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Mexican Clave, anyone?
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Mexican Clave, anyone?
rw wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/0...r_n_20264.html "And the per-person amounts approved for possession by anyone 18 or older could easily turn any college party into an all-nighter: half a gram of coke, a couple of Ecstasy pills, several doses of LSD, a few marijuana joints, a spoonful of heroin, 5 grams of opium and more than 2 pounds of peyote, the hallucinogenic cactus." Almost enough for a 4 hour Dead concert back in the day. -- Stan Gula http://gula.org/roffswaps |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
"Stan Gula" wrote in message half a gram of coke, a couple of Ecstasy pills, several doses of LSD, a few marijuana joints, a spoonful of heroin, 5 grams of opium and more than 2 pounds of peyote, the hallucinogenic cactus." Almost enough for a 4 hour Dead concert back in the day. -- Stan Gula a little light on the weed, but the 2 lbs of peyote might make one forget the oversight........ Tom |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
I'm in.
John... "rw" wrote in message k.net... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/0...r_n_20264.html -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
rw wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/0...r_n_20264.html Unfortunately, Fox has reconsidered: http://makeashorterlink.com/?X57222F0D I'm guessing that Dubya gave him a call and told him that we wouldn't hesitate to invade. Chuck Vance (just a tad ironic considering Dubya's "alleged" past drug history) |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
On Thu, 04 May 2006 07:47:23 -0500, Conan The Librarian
wrote: rw wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/0...r_n_20264.html Unfortunately, Fox has reconsidered: http://makeashorterlink.com/?X57222F0D I'm guessing that Dubya gave him a call and told him that we wouldn't hesitate to invade. Chuck Vance (just a tad ironic considering Dubya's "alleged" past drug history) Now, see, this is why the Bush jokes just come off flat and mean-spirited...try this: Unfortunately, Fox has reconsidered: http://makeashorterlink.com/?X57222F0D I'm guessing that Dubya gave him a call and said, "Vin-Chen-Tay, me A-me-go, what's with the change? You're harshin' my plans, man - the Dickster and I were plannin' a rockin' Mexican vacation in 2009"..."No, no, no...don't worry, I was gonna make him leave his shotgun at home..." HTH, R |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
Jonathan Cook wrote:
Conan The Librarian wrote: Unfortunately I'd have to disagree. OK. So am I to assume that you are in favor of the War on (some) Drugs? (just a tad ironic considering Dubya's "alleged" past drug history) Why ironic? Do you have any "past behavior" that you at some point decided wasn't something you wanted in your life? I know I do. Can an ex-thief believe thieving is wrong, and say so publicly? Certainly. However, when the Leader of the Free World (tm) meddles in another country's business to tell them they need to do things a certain way, and he has been guilty of that very behavior, it *is* ironic. That is not about right or wrong, it's just about what the word irony means. Chuck Vance |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
Jonathan Cook wrote:
Conan The Librarian wrote: So am I to assume that you are in favor of the War on (some) Drugs? I don't even know what the phrase "the War on Drugs" means, much less "the War on (some) Drugs", so you'll have to be responsible for your own assumptions ;-) You're not familiar with the phrase "War on Drugs"? Gosh, it's been in all the papers. I use "War on (Some) Drugs" to more accurately describe what it is. Alcohol, tobacco, other chemicals aren't included even though their effects are at least as bad as some of the ones that are currently illegal. I am in favor of keeping illegal drugs illegal. And I am in favor of stopping throwing money at a failed program that is doomed by its very nature. However, when the Leader of the Free World (tm) meddles in another country's business to tell them they need to do things a certain way, and he has been guilty of that very behavior, it *is* ironic. Ok. To me they are just totally unrelated. Like believing in democracy at the nation level while not giving your kids an equal vote in family matters. But if they are related, to me they'd be at most related in an _un-ironic_ way. I mean, if you had personal experience of destructive behavior, wouldn't you _want_ to help prevent others from it? On a personal level, sure. But when you try to bully another nation into acting the way you want them to, while you took part in the very activity you want them to ban ... Chuck Vance |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message ... ...I use "War on (Some) Drugs" to more accurately describe what it is. Alcohol, tobacco, other chemicals aren't included even though their effects are at least as bad as some of the ones that are currently illegal.... Alcohol and tobacco are good choices to demonstrate the demented hypocrisy that currently governs both public sentiment and governmental policies toward elective drug use because of the ambivalence both engender. Even better, from another point of view, is the most popular (by far) drug in the world.....caffeine.....no slouch in the potency and addiction departments. Wolfgang who knows that, sham though it is, even the fiction of a "war on drugs" would be utterly impossible to maintain without a plentiful supply of strong black coffee to get through those long, tedious stakeouts. :) |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
"Jonathan Cook" wrote in message ... Conan The Librarian wrote: You're not familiar with the phrase "War on Drugs"? Familiarity implies knowing what it means? That's another assumption. And I'm still not responsible for those ;-) Would I rather read of another meth lab bust down here than read that the problem is being ignored? You bet. Would I rather be inconvenienced by having to ask for Sudafed at a pharmacy counter than having it available in bulk to meth producers? You bet. I can't watch Frontline on PBS and conclude that society would benefit by allowing people a free choice to legally make and use meth if they want to. I know that it shouldn't, but it still does amaze me that so many people are unaware that the folks at Anheuser Bush, R.J. Reynolds, Folgers, etc. proudly (and with complete impunity) put their corporate names not only on their products but also on the facilities at which they manufacture/process them. Meth labs as we know them exist not DESPITE the "war on drugs", but BECAUSE OF it. I use "War on (Some) Drugs" to more accurately describe what it is. Alcohol, tobacco, other chemicals aren't included even though their effects are at least as bad as some of the ones that are currently illegal. I suspected that's what you meant by "some" but I still don't know what all is meant by a "war" on drugs. This, on the other hand, is no surprise at all. Do we shoot on sight any drug we come across? (Yes I'm being ridiculous but the phrase under question is so broad I find it impossible to declare that I support it or don't support it.) Your declarations are your own problem (or, to be more precise, one of them) but you should definitely support the immediate legalization of whatever anybody wants to ingest. You should NOT support a criminal class that was created by the ban of one drug eighty-some years ago and bolstered by the subsequent monopolies given to them in the ensuing decades. Nor should you support the largest prison system in the world, built primarily to house people criminalized by insane policies. I am in favor of keeping illegal drugs illegal. That's because you don't think much. And I am in favor of stopping throwing money at a failed program that is doomed by its very nature. I don't see how our two statements are opposed to each other. I'm all for abandoning expensive, ineffective programs... Bull****. Wolfgang |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
Jonathan Cook wrote:
Would I rather read of another meth lab bust down here than read that the problem is being ignored? You bet. OK so far, Would I rather be inconvenienced by having to ask for Sudafed at a pharmacy counter than having it available in bulk to meth producers? You bet. I strongly disgaree with that. "In Bulk" is one thing, a 100 pack is quite another. FWIW I can buy 100 packs of pseudoephedrine on-line - and the vendor is smart enough to limit me to 2 bottles at a time. I figure a store that runs on a computer based scanner equipped register system, that uses the little RFID tags in the boxes to discourage shoplifting, can likewise limit purchases easily to a bottle or two. My problem is that I have to ask at the pharmacist counter - and he goes home at 8PM. If I get an allergy attack and have serious congestion after 8, well, that sucks for me, doesn't it. This has happened to me *twice* this year so far. Here's a partial ingredient list for a meth recipe: # 1 Bottle of Rubbing Alchohol. # 1 Gallon Muriatic Acid ( Used for cleaning concrete) # 1 Gallon of Coleman's Fuel # 1 Gallon of Acetone # 1 Pack of Coffee Filters # 4 Bottles Iodine Tincture 2% (don't get the declorized it won't work) # 2 Bottles of Hydrogen peroxide # 1 Can Red Devils Lye # 4 Boxes Book Matches (try to get the ones with brown/red striker pads) # lithium batteries ****, how come none of this is behind the counter? Because that would be *stupid* and just inconvenience the legitimate users? And while I'm on a rant, why the **** can't I go into a drugstore and buy insulin syringes in the wonderful States of Alaska, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Maine, Mass, Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island? I'm *not* willing to suffer a little inconvenience in order to make sure heroin abusers can't get easy access to clean needles so I'm thinking seriously about moving away from New England. -- Stan Gula http://gula.org/roffswaps |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
"Stan Gula" wrote in message
And while I'm on a rant, why the **** can't I go into a drugstore and buy insulin syringes in the wonderful States of Alaska, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Maine, Mass, Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island? I'm *not* willing to suffer a little inconvenience in order to make sure heroin abusers can't get easy access to clean needles so I'm thinking seriously about moving away from New England. When I first acquired livestock and found that I was actually responsible for giving them various injections and immunizations, I was a bit surprised to find I could simply purchase all the sterile syringes I wanted from the farm supply store (not to mention various antibiotics & other stuff I'd need a prescription for if it was for a human.) Joe F. |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
"rb608" wrote in message news:XGx6g.15045$O_6.6288@trnddc08... "Stan Gula" wrote in message And while I'm on a rant, why the **** can't I go into a drugstore and buy insulin syringes in the wonderful States of Alaska, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Maine, Mass, Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island? I'm *not* willing to suffer a little inconvenience in order to make sure heroin abusers can't get easy access to clean needles so I'm thinking seriously about moving away from New England. When I first acquired livestock and found that I was actually responsible for giving them various injections and immunizations, I was a bit surprised to find I could simply purchase all the sterile syringes I wanted from the farm supply store (not to mention various antibiotics & other stuff I'd need a prescription for if it was for a human.) Meanwhile, what is quite possibly the largest drug cartel in the world (Coca-Cola and PepsiCo combined) does a brisk business in your children's schools......with the blessings (and financial support) of the school district, local, state, and national governments, and (MUCH more often than not) parents. :) Wolfgang |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
Jonathan Cook wrote:
Conan The Librarian wrote: You're not familiar with the phrase "War on Drugs"? Familiarity implies knowing what it means? That's another assumption. And I'm still not responsible for those ;-) Would I rather read of another meth lab bust down here than read that the problem is being ignored? You bet. Would I rather be inconvenienced by having to ask for Sudafed at a pharmacy counter than having it available in bulk to meth producers? You bet. I can't watch Frontline on PBS and conclude that society would benefit by allowing people a free choice to legally make and use meth if they want to. Errr ... did you realize that the reason these drug labs spring up is because the drug is illegal in the first place? I use "War on (Some) Drugs" to more accurately describe what it is. Alcohol, tobacco, other chemicals aren't included even though their effects are at least as bad as some of the ones that are currently illegal. I suspected that's what you meant by "some" but I still don't know what all is meant by a "war" on drugs. Do we shoot on sight any drug we come across? (Yes I'm being ridiculous but the phrase under question is so broad I find it impossible to declare that I support it or don't support it.) Then you should talk to the government entities who came up with the ridiculous phrase in the first place. One thing is certain: This so-called war has created whole "criminal" class of people who are jailed for nothing more than choosing recreational drugs that aren't in favor with the government. I am in favor of keeping illegal drugs illegal. And I am in favor of stopping throwing money at a failed program that is doomed by its very nature. I don't see how our two statements are opposed to each other. I'm all for abandoning expensive, ineffective programs... Then you should be in favor of legalizing drugs. So how successful do you think Prohibition was? What sort of problems do you see associated with it? Would you be in favor of re-instituting it? Chuck Vance |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
On 5/4/06 11:33 AM, in article , "Conan The
Librarian" wrote: it's just about what the word irony means. Uh oh. I'm staying the heck out of this one... :-( Bill |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
"Jonathan Cook" wrote in message ... Wolfgang wrote: [something] OBROFF: rise, drift with the current, inspecting what is floating by, refuse it as a poorly tied imitation. You must be borrowing flies from Tom ;-) Must be nice to live in a world in which it is sufficient to pretend to give a **** about one thing or another every once in a while. Wolfgang |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
Jonathan Cook wrote:
Conan The Librarian wrote: Errr ... did you realize that the reason these drug labs spring up is because the drug is illegal in the first place? So if it is legal, no one will be making it? Some will probably still make it, just like I suppose some folks still make moonshine. But, I suspect that most users would be more than happy to buy the stuff over-the-counter, thus eliminating much of the black market. Less demand, less profitability = fewer meth labs. IMO (yes, IMO), society would be absolutely irresponsible if it made legal a substance that spikes brain dopamine levels 10 times what an orgasm does, that destroys the brain, rots your skin and teeth, and I'm sure a bunch of other side effects. I have to admit to mixed emotions about the legalization of meth in particular, as I think it's a horrible drug. But, to be consistent, I would have to advocate for its legalization too. I guess if I was the Drug Czar (gawd what is it with the stupid terminology associated with this stuff?), I'd propose a series of smaller steps, like legalizing natural drugs like pot, peyote and psilocybin first. See how things go with those, and then move on to other drugs. Then you should talk to the government entities who came up with the ridiculous phrase in the first place. Umm, I'm not the one who brought it up. Well, no, and I didn't say you did. I use the phrase the War on Drugs because it has been the standard phrase used by the various government entities involved in legislating against drugs. jailed for nothing more than choosing recreational drugs that aren't in favor with the government. IMO (yes, IMO), just because society has made a choice to make some substances legal that can be abused in the "recreational drug" style, it doesn't follow that society is best served by then making all such substances legal. And plenty of drug users are in jail for other crimes, such as theft, that they commit as a consequence of their addiction. I don't see such effects diminishing if the drugs are legal, and I'm sure you're not going to then propose that theft be made legal. (No I don't believe that making a drug legal will suddenly mean that people stick within their budget to buy it.) But it would drive the prices down, which would go a long way towards eliminating the black market that exists. That black market puts otherwise law-abiding citizens in contact with folks who may really be criminals (the ones who are hoping to capitalize on illegal substances). Yes, some folks will still spend beyond their means, and commit crimes to support their habits. But I believe the vast majority will simply stop at the local drugstore on the way home and pick up a pack of Panama Reds as part of their regular recreational budget. Again, using that shining example of government stupidity, Prohibition, the very act of arbitrarily outlawing a substance that millions use for recreation creates a whole underworld of related crime that is eliminated when the black market is gone. Then there's the matter of the likelihood of getting black market drugs that have been adulterated with who-knows-what in an effort to maximize profits for the dealer. I'm all for abandoning expensive, ineffective programs... Then you should be in favor of legalizing drugs. Sorry, but we just see differently on that. I don't see at all why your statement logically follows mine. You are free to believe it. So you don't think the money currently spent to send folks to jail for recreational drug use (and the associated bureaucracy) is wasteful? You don't think that money could be better spent on jailing people who are killing, stealing and such? I make no apologies for not being a libertarian. I am not. I believe individuals have rights and I believe they also have responsiblities to society, and I believe society has responsibilities to individuals as well. I don't believe humans as a whole are well equiped to make responsible choices when confronted with a drug such as meth -- I include myself in there, I can honestly say that but for the grace of God there go I -- and I believe society is not well served by making such drugs legal. You are free to believe differently. I don't classify myself as a libertarian, though there are some areas where I agree with them. I respect your opinion, but I guess I have a little more faith in people's abilities to make choices for themselves. Or put another way, if they're stupid enough to ruin their lives with [insert *any* self-destructive behavior here], I don't see how it's the government's business to try to prevent them from doing that. *Educate* them on the potential dangers, and do so in a rational way, rather than the current scare tactics approach. Yes I understand the societyal hypocrisy with alcohol. But I disagree that it is as strong as some believe. Plenty of alcoholic beverages are consumed not for the purpose of altering one's mental state but simply for the taste. That is not true of other drugs. Illegal drugs have _one_ purpose. And frankly, yes, I think distilled alcohol was a technological innovation that stretched the bounds of human ability for responsible choices. Fermented drink has been around for thousands of years and while yes it can be abused it also has been very useful in supplying potable drinking supplies. But now we are so advanced we can create drugs that are way beyond any form of alcohol in terms of its physical effect. We humans are too frail to be faced with such drugs every time we walk down an aisle in Walgreens... Again, I guess I have more faith in human nature than you. We make choices every day about what to do and what not to do. It's all part of being a responsible human being. I just don't believe it's the goverment's job to do it for us, and I'm tired of seeing money thrown at something that *creates* crminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens. Chuck Vance |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
"Jonathan Cook" wrote in message ... Conan The Librarian wrote: Errr ... did you realize that the reason these drug labs spring up is because the drug is illegal in the first place? So if it is legal, no one will be making it? Yeah, just like beer. IMO (yes, IMO), society would be absolutely irresponsible if it made legal a substance that spikes brain dopamine levels 10 times what an orgasm does, that destroys the brain, rots your skin and teeth, and I'm sure a bunch of other side effects. A modern post-industrial society cannot stop (or even seriously dent) illegal drug use. It CAN exercise some degree of control over substances that are produced and distributed legally. It enjoys no such control over proscribed substances. It must choose whether it will go one way or the other. We see the consequences of choosing to abdicate control. Then you should talk to the government entities who came up with the ridiculous phrase in the first place. Umm, I'm not the one who brought it up. jailed for nothing more than choosing recreational drugs that aren't in favor with the government. IMO (yes, IMO), just because society has made a choice to make some substances legal that can be abused in the "recreational drug" style, it doesn't follow that society is best served by then making all such substances legal. Illegality is not a natural default state. Societies choose whether or not to make something illegal. And plenty of drug users are in jail for other crimes, such as theft, that they commit as a consequence of their addiction. I don't see such effects diminishing if the drugs are legal, and I'm sure you're not going to then propose that theft be made legal. (No I don't believe that making a drug legal will suddenly mean that people stick within their budget to buy it.) At the moment, very few people need to resort to theft in order to get their next fix of caffeine. Make caffeine illegal and watch what happens to the price. I'm all for abandoning expensive, ineffective programs... Then you should be in favor of legalizing drugs. Sorry, but we just see differently on that. I don't see at all why your statement logically follows mine. You are free to believe it. I make no apologies for not being a libertarian. See, there's your problem. You live in a world filled with buzz-words, catch phrases, canned opinions, facile labels, glib half-truths and thoughtless action. What the hell do libertarians (or any other flavor or nitwits, for that matter) have to do with any of this? Does thinking cause you actual physical pain.....or is it just a vague sort of queasiness? In either case, there are drugs that will help. I am not. I believe individuals have rights and I believe they also have responsiblities to society, and I believe society has responsibilities to individuals as well. Examine the evidence. Do it honestly, and you will find that you really don't believe any of that **** at all. I don't believe humans as a whole are well equiped to make responsible choices when confronted with a drug such as meth -- I include myself in there, I can honestly say that but for the grace of God there go I -- and I believe society is not well served by making such drugs legal. One can hardly argue with you assessment of your own deficiencies, but that leaves one with a natural skepticism concerning your ability to judge others correctly. You are free to believe differently. We would quite possibly have guessed that eventually. Yes I understand the societyal hypocrisy with alcohol. But I disagree that it is as strong as some believe. Plenty of alcoholic beverages are consumed not for the purpose of altering one's mental state but simply for the taste. Horse****, pure and simple. That is not true of other drugs. Illegal drugs have _one_ purpose. Again, as wrong as it could possibly be. All recreational drugs have multiple purposes. Not that it makes any difference. Fetching a buzz needs no justification. And frankly, yes, I think distilled alcohol was a technological innovation that stretched the bounds of human ability for responsible choices. Abject nonsense. I have it on good authority that "Plenty of alcoholic beverages are consumed not for the purpose of altering one's mental state but simply for the taste." What's irresponsible about taste? Fermented drink has been around for thousands of years and while yes it can be abused it also has been very useful in supplying potable drinking supplies. Zzzzzzzzzzzz. But now we are so advanced we can create drugs that are way beyond any form of alcohol in terms of its physical effect. Bull****. Ethanol is an extremely potent intoxicant. Any drug can be used responsibly. Any drug can be abused. Alcohol has always been.....and continues to be.....responsible for more crime and other irresponsible behavior than all others combined. We humans are too frail to be faced with such drugs every time we walk down an aisle in Walgreens... You should meet more humans. Wolfgang |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
"Wolfgang" wrote in message ... Must be nice to live in a world in which it is sufficient to pretend to give a **** about one thing or another every once in a while. Wolfgang Irony meter \..............!/ |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
"Tom Littleton" wrote in message news:aQb6g.13715$Un3.4781@trnddc05... "Stan Gula" wrote in message half a gram of coke, a couple of Ecstasy pills, several doses of LSD, a few marijuana joints, a spoonful of heroin, 5 grams of opium and more than 2 pounds of peyote, the hallucinogenic cactus." Almost enough for a 4 hour Dead concert back in the day. -- Stan Gula a little light on the weed, but the 2 lbs of peyote might make one forget the oversight........ Tom ****, if thats buttons that would equal at least a small herd of the White Totonka, or so Im told. Dave |
Mexican Clave, anyone?
"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message news:VNN6g.975$OF6.357@trnddc06... "Wolfgang" wrote in message ... Must be nice to live in a world in which it is sufficient to pretend to give a **** about one thing or another every once in a while. Wolfgang Irony meter \..............!/ Funny, isn't it? One can go blithely along for years earning respect, and then.....poof!.....in a heartbeat, it's all gone. Squandered. And for what? Wolfgang |
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