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why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
with ANY bait casting reel, and the fact your thumb must ride the spool at all times to (try to) prevent it- why would anyone bother even using a bait casting reel for fresh water fishing ? I can see the cranking advantage to a bait caster, for hauling in huge fish, and dragging lures through weeds, etc.. But in my actual experience, the bait casters can't cast as far, and not as accurately, as a cheap open face spinning reel or even a spincasting reel. When I go fishing, I want to fish, not untangle the reel ever 4th cast. Are the 5-ball bearing bait casters so much better they don't tangle, over a single-ball bearing bait caster ? Common sense tells me no. These bait casters seem at best something to use, to toss bait a few feet from the boat, then troll in the ocean or large lakes for huge fish- NOT for casting with precision and distance. I can cast hundreds of feet with my spinning reel- and hardly 100 feet with a bait caster with a lug nut attached for weight. I'm getting the notion the reel industry is doing a lot of bs-ing to sell bait casters. skeptic bordering on cynic... |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater?
Accuracy and the ability to control the entry of a bait into the water.
Sometime watch, really watch guys on tv casting. Or even better, go to a wintertime fishing show where a big name angler is tossing a jig into a cup 50-80 feet away and never missing. Doing it while not making a lot of noise. Just laying it in there. Baitcasters are far more useful, and accurate than you give them credit for. They take practice. Anything worthwhile does. Carlos |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
Carlos wrote: Accuracy and the ability to control the entry of a bait into the water. Sometime watch, really watch guys on tv casting. Or even better, go to a wintertime fishing show where a big name angler is tossing a jig into a cup 50-80 feet away and never missing. Doing it while not making a lot of noise. Just laying it in there. Baitcasters are far more useful, and accurate than you give them credit for. They take practice. Anything worthwhile does. Carlos let me elaborate: I've been fishing for 37 years now, and to say a baitcaster is more accurate, is very misleading- and downright incorrect. I can put 6 pound test on an open face and cast 200 feet with ease. And I can put 10 pound test on it and haul in huge bass. And I've fished small streams and creeks with open faced spinning reels, that require far more precision than any baitcaster can give- and would leave a baitcasting reel in a birdsnest tangle. The only useful purpose I can see for a baitcaster, is fishing from a boat on large lakes and ocean, where the bait it tossed a few feet from the boat, and then trolled- and the fish are huge over 15 pounds. Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. They don't cast bait for crap ! The fisherman would be better off attaching the heavy lure or bait, and throwing it with his pitching arm where he wants it, then using the reel to retrieve the fish. And I say that only half kidding, because he'd have no backlash tangles then. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
Apparently you haven't used a baitcaster in a LONG time...
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message ups.com... I've been fishing for 37 years now, Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. They don't cast bait for crap ! The fisherman would be better off attaching the heavy lure or bait, and throwing it with his pitching arm where he wants it, then using the reel to retrieve the fish. And I say that only half kidding, because he'd have no backlash tangles then. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
"Charles B. Summers" wrote in message
. .. Apparently you haven't used a baitcaster in a LONG time... "duty-honor-country" wrote in message ups.com... I've been fishing for 37 years now, Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. They don't cast bait for crap ! The fisherman would be better off attaching the heavy lure or bait, and throwing it with his pitching arm where he wants it, then using the reel to retrieve the fish. And I say that only half kidding, because he'd have no backlash tangles then. I'm a long time spinning reel advocate. In fact I think if a person were restricted to one rod for all kinds of fishing I'ld have to go with the with a medium power fast action spinning rod, but don't soft sell the baitcasters of today. With internal breaking controls, spool tension adjustment and high quality bearings a highly skilled angler can cast pretty far with incredible accuracy. In fact to such a point that they will malign the accuracy of spinning tackle. Those of us who grew up casting light lures while skulking through brush choked banks to get to our fishing holes know that you can just as accurately with spinning tackle, Where a baitcaster really shines though is in short and medium range accuracy. The thumb on the spool allows an angler a great deal of speed and distance control when pitching. I'm not talking about fdropping it over the side of the boat, but pitching to targets from 20 to maybe a 80 feet away from the boat. With a little practice you can even control travel to make a bait go around a target like to drop behind a stump. On the flip side, if you are comparing a Daiwa Tournament 1600 spinning reel to a Penn Jig master you are looking at the wrong thing. I actually can pitch with a Penn Jig Master, but with only a spool tension control it is not. Try comparing instead to a properly adjust Quantum Accurist, Browning Citori, or Shimano Curado. And don't get all on about cheap spinning reels either. I have probably owned more than 100 of them over the years, and a cheap spinning reel has just as many problems as a cheap any other kind of reel. They aren't the same problems, but they are problems just the same. Quality products usually start at a little more money. Cheap spinning reels simple don't hold up as well as more expensive ones. I happen to really like the Daiwa 1600 Tournament reels, and the Shimano Symetre is in about the same class. The cheaper Mitchel 300X and 308X fishes very well, but it has a handle design problem that causes it to loosen up if not checked constantly. To be fair, the one cheap baitcaster I bought didn't hold up any better. Anyway, to say baitcasters are junk or can't cast is an gross overstatement. To say spinning reels are easier to use with less experience is probably more accurate. To say one or the other is more accurate is just plain silly. I do believe that at short and medium range a skilled angler can use a bait caster with slightly better accuracy, but a spinning reel in the hands of a skilled angler would not be far behind. To say one can cast further than the other isn't necessarily true either. I fished once with a guy named Simon Apodaka who was able to casta 3/4 oz rattle trap on his baitcasting tackle further than I could cast a 3/4 Kastmaster spoon. The fact that Simon is a custom rod builder who has a special purpose rod for every lure in his bag might have had some bearing on the end results, but the fact is that both of our baits traveled so far that we could only see them from the sun glinting off the shiny sides. I have to admit that with very light baits like small spinners, tiny spoons, and some weightless worms a spinning rod seems to cast slightly further. I also think that fishing in windy conditions a spinning rig will cast slightly better into the wind with most baits, but there are guys who can do it well with baitcasters. Hammer (Kwame Kuanda) and I fished a November tournament where we were slinging spinner baits into the teeth of a 25-35 mph blow. He was casting a 1/2 oz bait and I was throwing a 3/8 oz SWL spinner bait. Yes he had to pick out a backlash or two, but I had to deal with more looping line sailing up and away from the rod and reel before I could make contact with the bait on the retrieve. Was one better than the other? I don't think so. I caught the bigger fish, and a few more of them, but we both caught good fish and we took second that day. The amazing thing though was that he was consistantly casting about 25 to 30 feet further than I was. That's about the same as if we were casting the different size baits on identical tackle. No I doubt I could do that with baitcasting tackle. I certainly couldn't back then, but it demonstrates the point that baitcasting tackle can get very close to the same distance casting in adverse conditions in the hands of a skilled angler. Just like spinning tackle can be quite accurate in the hands of somebody who knows how to use it. -- Bob La Londe Fishing Arizona & The Colorado River Fishing Forums & Contests http://www.YumaBassMan.com -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
Bob La Londe wrote: "Charles B. Summers" wrote in message . .. Apparently you haven't used a baitcaster in a LONG time... "duty-honor-country" wrote in message ups.com... I've been fishing for 37 years now, Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. They don't cast bait for crap ! The fisherman would be better off attaching the heavy lure or bait, and throwing it with his pitching arm where he wants it, then using the reel to retrieve the fish. And I say that only half kidding, because he'd have no backlash tangles then. I'm a long time spinning reel advocate. In fact I think if a person were restricted to one rod for all kinds of fishing I'ld have to go with the with a medium power fast action spinning rod, but don't soft sell the baitcasters of today. With internal breaking controls, spool tension adjustment and high quality bearings a highly skilled angler can cast pretty far with incredible accuracy. In fact to such a point that they will malign the accuracy of spinning tackle. Those of us who grew up casting light lures while skulking through brush choked banks to get to our fishing holes know that you can just as accurately with spinning tackle, Where a baitcaster really shines though is in short and medium range accuracy. The thumb on the spool allows an angler a great deal of speed and distance control when pitching. I'm not talking about fdropping it over the side of the boat, but pitching to targets from 20 to maybe a 80 feet away from the boat. With a little practice you can even control travel to make a bait go around a target like to drop behind a stump. On the flip side, if you are comparing a Daiwa Tournament 1600 spinning reel to a Penn Jig master you are looking at the wrong thing. I actually can pitch with a Penn Jig Master, but with only a spool tension control it is not. Try comparing instead to a properly adjust Quantum Accurist, Browning Citori, or Shimano Curado. And don't get all on about cheap spinning reels either. I have probably owned more than 100 of them over the years, and a cheap spinning reel has just as many problems as a cheap any other kind of reel. They aren't the same problems, but they are problems just the same. Quality products usually start at a little more money. Cheap spinning reels simple don't hold up as well as more expensive ones. I happen to really like the Daiwa 1600 Tournament reels, and the Shimano Symetre is in about the same class. The cheaper Mitchel 300X and 308X fishes very well, but it has a handle design problem that causes it to loosen up if not checked constantly. To be fair, the one cheap baitcaster I bought didn't hold up any better. Anyway, to say baitcasters are junk or can't cast is an gross overstatement. To say spinning reels are easier to use with less experience is probably more accurate. To say one or the other is more accurate is just plain silly. I do believe that at short and medium range a skilled angler can use a bait caster with slightly better accuracy, but a spinning reel in the hands of a skilled angler would not be far behind. To say one can cast further than the other isn't necessarily true either. I fished once with a guy named Simon Apodaka who was able to casta 3/4 oz rattle trap on his baitcasting tackle further than I could cast a 3/4 Kastmaster spoon. The fact that Simon is a custom rod builder who has a special purpose rod for every lure in his bag might have had some bearing on the end results, but the fact is that both of our baits traveled so far that we could only see them from the sun glinting off the shiny sides. I have to admit that with very light baits like small spinners, tiny spoons, and some weightless worms a spinning rod seems to cast slightly further. I also think that fishing in windy conditions a spinning rig will cast slightly better into the wind with most baits, but there are guys who can do it well with baitcasters. Hammer (Kwame Kuanda) and I fished a November tournament where we were slinging spinner baits into the teeth of a 25-35 mph blow. He was casting a 1/2 oz bait and I was throwing a 3/8 oz SWL spinner bait. Yes he had to pick out a backlash or two, but I had to deal with more looping line sailing up and away from the rod and reel before I could make contact with the bait on the retrieve. Was one better than the other? I don't think so. I caught the bigger fish, and a few more of them, but we both caught good fish and we took second that day. The amazing thing though was that he was consistantly casting about 25 to 30 feet further than I was. That's about the same as if we were casting the different size baits on identical tackle. No I doubt I could do that with baitcasting tackle. I certainly couldn't back then, but it demonstrates the point that baitcasting tackle can get very close to the same distance casting in adverse conditions in the hands of a skilled angler. Just like spinning tackle can be quite accurate in the hands of somebody who knows how to use it. -- Bob La Londe Fishing Arizona & The Colorado River Fishing Forums & Contests http://www.YumaBassMan.com -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com You'll never have a backlash problem with a spinning reel. You may pull a few tangles out on a newly filled reel, but that will be it. You will have much more tangles with a baitcaster than a spinning rod. And all of a sudden, the "farther" argument for casting with baitcasters has disappeared. I've used a lot of reels in my lifetime too. Skilled angler doesn't equate to skilled baitcaster. Unless you're hauling up 15 lb. fish every time, baitcasters are an exercise in futility. It's akin to using a Sherman tank to go plinking cans- and having to maintain the tank to do it. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
Bob La Londe wrote: "Charles B. Summers" wrote in message . .. Apparently you haven't used a baitcaster in a LONG time... "duty-honor-country" wrote in message ups.com... I've been fishing for 37 years now, Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. They don't cast bait for crap ! The fisherman would be better off attaching the heavy lure or bait, and throwing it with his pitching arm where he wants it, then using the reel to retrieve the fish. And I say that only half kidding, because he'd have no backlash tangles then. I'm a long time spinning reel advocate. In fact I think if a person were restricted to one rod for all kinds of fishing I'ld have to go with the with a medium power fast action spinning rod, but don't soft sell the baitcasters of today. With internal breaking controls, spool tension adjustment and high quality bearings a highly skilled angler can cast pretty far with incredible accuracy. In fact to such a point that they will malign the accuracy of spinning tackle. Those of us who grew up casting light lures while skulking through brush choked banks to get to our fishing holes know that you can just as accurately with spinning tackle, Where a baitcaster really shines though is in short and medium range accuracy. The thumb on the spool allows an angler a great deal of speed and distance control when pitching. I'm not talking about fdropping it over the side of the boat, but pitching to targets from 20 to maybe a 80 feet away from the boat. With a little practice you can even control travel to make a bait go around a target like to drop behind a stump. On the flip side, if you are comparing a Daiwa Tournament 1600 spinning reel to a Penn Jig master you are looking at the wrong thing. I actually can pitch with a Penn Jig Master, but with only a spool tension control it is not. Try comparing instead to a properly adjust Quantum Accurist, Browning Citori, or Shimano Curado. And don't get all on about cheap spinning reels either. I have probably owned more than 100 of them over the years, and a cheap spinning reel has just as many problems as a cheap any other kind of reel. They aren't the same problems, but they are problems just the same. Quality products usually start at a little more money. Cheap spinning reels simple don't hold up as well as more expensive ones. I happen to really like the Daiwa 1600 Tournament reels, and the Shimano Symetre is in about the same class. The cheaper Mitchel 300X and 308X fishes very well, but it has a handle design problem that causes it to loosen up if not checked constantly. To be fair, the one cheap baitcaster I bought didn't hold up any better. Anyway, to say baitcasters are junk or can't cast is an gross overstatement. To say spinning reels are easier to use with less experience is probably more accurate. To say one or the other is more accurate is just plain silly. I do believe that at short and medium range a skilled angler can use a bait caster with slightly better accuracy, but a spinning reel in the hands of a skilled angler would not be far behind. To say one can cast further than the other isn't necessarily true either. I fished once with a guy named Simon Apodaka who was able to casta 3/4 oz rattle trap on his baitcasting tackle further than I could cast a 3/4 Kastmaster spoon. The fact that Simon is a custom rod builder who has a special purpose rod for every lure in his bag might have had some bearing on the end results, but the fact is that both of our baits traveled so far that we could only see them from the sun glinting off the shiny sides. I have to admit that with very light baits like small spinners, tiny spoons, and some weightless worms a spinning rod seems to cast slightly further. I also think that fishing in windy conditions a spinning rig will cast slightly better into the wind with most baits, but there are guys who can do it well with baitcasters. Hammer (Kwame Kuanda) and I fished a November tournament where we were slinging spinner baits into the teeth of a 25-35 mph blow. He was casting a 1/2 oz bait and I was throwing a 3/8 oz SWL spinner bait. Yes he had to pick out a backlash or two, but I had to deal with more looping line sailing up and away from the rod and reel before I could make contact with the bait on the retrieve. Was one better than the other? I don't think so. I caught the bigger fish, and a few more of them, but we both caught good fish and we took second that day. The amazing thing though was that he was consistantly casting about 25 to 30 feet further than I was. That's about the same as if we were casting the different size baits on identical tackle. No I doubt I could do that with baitcasting tackle. I certainly couldn't back then, but it demonstrates the point that baitcasting tackle can get very close to the same distance casting in adverse conditions in the hands of a skilled angler. Just like spinning tackle can be quite accurate in the hands of somebody who knows how to use it. -- Bob La Londe Fishing Arizona & The Colorado River Fishing Forums & Contests http://www.YumaBassMan.com -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ps- my spinning reel is a Shimano 4000 that handles up to 12 lb. line. I see absolutely no advantage to a baitcaster using 12 pound line in comparison, and a lot of aggravation from backlash tangles with the latter. There would have to be a pressing need for hauling in 15+ lb. fish on a regular basis, to make a baitcaster worthwhile, such as an entry level baitcaster that handles 20 pound line. Where's the advantage to a reel, that you have to monitor with thumb pressure to prevent backlashes- to catch sub-12 lb. fish ? The spinning rod/reel combo I have now handles 3/4 oz. lures without problem. One can buy about 5 entry-level spinning reels for the price of one good baitcaster. Suffice to say, those 5 reels would last a long, long time overall. I have had cheap spinning reels fall apart eventually- from heavy use, dirt, falling in the water, lack of oiling- but it took 20 years of such abuse to destroy them. And all the while, they casted further and easier, with less tangles, than a baitcaster would. There simply is not a lot of places to fish, where you catch 5 bass all over 10 pounds in one day. That's the exception, not the rule. That's TV tourney fishing- not everyday real world. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com... Carlos wrote: Accuracy and the ability to control the entry of a bait into the water. Sometime watch, really watch guys on tv casting. Or even better, go to a wintertime fishing show where a big name angler is tossing a jig into a cup 50-80 feet away and never missing. Doing it while not making a lot of noise. Just laying it in there. Baitcasters are far more useful, and accurate than you give them credit for. They take practice. Anything worthwhile does. I've been fishing for 37 years now, and to say a baitcaster is more accurate, is very misleading- and downright incorrect. I can put 6 pound test on an open face and cast 200 feet with ease. And I can put 10 pound test on it and haul in huge bass. And I've fished small streams and creeks with open faced spinning reels, that require far more precision than any baitcaster can give- and would leave a baitcasting reel in a birdsnest tangle. Caros mentioned that baitcasters were more _accurate", not that they could throw a lure further as you keep mentioning. Spinning reels _are_ good for distance and for using light lures. But baitcaster win hands down for accuracy. There are very few times (really none) that anyone should want to throw a lure 100-200 feet (by the way, the over-hand throw on a 200 foot cast has _got_ to be scary!) You mentioned backlashes on a baitcaster and that you've been fishing for 37 years. If you're getting backlashes then you've not fished long enough with a baitcast to appreciate how well it does. I've been fishing, steady, for about 10 years and use baitcasters 80% of the time. Out of the past thousands of casts I'd say I've only had backlash once... and it only took 5 seconds to clear. The only way to control the line on a spinning reel is to apply slight pressure against the line with your finger once each time the line wraps around the spool. As you mentioned, on a baitcaster you just need to drag your thumb across the spool as the line is going out. From your posts it really seems like you are no open to accept the fact that baitcasters _are_ more accurate then spinning reels. If they were not, why do all professional bass fisherman use them 80%-90% of the time? I guess they _all_ could be wrong about the subject. Something you don't mention is what _kind_ of bass fishing you do. If you just need to throw a shiner out into the middle of the lake, then a spinning reel would work best for your needs. But if you want to throw that plastic worm or spinning lure right into that 6"x6" hole of lily pads four or five times, then you might want to consider practicing with a baitcaster. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
On 7 Aug 2006 07:36:31 -0700, "duty-honor-country"
wrote: Snip ps- my spinning reel is a Shimano 4000 that handles up to 12 lb. line. I see absolutely no advantage to a baitcaster using 12 pound line in comparison, and a lot of aggravation from backlash tangles with the latter. There would have to be a pressing need for hauling in 15+ lb. fish on a regular basis, to make a baitcaster worthwhile, such as an entry level baitcaster that handles 20 pound line. Where's the advantage to a reel, that you have to monitor with thumb pressure to prevent backlashes- to catch sub-12 lb. fish ? The spinning rod/reel combo I have now handles 3/4 oz. lures without problem. One can buy about 5 entry-level spinning reels for the price of one good baitcaster. Suffice to say, those 5 reels would last a long, long time overall. I have had cheap spinning reels fall apart eventually- from heavy use, dirt, falling in the water, lack of oiling- but it took 20 years of such abuse to destroy them. And all the while, they casted further and easier, with less tangles, than a baitcaster would. There simply is not a lot of places to fish, where you catch 5 bass all over 10 pounds in one day. That's the exception, not the rule. That's TV tourney fishing- not everyday real world. Two things come to mind after reading your posts. One, someone embarressed the living daylites out of you because of your inability to master a modern baitcaster in two days time. This could be caused by several things. You might be unable to afford the $125 to 200 for a quality baitcaster. You might be unable to ask someone for instruction in the proper use of a baitcaster. You might be physically unable to control a baitcaster. Oh the list could go on and on. Two, from your rantings I would place you in the troll catigory...The real poor skills, semi-intelegent dweeb type troll. I do not have to put forth anything more than your rantings to prove this point, you have done all the work for me. Now, if you really want to know how to use a baitcaster properly, take your attitude and shove it. Come back in a week or so and apologize for your uncalled for behaviour and ask for advice on how to use the specific brand baitcaster you failed to master. I am sure someone here will be willing to help you out. If not, it's your loss not mine. PLONKED the troll! |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater?
Dan, danl, Redbeard uh Greybeard now wrote:
"duty-honor-country" wrote: Snip ps- my spinning reel is a Shimano 4000 that handles up to 12 lb. line. I see absolutely no advantage to a baitcaster using 12 pound line in comparison, and a lot of aggravation from backlash tangles with the latter. ... snip Two, from your rantings I would place you in the troll catigory...The real poor skills, semi-intelegent dweeb type troll. I do not have to put forth anything more than your rantings to prove this point, you have done all the work for me. ... Damn man, that's harsh. Mr. d-h-c sounds to me like an opinionated old cuss looking for an argument. Kinda like a lot of fishermen I know. Usenet isn't very conducive to the kind of arguments that would seem perfectly OK when seated next to someone at the bar quaffing a brew. I'm willing to give Mr. d-h-c the benefit of the doubt and if I disagreed with him I'd argue it with him with a good nature and my tongue in cheek. But I tried to cast with my Dad's old Ambasseuder 5000 and never could get the hang of the damn thing, so I basically agree with Mr. d-h-c. 1/2 :-) -- Ken Fortenberry |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
m... Dan, danl, Redbeard uh Greybeard now wrote: "duty-honor-country" wrote: Snip ps- my spinning reel is a Shimano 4000 that handles up to 12 lb. line. I see absolutely no advantage to a baitcaster using 12 pound line in comparison, and a lot of aggravation from backlash tangles with the latter. ... snip Two, from your rantings I would place you in the troll catigory...The real poor skills, semi-intelegent dweeb type troll. I do not have to put forth anything more than your rantings to prove this point, you have done all the work for me. ... Damn man, that's harsh. Mr. d-h-c sounds to me like an opinionated old cuss looking for an argument. Kinda like a lot of fishermen I know. Usenet isn't very conducive to the kind of arguments that would seem perfectly OK when seated next to someone at the bar quaffing a brew. I'm willing to give Mr. d-h-c the benefit of the doubt and if I disagreed with him I'd argue it with him with a good nature and my tongue in cheek. But I tried to cast with my Dad's old Ambasseuder 5000 and never could get the hang of the damn thing, so I basically agree with Mr. d-h-c. 1/2 :-) Never had a 5000, but we had a bunch of 5000D models for catfishing and they were great. They could crank a catfish out of hole like a Warn winch pulling a Volkswagon out of a ditch. We could also cast them pretty accurately for distance when we took the time to adjust them for the weight of the lure used. I bet I could even pitch with one, but I'm not sure why I would want to. The size is the big hold up on that reel. Give me a low profile baitcasting reel anyday of the week for that. For the overhand guys... you can snap cast with a spinning rig too. You are not limited to big overhand casts. I side armed and did a variation of a circle cast with a spinning rod that I taught myself as a kid. It was the only way to get that precise placement I needed to drop spinners and spoons along weed edges when I was walking the Gila River. -- Bob La Londe www.YumaBassMan.com -- Ken Fortenberry |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
On 7 Aug 2006 07:18:16 -0700, duty-honor-country wrote:
You'll never have a backlash problem with a spinning reel. You may pull a few tangles out on a newly filled reel, but that will be it. You will have much more tangles with a baitcaster than a spinning rod. And all of a sudden, the "farther" argument for casting with baitcasters has disappeared. I've used a lot of reels in my lifetime too. Skilled angler doesn't equate to skilled baitcaster. Unless you're hauling up 15 lb. fish every time, baitcasters are an exercise in futility. It's akin to using a Sherman tank to go plinking cans- and having to maintain the tank to do it. Why do you care what people use? If they enjoy using a baitcaster then more power to them. -- -Gary |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
Thanks for the laugh champ!
WW "duty-honor-country" wrote in message ups.com... question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes with ANY bait casting reel, and the fact your thumb must ride the spool at all times to (try to) prevent it- why would anyone bother even using a bait casting reel for fresh water fishing ? I can see the cranking advantage to a bait caster, for hauling in huge fish, and dragging lures through weeds, etc.. But in my actual experience, the bait casters can't cast as far, and not as accurately, as a cheap open face spinning reel or even a spincasting reel. When I go fishing, I want to fish, not untangle the reel ever 4th cast. Are the 5-ball bearing bait casters so much better they don't tangle, over a single-ball bearing bait caster ? Common sense tells me no. These bait casters seem at best something to use, to toss bait a few feet from the boat, then troll in the ocean or large lakes for huge fish- NOT for casting with precision and distance. I can cast hundreds of feet with my spinning reel- and hardly 100 feet with a bait caster with a lug nut attached for weight. I'm getting the notion the reel industry is doing a lot of bs-ing to sell bait casters. skeptic bordering on cynic... |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
Amazing you had time to haul in 12 fish, considering all the backlashes &
tangles you picked out. I think I had a backlash, o maybe 1500 casts or so ago... Warren "duty-honor-country" wrote in message oups.com... Bob La Londe wrote: "Charles B. Summers" wrote in message . .. Apparently you haven't used a baitcaster in a LONG time... "duty-honor-country" wrote in message ups.com... I've been fishing for 37 years now, Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. They don't cast bait for crap ! The fisherman would be better off attaching the heavy lure or bait, and throwing it with his pitching arm where he wants it, then using the reel to retrieve the fish. And I say that only half kidding, because he'd have no backlash tangles then. I'm a long time spinning reel advocate. In fact I think if a person were restricted to one rod for all kinds of fishing I'ld have to go with the with a medium power fast action spinning rod, but don't soft sell the baitcasters of today. With internal breaking controls, spool tension adjustment and high quality bearings a highly skilled angler can cast pretty far with incredible accuracy. In fact to such a point that they will malign the accuracy of spinning tackle. Those of us who grew up casting light lures while skulking through brush choked banks to get to our fishing holes know that you can just as accurately with spinning tackle, Where a baitcaster really shines though is in short and medium range accuracy. The thumb on the spool allows an angler a great deal of speed and distance control when pitching. I'm not talking about fdropping it over the side of the boat, but pitching to targets from 20 to maybe a 80 feet away from the boat. With a little practice you can even control travel to make a bait go around a target like to drop behind a stump. On the flip side, if you are comparing a Daiwa Tournament 1600 spinning reel to a Penn Jig master you are looking at the wrong thing. I actually can pitch with a Penn Jig Master, but with only a spool tension control it is not. Try comparing instead to a properly adjust Quantum Accurist, Browning Citori, or Shimano Curado. And don't get all on about cheap spinning reels either. I have probably owned more than 100 of them over the years, and a cheap spinning reel has just as many problems as a cheap any other kind of reel. They aren't the same problems, but they are problems just the same. Quality products usually start at a little more money. Cheap spinning reels simple don't hold up as well as more expensive ones. I happen to really like the Daiwa 1600 Tournament reels, and the Shimano Symetre is in about the same class. The cheaper Mitchel 300X and 308X fishes very well, but it has a handle design problem that causes it to loosen up if not checked constantly. To be fair, the one cheap baitcaster I bought didn't hold up any better. Anyway, to say baitcasters are junk or can't cast is an gross overstatement. To say spinning reels are easier to use with less experience is probably more accurate. To say one or the other is more accurate is just plain silly. I do believe that at short and medium range a skilled angler can use a bait caster with slightly better accuracy, but a spinning reel in the hands of a skilled angler would not be far behind. To say one can cast further than the other isn't necessarily true either. I fished once with a guy named Simon Apodaka who was able to casta 3/4 oz rattle trap on his baitcasting tackle further than I could cast a 3/4 Kastmaster spoon. The fact that Simon is a custom rod builder who has a special purpose rod for every lure in his bag might have had some bearing on the end results, but the fact is that both of our baits traveled so far that we could only see them from the sun glinting off the shiny sides. I have to admit that with very light baits like small spinners, tiny spoons, and some weightless worms a spinning rod seems to cast slightly further. I also think that fishing in windy conditions a spinning rig will cast slightly better into the wind with most baits, but there are guys who can do it well with baitcasters. Hammer (Kwame Kuanda) and I fished a November tournament where we were slinging spinner baits into the teeth of a 25-35 mph blow. He was casting a 1/2 oz bait and I was throwing a 3/8 oz SWL spinner bait. Yes he had to pick out a backlash or two, but I had to deal with more looping line sailing up and away from the rod and reel before I could make contact with the bait on the retrieve. Was one better than the other? I don't think so. I caught the bigger fish, and a few more of them, but we both caught good fish and we took second that day. The amazing thing though was that he was consistantly casting about 25 to 30 feet further than I was. That's about the same as if we were casting the different size baits on identical tackle. No I doubt I could do that with baitcasting tackle. I certainly couldn't back then, but it demonstrates the point that baitcasting tackle can get very close to the same distance casting in adverse conditions in the hands of a skilled angler. Just like spinning tackle can be quite accurate in the hands of somebody who knows how to use it. -- Bob La Londe Fishing Arizona & The Colorado River Fishing Forums & Contests http://www.YumaBassMan.com -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com You'll never have a backlash problem with a spinning reel. You may pull a few tangles out on a newly filled reel, but that will be it. You will have much more tangles with a baitcaster than a spinning rod. And all of a sudden, the "farther" argument for casting with baitcasters has disappeared. I've used a lot of reels in my lifetime too. Skilled angler doesn't equate to skilled baitcaster. Unless you're hauling up 15 lb. fish every time, baitcasters are an exercise in futility. It's akin to using a Sherman tank to go plinking cans- and having to maintain the tank to do it. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
"Dan, danl, Redbeard uh Greybeard now" wrote in message
... Two, from your rantings I would place you in the troll catigory... I stopped just shy of calling this guy a troll.... but that doesn't mean that I don't agree with you. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
He sounds like a shiner guy to me, and he needs a new yardstick too.
Hundreds of feet, lmao... Warren "Todd Copeland" wrote in message k.net... "duty-honor-country" wrote in message ups.com... Carlos wrote: Accuracy and the ability to control the entry of a bait into the water. Sometime watch, really watch guys on tv casting. Or even better, go to a wintertime fishing show where a big name angler is tossing a jig into a cup 50-80 feet away and never missing. Doing it while not making a lot of noise. Just laying it in there. Baitcasters are far more useful, and accurate than you give them credit for. They take practice. Anything worthwhile does. I've been fishing for 37 years now, and to say a baitcaster is more accurate, is very misleading- and downright incorrect. I can put 6 pound test on an open face and cast 200 feet with ease. And I can put 10 pound test on it and haul in huge bass. And I've fished small streams and creeks with open faced spinning reels, that require far more precision than any baitcaster can give- and would leave a baitcasting reel in a birdsnest tangle. Caros mentioned that baitcasters were more _accurate", not that they could throw a lure further as you keep mentioning. Spinning reels _are_ good for distance and for using light lures. But baitcaster win hands down for accuracy. There are very few times (really none) that anyone should want to throw a lure 100-200 feet (by the way, the over-hand throw on a 200 foot cast has _got_ to be scary!) You mentioned backlashes on a baitcaster and that you've been fishing for 37 years. If you're getting backlashes then you've not fished long enough with a baitcast to appreciate how well it does. I've been fishing, steady, for about 10 years and use baitcasters 80% of the time. Out of the past thousands of casts I'd say I've only had backlash once... and it only took 5 seconds to clear. The only way to control the line on a spinning reel is to apply slight pressure against the line with your finger once each time the line wraps around the spool. As you mentioned, on a baitcaster you just need to drag your thumb across the spool as the line is going out. From your posts it really seems like you are no open to accept the fact that baitcasters _are_ more accurate then spinning reels. If they were not, why do all professional bass fisherman use them 80%-90% of the time? I guess they _all_ could be wrong about the subject. Something you don't mention is what _kind_ of bass fishing you do. If you just need to throw a shiner out into the middle of the lake, then a spinning reel would work best for your needs. But if you want to throw that plastic worm or spinning lure right into that 6"x6" hole of lily pads four or five times, then you might want to consider practicing with a baitcaster. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater?
Bob La Londe wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote: ... But I tried to cast with my Dad's old Ambasseuder 5000 and never could get the hang of the damn thing, so I basically agree with Mr. d-h-c. 1/2 :-) Never had a 5000, but we had a bunch of 5000D models for catfishing and they were great. They could crank a catfish out of hole like a Warn winch pulling a Volkswagon out of a ditch. ... Funny, I compare it to a winch too but in a disparaging way. I just don't see the challenge in catching a 10 pound fish on 20 lb. test. Hell, you watch some of the stuff on the TV and those guys may as well just push a button. Fish on, zip, fish in the boat. Phooey on that. A challenge is catching a 15 pound fish on 4X 6.4 lb. test. And I'm not talkin' about using 4X just to make a game of it, I'm talking about fishing for Michigan steelhead using a size 14 black stonefly nymph where that's the biggest fly that will work and 4X is the thickest piece of nylon that will fit through the eye of the hook. Now *that's* a challenge, and a workout for the drag on your fly reel, and a test of your skill in applying just the right amount of pressure with the fly rod. -- Ken Fortenberry - not trolling ... well, not too much ;-) |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
WARREN WOLK wrote: Amazing you had time to haul in 12 fish, considering all the backlashes & tangles you picked out. I fished for 9 hours over those 2 days. Spent 6 hours in the boat yesterday. Not only did I untangle the reel a zillion times- I'm now on my 3rd respool of line. It does get better as line size increases- things are noticeably better now with 15 lb. test on it. Previous 10 & 12 lb test was a nightmare of sorts. I think I had a backlash, o maybe 1500 casts or so ago... Warren sure you did.... |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
Ken Fortenberry wrote: Dan, danl, Redbeard uh Greybeard now wrote: "duty-honor-country" wrote: Snip ps- my spinning reel is a Shimano 4000 that handles up to 12 lb. line. I see absolutely no advantage to a baitcaster using 12 pound line in comparison, and a lot of aggravation from backlash tangles with the latter. ... snip Two, from your rantings I would place you in the troll catigory...The real poor skills, semi-intelegent dweeb type troll. I do not have to put forth anything more than your rantings to prove this point, you have done all the work for me. ... Damn man, that's harsh. Mr. d-h-c sounds to me like an opinionated old cuss looking for an argument. Kinda like a lot of fishermen I know. Usenet isn't very conducive to the kind of arguments that would seem perfectly OK when seated next to someone at the bar quaffing a brew. I'm willing to give Mr. d-h-c the benefit of the doubt and if I disagreed with him I'd argue it with him with a good nature and my tongue in cheek. But I tried to cast with my Dad's old Ambasseuder 5000 and never could get the hang of the damn thing, so I basically agree with Mr. d-h-c. 1/2 :-) -- Ken Fortenberry thanks !! not opinionated, just scratching my head and wondering "where's the beef" with this contraption. FWIW, I could buy the best rod and reel made on the planet today- and it would be like pocket change to me. But I have a funny feeling it would give only slightly better results. These baitcasters obviously need very heavy lures and line to make them cast with minimal hassle. I just don't see the advantage in a lake where the biggest fish is a 6 or 8 pound bass. My spinning reel will take that no problem. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
Bob La Londe wrote: "Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message m... Dan, danl, Redbeard uh Greybeard now wrote: "duty-honor-country" wrote: Snip ps- my spinning reel is a Shimano 4000 that handles up to 12 lb. line. I see absolutely no advantage to a baitcaster using 12 pound line in comparison, and a lot of aggravation from backlash tangles with the latter. ... snip Two, from your rantings I would place you in the troll catigory...The real poor skills, semi-intelegent dweeb type troll. I do not have to put forth anything more than your rantings to prove this point, you have done all the work for me. ... Damn man, that's harsh. Mr. d-h-c sounds to me like an opinionated old cuss looking for an argument. Kinda like a lot of fishermen I know. Usenet isn't very conducive to the kind of arguments that would seem perfectly OK when seated next to someone at the bar quaffing a brew. I'm willing to give Mr. d-h-c the benefit of the doubt and if I disagreed with him I'd argue it with him with a good nature and my tongue in cheek. But I tried to cast with my Dad's old Ambasseuder 5000 and never could get the hang of the damn thing, so I basically agree with Mr. d-h-c. 1/2 :-) Never had a 5000, but we had a bunch of 5000D models for catfishing and they were great. They could crank a catfish out of hole like a Warn winch pulling a Volkswagon out of a ditch. We could also cast them pretty accurately for distance when we took the time to adjust them for the weight of the lure used. I bet I could even pitch with one, but I'm not sure why I would want to. The size is the big hold up on that reel. Give me a low profile baitcasting reel anyday of the week for that. For the overhand guys... you can snap cast with a spinning rig too. You are not limited to big overhand casts. I side armed and did a variation of a circle cast with a spinning rod that I taught myself as a kid. It was the only way to get that precise placement I needed to drop spinners and spoons along weed edges when I was walking the Gila River. -- Bob La Londe www.YumaBassMan.com -- Ken Fortenberry exactly !! Fish a small stream in the thick woods and brush- you can forget overhead casting- it's all sidearm, and pulling loose line out to toss. good post |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
Todd Copeland wrote: "duty-honor-country" wrote in message ups.com... Carlos wrote: Accuracy and the ability to control the entry of a bait into the water. Sometime watch, really watch guys on tv casting. Or even better, go to a wintertime fishing show where a big name angler is tossing a jig into a cup 50-80 feet away and never missing. Doing it while not making a lot of noise. Just laying it in there. Baitcasters are far more useful, and accurate than you give them credit for. They take practice. Anything worthwhile does. I've been fishing for 37 years now, and to say a baitcaster is more accurate, is very misleading- and downright incorrect. I can put 6 pound test on an open face and cast 200 feet with ease. And I can put 10 pound test on it and haul in huge bass. And I've fished small streams and creeks with open faced spinning reels, that require far more precision than any baitcaster can give- and would leave a baitcasting reel in a birdsnest tangle. Caros mentioned that baitcasters were more _accurate", not that they could throw a lure further as you keep mentioning. Spinning reels _are_ good for distance and for using light lures. But baitcaster win hands down for accuracy. There are very few times (really none) that anyone should want to throw a lure 100-200 feet (by the way, the over-hand throw on a 200 foot cast has _got_ to be scary!) You mentioned backlashes on a baitcaster and that you've been fishing for 37 years. If you're getting backlashes then you've not fished long enough with a baitcast to appreciate how well it does. I've been fishing, steady, for about 10 years and use baitcasters 80% of the time. Out of the past thousands of casts I'd say I've only had backlash once... and it only took 5 seconds to clear. The only way to control the line on a spinning reel is to apply slight pressure against the line with your finger once each time the line wraps around the spool. As you mentioned, on a baitcaster you just need to drag your thumb across the spool as the line is going out. From your posts it really seems like you are no open to accept the fact that baitcasters _are_ more accurate then spinning reels. If they were not, why do all professional bass fisherman use them 80%-90% of the time? I guess they _all_ could be wrong about the subject. Something you don't mention is what _kind_ of bass fishing you do. If you just need to throw a shiner out into the middle of the lake, then a spinning reel would work best for your needs. But if you want to throw that plastic worm or spinning lure right into that 6"x6" hole of lily pads four or five times, then you might want to consider practicing with a baitcaster. You bring up valid points- but to repeat what a previous poster gleaned from my posts- why use 20 pound test and a heavy lure, to catch an 8 pound fish ? And the added headaches of a baitcaster added to it. It seems that same lure could be presented with a stout open faced reel and rod, and horsed in just as easily. They use open faced reels for deep sea fishing too- so obviously the new ones have the gusto to horse a big fish in as well. Correct ? Keep in mind professional bass fishermen get a lot of sponsor money. I've yet to try to make a cast that I could not make with a spinning reel. Where's the accuracy problem ? I've fished streams where the target area is 2 feet square- and anywhere else is a snag and lost hook/bait. If that's not an accuracy challenge, what is ? I agree that for pulling a lure through lilly pads and stumps, a baitcaster has the leverage advantage. But what average guy would fish that area, every time ? Sooner or later, one tires of the obstacles and snags. You may not break the line, but you may have to go up and unsnag it often. If there was a place where all of the fish caught were over 10 pounds, sure I'd use a bait caster. But the baitcaster aura is reminding me of a street car with a 6-71 supercharger sticking through the hood, that can't get out of it's own way. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
WARREN WOLK wrote: He sounds like a shiner guy to me, and he needs a new yardstick too. Hundreds of feet, lmao... Warren "Todd Copeland" wrote in message k.net... "duty-honor-country" wrote in message ups.com... Carlos wrote: Accuracy and the ability to control the entry of a bait into the water. Sometime watch, really watch guys on tv casting. Or even better, go to a wintertime fishing show where a big name angler is tossing a jig into a cup 50-80 feet away and never missing. Doing it while not making a lot of noise. Just laying it in there. Baitcasters are far more useful, and accurate than you give them credit for. They take practice. Anything worthwhile does. I've been fishing for 37 years now, and to say a baitcaster is more accurate, is very misleading- and downright incorrect. I can put 6 pound test on an open face and cast 200 feet with ease. And I can put 10 pound test on it and haul in huge bass. And I've fished small streams and creeks with open faced spinning reels, that require far more precision than any baitcaster can give- and would leave a baitcasting reel in a birdsnest tangle. Caros mentioned that baitcasters were more _accurate", not that they could throw a lure further as you keep mentioning. Spinning reels _are_ good for distance and for using light lures. But baitcaster win hands down for accuracy. There are very few times (really none) that anyone should want to throw a lure 100-200 feet (by the way, the over-hand throw on a 200 foot cast has _got_ to be scary!) You mentioned backlashes on a baitcaster and that you've been fishing for 37 years. If you're getting backlashes then you've not fished long enough with a baitcast to appreciate how well it does. I've been fishing, steady, for about 10 years and use baitcasters 80% of the time. Out of the past thousands of casts I'd say I've only had backlash once... and it only took 5 seconds to clear. The only way to control the line on a spinning reel is to apply slight pressure against the line with your finger once each time the line wraps around the spool. As you mentioned, on a baitcaster you just need to drag your thumb across the spool as the line is going out. From your posts it really seems like you are no open to accept the fact that baitcasters _are_ more accurate then spinning reels. If they were not, why do all professional bass fisherman use them 80%-90% of the time? I guess they _all_ could be wrong about the subject. Something you don't mention is what _kind_ of bass fishing you do. If you just need to throw a shiner out into the middle of the lake, then a spinning reel would work best for your needs. But if you want to throw that plastic worm or spinning lure right into that 6"x6" hole of lily pads four or five times, then you might want to consider practicing with a baitcaster. Who are you trying to kid ? Now all of a sudden, a spinning rod can't cast 200 feet ? Wake up and smell the coffee. Put a full spool light line on a good long spinning rod, with a heavy bottom weight- and try it one time. 200 feet casts no problem. Want to go that far heavier line, you say ?? just add weight and keep the spool topped off. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message ups.com... question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes with ANY bait casting reel, and the fact your thumb must ride the spool at all times to (try to) prevent it- why would anyone bother even using a bait casting reel for fresh water fishing ? I can see the cranking advantage to a bait caster, for hauling in huge fish, and dragging lures through weeds, etc.. But in my actual experience, the bait casters can't cast as far, and not as accurately, as a cheap open face spinning reel or even a spincasting reel. Short answer: They do work, if you learn how to use them. Open-faced spinning real more accurate than baitcasters? Not in the hands of an experinced baitcaster user. I bet you don't sit a 5 gallon pale out in the yard and practice casting to it at all, with any reel, do you? If not, you are not the target market for baitcasters. Your methods are too casual, you don't want to practice you just want to fish. Be that the case, then sure, stick with spinning reels and closed spinning reels like the Zebco 33. I live and die by the baitcaster, they outnumber the spinning reels on my boat 6-2. And I keep those 2 spinning reels on there for 2-3 purposes: Certain extra-light weight baits that I use, very windy conditions, and for times when non-experienced anglers are going to be on-board and in need of fishing rods. And your technique needs some help. You aren't required to keep your thumb on the spool all the time. You won't get any distance with that much friction on the spool. The key to casting a baitcaster, consistently and without hassle IMO, is your casting technique. That's what ultimately sets and controls the bait's speed, which is what is the root of most overruns. Too much bait speed at the get-go. Think of it in gun-like terms, you don't necessarily want a really high muzzle velocity, but you do want a nice consistent down-range velocity after the launch. A lot of this comes from the casting wrist & arm, not the casting thumb. When I go fishing, I want to fish, not untangle the reel ever 4th cast. Again, it takes practice. You get a backlash every 4 casts, I get one every 4-5 trips, usually when I tried to skip a bait under a distant dock and hit the dock by mistake. Of course, I have fished baitcasters since I was 8-9 years old (and am currently pushing 40), and I tune mine up each season, and spend hours in the yard casting to small pales, at different distances, and don't stop "tuning" my reels until I can use the bait I want, and hit the pales dead center, 9 out of every 10 casts, using whatever cast I want to practice: overhead, sidearm (fore and backhand), flipping and pitching. Are the 5-ball bearing bait casters so much better they don't tangle, over a single-ball bearing bait caster ? Common sense tells me no. Experience tells me yes. You have to tune a baitcaster to your casting habits (do you wrist or arm cast? what are your magnet settings, reel/spool tension, line type and weight?), and extra bearings in a baitcaster make it more smooth, easier to tune, and way easier to cast accurately once you have it tuned to your tendencies, bait choices, and weather conditions. These bait casters seem at best something to use, to toss bait a few feet from the boat, then troll in the ocean or large lakes for huge fish- NOT for casting with precision and distance. I can cast hundreds of feet with my spinning reel- and hardly 100 feet with a bait caster with a lug nut attached for weight. This tells me that you haven't given a baitcaster a fair chance. I personally, don't tune my baitcasters with lug nuts. And IMO, not many freshwater sized baitcasters are even setup for the 2-4 ounces that a typical lug nut surely weighs. Penn Senator salt water baitcasters? Maybe. I have fished 32 oz Mojos off those for striped bass.... I'm getting the notion the reel industry is doing a lot of bs-ing to sell bait casters. No, they market harder to use and control reels to fisherman that want the most accuracy that they can achieve with them with a little practice. Do you golf at all? How well do you golf without practicing with your current clubs? Fishing is the same way when it comes to equipment above the entry level stuff. Based on your post, I'd say if you DO golf, that you do it with off-the-shelf equipment, that wasn't "fitted" to you and you wonder why you can't get rid of that slice, right? Go get your clubs bent to fit your height and stance and arm length and I promise you'll shave 5 strokes off your next round.....Put in some practice with a baitcaster - and get it tuned to your style - and you'll wonder how you ever lived without them. skeptic bordering on cynic... |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater?
duty-honor-country wrote:
question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes with ANY bait casting reel, You are blaming your own shortcomings on the hardware. Sad. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
DHC wrote-- FWIW, I could buy the best rod and reel made on the planet today- and it would be like pocket change to me. But I have a funny feeling it would give only slightly better results. These baitcasters obviously need very heavy lures and line to make them cast with minimal hassle. I just don't see the advantage in a lake where the biggest fish is a 6 or 8 pound bass. My spinning reel will take that no problem. .. Hookesets are better IMO, accuracy and distance all improve when I'm using a baitcaster. I also think I can work baits better with a baitcaster. I can put baits in places that I'm unable to do with a spinning set up, and backlash's are limited when you learn to use the tools properly. JMO |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
RichZ wrote: duty-honor-country wrote: question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes with ANY bait casting reel, You are blaming your own shortcomings on the hardware. Sad. I tried to learn to use a baitcaster but spent too much time unraveling the rats nest tangles in the reel. I use a spinning reel on a medium action rod for virtually everything I fish for. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
Alwaysfishking wrote: DHC wrote-- FWIW, I could buy the best rod and reel made on the planet today- and it would be like pocket change to me. But I have a funny feeling it would give only slightly better results. These baitcasters obviously need very heavy lures and line to make them cast with minimal hassle. I just don't see the advantage in a lake where the biggest fish is a 6 or 8 pound bass. My spinning reel will take that no problem. . Hookesets are better IMO, accuracy and distance all improve when I'm using a baitcaster. I also think I can work baits better with a baitcaster. I can put baits in places that I'm unable to do with a spinning set up, and backlash's are limited when you learn to use the tools properly. JMO thanks for the honest, non-flame answer. We just came back today from another hour and a half fishing nearby, using the baitcasting reel. I did notice that hits are easier to detect for some reason with it. I now have 15 lb. test on it and caught 8 panfish just now, using nightwalkers and a bottom weight. There's a few large catfish there that we can see, but could not hook one. Released all the fish- the casting is getting better and further. For comparison I brought along my spinning rig with a wooden plug- still able to cast much further with the spinning reel and more accurately. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
RichZ wrote: duty-honor-country wrote: question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes with ANY bait casting reel, You are blaming your own shortcomings on the hardware. Sad. you are blaming another person for your hardware preferences- that's what's even sadder. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
On 7 Aug 2006 14:22:26 -0700, "duty-honor-country"
wrote: Who are you trying to kid ? Now all of a sudden, a spinning rod can't cast 200 feet ? Wake up and smell the coffee. Put a full spool light line on a good long spinning rod, with a heavy bottom weight- and try it one time. 200 feet casts no problem. Want to go that far heavier line, you say ?? just add weight and keep the spool topped off. Lets battle! I'll grab my Scorpion spooled w/ 20lb PowerPro, you get your contraption and I'll trip trap to whatever bridge you live under and we can go at it with nice simple 5" Senkos for distance. Accuracy count yes or no? .. Harry J aka Thundercat Share the knowledge, compete on execution... http://www.brooklynbillstackleshop.com http://secretweaponlures.com |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater?
duty-honor-country wrote:
RichZ wrote: duty-honor-country wrote: question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes with ANY bait casting reel, You are blaming your own shortcomings on the hardware. Sad. you are blaming another person for your hardware preferences- that's what's even sadder. ??? I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I didn't comment on your preference for spinning tackle, just your insistence that backlashes and tangles are unavoidable and 'incessant' with casting tackle -- a position that just isn't accurate. You seem to think it is, which reflects only on your your abilities with the tackle, not on the design of the tackle itself. There is no denying that casting tackle requires a more skilled and practiced hand to cast. The lighter the weight being cast, the broader the gap in how much skill is needed to do it with casting tackle rather than spinning gear. You apparently haven't developed that skill, and are blaming the tackle. Then again, you might be trying to learn with a piece of junk, and it really IS the tackle. I prefer spinning tackle for any application in which I use 6 lb test or lower. Since drop shotting is among my favorite techniques, and I pretty much wrote the book (or at least the article in In-Fisherman magazine years ago) on light tackle jig & worm fishing, most days I use spinning gear as much as, or more than casting tackle. But as soon as I go heavier than that, casting gear gets the nod. It's more comfortable, and in sizes suitable for handling heavy line, much lighter. Also, in pure mechanical engineering terms, a casting reel is a more elegant and efficient machine for retrieving the line. Spinning gear takes the line around an awkward right angle turn on the retrieve, and that turn puts pressure at a right angle to the bearing on which the rotor rotates, trying to cock the rotor whenever it is pulling weight around that awful corner. Further, the spinning reel asks you to set into motion a large rotor and bail, instead of a comparatively small spool to wind the line. The rotor/roller/bail assembly is an out of balance, rotating mass -- something they taught us to avoid when I studied mechanical design. If it wasn't such a good design for a reel's other function (paying out line) it would be tough to even justify the existence of a spinning reel. But because it does such a good job with that half of its responsibilities -- particularly when light line and light weights are involved -- I find it to be worth putting up with its poor design for the other half of its job, but only in specific circumstances. I really don't care what kind of tackle you or anyone else prefers. I know lots of anglers who don't have the ambition, dexterity or resolve to learn to use a bait casting reel with any amount of confidence and grace. I happily share my boat with several 'spinning gear only' anglers. I'd much rather they concentrate on the important parts of fishing -- finding fish and forcing them or tricking them into biting something artificial -- than on trying to master tackle that they're uncomfortable with for no reason other than that's what some pro uses. As long as they're not doing something dumb like trying to fish in heavy cover with 6 or 8 pound test because that's all that really fishes well on their light spinning gear, more power to them. And to you. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
Thundercat wrote: On 7 Aug 2006 14:22:26 -0700, "duty-honor-country" wrote: Who are you trying to kid ? Now all of a sudden, a spinning rod can't cast 200 feet ? Wake up and smell the coffee. Put a full spool light line on a good long spinning rod, with a heavy bottom weight- and try it one time. 200 feet casts no problem. Want to go that far heavier line, you say ?? just add weight and keep the spool topped off. Lets battle! I'll grab my Scorpion spooled w/ 20lb PowerPro, you get your contraption and I'll trip trap to whatever bridge you live under and we can go at it with nice simple 5" Senkos for distance. Accuracy count yes or no? . Harry J aka Thundercat Share the knowledge, compete on execution... http://www.brooklynbillstackleshop.com http://secretweaponlures.com I'll put 2 pound test on my Shimano spinning reel, with an ounce weight- and you'll be waiting for minutes for it to land- and using binoculars to see where it landed. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
RichZ wrote: duty-honor-country wrote: RichZ wrote: duty-honor-country wrote: question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes with ANY bait casting reel, You are blaming your own shortcomings on the hardware. Sad. you are blaming another person for your hardware preferences- that's what's even sadder. ??? I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I didn't comment on your preference for spinning tackle, just your insistence that backlashes and tangles are unavoidable and 'incessant' with casting tackle -- a position that just isn't accurate. You seem to think it is, which reflects only on your your abilities with the tackle, not on the design of the tackle itself. There is no denying that casting tackle requires a more skilled and practiced hand to cast. The lighter the weight being cast, the broader the gap in how much skill is needed to do it with casting tackle rather than spinning gear. You apparently haven't developed that skill, and are blaming the tackle. Then again, you might be trying to learn with a piece of junk, and it really IS the tackle. I prefer spinning tackle for any application in which I use 6 lb test or lower. Since drop shotting is among my favorite techniques, and I pretty much wrote the book (or at least the article in In-Fisherman magazine years ago) on light tackle jig & worm fishing, most days I use spinning gear as much as, or more than casting tackle. But as soon as I go heavier than that, casting gear gets the nod. It's more comfortable, and in sizes suitable for handling heavy line, much lighter. Also, in pure mechanical engineering terms, a casting reel is a more elegant and efficient machine for retrieving the line. Spinning gear takes the line around an awkward right angle turn on the retrieve, and that turn puts pressure at a right angle to the bearing on which the rotor rotates, trying to cock the rotor whenever it is pulling weight around that awful corner. Further, the spinning reel asks you to set into motion a large rotor and bail, instead of a comparatively small spool to wind the line. The rotor/roller/bail assembly is an out of balance, rotating mass -- something they taught us to avoid when I studied mechanical design. If it wasn't such a good design for a reel's other function (paying out line) it would be tough to even justify the existence of a spinning reel. But because it does such a good job with that half of its responsibilities -- particularly when light line and light weights are involved -- I find it to be worth putting up with its poor design for the other half of its job, but only in specific circumstances. I really don't care what kind of tackle you or anyone else prefers. I know lots of anglers who don't have the ambition, dexterity or resolve to learn to use a bait casting reel with any amount of confidence and grace. I happily share my boat with several 'spinning gear only' anglers. I'd much rather they concentrate on the important parts of fishing -- finding fish and forcing them or tricking them into biting something artificial -- than on trying to master tackle that they're uncomfortable with for no reason other than that's what some pro uses. As long as they're not doing something dumb like trying to fish in heavy cover with 6 or 8 pound test because that's all that really fishes well on their light spinning gear, more power to them. And to you. whoa- are you saying you can use 8 and 10 pound line on a baitcasting reel ? I disagree- not very reliably !! Set the hook hard with 8 pound test on a baitcaster, and it's going to bury the line into the spool ! Those baitcasting rigs don't even get near reliable unless used with 14-15 pound test. Those bass pros aren't using 8 pound test on baitcasters, that's for sure- it would be a recipe for disaster. yes, a casting reel is more elegant- for cranking the line in- but not for casting- and only good IF you use thick line ! that inherently means shorter casts- because heavier line going out, has more resistance in the rod eyes. bass pros use 14-17 lb. test line- but the bass they are catching are always somewhat smaller than that in weight. So what we have is, chunking up line size used to drag through weeds and obstacles, and keep the reel from backlashing on casts- not to drag in 15 lb. fish. again- if you used the same rod, weight, and line- only difference being the reel type, spinning vs. baitcasting- the spinning reel is inherently going to cast further. It doesn't have a spool that's turning, creating friction, to cast out. And it doesn't have a thumb on it either, slowing it down, to prevent a backlash. otherwise, try casting with no thumb control with a baitcaster. BANG- backlash city. The fisherman HAS TO slow the spool down with his thumb, or it backlashes- that in itself shortens the cast. It's either slow it down with your thumb, or tighten up the spool clutch tension. I've found a tighter clutch tension allows me to keep my thumb off the spool until the end of the cast. Loosening it up to get distance, it quickly over-runs without constant thumb braking. I'd rather let the reel clutch do the braking, and my thumb just end the cast and drop the bait in the water. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
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why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message SNIP You bring up valid points- but to repeat what a previous poster gleaned from my posts- why use 20 pound test and a heavy lure, to catch an 8 pound fish ? And the added headaches of a baitcaster added to it. It seems that same lure could be presented with a stout open faced reel and rod, and horsed in just as easily. ***Why use 20 pound and a heavy lure to catch an 8 pound fish? Because that is many times the right tools for the job. If you were taught how to properly set up and use a baitcast rig, there would be no added headache. A baitcast reel can handle heavier line much better than a spinning reel, and typically, a spinning rod does not have the necessary backbone to adequately horse a fish from heavy cover. Sure, it can be done, but I can do the same with a baitcaster with a rig that is much lighter and easier to fish with all day. Saying you can do the same with a spinning rod is like saying that you can pound a nail with a screwdriver. Yep, you probably can, but it's not the right tool for the job. Matching line weight to fish is fine for open water fishing, but there are many other factors that must be considered when choosing tackle. Fishing many of the areas I do with eight pound line will only result in borken line, lost lures and lost fish. They use open faced reels for deep sea fishing too- so obviously the new ones have the gusto to horse a big fish in as well. Correct ? ***Yes, they do use spinning rods for deep-sea fishing, but look at the weight of a spinning rod/reel combination rated for 20 pound line, then compare a baitcast combo rated for the same. I'd rather hold and cast the baitcaster all day than the spinning rod/reel. Keep in mind professional bass fishermen get a lot of sponsor money. ***And those professional bass fishermen get paid to WIN tournaments. If spinning tackle were the "End-All to End All", those selfsame professional bass fishermen would be using spinning tackle. But, they don't, so obviously there is a reason why baitcasting tackle is used. You could use a Yugo to race the 24 Hours at LeMans, but you wouldn't be competitive. I've yet to try to make a cast that I could not make with a spinning reel. Where's the accuracy problem ? I've fished streams where the target area is 2 feet square- and anywhere else is a snag and lost hook/bait. If that's not an accuracy challenge, what is ? ***Then you obviously haven't fished with me. Two feet square? C'mon, that's easy. Now, pitch a lure underneath overhanging tree branches into a 10 inch hole in the weeds, two feet underneath the overhang. THAT'S an accuracy challenge. I agree that for pulling a lure through lilly pads and stumps, a baitcaster has the leverage advantage. But what average guy would fish that area, every time ? Sooner or later, one tires of the obstacles and snags. You may not break the line, but you may have to go up and unsnag it often. ***THAT'S exactly why baitcasting tackle is used, leverage and mechanical advantage. I consider myself an average guy and I fish obstacles and snags quite often. I prefer to actually CATCH fish and that means I have to go where they live. If you're fishing bass, pike, and muskie, they are a very object oriented fish. That means heavier tackle, heavier lures. I don't tire of fishing in heavy cover and I don't have to "go up and unsnag if often" as I use the proper tools for the job, baitcasting equipment. If there was a place where all of the fish caught were over 10 pounds, sure I'd use a bait caster. But the baitcaster aura is reminding me of a street car with a 6-71 supercharger sticking through the hood, that can't get out of it's own way. ***Obviously you don't understand the concept of using the correct equipment for the task at hand and refuse to do so. -- Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods http://www.herefishyfishy.com |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message ups.com... question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes with ANY bait casting reel, and the fact your thumb must ride the spool at all times to (try to) prevent it- why would anyone bother even using a bait casting reel for fresh water fishing ? I can see the cranking advantage to a bait caster, for hauling in huge fish, and dragging lures through weeds, etc.. But in my actual experience, the bait casters can't cast as far, and not as accurately, as a cheap open face spinning reel or even a spincasting reel. Being able to thumb the reel GIVES you control, it doesn't take it away. Think about it. You fling a spincasting reel, and you're done. There's nothing you can do about it. Anyway, once you get over how to keep control of the reel, it's kind of like using a manual car instead of an automatic one. And there's a feeling of being in "direct drive" rather than going through an inefficient system - the line is "directly" attached to the reel, not going through some system of pulleys and gears to get there (exaggerating slightly :-) I'm getting the notion the reel industry is doing a lot of bs-ing to sell bait casters. Don't be ridiculous. For what possible reason? |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message ups.com... I've been fishing for 37 years now, and to say a baitcaster is more accurate, is very misleading- and downright incorrect. Wrong. You've been fishing a long time, which is not the same thing as saying you're experienced, or good, yet. And I've fished small streams and creeks with open faced spinning reels, that require far more precision than any baitcaster can give- No, they don't offer more precision. You just aren't good at it. But spinning gear does offer an advantage over casting gear with very light weight lures, and that's why you use spinning gear with very light lures. and would leave a baitcasting reel in a birdsnest tangle. For those who can't cast, yes. The only useful purpose I can see for a baitcaster, is fishing from a boat on large lakes and ocean, where the bait it tossed a few feet from the boat, and then trolled- and the fish are huge over 15 pounds. Ha ha ha ha ha. Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. Virtually all of them do. They don't cast bait for crap ! YOU don't cast bait for crap. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message oups.com... You'll never have a backlash problem with a spinning reel. You may pull a few tangles out on a newly filled reel, but that will be it. You will have much more tangles with a baitcaster than a spinning rod. No, YOU will. I've seen people have horrendous problems with spinning reels. And all of a sudden, the "farther" argument for casting with baitcasters has disappeared. No, just for light lures, as I said. The way the line comes off a spinning reel means less friction, which is good for very light lures. When the lures get heavier, it really doesn't matter because a bait caster can't cast as far as he needs to, so it's moot. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message ups.com... WARREN WOLK wrote: Amazing you had time to haul in 12 fish, considering all the backlashes & tangles you picked out. I fished for 9 hours over those 2 days. Spent 6 hours in the boat yesterday. Not only did I untangle the reel a zillion times- I'm now on my 3rd respool of line. Like I said, you're just not good at it. Happens with all sorts of skills with all sorts of people. |
why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message oups.com... If you think about it, it's actually common sense. A baitcaster reel has more internal friction than a spinning reel. Why don't you use your head man? There's a reason all the pros use casting reels, and it ain't because the manufacturers are twisting their arms. They could whatever kind of reel was the most popular. Figure out the reason instead of stating all the time what you "know" about casting reels and how to fish them. |
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