Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

A few years ago I brought my grandson to the Middle Fork of the Salmon
for a camping trip of three days. We fished to our hearts content,
catching some very nice cuts.

Now it's his sister's turn. She is 16 and I am in the process of
planning a drift boat (not a raft) trip down the Middle Fork. There
are so many outfitters that I don't know who to use. There is an
Orvis endorsed outfitter that looks pretty good, but there are others
that also look good.

Any recommendations from roffians who have done this float? And, what
is the best time of year?

Dave

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:
A few years ago I brought my grandson to the Middle Fork of the Salmon
for a camping trip of three days. We fished to our hearts content,
catching some very nice cuts.

Now it's his sister's turn. She is 16 and I am in the process of
planning a drift boat (not a raft) trip down the Middle Fork. There
are so many outfitters that I don't know who to use. There is an
Orvis endorsed outfitter that looks pretty good, but there are others
that also look good.

Any recommendations from roffians who have done this float? And, what
is the best time of year?


I've done it several times with several different outfitters and on
private trips. I've never done it with a fishing-oriented outfitter. If
you like I can make some inquiries to find out what outfitters are
highly recommended for fishing.

The best time of the year is right now, but it depends on the amount of
water we have. This year we have plenty. In a low water year the drift
boats are pretty dicey later in the season.

I recommend wade fishing the larger tributaries -- Loon Creek, Camas
Creek, and Big Creek. Loon Creek has an excellent hot spring, and there
are many hot springs along the river.

There was a real mess of a log jam on the Middle Fork last week:

http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005111572

You would not want to have been there then. Aside from stranding 200
people for days, the all the junk in the water must have ruined the
fishing all the way down to the take out.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

rw wrote:

I've done it several times with several different outfitters and on
private trips. I've never done it with a fishing-oriented outfitter. If
you like I can make some inquiries to find out what outfitters are
highly recommended for fishing.

I was just told that the Orvis-endorsed outfitter, Solitude,

http://tinyurl.com/nqz2o

is the only outfitter that uses drift boats. That makes your choice
easier. I see their Orvis-green boats in town a lot.

I recall seeing another outfitter on the river some years ago that used
wood drift boats. He must have busted holes in all of them and given up. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:13:17 -0600, rw
wrote:

I was just told that the Orvis-endorsed outfitter, Solitude,

http://tinyurl.com/nqz2o

is the only outfitter that uses drift boats. That makes your choice
easier. I see their Orvis-green boats in town a lot.

Solitude is the only one I can find that uses drift boats. I'd rather
use the boat instead of the raft because it is far easier to stop and
fish a good spot.

From what I can see, most outfitters stop at the different streams and
hot springs.

Thanks for your help.

Dave

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:

Solitude is the only one I can find that uses drift boats. I'd rather
use the boat instead of the raft because it is far easier to stop and
fish a good spot.

From what I can see, most outfitters stop at the different streams and
hot springs.

Ideally, you should try to camp at Loon Creek and near Camas Creek so
you can fish them in the morning and the evening. There's no camping at
Big Creek.

A problem with the outfitters I've used, who are mainly focused on
whitewater, is that they break camp late in the morning and make camp in
the afternoon, missing the prime fishing times. Solitude may do it
differently.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:13:17 -0600, rw
wrote:


I was just told that the Orvis-endorsed outfitter, Solitude,

http://tinyurl.com/nqz2o

is the only outfitter that uses drift boats. That makes your choice
easier. I see their Orvis-green boats in town a lot.


Solitude is the only one I can find that uses drift boats. I'd rather
use the boat instead of the raft because it is far easier to stop and
fish a good spot.

Here are two mo

http://www.helfrich.com/helfrichmiddlesalmontrips.htm
http://helfrichriver.com/Salmon_Mid/index.php

I believe that there used to be three Helfrich brothers who had their
own outfitting businesses on the Middle Fork, and that one of them sold
the business to Solitude.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

Jonathan Cook wrote:
rw wrote:

Dave LaCourse wrote:

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:13:17 -0600, rw
wrote:


[bunch of MF dialog]

I have to say that this thread is what ROFF is _really_
all about. Us regulars know that the two involved have
no love lost between them, but when it comes to helping
out on fishing advice, rw steps right in.

Wonderful!

I hope has a great Middle Fork trip, and I'd like him to tell me when
he'll be in Stanley so I can be somewhere else. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

rw wrote:
Jonathan Cook wrote:

rw wrote:

Dave LaCourse wrote:

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:13:17 -0600, rw
wrote:


[bunch of MF dialog]

I have to say that this thread is what ROFF is _really_ all about. Us
regulars know that the two involved have
no love lost between them, but when it comes to helping
out on fishing advice, rw steps right in.
Wonderful!


I hope ...

.... Dave ...

has a great Middle Fork trip, and I'd like him to tell me when
he'll be in Stanley so I can be somewhere else. :-)



--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

Jonathan Cook wrote:
rw wrote:

Dave LaCourse wrote:

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:13:17 -0600, rw
wrote:


[bunch of MF dialog]

I have to say that this thread is what ROFF is _really_
all about. Us regulars know that the two involved have
no love lost between them, but when it comes to helping
out on fishing advice, rw steps right in.

Wonderful!

I should also mention that Dave doesn't need any "fishing advice" from
me. I know he's an excellent fisherman. And the guides for Solitude or
the two Helfrich outfits will know at least as much as I do about the
Middle Fork.

From the boat during the day, while floating, I'd fish large
terrestrials along the bank. I'd expect a lot of caddis in the morning
and the evening. There are some mayfly hatches, but they're sporadic and
sparse in my experience. A stonefly nymph followed by a PT or a GRHE is
a good choice when the fishing is slow on top. Also a big gaudy dry fly
fished in the holes -- Madam X and Turk's Tarantula are local favorites.
Don't pull the trigger too soon when you see the fish come up from ten
feet down.

There are big Bull Trout in the Middle fork, so a streamer might be
productive. Or you could keep a small cutt on the hook for awhile and
get lucky. Just kidding!

Dirty water will put the fish down. The Middle Fork is usually crystal
clear, but there are blowouts if it rains where there have been large
fires in recent years. If the main river is dirty the tributaries will
fish very well. I think the fish move into them to escape the silt.

The nature of the river is that there are long stretches of unproductive
water with few or only small fish. Any decent fish will most probably be
along the banks on these stretches, but it's also worth casting to the
rocks. The deep holes below the rapids and along the rock-face bends
hold most of the good fish.

A good cutt on the Middle Fork is 18".

When the fishing is really on it's possible to have a 100-fish day on
the Middle Fork, but we all know that that is very wrong. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

On 5 Aug 2006 22:34:32 GMT, (Jonathan Cook) wrote:

I have to say that this thread is what ROFF is _really_
all about. Us regulars know that the two involved have
no love lost between them, but when it comes to helping
out on fishing advice, rw steps right in.

And I kinda knew he would. d;o) In fact, I sorta directed the
inquiry his way.

Just got home from my daughter's 25th anniversary party. I spoke to
my grand daughter about the trip and the first thing she asked was,
"Do they have mirrors in the porta potties?" d;o) She's looking
forward to it. I'll book for the first or second week in July.

Dave

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 17:48:47 -0600, rw
wrote:

From the boat during the day, while floating, I'd fish large
terrestrials along the bank. I'd expect a lot of caddis in the morning
and the evening. There are some mayfly hatches, but they're sporadic and
sparse in my experience. A stonefly nymph followed by a PT or a GRHE is
a good choice when the fishing is slow on top. Also a big gaudy dry fly
fished in the holes -- Madam X and Turk's Tarantula are local favorites.
Don't pull the trigger too soon when you see the fish come up from ten
feet down.

Sort of the way it was when my grandson Brian and I fished it four
years ago. While we only fished about a mile upstream and a mile
downstream from the footbridge at the fire ranger landing strip, I
found the river one of the most enchanting I've ever fished. Although
it was a bit on the dirty side, we did have some fun on dries, and
Madam X was one of the patterns the guide suggested. Brian, ever so
much like his grandpa, did very well with nymphs.

Thanks for the info/advice, Steve.

Dave

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

Dave LaCourse wrote:

Madam X was one of the patterns the guide suggested.


The Madam X is a versatile generic terrestrial pattern. It's also an
easy tie. I used to think that the "X" came from the way the rubber legs
were tied in, but now I have another theory.

I think Doug Swisher, the inventor, might have had, in the back of his
mind, the famous John Singer Sargeant painting, Madame X:

http://www.jssgallery.org/Paintings/Madame_X.htm

The painting was shocking at the time -- evocatively, alluringly erotic.
Sargeant was effectively banned from the Paris Salon because of the
controversy.

Sargeant was a masterful painter of oil portraits -- he commanded small
fortunes from high society types. I think he was a great and
underappreciated painter who was frustrated in his artistic career,
largely because of the reaction to Madame X. He did a few watercolor
paintings of moving water that are the best I've ever seen, and they
were only a small diversion for him.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

rw wrote:


The Madam X is a versatile generic terrestrial pattern. It's also an
easy tie. I used to think that the "X" came from the way the rubber legs
were tied in, but now I have another theory.

I think Doug Swisher, the inventor, might have had, in the back of his
mind, the famous John Singer Sargeant painting, Madame X:

http://www.jssgallery.org/Paintings/Madame_X.htm

The painting was shocking at the time -- evocatively, alluringly erotic.
Sargeant was effectively banned from the Paris Salon because of the
controversy.

Sargeant was a masterful painter of oil portraits -- he commanded small
fortunes from high society types. I think he was a great and
underappreciated painter who was frustrated in his artistic career,
largely because of the reaction to Madame X. He did a few watercolor
paintings of moving water that are the best I've ever seen, and they
were only a small diversion for him.


i don't know squat about swisher, or the back of his mind, but if a jss
painting inspired his naming of the fly, i'm impressed. any theory on
how the "humpy" got its name? g

jeff

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 10:44:13 -0400, jeff wrote:

i don't know squat about swisher, or the back of his mind, but if a jss
painting inspired his naming of the fly, i'm impressed. any theory on
how the "humpy" got its name? g

I'm pretty sure Wayno named that one.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 10:44:13 -0400, jeff wrote:

i don't know squat about swisher, or the back of his mind, but if a jss
painting inspired his naming of the fly, i'm impressed. any theory on
how the "humpy" got its name? g

I'm pretty sure Wayno named that one.
--
Charlie...


And I guess the stimulator got it's name from Delacroix's " Jewish Wedding
in Morocco."

Joe

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

"jeff" wrote in message
news:VenBg.2334$W01.903@dukeread08...
rw wrote:


The Madam X is a versatile generic terrestrial pattern. It's also an
easy tie. I used to think that the "X" came from the way the rubber legs
were tied in, but now I have another theory.

I think Doug Swisher, the inventor, might have had, in the back of his
mind, the famous John Singer Sargeant painting, Madame X:

http://www.jssgallery.org/Paintings/Madame_X.htm

The painting was shocking at the time -- evocatively, alluringly erotic.
Sargeant was effectively banned from the Paris Salon because of the
controversy.

Sargeant was a masterful painter of oil portraits -- he commanded small
fortunes from high society types. I think he was a great and
underappreciated painter who was frustrated in his artistic career,
largely because of the reaction to Madame X. He did a few watercolor
paintings of moving water that are the best I've ever seen, and they
were only a small diversion for him.


i don't know squat about swisher, or the back of his mind, but if a jss
painting inspired his naming of the fly, i'm impressed. any theory on
how the "humpy" got its name? g

jeff

The actual name of the mysterious Madame X was Amelie (Virginie) Gautreau.
It was the original version of the painting that "shocked" the 1884 Paris
Salon. The original had the strap (her right) of her gown, down on her arm.
The version we see today was the original, repainted with the strap up. As
Deborah Davis says in her book, "Strapless," Sargent kept the portrait in
his studio for the next 32 years, finally selling it to the Metropolitan a
short time after Gautreau's death. "Today the painting is considered to be
Sargent's masterpiece."

During the first half of the 20th century Sargent was overtaken like many
others by impressionism and modernism. He was considered old fashioned and
irrelevant. By the 1970s he was again gaining interest and now is very
popular. His emotional life was complicated in that he was at least
bisexual and most probably gay, and subject for years to fear of the same
English laws that were used to persecute Oscar W.

I really like his architectural drawings from Italy. He was a master of the
male figure with charcoal, and his brushwork in oil can be as expressive and
economical as that of Rembrant. Although he lived mostly in Europe, he is a
wonderful American realist painter. I believe Scotland has his drawings, but
the Gardner in Boston, and the Met have multiple Sargents and others are
scattered throughout the US.

Dave

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

"jeff" wrote in message
news:VenBg.2334$W01.903@dukeread08...
rw wrote:


The Madam X is a versatile generic terrestrial pattern. It's also an
easy tie. I used to think that the "X" came from the way the rubber
legs
were tied in, but now I have another theory.

I think Doug Swisher, the inventor, might have had, in the back of his
mind, the famous John Singer Sargeant painting, Madame X:

http://www.jssgallery.org/Paintings/Madame_X.htm

The painting was shocking at the time -- evocatively, alluringly
erotic.
Sargeant was effectively banned from the Paris Salon because of the
controversy.

Sargeant was a masterful painter of oil portraits -- he commanded small
fortunes from high society types. I think he was a great and
underappreciated painter who was frustrated in his artistic career,
largely because of the reaction to Madame X. He did a few watercolor
paintings of moving water that are the best I've ever seen, and they
were only a small diversion for him.


i don't know squat about swisher, or the back of his mind, but if a jss
painting inspired his naming of the fly, i'm impressed. any theory on
how the "humpy" got its name? g



I knew Doug Swisher superficially (business), and used to supply him with
his Madam X pattern commercially, and although he never told me the thinking
behind the name (other than the rubber legs forming an "X" when viewed from
above), my guess is that the 1966 Lana Turner movie - Madam X, would be more
in keeping with his tastes and personality.

IMHO, YMMV...

http://imdb.com/title/tt0060645/


Skwala

BTW, I'm sure he still is counted amoung the living, somewhere, and even has
a web site, why don't you google him and ask him

Middle Fork of the Salmon
 

RW--got out my log book and found I was about 80 miles west of Loon creek
when we saw ww 2 airplane crashed in lake. We were over by South Fork
around Loon Lake.
However the clave we attended was on Big Creek which flows into Middle
Salmon. Water was so fast my catching was limited as I had hard time
standing up and we probably only fished half way down to junction with
Salmon.

Have fun in Alaska and know that this old man really envies your group of
rowdees

Joe