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1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
I posted some questions here a few years back before my first trip to
the Yoop and got some helpful advice (a grateful tip of the cap to Mr. Wolfgang) on streams around the Kenton area. Planning a return trip in a couple weeks and I'm hoping I can score some insights on a different topic this time: Black flies. Our last trip was in late summer/early fall, so these pests weren't really an issue. But with the return trip scheduled for the first week of July, I'm a little worried this time around. First, is it completely nuts to fish up there this time of year? There's some indication in archived posts on the topic that black fly season may be over by early July. Can anyone attest to how the season is shaping up so far this year? Second, is one repellent better than another for black flies/deer flies? I'm sure I could get multiple answers here, but any advice based on experience (or otherwise, I suppose) is appreciated. Finally, are black flies more of a stream nuisance, or should we expect to battle them around warmwater lakes as well? While I'm at it, I'll push my luck with a bonus question as well: Any Kenton-area streams fish better than others this time of year? Thanks a bunch for any help. Justin |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
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1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
jtd1218 wrote... I posted some questions here a few years back before my first trip to the Yoop and got some helpful advice (a grateful tip of the cap to Mr. Wolfgang) on streams around the Kenton area. Planning a return trip in a couple weeks and I'm hoping I can score some insights on a different topic this time: Black flies. Our last trip was in late summer/early fall, so these pests weren't really an issue. But with the return trip scheduled for the first week of July, I'm a little worried this time around. First, is it completely nuts to fish up there this time of year? Yes, but don't let that stop you. IME (moderately extensive), a bug net such as the OR Spring Ring (http://tinyurl.com/ez5wj), coupled with a pair of mesh gloves and long sleeves will keep you sane and almost bite free. And hoping for a breeze doesn't hurt, either..... There's some indication in archived posts on the topic that black fly season may be over by early July. Can anyone attest to how the season is shaping up so far this year? I wish I could. My IR trip isn't until mid-July, so I'll look for your report. :-) Typically June is the worst month for bugs, but that of course can vary tremendously depending on weather, etc. Second, is one repellent better than another for black flies/deer flies? DEET works. Well. Bear in mind it's various not-so-nice effects when applying. I prefer the REI Jungle Juice (cheapest 100% DEET (OK, 98.something) I've found). The higher DEET concentrations do not affect repellency, just the length of time between applications. I tried Picaridin (Cutter Advanced) last year on a moderatly skeeter/fly infested trip, but frankly, was not all that impressed with it. I do, however tend to be quite the bug attractor (Hey, at least something finds me attractive, huh?), so YMMV here. I'm sure I could get multiple answers here, but any advice based on experience (or otherwise, I suppose) is appreciated. Finally, are black flies more of a stream nuisance, or should we expect to battle them around warmwater lakes as well? IME, they're not too picky about habitat. Streams, lakes, hair, pants legs, cooking food, privies, etc. While I'm at it, I'll push my luck with a bonus question as well: Any Kenton-area streams fish better than others this time of year? Man-o-man do I wish I had an answer for that one. Dan |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
"Scott Seidman" wrote in message .4... wrote in news:1150736918.703332.76190 @h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: For black flies, I tend not to count on any of the repellants. Even with the repellents, things can get pretty darn miserable. I travel with a headnet, just in case, and if I knew I was heading into trouble, I'd pick up one of those bug jackets, and maybe even bring a lightweight cotton glove or something. -- Scott Reverse name to reply Scott, Is that just with black flies or all flies, including mosquitoes? Is there something about bug repellants that you know of that isn't given in the MSDS data? Reason for asking I'll be in Alaska the first two weeks of July. -tom |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
: "Scott Seidman" wrote in message .4... wrote in news:1150736918.703332.76190 @h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: For black flies, I tend not to count on any of the repellants. Even with the repellents, things can get pretty darn miserable. I travel with a headnet, just in case, and if I knew I was heading into trouble, I'd pick up one of those bug jackets, and maybe even bring a lightweight cotton glove or something. -- Scott Reverse name to reply Scott, Is that just with black flies or all flies, including mosquitoes? Is there something about bug repellants that you know of that isn't given in the MSDS data? Reason for asking I'll be in Alaska the first two weeks of July. -tom Nothing really beyond the ken, but black flies seem to be able to simply ignore repellents when they want to, and then life can get real miserable real fast. See http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2167.html and look at the prevention section. I know you like traveling ultra light, but if the area you're heading into has a reputation of black fly activity in early July, you might want to pick up a head net. If the flys are really bad, buy more than one, and gouge your travel companions on the price! You might also do up your travel clothes with Permethrin-- that's most conveniently done in advance. I've had some success with treating a bandana with Permethrin and wearing around my neck. Wrist bands might help too. One treatment lasts about two weeks-- longer if you keep it in a plastic baggy. -- Scott Reverse name to reply |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in : "Scott Seidman" wrote in message .4... wrote in news:1150736918.703332.76190 @h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: For black flies, I tend not to count on any of the repellants. Even with the repellents, things can get pretty darn miserable. I travel with a headnet, just in case, and if I knew I was heading into trouble, I'd pick up one of those bug jackets, and maybe even bring a lightweight cotton glove or something. -- Scott Reverse name to reply Scott, Is that just with black flies or all flies, including mosquitoes? Is there something about bug repellants that you know of that isn't given in the MSDS data? Reason for asking I'll be in Alaska the first two weeks of July. -tom Perhaps http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6064633275 &category=11741 will do for a mosquito glove -- Scott Reverse name to reply |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
On 19 Jun 2006 20:42:01 GMT, Scott Seidman wrote:
I've had some success with treating a bandana with Permethrin and wearing around my neck. Wrist bands might help too. One treatment lasts about two weeks-- longer if you keep it in a plastic baggy. I treat my hats, and that seems to help some as well. -- Charlie... http://www.chocphoto.com |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
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1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
On 19 Jun 2006 17:54:41 GMT, Scott Seidman
wrote: For black flies, I tend not to count on any of the repellants. Even with the repellents, things can get pretty darn miserable. I travel with a headnet, just in case, and if I knew I was heading into trouble, I'd pick up one of those bug jackets, and maybe even bring a lightweight cotton glove or something. If you use a headnet, be sure it is capable of handling deet. It will be useless without the deet, for the insects will swarm over the net trying to get to your face. My grandson used one in Labrador, much to our amusement. Once the boat stopped and the insects (black flies, noseeums, and skeeters) covered his net so badly that he couldn't see. The net came with a warning not to use deet on it. Dave |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
Scott Seidman wrote: "Tom Nakashima" wrote in : "Scott Seidman" wrote in message .4... wrote in news:1150736918.703332.76190 @h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: For black flies, I tend not to count on any of the repellants. Even with the repellents, things can get pretty darn miserable. I travel with a headnet, just in case, and if I knew I was heading into trouble, I'd pick up one of those bug jackets, and maybe even bring a lightweight cotton glove or something. -- Scott Reverse name to reply Scott, Is that just with black flies or all flies, including mosquitoes? Is there something about bug repellants that you know of that isn't given in the MSDS data? Reason for asking I'll be in Alaska the first two weeks of July. -tom Nothing really beyond the ken, but black flies seem to be able to simply ignore repellents when they want to, and then life can get real miserable real fast. See http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2167.html and look at the prevention section. I know you like traveling ultra light, but if the area you're heading into has a reputation of black fly activity in early July, you might want to pick up a head net. If the flys are really bad, buy more than one, and gouge your travel companions on the price! You might also do up your travel clothes with Permethrin-- that's most conveniently done in advance. I've had some success with treating a bandana with Permethrin and wearing around my neck. Wrist bands might help too. One treatment lasts about two weeks-- longer if you keep it in a plastic baggy. -- Scott Reverse name to reply Of course you are aware that Permethrin is a rather potent nerotoxin right? Google it and be afraid, be very afraid. :-) vis. *... The insecticide permethrin (in the synthetic pyrethroid family) is widely used on cotton, wheat, corn, alfalfa, and other crops. In addition, over 100 million applications are made annually in and around U.S. homes. Permethrin, like all synthetic pyrethroids, is a neurotoxin. Symptoms include tremors, incoordination, elevated body temperature, increased aggressive behavior, and disruption of learning. Laboratory tests suggest that permethrin is more acutely toxic to children than to adults. ...* david N. |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
David wrote:
Of course you are aware that Permethrin is a rather potent nerotoxin right? Google it and be afraid, be very afraid. :-) vis. *... The insecticide permethrin (in the synthetic pyrethroid family) is widely used on cotton, wheat, corn, alfalfa, and other crops. In addition, over 100 million applications are made annually in and around U.S. homes. Permethrin, like all synthetic pyrethroids, is a neurotoxin. Symptoms include tremors, incoordination, elevated body temperature, increased aggressive behavior, and disruption of learning. Laboratory tests suggest that permethrin is more acutely toxic to children than to adults. ...* david N. Actually, permethrin is generally considered a relatively low toxicity insecticide. It has pretty low toxicity both through oral and dermal routes. You would have to have an awful lot applied to you before you showed any symptoms. Mammals can metabolize it pretty rapidly. It is registered and safe to use on a variety of mammals. It can have detrimental effects in aquatic systems, however. See the fact sheet at http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/permethr.htm Tim Lysyk |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
Charlie Choc wrote:
On 19 Jun 2006 20:42:01 GMT, Scott Seidman wrote: I've had some success with treating a bandana with Permethrin and wearing around my neck. Wrist bands might help too. One treatment lasts about two weeks-- longer if you keep it in a plastic baggy. I treat my hats, and that seems to help some as well. Has anyone had experience with the Orvis (or any brand) "Bug-off jackets? I always carry a headnet in my tackle bag but am reluctant to spend the bucks on the jacket. Frank Sr. ....so far, bug free this year |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
"Daniel-San" wrote in
.com: I tried Picaridin (Cutter Advanced) last year on a moderatly skeeter/fly infested trip, but frankly, was not all that impressed with it. I had a good time with it, but I was using Cutter Advanced Sport, which is higher concentration. -- Scott Reverse name to reply |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
"David" wrote in news:1150766614.261306.12340
@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: Permethrin, like all synthetic pyrethroids, is a neurotoxin. Its fine when used as directed as an insect repellent. In this mode, permethrin is applied to clothing and allowed to dry before wearing it. -- Scott Reverse name to reply |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
Scott Seidman wrote: "David" wrote in news:1150766614.261306.12340 @c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: Permethrin, like all synthetic pyrethroids, is a neurotoxin. Its fine when used as directed as an insect repellent. In this mode, permethrin is applied to clothing and allowed to dry before wearing it. -- Scott Reverse name to reply I know sorta but it is still a neurotoxin and it's not recommended for use on small children, pregnent or lactating women. Now I'm none of the preceding but it is still a neurotoxin bub :-) DEET works for me on black flies w/nets etc, chiggers, and the other biting insects w/ the only side effect that it's not good on your plastic worms. shrug From my experience Permethrin is not as effective as DEET. Tom try this experiment while in the U.P: use DEET on one side of your body arms hands face etc and that other stuff on the other. Report back please. david N. |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
"David" wrote in news:1150834962.086062.80580
@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: I know sorta but it is still a neurotoxin and it's not recommended for use on small children, pregnent or lactating women Permethrin is used on hundreds of children every day to kill lice, and as a directly applied liquid solution. I suspect BuzzOff is some kind of bound permethrin-- actually, having checked the EPA registration they boast about I *know* buzzoff is permethrin, but still have no clue as to any special binding or carrier. BuzzOff has a children's line. The CDC *recommends* permethrin for childrens' clothing http://www.cdc.gov/NCIDOD/DVBID/west..._repellent.htm From the same page "Q. Can insect repellents be used by pregnant or nursing women? A. Other than the routine precautions noted earlier, EPA does not recommend any additional precautions for using registered repellents on pregnant or lactating women. Consult your health care provider if you have questions." --so at least the CDC says the EPA says that permethrin (as is any registered repellent) is OK for use on children, as well as pregnant and lactating women, when used as directed. From the EPA: "Pyrethroids can be used for public health mosquito control programs without posing unreasonable risks to human health when applied according to the label. Pyrethroids are considered to pose slight risks of acute toxicity to humans, but at high doses, pyrethroids can affect the nervous system." Because of huge public health risk from the world's deadliest insect, there have been tons of studies. There are arguments about the relative efficacy of DEET vs permethrin, but it is almost universally agreed that permethrin does a bang-up job of preventing bites through clothes, works better on ticks, and in conjuction with DEET provides nearly 99.9% protection from mosquito bites-- much better than DEET alone. -- Scott Reverse name to reply |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
"David" wrote in message ps.com... Tom try this experiment while in the U.P: use DEET on one side of your body arms hands face etc and that other stuff on the other. Report back please. david N. Think it's already been done: http://www.geocities.com/snazzyandco/Half_face_boy.jpg -tom |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
Thank you all for the responses. Sounds like Permathrin (which I hadn't
even heard of previously) is worth a try, and I'll definitely invest in a headnet. The daily DEET shower goes without saying I suppose. Much thanks. I'll report back on what works best and what doesn't. Justin |
1001 U.P. Black Fly Questions
wrote in message ups.com... I posted some questions here a few years back before my first trip to the Yoop and got some helpful advice (a grateful tip of the cap to Mr. Wolfgang) on streams around the Kenton area. Planning a return trip in a couple weeks and I'm hoping I can score some insights on a different topic this time: Black flies. Our last trip was in late summer/early fall, so these pests weren't really an issue. But with the return trip scheduled for the first week of July, I'm a little worried this time around. First, is it completely nuts to fish up there this time of year? It's completely nuts to fish up there any time of the year. Stay away! While I'm at it, I'll push my luck with a bonus question as well: Any Kenton-area streams fish better than others this time of year? See above comment. Wisconsin has some nice lakes. Try them instead. Good luck. |
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