills are still very keen.


Neat story Tom,

Thanks for sharing!

JT

A lesson with Lefty
 

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:07:47 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:

SNIP

Glad you had a good time. Did ya feel all stimulated, targeted, and
ready, willing, and able to buy? G

During his demonstration Left made a few 70' cast with just half of a 9'
rod, using only the 4 ½' end section, with tight loops. That tells me you
don't need an expensive rod to make good cast.

SNIP

The key word is _cast_. Top-section casting is more of a "trick" than a
"skill" beyond "regular" casting. If you normally tend toward graphite
mid-flex rods, you're already (basically) doing it. Try it yourself,
gently at first so as to not damage the section, and I think you'll be
surprised how easy you'll find it, although it may take a little
practice. and "getting your mind around the concept," as it were. Just
don't ever try to fish for anything beyond the smallest and weakest of
quarry without a lower portion unless it's a top section to which you
have no particular attachment.

Remember, casting and fishing are two distinct activities that for most
folks just happen to be done consecutively and mostly thought of as a
single activity. Tournament casting rods and lines wouldn't be
appropriate fishing gear for most folks/quarry, and very few "fishing"
rods and lines would make even marginal tournament casting rigs - the
lines would be totally useless.

TC,
R

A lesson with Lefty
 

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:07:47 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:

SNIP

Glad you had a good time. Did ya feel all stimulated, targeted, and
ready, willing, and able to buy? G

Not at all did I feel stimulated, targeted or willing to buy, I already know
the intention of the vendors at these shows, I don't even eat there. I just
went to see the "Man".
-tom

A lesson with Lefty
 

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:32:25 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:07:47 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:

SNIP

Glad you had a good time. Did ya feel all stimulated, targeted, and
ready, willing, and able to buy? G

Not at all did I feel stimulated, targeted or willing to buy, I already know
the intention of the vendors at these shows, I don't even eat there. I just
went to see the "Man".
-tom

Hmmm...a touchy subject, but I wish people wouldn't consider guys like
Lefty Kreh the "Man." Not because of him or anything about him - he's a
decent enough guy with a great deal of fishing and casting experience,
but casting and fishing aren't such to produce "superstars," albeit the
fans can certainly do so. And to their detriment, IMO.

Reaching the top tier of many sports is objectively and simply out of
the range of all but a relatively few people. They simply aren't
physically equipped, and cannot become physically equipped, by means
fair or foul, to reach it, regardless of choices they might make. But
skills and "tricks" such as practiced upon, developed, and learned by
Kreh are well within the reach of most people, should they make the
choice to practice and develop them. Becoming an excellent, even "top
tier" caster is well within the physical reach of a good many people,
and becoming a good fisher all the more so.

TC,
R

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...
The International Sportsmen Expo this past weekend was pretty darn good
for me. I finally got to meet Lefty Kreh in person and watch his
demonstration.
(snip)
He told me he doesn't
want to see anyone get this problem as his casting style is almost
sideways -tom
Hi Tom,
Good for you. And it was brave of you to volunteer. I've met him a couple
times. . .must have been shows. (heh . . .heh . . .and I'm sure he would
remember me) My questions usually took the form of pretty much some alien
language . . . but he was courteous.
Glad you got to play . .in front of a lot of folks. :)
You'll keep this memory)
BestWishes,
DaveMohnsen
Denver
(uhh . . . and I've always seen his cast as quite a bit to the side . . .
where animals,birds, insects, and plants quiver at my approach . . .and cast
.. . .apparently no problem to the fish though . . .they just ignore me)

A lesson with Lefty
 

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:32:25 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:07:47 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:

SNIP

Glad you had a good time. Did ya feel all stimulated, targeted, and
ready, willing, and able to buy? G

Not at all did I feel stimulated, targeted or willing to buy, I already
know
the intention of the vendors at these shows, I don't even eat there. I
just
went to see the "Man".
-tom


Hmmm...a touchy subject, but I wish people wouldn't consider guys like
Lefty Kreh the "Man." Not because of him or anything about him - he's a
decent enough guy with a great deal of fishing and casting experience,
but casting and fishing aren't such to produce "superstars," albeit the
fans can certainly do so. And to their detriment, IMO.

The term "Man" is just an expression, just like you using "R"
Lefty is indeed like you said "knows a great deal of fishing and casting
experience" and explains his principals and techniques very well. I
actually
learned quite a bit in his presentation.


Reaching the top tier of many sports is objectively and simply out of
the range of all but a relatively few people. They simply aren't
physically equipped, and cannot become physically equipped, by means
fair or foul, to reach it, regardless of choices they might make. But
skills and "tricks" such as practiced upon, developed, and learned by
Kreh are well within the reach of most people, should they make the
choice to practice and develop them. Becoming an excellent, even "top
tier" caster is well within the physical reach of a good many people,
and becoming a good fisher all the more so.

TC,
R

I'm not sure Left Kreh is at the top of his tier anymore at age 81, just by
nature that skills start to decline with age as I'm sure you already know.
As I mentioned earlier, he now has rotator cuff (from casting). He is
however still very sharp, and a great communicator.
I have been spending some time at the Golden Gate Casting Club. One thing I
noticed is there are many darn good casters out there, most unknown. I also
noticed Fly-fishing is not limited on physical features of having to be
muscular or regardless of gender as in other sports, and with a little
patients and practice, anyone can put what they have learned to use on the
water.

Oh, btw: I notice you don't use your real name when posting, R who? can I
call you "The Man"?
-tom

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Dave Mohnsen" wrote in message
k.net...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...
The International Sportsmen Expo this past weekend was pretty darn good
for me. I finally got to meet Lefty Kreh in person and watch his
demonstration.
(snip)
He told me he doesn't
want to see anyone get this problem as his casting style is almost
sideways -tom
Hi Tom,
Good for you. And it was brave of you to volunteer. I've met him a
couple times. . .must have been shows. (heh . . .heh . . .and I'm sure he
would remember me) My questions usually took the form of pretty much some
alien language . . . but he was courteous.
Glad you got to play . .in front of a lot of folks. :)
You'll keep this memory)
BestWishes,
DaveMohnsen
Denver
(uhh . . . and I've always seen his cast as quite a bit to the side . . .
where animals,birds, insects, and plants quiver at my approach . . .and
cast . . .apparently no problem to the fish though . . .they just ignore
me)


Thanks Dave,
I wonder myself if I scare the fish more than I present a good fly.
-tom

A lesson with Lefty
 

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:07:47 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:

The International Sportsmen Expo this past weekend was pretty darn good for
me. I finally got to meet Lefty Kreh in person and watch his demonstration.
He put to rest a lot of questions I've had and some of the questions that
were asked in roff. Lefty is quite a character and for his age of 81, his
senses and skills are still very keen.

I'm going to the Atlanta show this weekend and he'll be there. I finally got to
meet him last year and got him to autograph one of his books that I 'just
happened' to have with me. g I still don't have the nerve to volunteer to be a
casting 'lesson', though - good for you that you did.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

"Dave Mohnsen" wrote in message
k.net...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...
The International Sportsmen Expo this past weekend was pretty darn good
for me. I finally got to meet Lefty Kreh in person and watch his
demonstration.
(snip)
He told me he doesn't
want to see anyone get this problem as his casting style is almost
sideways -tom
Hi Tom,
Good for you. And it was brave of you to volunteer. I've met him a
couple times. . .must have been shows. (heh . . .heh . . .and I'm sure
he would remember me) My questions usually took the form of pretty much
some alien language . . . but he was courteous.
Glad you got to play . .in front of a lot of folks. :)
You'll keep this memory)
BestWishes,
DaveMohnsen
Denver
(uhh . . . and I've always seen his cast as quite a bit to the side . . .
where animals,birds, insects, and plants quiver at my approach . . .and
cast . . .apparently no problem to the fish though . . .they just ignore
me)


Thanks Dave,
I wonder myself if I scare the fish more than I present a good fly.
-tom




Probably not you as he was a Caucasian guy, who Lefty said looked like he
was chopping wood, when I went by. After a couple of minutes the guy was
casting farily well.

A lesson with Lefty
 

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:16:30 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:32:25 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:07:47 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:

SNIP

Glad you had a good time. Did ya feel all stimulated, targeted, and
ready, willing, and able to buy? G

Not at all did I feel stimulated, targeted or willing to buy, I already
know
the intention of the vendors at these shows, I don't even eat there. I
just
went to see the "Man".
-tom


Hmmm...a touchy subject, but I wish people wouldn't consider guys like
Lefty Kreh the "Man." Not because of him or anything about him - he's a
decent enough guy with a great deal of fishing and casting experience,
but casting and fishing aren't such to produce "superstars," albeit the
fans can certainly do so. And to their detriment, IMO.

The term "Man" is just an expression, just like you using "R"

No, it isn't...at all...well, unless he changes his name and starts
posting to ROFF using "M" as a sign-off...

Lefty is indeed like you said "knows a great deal of fishing and casting
experience" and explains his principals and techniques very well. I
actually learned quite a bit in his presentation.


Reaching the top tier of many sports is objectively and simply out of
the range of all but a relatively few people. They simply aren't
physically equipped, and cannot become physically equipped, by means
fair or foul, to reach it, regardless of choices they might make. But
skills and "tricks" such as practiced upon, developed, and learned by
Kreh are well within the reach of most people, should they make the
choice to practice and develop them. Becoming an excellent, even "top
tier" caster is well within the physical reach of a good many people,
and becoming a good fisher all the more so.

TC,
R

I'm not sure Left Kreh is at the top of his tier anymore at age 81,

Let's just say that he might not be as good as he once was, but he's as
good once as he ever was...and here's the cool thing - you can be,
too...

just by
nature that skills start to decline with age as I'm sure you already know.
As I mentioned earlier, he now has rotator cuff (from casting). He is
however still very sharp, and a great communicator.
I have been spending some time at the Golden Gate Casting Club. One thing I
noticed is there are many darn good casters out there, most unknown.

Much as is one B. "Lefty" Kreh to the great majority of folks in the US,
not to mention those on this planet...well, at least until his version
of "Oops, I Did It Again" goes into heavy rotation on MTV...

I also
noticed Fly-fishing is not limited on physical features of having to be
muscular or regardless of gender as in other sports, and with a little
patients and practice, anyone can put what they have learned to use on the
water.

Now there's an idea, while sounding, well, familiar, that has some real
merit...I just can't having a sense of deja vu, though...

Oh, btw: I notice you don't use your real name when posting, R who? can I
call you "The Man"?

Can you? I guess you can, as you have already indicated that you are
entirely capable of doing so. MAY you? No, you may not...it's "MISTER
The Man"...or "Baba Ganoush"...I like eggplant, so I guess I can live
with that...and if you desire, you may shorten it to simply
"Baba"...actually, that gives me an idea...if Ras Tafari can be HIM, you
can just call me "HIM"...

TC,
Baba, HIM, R (which, in the instant context, I guess would be
"reigning"...)

A lesson with Lefty
 

wrote in message
...

Can you? I guess you can, as you have already indicated that you are
entirely capable of doing so. MAY you? No, you may not...it's "MISTER
The Man"...or "Baba Ganoush"...I like eggplant, so I guess I can live
with that...and if you desire, you may shorten it to simply
"Baba"...actually, that gives me an idea...if Ras Tafari can be HIM, you
can just call me "HIM"...

TC,
Baba, HIM, R (which, in the instant context, I guess would be
"reigning"...)


English 1A ;-)
-tom

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...


Probably not you as he was a Caucasian guy, who Lefty said looked like he
was chopping wood, when I went by. After a couple of minutes the guy was
casting farily well.

I was there on Saturday while Lefty was giving his 11:30am seminar.
-tom

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:07:47 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"

wrote:

The International Sportsmen Expo this past weekend was pretty darn good
for
me. I finally got to meet Lefty Kreh in person and watch his
demonstration.
He put to rest a lot of questions I've had and some of the questions that
were asked in roff. Lefty is quite a character and for his age of 81, his
senses and skills are still very keen.

I'm going to the Atlanta show this weekend and he'll be there. I finally
got to
meet him last year and got him to autograph one of his books that I 'just
happened' to have with me. g I still don't have the nerve to volunteer
to be a
casting 'lesson', though - good for you that you did.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

Charlie,
you can approach Lefty at the TFO booth if you don't want to confront him in
front of a crowd. It's good sometimes to get constructive criticism and find
out where you stand with your casting.
Last year I met Steve Rajeff.
About me, if I can benefit from it, I'm going to do it, regardless what
others may think.
-tom

A lesson with Lefty
 

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 06:37:34 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:

Charlie,
you can approach Lefty at the TFO booth if you don't want to confront him in
front of a crowd. It's good sometimes to get constructive criticism and find
out where you stand with your casting.

I talked to him last year at the TFO booth and he had me try out an 8wt. He
didn't have anything really bad to say, but I'm not sure how much attention he
was paying. g He also spent some time in one of the local fly shop's booth
signing autographs. He was on the schedule to give a photography talk but for
some reason it didn't happen the day I was there.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 06:37:34 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"

wrote:

Charlie,
you can approach Lefty at the TFO booth if you don't want to confront him
in
front of a crowd. It's good sometimes to get constructive criticism and
find
out where you stand with your casting.

I talked to him last year at the TFO booth and he had me try out an 8wt.
He
didn't have anything really bad to say, but I'm not sure how much
attention he
was paying. g He also spent some time in one of the local fly shop's
booth
signing autographs. He was on the schedule to give a photography talk but
for
some reason it didn't happen the day I was there.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

The thing I like about Left Kreh is that he's a great instructor and
communicator with both novice and experienced casters. There's always
something he can point out even if it's the slightest. I went home and
tried out some of the things from his lecture, it really works.

Oh, to get memory coils out of the line, his demo was standing on the line
and pulling up with both hands stretching the line ever so slightly as you
work through the reel.

The other is the roll cast. Most casters aren't bringing the line in far
enough before they make the cast. His rule of thumb, if you can't touch the
end of the line (minus the leader and tippet) with your rod tip, you're not
in far enough. Sure enough I tried it and I easily put out a 50' rollcast.
No other experienced caster told me this, but now that I see it, it's as
plain as day.

Most of the other principals I already knew, so I won't even go there, but
it's good to get a reminder.
-tom

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Tom Nakashima" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
The other is the roll cast. Most casters aren't bringing the line in far
enough before they make the cast. His rule of thumb, if you can't touch
the end of the line (minus the leader and tippet) with your rod tip,
you're not in far enough. Sure enough I tried it and I easily put out a
50' rollcast. No other experienced caster told me this, but now that I see
it, it's as plain as day.


Can you enlarge on that? Did not quite understand what you wrote. How can
you hold a fifty foot D loop?

TL
MC

A lesson with Lefty
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:

Sure Mike,
Let out 50' of line and make a false cast to get the line out.
As you bring the line in to form the "D" to make the rollcast, the line is
moving and very slowly to give you the surface tension you need on the line
as you raise and bring your arm up in the 1:00 position. When the line gets
to be around 9' in the water, make the cast. Think of the cast as if you
have a 2 1/2' stick with a tin soup can inserted on the stick. When you
make the cast, you're going to cast the can off the stick when you make the
stop.
Lefty says you can't make a roll cast with 20' of line in the water, it just
won't go. It's very simple when you analyze it. the 9' of line in the water
is all you need for surface tension and the line will go.
Let me know if you need more explanation.

I'm not Mike, but I still don't get it. :-)

With 50' of line out and 9' on the water, assuming a 9' (or
thereabouts) rod, that leaves 32' of line. Where is that 32'?


Chuck Vance

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
...
Tom Nakashima wrote:

Sure Mike,
Let out 50' of line and make a false cast to get the line out.
As you bring the line in to form the "D" to make the rollcast, the line
is moving and very slowly to give you the surface tension you need on the
line as you raise and bring your arm up in the 1:00 position. When the
line gets to be around 9' in the water, make the cast. Think of the cast
as if you have a 2 1/2' stick with a tin soup can inserted on the stick.
When you make the cast, you're going to cast the can off the stick when
you make the stop.
Lefty says you can't make a roll cast with 20' of line in the water, it
just won't go. It's very simple when you analyze it. the 9' of line in
the water is all you need for surface tension and the line will go.
Let me know if you need more explanation.

I'm not Mike, but I still don't get it. :-)

With 50' of line out and 9' on the water, assuming a 9' (or
thereabouts) rod, that leaves 32' of line. Where is that 32'?


Chuck Vance

The line is behind you, you're still forming the "D" and the line will go as
long as you have tension on the line. The rest of the line dangling behind
you will shoot out straight.
Try it Chuck.
-tom

A lesson with Lefty
 

On 1/19/06 12:37 PM, in article , "Conan The
Librarian" wrote:

Tom Nakashima wrote:

Sure Mike,
Let out 50' of line and make a false cast to get the line out.
As you bring the line in to form the "D" to make the rollcast, the line is
moving and very slowly to give you the surface tension you need on the line
as you raise and bring your arm up in the 1:00 position. When the line gets
to be around 9' in the water, make the cast. Think of the cast as if you
have a 2 1/2' stick with a tin soup can inserted on the stick. When you
make the cast, you're going to cast the can off the stick when you make the
stop.
Lefty says you can't make a roll cast with 20' of line in the water, it just
won't go. It's very simple when you analyze it. the 9' of line in the water
is all you need for surface tension and the line will go.
Let me know if you need more explanation.

I'm not Mike, but I still don't get it. :-)

With 50' of line out and 9' on the water, assuming a 9' (or
thereabouts) rod, that leaves 32' of line. Where is that 32'?

I wasn't even considering 9' of the line in the guides, so was thinking
about 41' of line not in the water, which, I guess, would be in a VERY
droopy D loop.

I like the tin can analogy though. That's exactly the motion!

Bill

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Tom Nakashima" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nakashima" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
The other is the roll cast. Most casters aren't bringing the line in
far enough before they make the cast. His rule of thumb, if you can't
touch the end of the line (minus the leader and tippet) with your rod
tip, you're not in far enough. Sure enough I tried it and I easily put
out a 50' rollcast. No other experienced caster told me this, but now
that I see it, it's as plain as day.


Can you enlarge on that? Did not quite understand what you wrote. How can
you hold a fifty foot D loop?

TL
MC


Sure Mike,
Let out 50' of line and make a false cast to get the line out.
As you bring the line in to form the "D" to make the rollcast, the line is
moving and very slowly to give you the surface tension you need on the
line as you raise and bring your arm up in the 1:00 position. When the
line gets to be around 9' in the water, make the cast. Think of the cast
as if you have a 2 1/2' stick with a tin soup can inserted on the stick.
When you make the cast, you're going to cast the can off the stick when
you make the stop.
Lefty says you can't make a roll cast with 20' of line in the water, it
just won't go. It's very simple when you analyze it. the 9' of line in
the water is all you need for surface tension and the line will go.
Let me know if you need more explanation.
-tom


Lefty says quite a lot it seems. here is a fifty two foot roll cast;
http://www.bartdezwaan.nl/rollcast/rollcasting.htm

One may also cast ninety feet using the same technique

TL
MC

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
...
Tom Nakashima wrote:

Sure Mike,
Let out 50' of line and make a false cast to get the line out.
As you bring the line in to form the "D" to make the rollcast, the line
is moving and very slowly to give you the surface tension you need on
the line as you raise and bring your arm up in the 1:00 position. When
the line gets to be around 9' in the water, make the cast. Think of the
cast as if you have a 2 1/2' stick with a tin soup can inserted on the
stick. When you make the cast, you're going to cast the can off the
stick when you make the stop.
Lefty says you can't make a roll cast with 20' of line in the water, it
just won't go. It's very simple when you analyze it. the 9' of line in
the water is all you need for surface tension and the line will go.
Let me know if you need more explanation.

I'm not Mike, but I still don't get it. :-)

With 50' of line out and 9' on the water, assuming a 9' (or
thereabouts) rod, that leaves 32' of line. Where is that 32'?


Chuck Vance

The line is behind you, you're still forming the "D" and the line will go
as long as you have tension on the line. The rest of the line dangling
behind you will shoot out straight.
Try it Chuck.
-tom

Actually that was the same question I presented to Lefty as he demonstrated.
Then he took the rod and let out 70' of line, with approximately 9' in the
water, formed the "D" with main part of the line (from rod tip to the ground
to form the "D" im guessing 16', so that's 16'+9' = 25' under tension) and
the rest of the line on the ground somewhere (anywhere as long as it's not
knoted). Lefty makes the cast and hits the end of the pool which is 70'. I
was pretty amazed.

So I get home, grab my rod, head out to the Almaden Lake which is across the
street from me. I can easily put out a 40' rollcast everytime and 50' with a
bit more power.
-tom

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nakashima" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nakashima" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
The other is the roll cast. Most casters aren't bringing the line in
far enough before they make the cast. His rule of thumb, if you can't
touch the end of the line (minus the leader and tippet) with your rod
tip, you're not in far enough. Sure enough I tried it and I easily put
out a 50' rollcast. No other experienced caster told me this, but now
that I see it, it's as plain as day.


Can you enlarge on that? Did not quite understand what you wrote. How
can you hold a fifty foot D loop?

TL
MC


Sure Mike,
Let out 50' of line and make a false cast to get the line out.
As you bring the line in to form the "D" to make the rollcast, the line
is moving and very slowly to give you the surface tension you need on the
line as you raise and bring your arm up in the 1:00 position. When the
line gets to be around 9' in the water, make the cast. Think of the cast
as if you have a 2 1/2' stick with a tin soup can inserted on the stick.
When you make the cast, you're going to cast the can off the stick when
you make the stop.
Lefty says you can't make a roll cast with 20' of line in the water, it
just won't go. It's very simple when you analyze it. the 9' of line in
the water is all you need for surface tension and the line will go.
Let me know if you need more explanation.
-tom


Lefty says quite a lot it seems. here is a fifty two foot roll cast;
http://www.bartdezwaan.nl/rollcast/rollcasting.htm

One may also cast ninety feet using the same technique

TL
MC

Mike,

The rollcast is the most needed cast when fishing, but also the most
misunderstood and pathetic when not done right. I practice the rollcast as
well as my false casting everday just to keep sharp. I'll have to admit I
sucked at rollcasting when I first started. I read Lefty's book about the
tin can method. Then I stuck a campbell's soup can on my fly-rod using only
the butt section of the rod, cut out the two ends of the can so all I have
is a cylinder. I heaved that cylinder a mile. Went back to my fly-rod with
line and made a perfect rollcast.
-tom

A lesson with Lefty
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

The line is behind you, you're still forming the "D" and the line will go
as long as you have tension on the line. The rest of the line dangling
behind you will shoot out straight.
Try it Chuck.

Actually that was the same question I presented to Lefty as he demonstrated.
Then he took the rod and let out 70' of line, with approximately 9' in the
water, formed the "D" with main part of the line (from rod tip to the ground
to form the "D" im guessing 16', so that's 16'+9' = 25' under tension) and
the rest of the line on the ground somewhere (anywhere as long as it's not
knoted). Lefty makes the cast and hits the end of the pool which is 70'. I
was pretty amazed.

So I get home, grab my rod, head out to the Almaden Lake which is across the
street from me. I can easily put out a 40' rollcast everytime and 50' with a
bit more power.

Thanks for the explanations, but I'm afraid I'm just slow, as I
still can't picture it. :-) At one point you say the line needs to be
under tension, but you also say that the rest of the line can be just on
the ground. So is the latter really true? (I.e., if I execute the cast
correctly with only 9' out in front of me, the cast will shoot the rest
of the excess out?)

I'll definitely give it a try. I'm a horrible rollcaster; every so
often I get one that looks good, but as far as I can tell, it's a
totally random event. :-}


Chuck Vance (now if I could just get some time on the water)

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Tom Nakashima" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
Mike,

The rollcast is the most needed cast when fishing, but also the most
misunderstood and pathetic when not done right. I practice the rollcast
as well as my false casting everday just to keep sharp. I'll have to
admit I sucked at rollcasting when I first started. I read Lefty's book
about the tin can method. Then I stuck a campbell's soup can on my
fly-rod using only the butt section of the rod, cut out the two ends of
the can so all I have is a cylinder. I heaved that cylinder a mile. Went
back to my fly-rod with line and made a perfect rollcast.
-tom


Often, yes, although that is largely dependent on what type of fishing you
indulge in. There is no point in roll casting a thirty foot head in the
salt, even if one can do it!

The method with the tin can visualisation works well, ( Does not have to be
Campbell´s, though the soup is good), especially with beginners, as does
the "flick the drops off the paintbrush" visualisation. It is not generally
advisable to actually use tin cans on your rod though! :)

Whatever helps is good.

Some of these things are extremely difficult to describe in words.

Whatever, it is nice to meet an "Icon", and Mr. Kreh is definitely that.
Nice to hear that you enjoyed it so much.

TL
MC

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Conan The Librarian" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
Thanks for the explanations, but I'm afraid I'm just slow, as I still
can't picture it. :-) At one point you say the line needs to be under
tension, but you also say that the rest of the line can be just on the
ground. So is the latter really true? (I.e., if I execute the cast
correctly with only 9' out in front of me, the cast will shoot the rest of
the excess out?)

I'll definitely give it a try. I'm a horrible rollcaster; every so
often I get one that looks good, but as far as I can tell, it's a totally
random event. :-}


Chuck Vance (now if I could just get some time on the water)

It will work on grass, or indeed even on a hard floor, but it is much more
difficult to do. The speed and and "snap" required, is considerable, and you
wont reach the same distance as you will reach on water.

One may shoot line into a well executed roll cast, but this requires
absolutely perfect timing, and well matched gear.

Normally, you will only actually cast the line that you have out there
anyway. Basically changing direction to renew a drift, etc.

The roll cast may also be used to bring a sinking line to the surface,
before casting. This also requires perfect timing, or else you may well
break your rod!

There are some "dynamic" roll casts, including the Spey casts, various
switch casts, and underhand casts which will allow you to do more. None of
these are actually really difficult, but most people don´t know how to
execute them correctly.

Best is to see it done, and have what you then do critiqued by a good
caster.

TL
MC

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...


Probably not you as he was a Caucasian guy, who Lefty said looked like he
was chopping wood, when I went by. After a couple of minutes the guy was
casting farily well.

I was there on Saturday while Lefty was giving his 11:30am seminar.
-tom


Was there Sunday.

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Tom Nakashima" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
Mike,
I saw the video, but today's style has changed a bit on the rollcast,
where the line never makes contact with the water until the fly hits. I
can perform both as shown in the video, but the idea of bringing the line
in to 9' is to get the distance and have the line not touch the water
until the fly lands. Reason as explained to me, is that you don't spook
the fish as the line rolls on top of the water.
Whatever works for you though,
-tom


With a properly executed roll cast, the line unfurls in the air, not on the
water. The fly hits the water first, just as in a normal overhead cast.

Still don´t know what you mean by "bringing the line in to 9´" . No big
deal.

TL
MC

A lesson with Lefty
 

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nakashima" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
Mike,
I saw the video, but today's style has changed a bit on the rollcast,
where the line never makes contact with the water until the fly hits. I
can perform both as shown in the video, but the idea of bringing the line
in to 9' is to get the distance and have the line not touch the water
until the fly lands. Reason as explained to me, is that you don't spook
the fish as the line rolls on top of the water.
Whatever works for you though,
-tom


With a properly executed roll cast, the line unfurls in the air, not on
the water. The fly hits the water first, just as in a normal overhead
cast.

Sorry Mike, not any more, but you can still do it that way. The newer
method in the roll cast as changed as described above.


Still don´t know what you mean by "bringing the line in to 9´" . No big
deal.


I'll take a picture of bringing in the line to 9' and post it.
-tom

A lesson with Lefty/roll casting the D loop
 

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...
Still don´t know what you mean by "bringing the line in to 9´" . No big
deal.

It could be a big deal if you're rollcasting.
Clearing up the 9' of line in the water.
Here is the diagram of the "D" loop and bringing the line in to 9' as Lefty
described.
If your line is out more than 9' then it's harder to execute the rollcast.
If the line is out to 20' (the line touching the water) you won't be able to
shoot the line.

On the line at the rod tip it could be as long as you want, as long as you
have approximately 9' touching the water. In the diagram it shows a very
short D in the rear, but it can long as you wish. The form of the D can also
be an exaggerated looking "D" depending on how much line you have back
there, but the most important thing is that the line will shoot out.
http://home.comcast.net/~tomnak/The_D_Loop.jpg

-tom

A lesson with Lefty/roll casting the D loop
 

"Tom Nakashima" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
The form of the D can also
be an exaggerated looking "D" depending on how much line you have back
there, but the most important thing is that the line will shoot out.
http://home.comcast.net/~tomnak/The_D_Loop.jpg

-tom




Still don´t know what you are getting at. the "no big deal", was in relation
to my not understanding.

The relative resistance of the line is a function of the speed with which
you move it, and thus load the rod. The less resistance, ( as on grass, or a
hard floor), the faster you have to move the rod, in order to load it. The
rod loading is important, but the movement once it is loaded is even more
important. Where you start and end this movement is also paramount.

This is not dependent on the amount of line you have out. Whether nine feet
or ninety feet. The roll cast is one of the few casts which only loads the
rod with the line that is actually moved by the rod, independent of how much
line may be outside the tip ring, and the rest of the line is then dragged
along.

TL
MC

A lesson with Lefty/roll casting the D loop
 

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...
Still don´t know what you are getting at. the "no big deal", was in
relation to my not understanding.

Ok, in relation to you not understanding, glad that's clear.

The relative resistance of the line is a function of the speed with which
you move it, and thus load the rod. The less resistance, ( as on grass, or
a hard floor), the faster you have to move the rod, in order to load it.
The rod loading is important, but the movement once it is loaded is even
more important. Where you start and end this movement is also paramount.

This is already a given function. Whether grass, hardwood floor, Kmart
waxed floor or H2O, there will be surface tension on the line. And the more
line you have out touching any of the above, will cause resistance. Simple:
more mass = more resistance.


This is not dependent on the amount of line you have out. Whether nine
feet or ninety feet.

Are you sure about that? There is resistance on the line from the water,
the more line you have touching the water, the more resistance you have.
(more mass = more resistance) Of course you do want some resistance on the
line to be able to shoot the line. Here's an experiment for you Mike. Put
out 40 ' of line on the water, form the D loop and make the rollcast. Then
make another rollcast, same 40', but only 9' of the 40' touching the water.

The roll cast is one of the few casts which only loads the
rod with the line that is actually moved by the rod, independent of how
much line may be outside the tip ring, and the rest of the line is then
dragged along.


I'm sure glad you said; "dragged along" now it looks like you finally
understand.
Again, more mass = more resistance.
-tom

A lesson with Lefty/roll casting the D loop
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

Then make another rollcast, same 40', but only 9' of the 40' touching the
water.

I can't speak for others, although I think this may possibly be where the
confusion comes in... In the suggestion above, how do you make a 31' D loop.

Maybe your arms are longer than mine? ;)

JT

A lesson with Lefty/roll casting the D loop
 

"Tom Nakashima" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
Are you sure about that? There is resistance on the line from the water,
the more line you have touching the water, the more resistance you have.
(more mass = more resistance) Of course you do want some resistance on
the line to be able to shoot the line. Here's an experiment for you Mike.
Put out 40 ' of line on the water, form the D loop and make the rollcast.
Then make another rollcast, same 40', but only 9' of the 40' touching the
water.


I don´t know what this "9´" means.

On a good day, with a special line, and a certain rod, I can roll cast 120
feet. I just don´t see where "nine feet" comes into it. It is intriuging me.
If I have (say) 12 feet of line in my ( slowly!) moving D loop, and ( in the
case of a 50 foot cast), a further 38 feet of line on the water, where does
"nine feet" of anything come into it?

Where is this níne feet?

Are you talking about a dynamic roll, where the line is completely
aerialised on the backcast, allowed to drop, and only an "anchor" is allowed
to touch the water midway in the backcast, ( similar to a Spey, but
underhand), before the forward cast is executed?

Sorry if I seem obtuse.

TL
MC

A lesson with Lefty/roll casting the D loop
 

"Jeff Taylor" wrote in message


how do you make a 31' D loop?
Maybe your arms are longer than mine? ;)


precisely......I find it is a piece of cakeg.
Cripes, with my arms, I can probably make a D loop out of the whole freaking
line......

loopily yours,
Tom

A lesson with Lefty/roll casting the D loop
 

Mike Connor wrote:
I don´t know what this "9´" means.


The 9 feet is effectively his anchor, the line in the water
in front of him. Then he has a modest D-loop behind
him. The rest of the "free" line (line off the reel) is
between his hand and the reel.

SIngle-handed spey casts work pretty well also.

A lesson with Lefty/roll casting the D loop
 

schrieb im Newsbeitrag
ups.com...

Mike Connor wrote:
I don´t know what this "9´" means.


The 9 feet is effectively his anchor, the line in the water
in front of him. Then he has a modest D-loop behind
him. The rest of the "free" line (line off the reel) is
between his hand and the reel.

SIngle-handed spey casts work pretty well also.


Indeed, so he shoots over thirty feet of running line in a static roll cast
from a nine foot anchor? I wish........

TL
MC

A lesson with Lefty/roll casting the D loop
 

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:22:34 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:



On the line at the rod tip it could be as long as you want, as long as you
have approximately 9' touching the water. In the diagram it shows a very
short D in the rear, but it can long as you wish. The form of the D can also
be an exaggerated looking "D" depending on how much line you have back
there, but the most important thing is that the line will shoot out.
http://home.comcast.net/~tomnak/The_D_Loop.jpg



Somehow I just see myself setting that up, putting a foot in the wrong
place, casting, and winding up with the line zooming up the inside of
one calf or the other, headed for my waistline.

Luckily, I don't happen to want to cast more than 30 feet at any given
time, so I'll escape the line burns on the thighs.

Thanks for the illustration, though. I was as mystified as anyone
else as to what you were describing. Looks as if it could be useful
for better casters than I am.