old-time floatant(?)
 

Hi Folks,

Been reading the posts about different commercial floatants, and it
reminded me of a technique I picked up in my days as a young buck
flyfisherman (I was 17 or so). Wondered if anyone else had heard of
it.

Back in those days (1980s) I had some type of silicon-based floatant in
my vest that I used fairly regularly. But often as not I would just
dab my finger on my forehead or nose and use that natural oil/grease to
dress my fly. Quicker and easier than digging out the synthetic stuff.
Anybody ever heard of this? I can't remember if I read it in a fly
fishing mag, or if it was something that my grandfather (a master with
rod, leader, and fly) used to do.

I learned in a video about flyfishing in PA recently that trout have an
advanced sense of smell, or that they can detect odors/chemicals in the
water, and that comes into play with food selection. Are floatants
odorless? And, I wonder, was my homegrown method stinking up the fly
with odors (most likely pizza and beer at that time)?

Mark67

old-time floatant(?)
 

"Mark67" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Folks,

Been reading the posts about different commercial floatants, and it
reminded me of a technique I picked up in my days as a young buck
flyfisherman (I was 17 or so). Wondered if anyone else had heard of
it.

Back in those days (1980s) I had some type of silicon-based floatant in
my vest that I used fairly regularly. But often as not I would just
dab my finger on my forehead or nose and use that natural oil/grease to
dress my fly. Quicker and easier than digging out the synthetic stuff.
Anybody ever heard of this? I can't remember if I read it in a fly
fishing mag, or if it was something that my grandfather (a master with
rod, leader, and fly) used to do.

Never heard of using that method for floating flies, but it used to be
commonly recommended for lubricating ferrules. Modern composite ferrules
don't need lubrication and doing this just gives dust and dirt something to
stick to. The salt excreted in sweat will corrode metal ferrules.

As for waterproofing flies, I suspect it's just about useless. Natural skin
oils aren't viscous or stable enough......know anybody who repels water?
:)

I learned in a video about flyfishing in PA recently that trout have an
advanced sense of smell, or that they can detect odors/chemicals in the
water, and that comes into play with food selection. Are floatants
odorless? And, I wonder, was my homegrown method stinking up the fly
with odors (most likely pizza and beer at that time)?

Trout certainly do have a sense of smell. How acute it is is a matter of
some debate. Whether or not it matters to fly fishers is often hotly
debated. Personally, I've never paid any attention to the matter of smell
out in the stream. I catch my share of fish.

Wolfgang

old-time floatant(?)
 

Never heard of using that method for floating flies, but it used to be
commonly recommended for lubricating ferrules. Modern composite
ferrules
don't need lubrication and doing this just gives dust and dirt
something to
stick to. The salt excreted in sweat will corrode metal ferrules.

As for waterproofing flies, I suspect it's just about useless. Natural
skin
oils aren't viscous or stable enough......know anybody who repels
water?
:)

You know, I didn't even think about the salt content. Bad stuff all
around. And indeed, human oil is pretty wimpy stuff come to think of
it. Hmmm... Guess that was one of the many odd greenhorn tactics
that contributed to a low success rate in those early years on the
river. The dry flies were most certainly too much underwater. Ah,
youth.

But what fish in its right mind (brain stem?) would turn down something
that smelled like Bud and pepperoni? That's what I'd like to know.
I'm sure I already know the answer.

Say, are there resources on the web, or books, or just folklore out
there about pre-synthetic fly dressing substances in the 19th or 20th
centuries? I imagine that there were a number of well known recipes.
Anybody know what was in them?

Thanks, Wolfgang.

Mark67

old-time floatant(?)
 

I'm using up my rather large supply of Gink/Albolene. I treat the new
fly out of the box. It can't hurt (unless its a CDC pattern, in which
case it's a disaster). After that, I use Frog's Fanny/Cabosil TS720
(treated, hydrophobic fumed silica). Gink and its imitators don't work
when the fly is wet, and especially not when the fly is soaked with fish
slime. I wash off a slimed fly and treat it with copious amounts of
"Frog's Fanny." It floats to beat all get out.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

old-time floatant(?)
 

On 26 Jul 2006 15:18:47 -0700, "Mark67" wrote:

I imagine that there were a number of well known recipes.
Anybody know what was in them?

I imagine someone a long time ago used paraffin or bees wax to help
float a dry, and maybe even whale oil or its by-products.

I believe that wet flies were more in favor than dries back in the
19th century, so a floatant wouldn't be necessary. You seldom see
someone using a wet fly nowadays, but when I was a kid, they were very
popular, and no, I'm not *that* old. I still use them and fish them
like a nymph.

Dave

old-time floatant(?)
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:

I believe that wet flies were more in favor than dries back in the
19th century, so a floatant wouldn't be necessary. You seldom see
someone using a wet fly nowadays, but when I was a kid, they were very
popular, and no, I'm not *that* old. I still use them and fish them
like a nymph.

Classic "wet flies" are supposed to represent drowned mayflies. In fact,
trout probably take them as not-very-good nymph imitations. Modern day
"nymphs" are a vast improvement, imitating things that fish actually eat.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

old-time floatant(?)
 

You seldom see someone using a wet fly nowadays, but.... I still use them and fish them
like a nymph.

Dave

Dave, I worked as a "controller" at the one-fly tournament on Spruce
Creek this spring. On the first day, a woman on the beat next to mine
caught five trout on a wet soft-hackle sulfur. The second day, she
caught five trout in one hour on my beat, using the same fly.

Her team, which she led in points, came in about fourth in the
tournament, out of about 75 teams.

Obviously she knew what she was doing.

vince

old-time floatant(?)
 

"vincent p. norris" wrote

Obviously she knew what she was doing.


or, more likely, the trout didn't.

yfitons
wayno

old-time floatant(?)
 

In article , says...
Personally, I've never paid any attention to the matter of smell
out in the stream. I catch my share of fish.


Well, sure, you might ... but what about the guy fishing downstream
from you?

Kevin

old-time floatant(?)
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave LaCourse"
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 7:43 PM
Subject: old-time floatant(?)


On 26 Jul 2006 15:18:47 -0700, "Mark67" wrote:

I imagine that there were a number of well known recipes.
Anybody know what was in them?

I imagine someone a long time ago used paraffin or bees wax to help
float a dry, and maybe even whale oil or its by-products.

I believe that wet flies were more in favor than dries back in the
19th century, so a floatant wouldn't be necessary. You seldom see
someone using a wet fly nowadays, but when I was a kid, they were very
popular, and no, I'm not *that* old. I still use them and fish them
like a nymph.

Dave



I'm surprised to hear many don't still use Wets....it represents a bug of
whatever sort hatching into the open water. A stage which can be fished
exclusively very successfully. You may have heard that a nymph can be a
good fly to use prior to a big evening hatch (or any time of the day really)
of emerging duns. The wet fly represents the first step of their emergence
and can also be very effective at this time.

And...because the nymphs begin to move around just before emergence, fishing
the wet like a nymph can be very productive also as they begin to bulge and
shed their old existence.

Tom was pleasantly surprised one year when I fished his March Brown Emerger
as a nymph with much success. Worked with the same concept really, the fish
usually took the fly on the swing off of the bottom.

The last note about wets is it is a great fly to learn fly fishing on. Of
course for those of use fortunate to be around water with productive
hatches, but it pretty simple to chuck the fly across the water, and
upstream, working the swing.

I've heard from some that this is very productive with soft hackles also.

Mike

old-time floatant(?)
 

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:58:41 -0400, vincent p. norris
wrote:

You seldom see someone using a wet fly nowadays, but.... I still use them and fish them
like a nymph.

Dave

Dave, I worked as a "controller" at the one-fly tournament on Spruce
Creek this spring. On the first day, a woman on the beat next to mine
caught five trout on a wet soft-hackle sulfur. The second day, she
caught five trout in one hour on my beat, using the same fly.

Her team, which she led in points, came in about fourth in the
tournament, out of about 75 teams.

Obviously she knew what she was doing.

vince

Although she fished dries more often, my mother preferred wets, and if
there wasn't a hatch on, that would be the first fly she'd use. I
don't remember nymphs in those days, but she fished a wet similar to
the way you would fish a nymph today.

When Joanne and I were clearing her home after her death 11 years ago,
we found two Wheatley fly boxes. One was full of dries, and the other
had wet flies she had tied. When I took one out, it fell apart in my
hand. My grandsons now have them displayed in their mother's china
cabinet.

Dave

old-time floatant(?)
 

Wolfgang wrote:

"Mark67" wrote in message
oups.com...

Back in those days (1980s) I had some type of silicon-based floatant in
my vest that I used fairly regularly. But often as not I would just
dab my finger on my forehead or nose and use that natural oil/grease to
dress my fly. Quicker and easier than digging out the synthetic stuff.
Anybody ever heard of this? I can't remember if I read it in a fly
fishing mag, or if it was something that my grandfather (a master with
rod, leader, and fly) used to do.

Never heard of using that method for floating flies, but it used to be
commonly recommended for lubricating ferrules. Modern composite ferrules
don't need lubrication and doing this just gives dust and dirt something to
stick to. The salt excreted in sweat will corrode metal ferrules.

Some folks also recommend using the natural oils from alongside your
nose when burnishing a card scraper (to keep it from galling).


Chuck Vance (hey, we have been talking about woodworking, haven't
we?)

old-time floatant(?)
 

"Kevin Vang" wrote in message
t...
In article , says...
Personally, I've never paid any attention to the matter of smell
out in the stream. I catch my share of fish.


Well, sure, you might ... but what about the guy fishing downstream
from you?

Yeah, I get some of those too......but they're a bitch to land on light
tippet.

Wolfgang
who figures the evidence suggests that watching his backcast is somebody
else's problem.

old-time floatant(?)
 

On 7/26/06 8:58 PM, in article ,
"vincent p. norris" wrote:

one-fly tournament

snip

Her team, which she led in points, came in about fourth in the
tournament, out of about 75 teams.

snip

Ick.

Bill

old-time floatant(?)
 

On 7/26/06 4:34 PM, in article
, "Mark67"
wrote:

Back in those days (1980s) I had some type of silicon-based floatant in
my vest that I used fairly regularly. But often as not I would just
dab my finger on my forehead or nose and use that natural oil/grease to
dress my fly. Quicker and easier than digging out the synthetic stuff.
Anybody ever heard of this? I can't remember if I read it in a fly
fishing mag, or if it was something that my grandfather (a master with
rod, leader, and fly) used to do.

I learned in a video about flyfishing in PA recently that trout have an
advanced sense of smell, or that they can detect odors/chemicals in the
water, and that comes into play with food selection. Are floatants
odorless? And, I wonder, was my homegrown method stinking up the fly
with odors (most likely pizza and beer at that time)?

One thing to keep in mind about using the "finger 'longside the nose or
forehead" trick, is that if you applied sunscreen or bug dope earlier in the
day, you can be sure that the scent of either (or both!) is going to sully
your fly. So be careful from whence you gather your bodily oils!

I just had a gander in Bergman's classic "Trout", first published in 1938.
In the section on dry flies, he describes a home-brew dry fly goo involving
paraffin wax and gasoline (!).

Bill

old-time floatant(?)
 

rw wrote:

BTW, I don't recommend snorting Frog's Fanny.



Speaking from experience?



They used to use carbon tetrachloride as a solvent for the wax which is
where the danger was that George referred to.

Willi

old-time floatant(?)
 

Willi wrote:
rw wrote:


BTW, I don't recommend snorting Frog's Fanny.



Speaking from experience?

Nope.

They used to use carbon tetrachloride as a solvent for the wax which is
where the danger was that George referred to.

Right. My recollection was faulty. Carbon tetrachloride is nasty stuff.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

old-time floatant(?)
 

On 7/27/06 12:58 PM, in article
, "rw"
wrote:

Willi wrote:
rw wrote:


BTW, I don't recommend snorting Frog's Fanny.



Speaking from experience?

Nope.

They used to use carbon tetrachloride as a solvent for the wax which is
where the danger was that George referred to.

Right. My recollection was faulty. Carbon tetrachloride is nasty stuff.

And Bergman mentions it in his book as a substitute for using gasoline,
along with ether or benzine.

I suppose that while I enjoy reading the old guys, some caution should be
used when following any recipes involving chemicals!

I also read through a short bit of the section on dry fly sizes. He talks
about fishing the Firehole and being told to use "small flies". He has a
hard time finding anything small in his boxes, small being 16 or 18!

Bill

old-time floatant(?)
 

Ick.

I fear I'm too dense to figure out what you mean by "Ick," Bill, but
if you're registering your distaste for "tournaments," I should add
that this tournament made about $50,000 for the local Youth Service
Bureau, which helps kids who need it.

This was its tenth year and all told, it has made something like
$300,000 for that charity.

vince

old-time floatant(?)
 

Wondering if WD-40 and paraffin wax might work?
Scotch Guard?

If you can buy Cavalier brand silicone liquid shoe waterproofer, in a
four ounce bottle with dauber, it's a great fly floatant. I used it
for years, applying it with a small camels-hair brush to the parts of
the fly I wanted to float, but not the parts I wanted to sink (e.g.,
emergers.)

To my great regret I can no longer buy it in these parts, so I've been
experimenting with Thompson Water Seal. I treat the flies when I tie
them, and it's more or less permanent. Now that I have "Cabosil,"
I'll use that for on-the-stream "refreshing."

vince

old-time floatant(?)
 

"William Claspy" wrote in message
...
On 7/26/06 4:34 PM, in article
, "Mark67"
wrote:

Back in those days (1980s) I had some type of silicon-based floatant in
my vest that I used fairly regularly. But often as not I would just
dab my finger on my forehead or nose and use that natural oil/grease to
dress my fly. Quicker and easier than digging out the synthetic stuff.
Anybody ever heard of this? I can't remember if I read it in a fly
fishing mag, or if it was something that my grandfather (a master with
rod, leader, and fly) used to do.

I learned in a video about flyfishing in PA recently that trout have an
advanced sense of smell, or that they can detect odors/chemicals in the
water, and that comes into play with food selection. Are floatants
odorless? And, I wonder, was my homegrown method stinking up the fly
with odors (most likely pizza and beer at that time)?

One thing to keep in mind about using the "finger 'longside the nose or
forehead" trick, is that if you applied sunscreen or bug dope earlier in
the
day, you can be sure that the scent of either (or both!) is going to sully
your fly. So be careful from whence you gather your bodily oils!

I just had a gander in Bergman's classic "Trout", first published in 1938.
In the section on dry flies, he describes a home-brew dry fly goo
involving
paraffin wax and gasoline (!).

Bill


That use to be a common way to watterproof a tent. The gasoline was just to
the paraffin into the cotton canvas. After the gasoline evaporated the
tent went from being a two minute fire to a 30 second fire. A tolorable
risk I suppose if your camping in the days before coated nylon and goretex.

old-time floatant(?)
 

"BJConner" wrote in message
news:dgqyg.25$zV6.1@trnddc03...

"William Claspy" wrote in message
...
!

I just had a gander in Bergman's classic "Trout", first published in
1938.
In the section on dry flies, he describes a home-brew dry fly goo
involving
paraffin wax and gasoline (!).

Bill


That use to be a common way to watterproof a tent. The gasoline was just
to the paraffin into the cotton canvas. After the gasoline evaporated
the tent went from being a two minute fire to a 30 second fire. A
tolorable risk I suppose if your camping in the days before coated nylon
and goretex.

Not sure if any of you ride motorcycles, talking about the British ones in
the 50s/60's/70's and remember
the waxedcotton Belstaff Jackets of England...yes the black ones. Gosh do I
miss my BSA Goldstar.
-tom

old-time floatant(?)
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote

Not sure if any of you ride motorcycles, talking about the British ones in
the 50s/60's/70's and remember
the waxedcotton Belstaff Jackets of England...yes the black ones. Gosh do
I miss my BSA Goldstar.
-tom

i still have a shredded, shrunken old barbour jacket; black, belted,
with bike makers' patches. i wore it for several years during the mid and
late '70's in enduros and cross country dirt bike races.
most fun i've ever had.

yfitons
wayno(yamaha, penton, ktm, bultaco)

old-time floatant(?)
 

On 7/27/06 8:27 PM, in article ,
"vincent p. norris" wrote:

Ick.

I fear I'm too dense to figure out what you mean by "Ick," Bill, but
if you're registering your distaste for "tournaments," I should add
that this tournament made about $50,000 for the local Youth Service
Bureau, which helps kids who need it.

This was its tenth year and all told, it has made something like
$300,000 for that charity.

I think you are underestimating your figuring-out capabilities, Vince! You
hit the nail on the head. I'm happy you are raising money, but...

Ick.

Bill

old-time floatant(?)
 

I fear I'm too dense to figure out what you mean by "Ick," Bill, but
if you're registering your distaste for "tournaments,"......

You hit the nail on the head. I'm happy you are raising money, but...

Ick.

In general I share your feelings about turning a pleasant sport into a
competition. Were it not for charity, I wouldn't participate.

So I won't even mention there's another tournament on the Little J
that makes even more money per year, for the Cystic Fibrosis
Foundation. ((:-))

vince

old-time floatant(?)
 

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
m...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote

Not sure if any of you ride motorcycles, talking about the British ones
in the 50s/60's/70's and remember
the waxedcotton Belstaff Jackets of England...yes the black ones. Gosh
do I miss my BSA Goldstar.
-tom

i still have a shredded, shrunken old barbour jacket; black, belted,
with bike makers' patches. i wore it for several years during the mid and
late '70's in enduros and cross country dirt bike races.
most fun i've ever had.

yfitons
wayno(yamaha, penton, ktm, bultaco)


Wayne, I also went through two Yamaha SR500 singles, always wanted the XT,
or the TT. I made the mistake of washing my Belstaff jacket after 5 years,
and when I took it out of the washing machine it fell apart.
I'm sure you remember Kenny Roberts.
-tom

old-time floatant(?)
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote

I'm sure you remember Kenny Roberts.

i remember him, yes; but our heroes were motocrossers and woods racers:
roger decoster, bob hannah, the penton brothers...

yfitons
wayno(ah, bob hannah--the human palindrome)

old-time floatant(?)
 

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote

I'm sure you remember Kenny Roberts.

i remember him, yes; but our heroes were motocrossers and woods racers:
roger decoster, bob hannah, the penton brothers...

yfitons
wayno(ah, bob hannah--the human palindrome)


My dirt bike hero was Malcolm Smith..."On Any Sunday"
-tom