Czech Nymphing
 

Anyone here tried it? A guide on the Kern river introduced it to me and it
seemed to work pretty well...while he watched. When I tried it on my own
at the Owens all I did was get hung up and lose gear. It's kind of the
antithesis of the dead drift - you literally drag a heavily weighted, 3-fly
rig along the bottom.

Anyone out there done this and have any tips they'd like to share?
--

-dnc-

Czech Nymphing
 

czech nymphing? what's this? another disgusting racial slur.

you'll hear from mr. choc about *this* one, by god!

yfitons
wayno

Czech Nymphing
 

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
...

czech nymphing? what's this? another disgusting racial slur.

you'll hear from mr. choc about *this* one, by god!

Sounds like a chick slur to me. :(

Wolfgang

Czech Nymphing
 

The Kern in California? Fun water. Used to whitewater raft it all the
time. Got my partner hooked on fly fishing on that river. Now he's
converted his whitewater raft to a drift boat.
Czech nymphing can be VERY productive. Unfortunately, its difficult to
get it down without a ton of snarls. Its also a bit boring after a
while. If you just want to haul out fish all day, its very cool. I've
tried it a couple of times.
Frank Reid

Czech Nymphing
 

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:00:32 -0600, "Fiddleaway"
wrote:

Anyone here tried it? A guide on the Kern river introduced it to me and it
seemed to work pretty well...while he watched. When I tried it on my own
at the Owens all I did was get hung up and lose gear. It's kind of the
antithesis of the dead drift - you literally drag a heavily weighted, 3-fly
rig along the bottom.

Anyone out there done this and have any tips they'd like to share?
--

Czech nymphing was originally done with more than one nymph, usually a
max of three, with the heaviest one in the middle. If you can get
past the snarls (I can't), then that is the way to go. I usually use
one nymph, preferably unweighted. You must get the nymph down in the
water column, so weight is added about a foot to eighteen inches above
the fly. I usually tie the weight in at the tippet knot to hold it in
place.

How much weight? That depends on the depth of the water and it's
speed. A good rule of thumb: if your line (leader, strike indicator,
leader/line knot) is moving faster than the bubbles on the surface,
add more weight. If you continuously snag bottom, remove weight.
There is a speed difference between the surface current (faster) and
the current a few inches off the bottom (slower). In order to get a
good drag free drift, you need to match (or come close to) the slower
current speed. BTW, you do not drag the fly across the bottom.

This type of nymphing requires only the leader and a couple of feet of
line. You aren't making 20 - 40 ft casts. Too much line on the water
causes drag, so you remove as much line as possible. I usually use a
9 ft leader and 15 inches of tippet. Cast upstream 15 or so feet and
immediately raise your rod to get the line off the surface. Your rod
tip should be pointed at your strike indicator or leader/line knot, or
the point at which your leader enters the water. If you use a strike
indicator, place it approximately 1 1/2 times the depth of the water
above your fly. If you see the leader or indicator hesitate or stop,
set the hook by raising your rod.

Those are the basics. You need to practice to get the proper
technique. Unlike dry fly fishing, nymphing is a three dimensional
technique. Anyone can float a dry and wait for the fish to rise and
take it (not that there's anything wrong with that!), but nymphing
reqires the 3rd dimension of depth. It is a very efficient way to
catch trout, especially when there is no hatch. Fish are constantly
eating; they are an eating machine, and if they aren't taking emergers
or flies on the surface, they are feeding on nymphs (probably as much
as 90% of the time), or other fish.

Oh, yeah, one more little helpful bit of info: because you are using
split shot as weight, the rig can be difficult to cast. So, don't
cast it! When the fly gets downstream of you, simply lift the rig up
out of the water column and throw it upstream for the next drift. No
false casting. If you are using multiple flies, this is the point
where you will get your snarls.

Do a google czech nymphing. There should be plenty of instructions
out there better than mine.

Dave

Czech Nymphing
 

That sounds like plain old ordinary nymphing to me.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Czech Nymphing
 

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 14:40:07 GMT, rw
wrote:

That sounds like plain old ordinary nymphing to me.

Yep, except the true Czech nympher uses three flies and no weight. He
gets the three flies down by using a heavily weighted fly in the
middle, while the other two are unweighted. I find that method
cumbersome, at best, and tried to advise the man to use but one nymph.
"Ordinary" nymphing includes casting a good distance and mending your
line, unlike the short (length of your leader) Czech nymphing.

Czech Nymphing
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 14:40:07 GMT, rw wrote:

That sounds like plain old ordinary nymphing to me.

Yep, except the true Czech nympher uses three flies and no weight. He
gets the three flies down by using a heavily weighted fly in the
middle, while the other two are unweighted. I find that method
cumbersome, at best, and tried to advise the man to use but one nymph.
"Ordinary" nymphing includes casting a good distance and mending your
line, unlike the short (length of your leader) Czech nymphing.

It most resembles short-line, high-stick nymphing, EXCEPT that you don't
really raise the rod that high (because you don't have that much line
out). It is really only well suited to particular types of water:
smaller, riffly, fairly fast high-gradient streams. For that kind of
water, though, it's a killer technique. You can work through and cover
a lot of water quite quickly. I use it, where appropriate, but with
only two nymphs; three I have trouble keeping untangled, even with the
very short line.

http://www.fishandfly.co.uk/tledit0500a.html

Czech Nymphing
 

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:05:23 -0800, JR wrote:

It most resembles short-line, high-stick nymphing, EXCEPT that you don't
really raise the rod that high (because you don't have that much line
out). It is really only well suited to particular types of water:
smaller, riffly, fairly fast high-gradient streams. For that kind of
water, though, it's a killer technique. You can work through and cover
a lot of water quite quickly. I use it, where appropriate, but with
only two nymphs; three I have trouble keeping untangled, even with the
very short line.

Exactly. Raising the rod can also help with the depth of the nymphs.
I've fished water using a strike indicator for about 5 feet of water,
but when I move on to shallower water, I simply lift the strike
indicator out of the water and set my depth that way. WFM.

Czech Nymphing
 

"JR" wrote

It most resembles short-line, high-stick nymphing, EXCEPT that you don't
really raise the rod that high (because you don't have that much line
out). It is really only well suited to particular types of water:
smaller, riffly, fairly fast high-gradient streams. For that kind of
water, though, it's a killer technique.
hmm... sounds like i should give it a try this spring in the smokies.
would a longer rod (8-9') be preferred to our typical 7-7.5 dry fly rigs?

yfitons
wayno

Czech Nymphing
 

there was quite a discussion on this on a regional board. It seems to be the
latest "cool" thing. It uses a heavily weighted fly a long rod, a light line
( #2 lines on a #6 10' rod are typical) and a length of light non-tapered
leader. Casts are short.

here's a "primer": http://www.fishandfly.co.uk/tledit0500a.html

Jiri Klima the supposed "originator" of the technique offers courses on it
in the Czech Repuplic fr $500 a pop :)
Often not mentioned is that the "technique" involves wading as close as
possible to fish lies and wading the entire stream a la the San Juan
shuffle. This part of Czech Nymphing is being criticized by some in Europe
as it is potentially harmful to stream environments.


"Fiddleaway" wrote in message
news:01c64faf$80e992a0$c2ff1345@micron...
Anyone here tried it? A guide on the Kern river introduced it to me and
it
seemed to work pretty well...while he watched. When I tried it on my own
at the Owens all I did was get hung up and lose gear. It's kind of the
antithesis of the dead drift - you literally drag a heavily weighted,
3-fly
rig along the bottom.

Anyone out there done this and have any tips they'd like to share?
--

-dnc-

Czech Nymphing
 

Sounds a lot like the way I nymph, with a heavily weighted
bonefish fly and a smaller unweighted one.

When it's windy I put the heavy fly at the end.
When it's not blowing boats out of the water, I put
the itty bitty fly out at the end.

An extra-big barbell Crazy Charlie gets the little one
down. At the end of the day, the little nymph will out
catch the big one in terms of numbers. But the 2-3 biggest
fish of the day will (almost) always be taken
by the bonefish fly.

I started doing that on the North Platte in Wyoming.
But it works everywhere. Especially on large tail water
rivers: Big Horn, Missouri, North Platte, etc.

Czech Nymphing
 

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:06:51 GMT, "Shining Path Gorilla"
wrote:

Often not mentioned is that the "technique" involves wading as close as
possible to fish lies and wading the entire stream a la the San Juan
shuffle. This part of Czech Nymphing is being criticized by some in Europe
as it is potentially harmful to stream environments.

Well, since you only cast 10 - 15 feet, you *have* to get close to the
fish. However, I have never seen a nympher using this method and use
the San Juan Shuffle, *except* on the San Juan and the Big Horn. I
saw nymphers on a sand bar on the Big Horn take turns doing the
shuffle, with their partner....errrr...... friend down-stream from the
shuffle point. I wade the entire stream, but I don't do the shuffle.
Besides, the shuffle will do no good if you are fishing up-stream from
your feet.

Dave

Czech Nymphing
 

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
...

"JR" wrote

It most resembles short-line, high-stick nymphing, EXCEPT that you don't
really raise the rod that high (because you don't have that much line
out). It is really only well suited to particular types of water:
smaller, riffly, fairly fast high-gradient streams. For that kind of
water, though, it's a killer technique.
hmm... sounds like i should give it a try this spring in the smokies.
would a longer rod (8-9') be preferred to our typical 7-7.5 dry fly rigs?

yfitons
wayno
A longer rod will be much better for high sticking but the over hanging
bushes and creek side rododems should be consider.ed.
The real problems is getting in and out of the stream , JR do you aim
rod ahead between brush or reverse rod and lead with butt?
JR and Wayno please send me you mailing adress
By the way Wayno you have to admire Redddick admitting Dulke was defeatedd
better athelitcs.
Will njow try spell check
Just plain joe

Czech Nymphing
 

Joe McIntosh wrote:
The real problem is getting in and out of the stream , JR do you aim
rod ahead between brush or reverse rod and lead with butt?

ARGHHH! Joe, do you have ESP or something?????

Used to be, sometimes I'd do one, sometimes the other, with mixed success.

BUT.... the other day, I parked at what I thought would be a new and
improved parking spot on a favorite river, then had to walk a new way to
get to the water. A way that turned out to have no good path and a lot
of undergrowth. I turned the rod around and led with the butt..... and
had to pull the rod through a couple of particularly tangly spots.....
and got to the river with the bottom three sections of a 4-piece rod.

Tried to retrace the route..... (hopeless).

Fortunately, I had a cheapo back-up rod in my truck so I did manage to fish.

But my rule *from now on* in that kind of country is going to be to
carry my rod broken down in its rod sack and assemble and rig it only
once I get to the water.

BTW, although Sage will repair a broken RPL tip for free, it charges $71
to replace lost tips. (In my case, a stupidity tax I richly deserve to
have to pay....)

Czech Nymphing
 

I turned the rod around and led with the butt..... and
had to pull the rod through a couple of particularly tangly spots.....
and got to the river with the bottom three sections of a 4-piece rod.

I had the same experience with a new rod the FIRST time I took it
fishing, John. Over on White Deer Creek.

BTW, although Sage will repair a broken RPL tip for free, it charges $71
to replace lost tips.

Mine was a Cabela's Three Forks that I bought on sale ($39) after
reading a flurry of favorable postings about it in ROFF. When I phoned
Cabelas to buy a replacement tip, the saleslady said "It shouldn't
have come apart like that; we'll send you a new rod."

I said "No, it's only a friction fit; it's my fault. I shouldn't have
carried it that way."

She wouldn't listen. "Put it in the container it came in. On Monday,
a UPS man will come by and pick it up, and we'll send you a new rod."

Hard to hate a company like that! ((:-))

vince

Czech Nymphing
 

Frank Reid wrote
The Kern in California? Fun water. Used to whitewater raft it all the
time. Got my partner hooked on fly fishing on that river.

That's where Grandpa first taught me to fish.

If you just want to haul out fish all day, its very cool.

Hauling fish out all day has only happened to me once in my life, on the
Tsiu in Alaska fishing for Silvers. It was very cool. Course I don't need
numbers to have a good day ... just one more than my fishin' buddy ;-)
--

-dnc-

Czech Nymphing
 

Shining Path Gorilla wrote

...there was quite a discussion on this on a regional board..

...here's a "primer": http://www.fishandfly.co.uk/tledit0500a.html

Good ref. Is the regional board in the public domain? In the cited
article, he says,

"Take your first length of mono and attach another length to it using a
Surgeon's knot. The dropper must be on the parent leg and pointing
downwards"

I'm having trouble visualizing what he means ... not sure about the "parent
leg" terminology

Anyone have a ref to a diagram of the whole rig?

Jiri Klima the supposed "originator" of the technique offers courses on
it
in the Czech Repuplic fr $500 a pop :)

Now that's what I call Czech nymphing! :)
--

-dnc-

Czech Nymphing
 

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:02:55 -0600, "Fiddleaway"
wrote:

"Take your first length of mono and attach another length to it using a
Surgeon's knot. The dropper must be on the parent leg and pointing
downwards"

A surgeon's knot is going to leave four ends: 1 is your leader or
"first length of mono", the 2nd is the long piece which will be your
tippet, and 3 the tag end of your leader, 4 tag end of your tippet.
If I use this method (and I have and don't like it), I tie the
dropper on the tag end of the leader (first length of mono) which is
"pointing downwards," and parallel to your long pice of tippet
material.

When I nymph, I use only one fly. While Czech nymphing includes three
flies, I find it cumbersome and especially subject to tangles. The
only *good* thing about it is you can "test" two flies. The few times
I have used this method, I have taken fish off of one of the droppers.
At that point I re-rig and use only the fly that the fish are
attracted to. Works well for me.

Dave

Czech Nymphing
 

Dave LaCourse wrote in article

Yep, except the true Czech nympher uses three flies and no weight. He
gets the three flies down by using a heavily weighted fly in the
middle, while the other two are unweighted. I find that method
cumbersome, at best, and tried to advise the man to use but one nymph.

Yeah - the 3 nymph method - especially any directions or techniques for
tying. The weighted center fly (as opposed to lead) looks like a good
alternative ... less hardware to snag ... but we're talking a hefty fly
here to substitute for 3 BB's (which is the approximate weight we needed
for the Kern's flow rate) ... I do remember that flies are tied off the
tag ends of the surgeon's knots used to connect the sections of the rig.
The whole rig's kind of time-consuming for me to tie ... it almost seems
like you'd want to make up a couple in advance for when you eventually lose
a whole rig on a bottom snag.

Instead of using the tag ends of a surgeon's knot to set the flies out from
the main leader, I wonder if there is a knot to tie in an auxilliary tag
that can be trimmed to the desired length ... would help if one of the tags
gets too short after changing or losing a fly.
--

-dnc-

Czech Nymphing
 

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:52:56 -0600, "Fiddleaway"
wrote:

The weighted center fly (as opposed to lead) looks like a good
alternative ... less hardware to snag ... but we're talking a hefty fly
here to substitute for 3 BB's (which is the approximate weight we needed
for the Kern's flow rate)

Let's start with the tag end fly (from the surgeons knot) and call
that fly #1

The second fly, which will be in the middle of the rig, and is the
hefty one used to get the rig down, is tied to the end of that tippet.

The third fly is ties from the bend of the hook of the 2nd fly. Take
a piece of tippet and tie it to the bend of the heavy (2nd) fly. At
the end of that tippet you tie fly #3.

l
l
l\
l \O
l
l
6
l
l
lF
Where l\ is your surgeon knot
O is your first fly
6 is your weighted fly
F is your third fly tied to the bend of 6

Dave

Czech Nymphing
 

Dave LaCourse wrote

A surgeon's knot is going to leave four ends: 1 is your leader or
"first length of mono", the 2nd is the long piece which will be your
tippet, and 3 the tag end of your leader, 4 tag end of your tippet.
If I use this method (and I have and don't like it), I tie the
dropper on the tag end of the leader (first length of mono) which is
"pointing downwards," and parallel to your long pice of tippet
material.

Not sure what you meant by "this method". You mean Czech nymphing in
general or do you mean tying a fly to a surgeon's knot tag so the fly
stands off the main leader?

-dnc-

Czech Nymphing
 

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:15:38 -0600, "Fiddleaway"
wrote:

Not sure what you meant by "this method".

Tying flies to tag ends of the surgeon's knot(s).

You could continue and tie 2 or 3 more surgeons knots and put droppers
on them, but with each one you increase the complexity of the rig and
the bigger chance of snarling. If I use this method I tie a fly to
the tag end of the leader (at Surgeons knot), a fly to the end of that
tippet (this would be the heavy fly to get the rig down), and then tie
a piece of tippet to the bend of the hefty fly and your third fly to
the end of that tippet.

Czech Nymphing
 

Dave LaCourse wrote


l
l
l\
l \O
l
l
6
l
l
lF
Where l\ is your surgeon knot
O is your first fly
6 is your weighted fly
F is your third fly tied to the bend of 6

Ahhh! The rig I used also had '6' on a tag end (ergo, 2 surgeon's knots)
with the BB's just above the '6' surgeon's knot. With the weight in the
fly, you apparently don't need it to stand off from the leader. Cool.
Reduces complexity.
--

-dnc-
Now I can tie it in 1 hour instead of 2 :)

Czech Nymphing
 

know yoour depth!

Czech Nymphing
 

In article ,
Dave LaCourse wrote:


l
l
l\
l \O
l
l
6
l
l
lF
Where l\ is your surgeon knot
O is your first fly
6 is your weighted fly
F is your third fly tied to the bend of 6

wont your first fly wrap around the main line?

--
Somewhere in Texas a village is missing their Idiot.

Czech Nymphing
 

In article ,
Dave LaCourse wrote:

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:15:38 -0600, "Fiddleaway"
wrote:

Not sure what you meant by "this method".

Tying flies to tag ends of the surgeon's knot(s).

You could continue and tie 2 or 3 more surgeons knots and put droppers
on them, but with each one you increase the complexity of the rig and
the bigger chance of snarling. If I use this method I tie a fly to
the tag end of the leader (at Surgeons knot), a fly to the end of that
tippet (this would be the heavy fly to get the rig down), and then tie
a piece of tippet to the bend of the hefty fly and your third fly to
the end of that tippet.




How does the snarling of czeck compare to just tying 24 inches of tippet
to the bend of the first fly, and 24 inches to the bend of the second
fly (I find the more line the less chance of snarling)

--
Somewhere in Texas a village is missing their Idiot.

Czech Nymphing
 

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:01:31 -0800, JDOE wrote:

wont your first fly wrap around the main line?

Nope.

Czech Nymphing
 

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:04:44 -0800, JDOE wrote:

How does the snarling of czeck compare to just tying 24 inches of tippet
to the bend of the first fly, and 24 inches to the bend of the second
fly (I find the more line the less chance of snarling)

Sure, you could do it that way. Or you could do it my way: only one
nymph. Fish are like women: Find out what they want and give it to
them. Of all the times I've used multiple flies on a rig, I usually
caught fish on only one of them. That being the case, why the other
two?

Czech Nymphing
 

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:47:25 -0500, (scott sztorc)
wrote:

know yoour depth!

You have a grasp for the obvious, scott.

Czech Nymphing
 

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...

Fish are like women: Find out what they want and give it to
them.

Oh god, were it only that simple....

--riverman

Czech Nymphing
 

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:57:41 +0800, "riverman"
wrote:

Oh god, were it only that simple....


But it *IS*, Myron. d;o)

Czech Nymphing
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:
"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:04:44 -0800, JDOE wrote:

Sure, you could do it that way. Or you could do it my way: only one
nymph. Fish are like women: Find out what they want and give it to
them.

What if you encounter a Czechoslovakian nymphomaniac?
-tom



Run!

They have been two separate republics for some years, so she would be a
rather old nymphomaniac.

Then again, to each his own.........:-)

Czech Nymphing
 

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:23:33 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:

What if you encounter a Czechoslovakian nymphomaniac?

Surrender!

Czech Nymphing
 

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...

Surrender!


A fly fisherman and his Czechoslovakian girlfriend went fishing one weekend
when
they were attacked by a bear before they could get a line in the water. The
fisherman ran to get help from the ranger while the bear mauled and ate his
Czeck girlfriend.

When the ranger and the fisherman returned to the site they found his
Czeck girlfriend to have been completely eaten and two bears roaming around.
The
ranger asked the fisherman "Which bear attacked and ate your Czeck
girlfriend?" The fisherman pointed to the male bear, as the other bear took
off running. The ranger took out his gun and shot the bear. Then he quickly
cut open the bear hoping to find the fisherman's girlfriend remains.
However, the male bear was empty. The ranger stepped backward and laughed.
"I should have known," he muttered to himself, "You can't trust a
fly-fisherman who says the Czeck is in the male!"



ok, pretty bad, but it's " Fish & Chip Wednesday"

-tom

Czech Nymphing
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:04:44 -0800, JDOE wrote:

Sure, you could do it that way. Or you could do it my way: only
one
nymph. Fish are like women: Find out what they want and give it
to
them.

What if you encounter a Czechoslovakian nymphomaniac?
-tom


Your leader would tangle

--
A Yorkshire Lad

Remove spam filter to reply

Czech Nymphing
 

Tom Nakashima wrote
What if you encounter a Czechoslovakian nymphomaniac?

Fill in the blanks...

Serbia ___ Yugo Russian___Poland___Slovak____Hungary
--

-dnc-

Czech Nymphing
 

JDOE wrote:
In article ,
Dave LaCourse wrote:


l
l
l\
l \O
l
l
6
l
l
lF
Where l\ is your surgeon knot
O is your first fly
6 is your weighted fly
F is your third fly tied to the bend of 6


wont your first fly wrap around the main line?



Yes. It will twist around the leader to some extent but usually not so
much so the fly gets snagged. I tie flies off a tippet tag like that
when I'm fishing soft hackles. The tag should be of the heavier line. I
use a heavy fly at the very end to "anchor" the rig and by lifting the
line off the water, you can make the upper fly(s) bouce along the
surface. Sometimes this is VERY effective, often it doesn't work, but if
it does it's very exciting fishing. You get hard slashing, splashy hits
as the fish throw themselves at your fly. You get alot of missed strikes
but you can sometimes get the fish to hit again with a dead drift
through the area.

When I fish nymphs, I tie the second fly off the bend of the hook. Bruce
and some others tie them off the eye.

Willi

Kern River California - was e: Czech Nymphing
 

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006, Fiddleaway wrote:

Frank Reid wrote
The Kern in California? Fun water. Used to whitewater raft it all the
time. Got my partner hooked on fly fishing on that river.

That's where Grandpa first taught me to fish.

There are some nice wild trout there apparently. Also a lot closer to
southern California than the eastern Sierras.

http://www.kernriverflyfishing.com/c...ro/emAlbum.cgi

Mu

Kern River California - was e: Czech Nymphing
 

"Mu Young Lee" wrote in message
. itd.umich.edu...
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006, Fiddleaway wrote:

Frank Reid wrote
The Kern in California? Fun water. Used to whitewater raft it all the
time. Got my partner hooked on fly fishing on that river.

That's where Grandpa first taught me to fish.

There are some nice wild trout there apparently. Also a lot closer to
southern California than the eastern Sierras.

http://www.kernriverflyfishing.com/c...ro/emAlbum.cgi

Mu

Mu, have you gone out with the group to the Kern?
I'm interested for this year.
-tom