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Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
Having been accused in another thread of bringing a
$5 item to a $20 raffle I must protest. In the first place it was a $10 raffle and this is what I brought: http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/...w_mou_solo.htm I carry one in my vest and I thought it was a practical, useful raffle gift. At any rate, I think raffles are a bad idea, someone is always gonna feel like they got screwed, so why bother ? If you think a first aid kit is a cheap, cheesy raffle gift how about golf balls ? No, not a box of 12 new Nikes, not even a sleeve of 3 new Titleists, two cut-up, beat-up, muddy, unmatched range balls found in somebody's backyard on a North Cackalacky golf course. Now *that's* cheap. Anyway, like the Subject says, good riddance to raffles. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:54:16 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: I carry one in my vest and I thought it was a practical, useful raffle gift. I think your gift was a great one, Ken. It wasn't ME that was complaining about it. I was more than willing to get your gift instead of the one I got. But it *was* me who took the heat because of your gift. I tried to trade with him, but he said no. Damned if I do and damned if I don't. |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
Ken Fortenberry typed:
Having been accused in another thread of bringing a $5 item to a $20 raffle I must protest. In the first place it was a $10 raffle and this is what I brought: http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/...w_mou_solo.htm What a cheap bastid. ;-) -- TL, Tim ------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
Tim J. wrote:
Ken Fortenberry typed: Having been accused in another thread of bringing a $5 item to a $20 raffle I must protest. In the first place it was a $10 raffle and this is what I brought: http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/...w_mou_solo.htm What a cheap bastid. ;-) Ouch, that really hurts coming from a non-millionaire by 65 slacker who blew off his "opportunities". ;-) -- Ken Fortenberry |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:52:58 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: Ouch, that really hurts coming from a non-millionaire by 65 slacker who blew off his "opportunities". ;-) I could say "Another cheap shot from a cheap bastid", but I won't. ;-) |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
Dave LaCourse wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote: Ouch, that really hurts coming from a non-millionaire by 65 slacker who blew off his "opportunities". ;-) I could say "Another cheap shot from a cheap bastid", but I won't. ;-) Good thing you won't, because it wasn't a cheap shot it was an accurate depiction of the way you dismissed many of us here for not marrying as well as yourself. Although, as for myself, I did damn near as well as you did on that score. Now, is my stay at Lakewood Camps on you or was that just another April Fool's joke ? -- Ken Fortenberry |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 23:46:27 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: Good thing you won't, because it wasn't a cheap shot it was an accurate depiction of the way you dismissed many of us here for not marrying as well as yourself. Although, as for myself, I did damn near as well as you did on that score. What the hell does my "marrying well" have to do with it. After my divorce I moved into a furnished room w/bath rented out by a kind old lady. I went from Chief's Quarters in Westminster to Seaman's Quarters in one big afternoon. When Joanne and I finally started to live together it was in a 3 room apartment in Acton. Again, not exactly Chief's Quarters. When we finally moved to our own home and married, we both brought equal wealth to the deal. My intentions in marrying her had nothing to do with her earning power, which, in those days, wasn't much more than mine. If you met her, you'd know within five minutes of meeting her why I fell in love with her and married her. Now, is my stay at Lakewood Camps on you or was that just another April Fool's joke ? You got three days on me, picked your time, and bring Kipper. I'll bring Henry. But, I don't want any **** from you about nymphing! |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message om... slacker who blew off his "opportunities". ;-) is that another brokeback mountain reference? |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
Dave LaCourse wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote: ... you dismissed many of us here for not marrying as well as yourself. ... What the hell does my "marrying well" have to do with it. Your "marrying well" has given you more income than you could have ever realized on your own and an exaggerated sense of how easy it is for all the rest of us to be as wealthy as yourself. And you lord it over us in a fashion that has been described as unseemly. Now, is my stay at Lakewood Camps on you or was that just another April Fool's joke ? You got three days on me, picked your time, and bring Kipper. I'll bring Henry. But, I don't want any **** from you about nymphing! That's very generous of you, thanks. By my calculation me and Kipper at Lakewood would cost $175/day. I just may take you up on that one of these years. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Dave LaCourse wrote: You got three days on me, picked your time, and bring Kipper. I'll bring Henry. But, I don't want any **** from you about nymphing! That's very generous of you, thanks. By my calculation me and Kipper at Lakewood would cost $175/day. I just may take you up on that one of these years. If I were you I'd take the cash. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 02:57:09 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: That's very generous of you, thanks. By my calculation me and Kipper at Lakewood would cost $175/day. I just may take you up on that one of these years. Anytime your want. |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:28:13 -0700, rw
wrote: If I were you I'd take the cash. If you were him you wouldn't get invited, Putz. |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
If so, it's a shame it's come to that. In many respects, there
have been sad laments as to how ROFF isn't what it used to be, blah, blah, blah. People come, people go, and the overall personality may change a bit; but it's still essentially SSDD. But bitching about the clave raffles? What's next, complaints about the quality of fly swap flies? Now, I've been to a few claves and was a one-time Penns Clave rafflemeister, and I'll allow as to there having always been some grumbling about inequities in the booty distribution; but this is the first I've noticed (and granted, I haven't been paying attention) that the nature of the raffles has changed to the point that people give donations with an expectation of receiving some return of greater or equal value. I'm chagrined. Why back in the "good ol' days", I remember when folks used to donate stuff out of the goodness of their ROFF souls. ROFFians would send stuff in with no expectation of receiving *anything* in return, much less complaining about a gift from another. Zimbo's bamboo, Mike C's rods, and Frank's quilt are but a few of the wonderfully generous items once donated out of generosity, not of greed. These events were supposed to be for fun, not profit. (I mean, who really wants a Big Mouth Billy Bass?). IMHO, if anyone donates to a raffle just to be eligible to receive a prize, they should just stay the hell out of it. I don't know who or under what circumstances your donation was criticized; but if that's what the raffles have become, then good riddance indeed. |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:28:13 -0700, rw wrote: If I were you I'd take the cash. If you were him you wouldn't get invited, Putz. I've now heard the same thing about you from three different people. You act like you're generous, but when you don't get the ass kissing you think you deserve then you get surly and start complaining about being taken advantage of. If you were truly generous you wouldn't advertise it on ROFF. You could email Fortenberry your invitation instead of posting on ROFF, but that would defeat your purpose, which is to be seen as a kind of beneficent wealthy patriarch. It's a terrible character flaw, and I'm surprised that at your advanced age you haven't learned it doesn't make you friends, but enemies. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
"rb608" wrote in message oups.com... If so, it's a shame it's come to that. In many respects, there have been sad laments as to how ROFF isn't what it used to be, blah, blah, blah. People come, people go, and the overall personality may change a bit; but it's still essentially SSDD. But bitching about the clave raffles? What's next, complaints about the quality of fly swap flies? Now, I've been to a few claves and was a one-time Penns Clave rafflemeister, and I'll allow as to there having always been some grumbling about inequities in the booty distribution; but this is the first I've noticed (and granted, I haven't been paying attention) that the nature of the raffles has changed to the point that people give donations with an expectation of receiving some return of greater or equal value. I'm chagrined. Why back in the "good ol' days", I remember when folks used to donate stuff out of the goodness of their ROFF souls. ROFFians would send stuff in with no expectation of receiving *anything* in return, much less complaining about a gift from another. Zimbo's bamboo, Mike C's rods, and Frank's quilt are but a few of the wonderfully generous items once donated out of generosity, not of greed. These events were supposed to be for fun, not profit. (I mean, who really wants a Big Mouth Billy Bass?). IMHO, if anyone donates to a raffle just to be eligible to receive a prize, they should just stay the hell out of it. I don't know who or under what circumstances your donation was criticized; but if that's what the raffles have become, then good riddance indeed. This isn't the first time this matter of raffle prizes has come up. It surfaces periodically and it's pretty much the same bunch that whines about giving too much and getting too little. It's part of the cost of doing business in a forum like this, where people can air grievances (real or imagined) that stem naturally from more or less haphazard face to face encounters. For that matter, it's also a perfectly natural part of the cost of doing business regardless of whether face to face encounters occur. None of this is surprising. Nor should anyone find it particularly distressing. What IS surprising.....and bears remembering.....is that so many people here who, as far a they know (at least at first), have little in common besides an interest in fly fishing have gotten together so many times and generally gotten along so well together. Also worth remembering is that, frequent lamentations notwithstanding, this is still a good virtual place to come to. Wolfgang |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
Wolfgang typed:
"rb608" wrote in message oups.com... If so, it's a shame it's come to that. In many respects, there have been sad laments as to how ROFF isn't what it used to be, blah, blah, blah. People come, people go, and the overall personality may change a bit; but it's still essentially SSDD. But bitching about the clave raffles? What's next, complaints about the quality of fly swap flies? snip What IS surprising.....and bears remembering.....is that so many people here who, as far a they know (at least at first), have little in common besides an interest in fly fishing have gotten together so many times and generally gotten along so well together. Also worth remembering is that, frequent lamentations notwithstanding, this is still a good virtual place to come to. Let's take a poll: Who *WAS* happy with their clave raffle prize? I'll go first - I was perfectly happy with my gain. Unfortunately, no one ever claimed the prize I donated, and since I wasn't in attendance to force the issue, this puts me forever in someone's debt. :( -- TL, Tim ------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
|
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message om... Having been accused in another thread of bringing a $5 item to a $20 raffle I must protest. In the first place it was a $10 raffle and this is what I brought: http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/...w_mou_solo.htm I carry one in my vest and I thought it was a practical, useful raffle gift. I thought Ken's raffle was very practical: http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/pd.../sam-mummy.jpg -tom |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:10:52 -0700, rw
wrote: It's a terrible character flaw, and I'm surprised that at your advanced age you haven't learned it doesn't make you friends, but enemies. I don't hang around this nut house to make friends or enemies. It doesn';t matter. My friends know who I am, and that is all I care, about, Putz. |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:17:26 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote: "Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message . com... Having been accused in another thread of bringing a $5 item to a $20 raffle I must protest. In the first place it was a $10 raffle and this is what I brought: http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/...w_mou_solo.htm I carry one in my vest and I thought it was a practical, useful raffle gift. I thought Ken's raffle was very practical: http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/pd.../sam-mummy.jpg -tom So did I. But the person receiving it sure as hell didn't. And because I was the raffle meister, I took the crap, not Ken. Go figure. Dave |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
"Tim J." wrote in message ... Let's take a poll: Who *WAS* happy with their clave raffle prize? I'll go first - I was perfectly happy with my gain. Unfortunately, no one ever claimed the prize I donated, and since I wasn't in attendance to force the issue, this puts me forever in someone's debt. :( -- TL, Tim ------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj I have to agree with Ken on this one. These raffles stink! I have won nothing but the bottom of the barrel of prizes. I don't remember what I put in the first western clave raffle, I think it was a bottle of wine or such, but all I got back was a Mike Connor hand built 6wt boron/graphite rod. At the next Western clave someone had the audacity to sneak a high-quality reel-and-possibles bag into the ceremony and I got stuck with that! Then at the Penn's Clave I attended ( and mind you I was forced to pay $5 to play) I had another little rod foisted off on me...and this time it wasn't even graphite!!! It was some bamboo conglomeration that somebody named Zimbo had cobbled together. The nerve of some people. I could go on and on, but you get the idea..Every year it's the same old thing whether its a dozen flies or a fishing shirt or a book or a flask, it's all just a bunch of worthless junk. And while we're at it, let's not forget that these raffles tend to cause all of the clave attendees to fester up in more or less close quarters for an hour or so. Who the hell wants THAT at a clave. If that kind of thing catches on it could lead us all straight to hell........ sharing dinner, telling lies, laughing, or worse yet, wayno serenading girl scouts in the middle of the night. And who has ever met a rafflemeister that shouldna been shot on sight? Every one of'em are lyin', cheatin, two-timin', tap-dancin, four-flushin', dastardly maroons. Burn'em all at the stake, I say. Yes, let's abolish this amoral aggregation before it leads to something truly despicable....like camaraderie.... Danl |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:20:38 -0400, "Tim J."
wrote: Wolfgang typed: "rb608" wrote in message oups.com... If so, it's a shame it's come to that. In many respects, there have been sad laments as to how ROFF isn't what it used to be, blah, blah, blah. People come, people go, and the overall personality may change a bit; but it's still essentially SSDD. But bitching about the clave raffles? What's next, complaints about the quality of fly swap flies? snip What IS surprising.....and bears remembering.....is that so many people here who, as far a they know (at least at first), have little in common besides an interest in fly fishing have gotten together so many times and generally gotten along so well together. Also worth remembering is that, frequent lamentations notwithstanding, this is still a good virtual place to come to. Let's take a poll: Who *WAS* happy with their clave raffle prize? I'll go first - I was perfectly happy with my gain. Unfortunately, no one ever claimed the prize I donated, and since I wasn't in attendance to force the issue, this puts me forever in someone's debt. :( Is it the nature of the beast to complain about a gift, especially if you gave more than you received? Probably. At every clave I have attended, I have been more than pleased with the results. Did I get back equal to what I gave? Sometimes. Got a nice C&R Flybox at Penns, a box of Big Dale's Bream flies at two different claves, a first aid kit like Ken gave, a Special Raffle Gift - Frank's wife's quilt, a hat with two fishing "how-to" books. I've been to about 10 claves, including the first hosted by wayno in which we tasted about $1100 worth of single malt scotches. The raffle night was always well attended, and it was especially nice to get everyone together. I've been raffle meister at least three times, and hat meister at least three times, while wayno has been t-shirt meister at least twice. It seems like it is the same people who do all the work at these claves. Tom is always the Penns Clave Meister and Joel the raffle meister, Warren is always (afaik) the Western Clave Meister, Wayno always took care of the t-shirts and like me taking care of the hats, lost money. I don't think there is anything wrong with the raffle system as it is. There will always be those that are unhappy about their gift, but to hell with them. The raffle and the clave is not about them. |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
Danl wrote:
I have to agree with Ken on this one. These raffles stink! ... I never had much of an opinion about the raffles one way or the other until yesterday but I do recall hearing some background bitching. Uncle Wally said at one point that he'd never be rafflemeister again because of some bitching he declined to attribute to anyone, and then there was the time the Mormon midget allegedly pulled some sleight of hand. And now I find out I'm a cheapskate. **** it. If you have to have some sort of an event for the whole 'Clave to gather in camaraderie everybody should chip in and hire a couple of strippers. YMMV -- Ken Fortenberry |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:51:42 -0700, "Danl"
wrote: snippage Yes, let's abolish this amoral aggregation before it leads to something truly despicable....like camaraderie.... Too phunny. And Fortenberry agrees wid ya! |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote **** it. If you have to have some sort of an event for the whole 'Clave to gather in camaraderie everybody should chip in and hire a couple of strippers. YMMV well, sure; but i would expect a dna test certificate from each participant. those false accusations can be *so* tiring, and outside the campfire ring, who knows what evil lurks... yfitons wayno |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 02:57:09 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: Dave LaCourse wrote: Ken Fortenberry wrote: ... you dismissed many of us here for not marrying as well as yourself. ... What the hell does my "marrying well" have to do with it. Your "marrying well" has given you more income than you could have ever realized on your own No ****, Little Beaver? What man *hasn't* realized more income with a working wife. Am I to be villified by you and other assholes in this nut house because I have a wife that works? Tatosian's wife works too. I guess he also married well! Your wife works! You and Tatosian are both ****in' hyptocrites! and an exaggerated sense of how easy it is for all the rest of us to be as wealthy as yourself. You aren't stupid, Ken. Even you should know that if you start investing in mutual funds at the ripe old age of 20, that by the time you're 65 you will be a millionaire, with or without a wife that works. If you were too ****in' stupid to prepare for your old age, that is your fault, not mine, and you should be blaming yourself, not those that have prepared for old age. And you lord it over us in a fashion that has been described as unseemly. Unseemly my ass. There is no such thing as proper or appropriate posts in this nut house. Was it unseemly of you to call Barnard's wife and daughters "****s" and "pussies", or was that just plain old ordinary unforgivable? ****in' hypocrite! If you think I am lording it over you, then good. Feel inferior? Impotent? Poor? Gooooood! Sorry that you didn't *plan* your life better? ****in' *real* good! Now, is my stay at Lakewood Camps on you or was that just another April Fool's joke ? Like I said, pick three days, preferably this June or September, and I could shiv a git how much it costs, ya ****in' putz! Come this year while I can still afford it and still enjoy it. Man, you **** me off at times.......I mean, you **** me off....... |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:14:20 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote: Am I to be villified by you and other assholes in this nut house because I have a wife that works? Tatosian's wife works too. I guess he also married well! Your wife works! You and Tatosian are both ****in' hyptocrites! You just don't get it. Lot's of folks have working wives, but you're the only one I know who brags about being a self made wealthy retiree, and still has a working (as opposed to retired) wife. FWIW -- Charlie... http://www.chocphoto.com |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote **** it. If you have to have some sort of an event for the whole 'Clave to gather in camaraderie everybody should chip in and hire a couple of strippers. added to my "notes to liven up Penn's clave" notebook.... Tom |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:25:20 -0400, Charlie Choc
wrote: but you're the only one I know who brags about being a self made wealthy retiree Well, I is, and **** youse guys that think it is braggin'. Putz! |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
Dave LaCourse wrote:
... Am I to be villified by you and other assholes in this nut house because I have a wife that works? Villified is too strong a word, I'd say you're being chastised for bragging too much about your wealth. Man, you **** me off at times.......I mean, you **** me off....... Good !! If you're ****ed off I must be doing something right ! ;-) -- Ken Fortenberry |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:23:34 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: If you're ****ed off I must be doing something right ! I kicked your ass once, and I'll do it again. I'm not the Putz, you know. :) |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:18:32 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote: On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:25:20 -0400, Charlie Choc wrote: but you're the only one I know who brags about being a self made wealthy retiree Well, I is, and **** youse guys that think it is braggin'. Putz! It is bragging if you and your wife aren't both living off just your income, blowhard. -- Charlie... http://www.chocphoto.com |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:30:34 -0400, Charlie Choc
wrote: It is bragging if you and your wife aren't both living off just your income, blowhard. Ahhh, but we *could* live just off of my income, ****tard. I don't give a good **** what you think, Choco. Anyone that has to have their own bedroom and bathroom at a clave is a ****in' pussy. |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:40:49 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote: Anyone that has to have their own bedroom and bathroom at a clave is a ****in' pussy. You get what you pay for, I guess. g -- Charlie... http://www.chocphoto.com |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:01:30 -0400, Charlie Choc
wrote: Anyone that has to have their own bedroom and bathroom at a clave is a ****in' pussy. You get what you pay for, I guess. Pussy. |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:24:14 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote: On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:01:30 -0400, Charlie Choc wrote: Anyone that has to have their own bedroom and bathroom at a clave is a ****in' pussy. You get what you pay for, I guess. Pussy. Nope, never paid for pussy. Never took a swing at anyone at a clave, either. Lots of things you do that I never have. -- Charlie... http://www.chocphoto.com |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:32:03 -0700, rw wrote:
Danl wrote: Yes, let's abolish this amoral aggregation before it leads to something truly despicable....like camaraderie.... Danl Good points, Danl. Let's have an end to this raffle perversion. It's about time. However, we need a substitute social event. I suggest a potlatch. :-) Or, just for rough tough Davie, cage fighting. g -- Charlie... http://www.chocphoto.com |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
rw wrote:
Danl wrote: Yes, let's abolish this amoral aggregation before it leads to something truly despicable....like camaraderie.... Good points, Danl. Let's have an end to this raffle perversion. It's about time. However, we need a substitute social event. I suggest a potlatch. :-) I really liked the Single Malt Scotch tasting, but given the ravages of time and the resulting decrepitude perhaps the 'Clave social event should be winner-take-all Bingo. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
"rw" wrote in message ... Danl wrote: Yes, let's abolish this amoral aggregation before it leads to something truly despicable....like camaraderie.... Danl Good points, Danl. Let's have an end to this raffle perversion. It's about time. However, we need a substitute social event. I suggest a potlatch. :-) Thus demonstrating that you have no more clues about social dynamics in other cultures than in your own. Wolfgang um......or should i be expecting some lovely gifts real soon? :) |
Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles
Danl wrote:
Yes, let's abolish this amoral aggregation before it leads to something truly despicable....like camaraderie.... Danl Good points, Danl. Let's have an end to this raffle perversion. It's about time. However, we need a substitute social event. I suggest a potlatch. :-) -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
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